Venting. I just don't know who my exBPDgf is anymore

[Curiously1]

Just an update of my story (if you want the full story just go through my old posts)

My ex and I reconnected after seeing her on a dating site and messaging a hello and goodluck to her.

She missed me too so we readded each other and I tried 'friendship' for about a week. I realised it just wasn't for me but seeing her was good because staying NC all I could think of was her 'good qualities'. Seeing her was a reminder of why we didn't work out.

I found she was too insensitive and not truly capable of being a good friend. It was all about her as usual.

She would tell me about how her dates were going and the reality is we just broke up almost 2 months ago and she didn't have to always bring that up. She spoke to me as if i wouldn't get hurt or didnt care if I would get hurt.  It blows my mind how she can just move on so quickly but that is the way she rolls.

I should have stayed NC but I still had that hope left and needed to find out myself if she would change her mind and want to fix things between us if I continued more "positive interactions" with her based on what I;ve read but been hurting myself emotionally really, by just being around her negativity and knowing she's ready to move onto someone else and to keep on dating.

Currently her dating hasnt been going very well for her and she would complain about how she missed the stability of a relationship and felt so disposable now. Instead of making things up with me I started to get that she wouldnt recycle and just needed me there to validate her and tell her she was worth it and to keep positive etc.

She broke it off with the replacement but they are still fwb. The replacement wants more but feels "lucky enough" to be my exes friend. One interesting piece of information my replacement gave me though was that while my ex was dating her she told her that she couldn't guarantee if or when she'd like her back because she hasn't moved on from me. Its another reason why I returned to see if my ex would recycle me and try her best to work on us.

We don't know if she feels love for me now though, but during their time together that is how my ex felt. It feels good to know that my ex did really love me based on how she treats me and me convinced she didn't love me anymore.

The replacement was dumped 4 days after she was raped by someone in the streets apparently. Their relationship only lasted 2 weeks max. The replacement was shocked by my ex leaving her because she was too depressing to be with and couldn't handle her and the replacement blames herself when really she shouldn't be questioning why my ex 'got angry' at her and didn't show much empathy for her bad experience.

The replacement already told me she knows she is being used for sex and could not forgive my ex for leaving her like that when got raped but if my ex offered her a relationship she would still take it up again. The replacement said so herself to take her side with a grain of salt because she still digs my ex and even though she felt used just because she is trans and feeling like a fetish. She knows she will be discarded sooner or later when my ex gets bored of her and I find it strange she is ok with that.

Perhaps this girl is used to being second best and has issues of her own for being okay with this. I suspect the replacement has stockholm syndrome  or is just an awful person herself and I'll get to why I think she is awful too in a second.

Anyway after a good week with hanging out with my ex, I just disappeared and didn't bother telling her why. I realised even though I cared about her I was enabling bad behaviour so it was best to move on. I was pretty much devalued each time and she didnt care about my feelings. I felt there was nothing left for me to benefit of this friendship and simply not worth it. We didn't argue, I tried to keep positive interactions but I found that it didn't make better for me, just more tolerable as she continued to try criticise me at every opportunity to. I left her feeling like things were good between us as she had a fun time then just disappeared from her life.

I blocked and deleted my exes fb. A few days ago I received an out of the blue fb inbox from the replacement harrassing me, telling me that my ex wants her right at that moment and implying they are going to be having a good time together sexually. I found it really childish and I felt furious.

If they were so happy, either of them, they shouldn't have to tell me, or purposefully want to hurt me while I am trying to move on. I thought the replacement would be happy that I have left picture at least she can have my ex all to herself. She even apologised to me for getting inbetween my ex a week before so I thought we could be civil until she goes ahead and attacks me again by sending me that hurtful message.

My friends and I suspect the replacement is jealous of me moving on and that my ex is perhaps talking too much about me while they are hanging out and she isn't happy about that or my ex coerced her to write such a thing to me because I blocked her and that she just has to hurt me in anyway she knows she can.

I accidentally thumbs upped the message on my touch phone thought but perhaps that was the perfect response. Sort of showed I didn't care what they were doing.

Later that same day I met a couple of girls who are also roommates from the dating site. I needed to go out and just keep my mind off their drama. My ex and the replacement uses the same site unfortunately so were bound to meet the same people. Strangely the replacement tried reaching out a few hours later to me on the dating site too and just said "hi (my name)" and that's about it. But I didn't respond to that. Her behaviour is odd too.

I later find out that night that one of the girls had been raped by my ex as she disclosed to me the screen name of her rapist.

I know my ex is a horrible person and there is a high chance what what the lady said is true. I could see it in her face that what she experiences was something bad. I was shocked and I think she was telling the truth. My ex never did that to me but I can see how my exes non existent boundaries and lack of empathy for others, and hate for men (not that she sees transwomen as men) could make it easier for her to do such an evil thing.

So I find out my ex is a liar, cheater, abuser, and a rapist at least to transwomen.

All I can say now is that I can undertand why she felt crap about herself and whenever she told me she isn't good enough, I know the reasons why its hard for her to see herself in a good light. I know why she couldn't always believe I loved her or that she felt she was deserving of me.

I don't know who she is anymore. Must have loved the her during the idealisation phase. The false self, the fake her, the her that mirrored me and my good qualities to forget about herself and the ugliness and horrible things she has done and doesn't want to look at or reflect upon. She liked me because she saw me as 'innocent' and 'pure' and supposedly thought she could start afresh but in the end I made her feel more crap in comparison.

She truly is a despicable, awful human being and I didn't realise that until the break up happened.

I didn't realise the amount of hurt and damage she caused others before meeting me, during and after.

It makes me think that if we were still together how hard it would have been for me to see who my ex really is, believe people and why certain people didn't like my ex. Love can blind you like that and take your loved ones side.

I am sad but relieved at the same time I'm doing NC. It's good to know the truth but it hurts a lot to know my ex is a bad person  and that innocence that I saw in her was really her mirroring me and enjoying that mirror more than dealing with her own self.

[drummerboy5]

You feel like you don't know your ex anymore? The truth is you never knew her while dating her. The person you see now (your exBPD and her behaviors)  different guys every few weeks or few months is the real woman that you dated.

[khibomsis]

Curiously, I am sorry you are going through this. Finding out that your ex is not who you thought she was is a second loss, equally great if not worse than losing her the first time. For me a break up is  easier if I can think well of the ex, some are good friends to this day. Having to lose the illusions as well as the dyke is always painful.

As you work through this loss you will begin to understand that it could be much worse. You could still be with her. BPD or not, the whole thing just seems to be messy to me, she was playing you and replacement off against each other while simultaneously trying to date new people. You deserve a woman who only has eyes for you. She will come one day.

In the meantime, ask yourself what drew you in in the first place? BPD's are just people. They are not the problem. The problem is us who  feed them, support them, put up with their abuse and provide their narcissistic supply. If we did not enable they would have to change.  Anyway, the sooner you figure out why she hooked you in, the safer you will be from others like her. We tend to date the same person over and over again until we sort out our own inner dramas. 

People on this board warn that online dating sites tend to be magnets for personality disordered people. I have never tried one myself. But don't believe everything you hear and be careful out there! ,khib

[5tarla]

BPD's are just people. They are not the problem. The problem is us who  feed them, support them, put up with their abuse and provide their narcissistic supply. If we did not enable they would have to change. 

I wholeheartedly disagree with placing the blame on anyone that is a victim of emotional abuse. Abuse is abuse, and I've had for the most part healthy relationships leading up to my relationship with my ex. We would not call a a domestic abuse survivor the problem for attracting their physically abusive ex, so when we find out someone has been an emotionally abused were quick to dismiss the perpetrator of most of the responsibility. Our responsibility lies in getting out of the fog, not for being lead into it under the guise of love. We are not responsibility for how a BPD person acts, and they are a major part of the problem. A lot of them are toxic. Our responsibility lies in setting boundaries and leaving once the first one gets knocked down.

[drummerboy5]

BPD's are just people. They are not the problem. The problem is us who  feed them, support them, put up with their abuse and provide their narcissistic supply. If we did not enable they would have to change. 

I wholeheartedly disagree with placing the blame on anyone that is a victim of emotional abuse. Abuse is abuse, and I've had for the most part healthy relationships leading up to my relationship with my ex. We would not call a a domestic abuse survivor the problem for attracting their physically abusive ex, so when we find out someone has been an emotionally abused were quick to dismiss the perpetrator of most of the responsibility. Our responsibility lies in getting out of the fog, not for being lead into it under the guise of love. We are not responsibility for how a BPD person acts, and they are a major part of the problem. A lot of them are toxic. Our responsibility lies in setting boundaries and leaving once the first one gets knocked down.

Agreed!

[once removed]

i dont know anyone here who hasnt been physically or emotionally abused, and i dont know anyone here who excuses or condones that abuse.

once we get out of the fog, and we do, what have we learned? what can we take with us that will lend us to healthier relationships?

[khibomsis]

I think there is a fine line between blaming the victim and stating that the victim is responsible for freeing her/him/themselves. It would be farfetched, for instance, to say that children could be blamed for incest. It is reality check to say that unless the child takes courage and speaks out to a responsible adult the abuse is likely to continue.   

I worked in gender-based violence for 15 years, five of them volounteering as well on the board of women's shelter. 50 % of the residents went back to abusive relationships. It made life challenging as a shelter since we had to raise twice as much money as we needed every year. This in the face of a six-month long waiting list. Women would literally die while waiting for a place in the shelter.

The only reliable difference I could discern between those who got out and those who stayed was the ability to take responsibility for their lives. This is not about whose 'fault' it is. It is about who has the ability to change the situation for the better.

So having had a chance to calm down, Starla, any ideas about why you reacted so strongly? What issues does this raise for you? With Curiously's permission since we are hijacking her thread?  , khib

[WoundedBibi]

BPD's are just people. They are not the problem. The problem is us who  feed them, support them, put up with their abuse and provide their narcissistic supply. If we did not enable they would have to change. 

I know where the problem is for me in above quote khimbomsis. It's twofold.

1) if BPD's are not a problem then why should they have to change? Your reasoning does not seem logical

2) I did stop enabling my ex pretty quickly. The relationship got worse pretty quick too. I decide to walk away. He did not have to change at all as he had his flying monkeys or minions around him to enable him. At some point they will leave him or he will leave them, or he will leave for another country as he often does, and rebuild his life. With new enablers. He does not have to change at all. As goes for many pwBPD. They just move to a new circle of enablers.

So what do you propose to do to prevent people to become the new circle of enablers until these people become aware there is something wrong, and the pwBPD moves on to the newest circle of enablers? Because according to your reasoning 'we enablers' are the problem. So we must be stopped from being the problem.

What would you do to make all of 'us' 7.4 billion people minus pwBPD stop being the problem?

Put as I jokingly said last week (I think it was with member londons) all the pwBPD together on Pitcairn so they are protected from us enablers and are forced to change (how?)?

Educate the entire world population about BPD, have everybody take mandatory BPD tests and make all who are diagnosed with BPD wear purple circles on their clothes or pointy hats so they are recognizable and we enablers can run away when they get close to prevent us from enabling?

'Just stop enabling and they will have to change' is way too simply put. Stop enabling and they get angry and move to the next enabler.

[5tarla]

I think there is a fine line between blaming the victim and stating that the victim is responsible for freeing her/him/themselves. It would be farfetched, for instance, to say that children could be blamed for incest. It is reality check to say that unless the child takes courage and speaks out to a responsible adult the abuse is likely to continue.   

I worked in gender-based violence for 15 years, five of them volounteering as well on the board of women's shelter. 50 % of the residents went back to abusive relationships. It made life challenging as a shelter since we had to raise twice as much money as we needed every year. This in the face of a six-month long waiting list. Women would literally die while waiting for a place in the shelter.

The only reliable difference I could discern between those who got out and those who stayed was the ability to take responsibility for their lives. This is not about whose 'fault' it is. It is about who has the ability to change the situation for the better.

So having had a chance to calm down, Starla, any ideas about why you reacted so strongly? What issues does this raise for you? With Curiously's permission since we are hijacking her thread?  , khib

I was calm when I wrote that post. If stating my opinion is reacting strongly , then so be it. I'm not the only that found that portion of the quote problematic, so. I think I stated already what my issue with that section of what you wrote. Absolving the pwBPD of their behavior and placing the blame on the 'enablers'. People with BPD have PDs and they won't just change from not being enabled. They are who they are, and only with extensive therapy can their even be a hope for change.

[Curiously1]

Curiously, I am sorry you are going through this. Finding out that your ex is not who you thought she was is a second loss, equally great if not worse than losing her the first time.

In the meantime, ask yourself what drew you in in the first place? BPD's are just people. They are not the problem. The problem is us who  feed them, support them, put up with their abuse and provide their narcissistic supply. If we did not enable they would have to change.  Anyway, the sooner you figure out why she hooked you in, the safer you will be from others like her. We tend to date the same person over and over again until we sort out our own inner dramas. 

People on this board warn that online dating sites tend to be magnets for personality disordered people. I have never tried one myself. But don't believe everything you hear and be careful out there! ,khib

What drew me in was the way she showed me “unconditional love”. I didn’t believe it at first, and I should have kept to my gut feeling that something was odd because of the intensity of it all but I gave her chance and eventually I started to believe in that ‘unconditional love’ she first showed me. I questioned why she loved me from time to time since I started to see some cracks, rushing things, and like she wasn’t very realistic about particular ideas such as of what love was really about and simply just wasn’t able to resolve trivial conflicts. Felt like I was going crazy as communicating with her was too difficult and we couldn’t agree to disagree. It’s almost feels like a you’re under a contract that you are there to serve them and to make sure nothing bad happens to them because she’s too fragile etc. Picking up on what she is and isn’t capable of doing made me feel like I was responsible in taking care of her.

I felt fog and responsible for her and the way she reacted and her feelings based on what I did and said. I tolerated blame for everything because I was trying to understand her experiences through her shoes and picked up that I was the one carrying the whole weight of the relationship and was relied on. Blinded by my love for her I chose to accept that much responsibility. She  was 'safe' with me, I was the light at the end of the tunnel etc. She acts in a way that makes you want to rescuer her, and is probably what drew me in. I liked being a saviour in a way for sure. I was too wrapped up in her sad life story and promised not to abandon her. Caring people like us who like to problem-solve and help make our loved ones lives better the best way we think we can trap us at times. I loved her and was too optimistic things would get better in time.

Unfortunately I knew there were plenty of red flags at the beginning. I did not fall for her straight away.  Instead I just saw them as flaws that weren’t too bad at least at the beginning stages to accept and see how it goes. I should have trusted my gut instinct but with this experience learnt we are mostly just responsible for ourselves, you can’t really save anyone from their own problems and try not to get too wrapped up in someone else’s warped reality.  Also not to use push/pull back when I felt I was struggling with her understanding my side too... Being in a healthy and loving r/s shouldn't have to be feel like a struggle for power and control for any side.

[Curiously1]

BPD's are just people. They are not the problem. The problem is us who  feed them, support them, put up with their abuse and provide their narcissistic supply. If we did not enable they would have to change. 

I wholeheartedly disagree with placing the blame on anyone that is a victim of emotional abuse. Abuse is abuse, and I've had for the most part healthy relationships leading up to my relationship with my ex. We would not call a a domestic abuse survivor the problem for attracting their physically abusive ex, so when we find out someone has been an emotionally abused were quick to dismiss the perpetrator of most of the responsibility. Our responsibility lies in getting out of the fog, not for being lead into it under the guise of love. We are not responsibility for how a BPD person acts, and they are a major part of the problem. A lot of them are toxic. Our responsibility lies in setting boundaries and leaving once the first one gets knocked down.

5tarla

We are lead into it I think because they show us what we want to see and we still believe in their potential, or that things will get better when there’s a sudden shift or when things start going downhill. You're right that if this wasn't a dysfunctional person then it would have been so much easier and can't be entirely blamed for allowing ourselves to receive emotional abuse. I didn't think I was that difficult of a person to get along with as I was always trying to solve our issues and kept an open mind despite knowing she had issues and the way she deals.

I read that typically beyond the honeymoon phase, nons tend to use conflict and conflict-resolution as a means to build even deeper intimacy. We are able to take disagreements and use them to know the person further, use mutual trust and reciprocal disclosure to build further intimacy and move ahead. PDs obviously struggle with this and it's not our fault they struggle with this and blame, deflect and gaslight us as their way of trying to feel better about themselves.

It’s good to be optimistic, it’s why I think we strive in life and have received good results in other areas of our lives doing so. It's justhard sometimes to accept the reality that it doesn't work like that when dealing with someone other than yourself and that things are not necessarily ever going to get better if you stay. To stop seeing that as a failure in your part to solve things with someone you love. Radical acceptance and showing all the love you can possibly give won’t suddenly change them as much as we hope it can. It’s up to them to want to and really try to.

[JerryRG]

My exgf became so competitive about everything I did and said. Jealous of my accomplishments, ridiculed my thoughts, my beliefs and choices. Even asked if I were gay and this was after I got her pregnant. She was so cruel and mean, never appriciated anything I gave her, money, food, gifts, my home. Nothing was good enough.

She's a spoiled child, always demanding everything be perfect, if she didn't like food she would throw everything away and starve herself.

My god why didn't I throw her out! Oh yeah I did a few times but she's like a yoyo, kept coming back as the nicer changed person fooling me just one more time. Then back to slamming everything

[Curiously1]

BPD's are just people. They are not the problem. The problem is us who  feed them, support them, put up with their abuse and provide their narcissistic supply. If we did not enable they would have to change. 

I know where the problem is for me in above quote khimbomsis. It's twofold.

1) if BPD's are not a problem then why should they have to change? Your reasoning does not seem logical

2) I did stop enabling my ex pretty quickly. The relationship got worse pretty quick too. I decide to walk away. He did not have to change at all as he had his flying monkeys or minions around him to enable him. At some point they will leave him or he will leave them, or he will leave for another country as he often does, and rebuild his life. With new enablers. He does not have to change at all. As goes for many pwBPD. They just move to a new circle of enablers.

So what do you propose to do to prevent people to become the new circle of enablers until these people become aware there is something wrong, and the pwBPD moves on to the newest circle of enablers? Because according to your reasoning 'we enablers' are the problem. So we must be stopped from being the problem.

What would you do to make all of 'us' 7.4 billion people minus pwBPD stop being the problem?

Put as I jokingly said last week (I think it was with member londons) all the pwBPD together on Pitcairn so they are protected from us enablers and are forced to change (how?)?

Educate the entire world population about BPD, have everybody take mandatory BPD tests and make all who are diagnosed with BPD wear purple circles on their clothes or pointy hats so they are recognizable and we enablers can run away when they get close to prevent us from enabling?

'Just stop enabling and they will have to change' is way too simply put. Stop enabling and they get angry and move to the next enabler.

Yeah when will the enabling stop? All PDs do is go onto the next person who will enable them.

The replacement is enabling my ex since she is hoping to win her love. She knows she will be discarded by the time my ex finds someone new who likes her back and is accepting the scraps. It’s sad because the replacement is used to abuse, doesn’t have any friends, so will stick around because my ex is 'someone to talk to', and is hoping my ex won’t find anyone anytime soon. Sort of a ‘beggars can’t be choosers’ mentality she has. It's unfortunate that the replacement is a fool and chooses to want to hurt me too by rubbing it in my face. Truth is, she never got what she really wanted when she got inbetween us. My exes love. I wish she was stronger than that and left so my ex has to face herself.

There will always be enablers unfortunately. It’s why I think my ex will never get better. Especially if she keeps picking people who are more isolated or easier to control until she finds another 'perfect' one. it will be take some kind of crisis in her life under the right conditions for her to want to go get therapy. Even then, who is to stay how much she can improve knowing her.

[khibomsis]

Starla, WB and Jerry, please remember the context in which I said 'BPD are not the problem'. Curiously had just shared her story about a recycle attempt and the painful aftermath. I was trying to validate her suffering and also support her in putting an end to it. I don't know if you know the saying:" If you hurt me once, shame on you. If you hurt me twice, shame on me. Because you should never have gotten a second chance". That is honestly how I feel.Damage control is about figuring out why BPD's get a second chance. We are the ones who give them that choice.

I do not mean this in a judgemental way. I certainly am in no position to judge anybody. I recycled three times with my uBPD ex.  I almost died in the process.  But I did recycle in the sure and certain knowledge that I was choosing to do it. I did not blame her for it. I suspect that saved my sanity. One of the lessons on this site I credit with saving my life: "It's compelling to think that we are a victim. It absolves us of responsibility. However, while it may feel good to think this way, it isn’t the healthy response on our part.

The downside of casting ourselves as a victim is that this thinking tends to keep us repeating the same dysfunctional patterns. It reinforces the thought that we can’t do anything about the abuse because we are helpless. It masks the bad choices we made. It often hinders us from reaching for the tools to grow and to heal ourselves." https://bpdfamily.org/2010/08/being-victim.html

 

Thus my concern in relation to Curiously's story. If the phrasing came across as a master-plan to save the world from BPD domination, I can only apologize for the poor phrasing! My BPDF time is normally late at night after the family is asleep so not a time when I spend lots of energy on careful wording. Perhaps I should in future. It did not honestly occur to me that anybody would think I was condoning abuse.

Not that I have anything against a masterplan but am absolutely not making any claims to being able to answer your questions WB! Happy to discuss it on another thread if you start it, though. I mean, why not?

Curiously, it sounds like you have done a lot of processing! You have clarity on what was your part and what hooked you in. You are older and wiser and your experiences seem to have made you stronger. I am happy for you. Painful experiences can lead to change and growth if we let them.   , khib