Confusing Conversation

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hey all,

I'm not sure if it's okay for me to post a conversation I had over text with my ex wife pwBPD, but this confused the hell out of me today and really stirred up my sad feelings again. I'm really not sure what to make of it, as always, but it seems particularly all over the board. Sorry for the long read, just wondered if anyone had any thoughts--so tough to understand.

Her: I think you're going to change your mind about adopting [my SS7's name]

Me: What?

Her: I just think you will.

Me: I'm his dad.

Her: Okay.

Me: I spoke to a lawyer. She thinks a judge wouldn't allow adoption at the moment, but we can do written orders that I can be involved.

Her: Good. Should I get a lawyer? You're the one filing? Are you planing on doing some to me? Like suing for custody or anything mean-spirited?

Me: Nothing mean spirited. It was just a consult. I'll hire her in a month. I just want a clean break and to not have to deal with each other much.

Her: Did she mention whether it could be done sooner than a year? Me too.

Me: Not really. I'll ask when I get her.

Her: If I could not deal with you at all, that would be ideal, but you know, [SS7 name].

Me: Yeah agreed. Your mom has been great though.

Her: I'm sorry I met you.

Me: I'm sorry you feel that way.

Her: You feel the same way.

Me: I'm glad that I met [SS7 name]

Her: It wasn't a.l. bad. I'm glad he has you in his life.

Me: Yeah, true. We had some good times.

Her: You seem cold and uncaring lately. Like it didn't take you long to get over me. Like maybe you never did. Never did care, I mean.

Me: I absolutely did. You hurt me a lot. Plus you stopped loving me months ago.

Her: I wish I could take back all of 2016 and start over. I don't wish I never met you.

Me: Me too. Sorry it came to this.

Her: I'm sorry too. No chance at starting over? Not even for, [SS7 name]?

Me: I'm sorry, no. You really hurt me. I couldn't trust you again. Besides I do believe you stopped loving me.

Her: If I stopped loving you, why do I feel torn apart?

Me: Because things aren't working out with your other man? IDK. All I know is that you dropped me.

Her: I don't have another man. He's a friend. You dropped me too. Your love isn't strong enough to overcome anything.

Me: You lied and cheated. My love couldn't overcome that.

Her: You didn't love me enough to help me through my depression. You don't want me to be happy. You keep saying things aren't working out with me and whoever you think I'm seeing, because you don't want things to work out for me. You never see or acknowledge your role in what happened. I suppose I miss you as a friend. I'm in [place] at a anime convention and all I keep thinking when I see all the art is, oh [your name] would love this.

Her: I feel torn apart when I think of our family, because we are broken. But if I'm honest with myself, I am the happiest I have ever been right now. I just wish I could have had this happiness with you.

(hours later)

Her: I hope that you can be happy again soon. That's all I want right now. I think about it a lot, how you deserve happiness and how you are capable of bringing so much joy to someone that isn't me.

Me: Hearing from you makes me really sad. You keep reminding me of how much I failed and how quickly you moved on. Please, stop. It really hurts to hear from you. You don't need to think about me. Just because I'm not reaching out, doesn't mean I'm not paralyzed with sadness.

Her: Your only failure was choosing to be with someone as sh***y as me. I'm so sorry.  

[thrownforaloop]

Hey all,

I'm not sure if it's okay for me to post a conversation I had over text with my ex wife pwBPD, but this confused the hell out of me today and really stirred up my sad feelings again. I'm really not sure what to make of it, as always, but it seems particularly all over the board. Sorry for the long read, just wondered if anyone had any thoughts--so tough to understand.

Her: I think you're going to change your mind about adopting [my SS7's name]

Me: What?

Her: I just think you will.

Me: I'm his dad.

Her: Okay.

Me: I spoke to a lawyer. She thinks a judge wouldn't allow adoption at the moment, but we can do written orders that I can be involved.

Her: Good. Should I get a lawyer? You're the one filing? Are you planing on doing some to me? Like suing for custody or anything mean-spirited?

Me: Nothing mean spirited. It was just a consult. I'll hire her in a month. I just want a clean break and to not have to deal with each other much.

Her: Did she mention whether it could be done sooner than a year? Me too.

Me: Not really. I'll ask when I get her.

Her: If I could not deal with you at all, that would be ideal, but you know, [SS7 name].

Me: Yeah agreed. Your mom has been great though.

Her: I'm sorry I met you.

Me: I'm sorry you feel that way.

Her: You feel the same way.

Me: I'm glad that I met [SS7 name]

Her: It wasn't a.l. bad. I'm glad he has you in his life.

Me: Yeah, true. We had some good times.

Her: You seem cold and uncaring lately. Like it didn't take you long to get over me. Like maybe you never did. Never did care, I mean.

Me: I absolutely did. You hurt me a lot. Plus you stopped loving me months ago.

Her: I wish I could take back all of 2016 and start over. I don't wish I never met you.

Me: Me too. Sorry it came to this.

Her: I'm sorry too. No chance at starting over? Not even for, [SS7 name]?

Me: I'm sorry, no. You really hurt me. I couldn't trust you again. Besides I do believe you stopped loving me.

Her: If I stopped loving you, why do I feel torn apart?

Me: Because things aren't working out with your other man? IDK. All I know is that you dropped me.

Her: I don't have another man. He's a friend. You dropped me too. Your love isn't strong enough to overcome anything.

Me: You lied and cheated. My love couldn't overcome that.

Her: You didn't love me enough to help me through my depression. You don't want me to be happy. You keep saying things aren't working out with me and whoever you think I'm seeing, because you don't want things to work out for me. You never see or acknowledge your role in what happened. I suppose I miss you as a friend. I'm in [place] at a anime convention and all I keep thinking when I see all the art is, oh [your name] would love this.

Her: I feel torn apart when I think of our family, because we are broken. But if I'm honest with myself, I am the happiest I have ever been right now. I just wish I could have had this happiness with you.

(hours later)

Her: I hope that you can be happy again soon. That's all I want right now. I think about it a lot, how you deserve happiness and how you are capable of bringing so much joy to someone that isn't me.

Me: Hearing from you makes me really sad. You keep reminding me of how much I failed and how quickly you moved on. Please, stop. It really hurts to hear from you. You don't need to think about me. Just because I'm not reaching out, doesn't mean I'm not paralyzed with sadness.

Her: Your only failure was choosing to be with someone as sh***y as me. I'm so sorry.  

[Leonis]

Seems awfully similar to the text conversations I've had with my ex during and after we've broken up.

It usually starts out with a topic. Then, it proceeds into how I didn't do x, y, and z, etc., which made her wanted to break it off. Finally, it ends with "I am the reason why this is not working, I'm sorry."

Rinse and repeat.

[Wize]

Charmfest, push/pull, projections, painting white then black.  Good lord, man.  This is like a conversation with my stbx BPDw.  They all follow the same script.  By the way, who's kid are you trying to adopt?  This woman who you are conversing with?  Why?

[thrownforaloop]

charmfest, push/pull, projections, painting white then black.  Good lord, man.  This is like a conversation with my stbx BPDw.  They all follow the same script.  By the way, who's kid are you trying to adopt?  This woman who you are conversing with?  Why?

Thanks for responding, you two. It's at least comforting to know we aren't alone, eh?

And Wize, the kid is my BPD ex wife's son. I've been in his life since he was 3 and he's 7 now. His biological dad was never in the picture, so I took that role. We are important to each other. So, figuring out how to stay in his life while not having to speak to my ex is a real challenge!

[once removed]

So, figuring out how to stay in his life while not having to speak to my ex is a real challenge!

is it realistically possible?

[Wize]

charmfest, push/pull, projections, painting white then black.  Good lord, man.  This is like a conversation with my stbx BPDw.  They all follow the same script.  By the way, who's kid are you trying to adopt?  This woman who you are conversing with?  Why?

Thanks for responding, you two. It's at least comforting to know we aren't alone, eh?

And Wize, the kid is my BPD ex wife's son. I've been in his life since he was 3 and he's 7 now. His biological dad was never in the picture, so I took that role. We are important to each other. So, figuring out how to stay in his life while not having to speak to my ex is a real challenge!

Yikes.  I ain't gonna tell you what to do, but please at least reconsider this.  You have a chance to make a clean break.  And yet you're choosing to remain tied to her just because she has a toddler? And when she replaces you, then what the heck are you going to do? The kid is gonna have two dads? A stepdad and some other dad who isn't his real dad.  You're creating a potential mess.  It doesn't seem like you've thought this one through, and maybe you're viewing this adoption as a way to remain in your ex wife's life.  I strongly suggest you back away from the whole thing, put some real space between you and her(and her kid.)

[thrownforaloop]

Yikes.  I ain't gonna tell you what to do, but please at least reconsider this.  You have a chance to make a clean break.  And yet you're choosing to remain tied to her just because she has a toddler? And when she replaces you, then what the heck are you going to do? The kid is gonna have two dads? A stepdad and some other dad who isn't his real dad.  You're creating a potential mess.  It doesn't seem like you've thought this one through, and maybe you're viewing this adoption as a way to remain in your ex wife's life.  I strongly suggest you back away from the whole thing, put some real space between you and her(and her kid.)

Well, I have thought about this a good deal. He has referred to me as dad for the last three years... .and that is the relationship we've had--father and son. The reason why I think this can work is that I've been going through my ex's mom to see him. He hasn't been living with his mom since our separation because she can't get things together or doesn't want to. Also, believe me, I want distance from my ex. Though, I genuinely believe me abandoning her boy now would have a lot of negative effects on his life--and we wouldn't want him to end up with BPD because of abandonment issues, would we?

I do worry about when she introduces him to whatever new guy she brings home, but I still think that he'll always think of me as dad and will continue to go back and forth between us. And in the scenario where maybe my ex does get a new guy, introduces him to our boy as a new father figure and continues to write me out... .at least then I will know that he has a new dad in his life and I can rest easier as him and my relationship dissolves.

[sweet tooth]

That's a tough situation to be in. The kid is innocent in all of this. I can tell that you love the kid... .just like I wanted the opportunity to love my ex uBPDgf's child. I'm so sorry for you. It's  tragic... .

[Wize]

Yikes.  I ain't gonna tell you what to do, but please at least reconsider this.  You have a chance to make a clean break.  And yet you're choosing to remain tied to her just because she has a toddler? And when she replaces you, then what the heck are you going to do? The kid is gonna have two dads? A stepdad and some other dad who isn't his real dad.  You're creating a potential mess.  It doesn't seem like you've thought this one through, and maybe you're viewing this adoption as a way to remain in your ex wife's life.  I strongly suggest you back away from the whole thing, put some real space between you and her(and her kid.)

Well, I have thought about this a good deal. He has referred to me as dad for the last three years... .and that is the relationship we've had--father and son. The reason why I think this can work is that I've been going through my ex's mom to see him. He hasn't been living with his mom since our separation because she can't get things together or doesn't want to. Also, believe me, I want distance from my ex. Though, I genuinely believe me abandoning her boy now would have a lot of negative effects on his life--and we wouldn't want him to end up with BPD because of abandonment issues, would we?

I do worry about when she introduces him to whatever new guy she brings home, but I still think that he'll always think of me as dad and will continue to go back and forth between us. And in the scenario where maybe my ex does get a new guy, introduces him to our boy as a new father figure and continues to write me out... .at least then I will know that he has a new dad in his life and I can rest easier as him and my relationship dissolves.

I don't want to come off as harsh, so, sorry if I do.

The kid has grandparents, blood relatives that can take care of him.  He's not your kid, he's not even your stepkid anymore.  He's not your problem but you're making him your problem.  I don't know if it's because you're still in her FOG and need to clean up her messes by taking care of her kid or what.  He's 7 years old.  I'm sure he's a great kid, but hanging around in his life any longer could actually give him more issues than if you just disappeared. 

Think about some very real and possible scenarios.  Your wife, in all likelihood will find a new partner, maybe even get married again, maybe several times.  Who knows.  Not only are all these relationships going to be confusing as hell for her son, but then there's you, this guy who sort of floats in and out among all your your ex-wifes other lovers and relationships. 

Check your motivations.  Make sure it's not more about your needs, guilt and obligation and less about his best interest.  I'm saying all this because I'm in a similar situation with my stbxw BPD.  She has 3 amazing kids who call me papa.  But me sticking around is just going to make things so much more confusing in the long run.  I'm no longer going to be a part of their mother's life and, unfortunately by default I'm no longer a part of theirs.  It just has to be that way.  I hate it, but it just has be. 

[KarmasReal]

Wow, glad ou posted that feel like I've seen that type of texting go down way to much with my exBPD. Why can they do horrible things then try to get your sympathy by saying they are so terrible and you are so great. They love that reverse psychology, at least mine does.

[Herodias]

Mine said all the same stuff- I'm sorry to say this but it's only because I have seen it happen to my step father. She only wants you to adopt so you can pay child support. She will make seeing him hell. I would really think this out. You didn't adopt him when you first married. I would consider it divine intervention. Poor kid, but you can do things for him on your own time with out adoption and you will see what she lets you do. Some states you can get divorced in 3 months for cheating. You have to prove it- I'm doing  that now/ you have to be the one to file. Tread carefully here... .

[schwing]

Hi thrownforaloop,

Her: You didn't love me enough to help me through my depression. You don't want me to be happy. You keep saying things aren't working out with me and whoever you think I'm seeing, because you don't want things to work out for me. You never see or acknowledge your role in what happened.

This quote stood out the most for me.  "You didn't love me enough to help me through my depression."  This is the fantasy.  Love cannot cure mental illness.  Love can be a very important support for recovery.  However, she clearly expected your love for her to cure her of issues she's been dealing with all her life (and is probably in denial over).

"You don't want me to be happy."  I think this is a bit of projection.  She doesn't want to be happy; rather she doesn't want to face the issues that are preventing her to finding happiness.  Until she starts to recover from her disorder, her disorder will always impede her happiness.

"You keep saying things aren't working out with me and whoever you think I'm seeing, because you don't want things to work out for me."  Is this her example of you not wanting her to be happy?  She is probably upset about this because it hits closer to home with her than she cares to admit.  She is accusing you of not wanting her to be happy because you are pointing out that she seems not to be happy with this new person (whoever you *think* she is seeing -- she won't even admit that is what has happened).  The truth for her is that she will never be happy with anyone until she gets a handle on her disorder.

Her: I feel torn apart when I think of our family, because we are broken. But if I'm honest with myself, I am the happiest I have ever been right now. I just wish I could have had this happiness with you.

I'm guessing that she is the "happiest" she has ever been only at the start of any new relationship.  Because that new relationship is new enough that it does not sufficiently trigger her disordered feelings.  But she fails to learn from her experience, which is that with each new relationship, the no longer stay new.  And then her disordered feelings start to manifest.  And this has happened every single time.  And each time she blames the other person for not loving her sufficiently.

Best wishes, Schwing

[thrownforaloop]

I don't want to come off as harsh, so, sorry if I do.

The kid has grandparents, blood relatives that can take care of him.  He's not your kid, he's not even your stepkid anymore.  He's not your problem but you're making him your problem.  I don't know if it's because you're still in her FOG and need to clean up her messes by taking care of her kid or what.  He's 7 years old.  I'm sure he's a great kid, but hanging around in his life any longer could actually give him more issues than if you just disappeared. 

Think about some very real and possible scenarios.  Your wife, in all likelihood will find a new partner, maybe even get married again, maybe several times.  Who knows.  Not only are all these relationships going to be confusing as hell for her son, but then there's you, this guy who sort of floats in and out among all your your ex-wifes other lovers and relationships. 

Check your motivations.  Make sure it's not more about your needs, guilt and obligation and less about his best interest.  I'm saying all this because I'm in a similar situation with my stbxw BPD.  She has 3 amazing kids who call me papa.  But me sticking around is just going to make things so much more confusing in the long run.  I'm no longer going to be a part of their mother's life and, unfortunately by default I'm no longer a part of theirs.  It just has to be that way.  I hate it, but it just has be. 

Wize, thank you for your honesty. I understand where you're coming from. I'm not staying in his life for myself though--otherwise I would move states and get out of here tomorrow. The situation may be a bit different from yours--my ex has not been being much of a mother. And my SS7's grandmother, who he's been living with most days, is in pretty bad health and has a hard time keeping up with him and being a proper parent figure. A lot of days, she doesn't bother to take him to school. She loves him, but she has a hard time. They don't really have many other family members to take care of him either. This is why I feel necessary for his well being. Obviously I love him, but I do think that if I left, his well being would suffer. And again, if my ex does remarry/find a new father figure for him soon and replaces my relationship with him, then I would slowly back off.

Herodias, I really agree with you here--the ex has mentioned wanting child support numerous times already (which makes no sense, considering she's not taking care of him). However, I find that if I ignore her when she does that, and go through her mother to see my SS7, things go smoothly. I wouldn't be adopting him--it would be more of a court order that he gets to spend some time with me for now.

schwing, thanks for the interpretation--you sound spot on! She has been rationalizing her cheating with the "you didn't get me mental help" for a while. However, in hind sight, I do wish I would have known about BPD and how to help her... .but I didn't really understand what she was going through. I know it's up to the person to get themselves help, but I do wish I had done something more. She started lying to me nonstop as she was going through the thick of the depression though, so it was really hard to follow her train of thought and know what she needed. You are also spot on about being happiest at the start of relationships. When she first started dating me, she told me that I had made her feel very happy and that I was helping her get through her sadness. Then, times changed and I couldn't keep up with the consistent negative feelings, I guess. Everything became my fault.

I also wonder, if she is the happiest she's ever been with out me, why is she still taking so much time to text me and also ask for another chance together? Baffling.

[thrownforaloop]

Wanted to give an updated to this post.

She has still been continuing to text me a bunch over the past few days, it's really bumming me out to hear from her. She knows I have counseling on Wednesdays and was texting me to have a good counseling session. I didn't respond, then later she asked, ":)o you know who you are anymore?". I didn't respond. Later, she started talking about my SS7, so I did respond. Then she detoured the conversation and said that she loves me and regrets what she did every single day.

She went on to say that I'm a good person and didn't deserve what she did... .that she's not saying that to get me back--that she absolutely doesn't want me back and that she's very happy alone (though I don't believe she's alone). That we were never a good fit as a couple, but she'll always love me because my soul is "unblemished and pure". She also mentioned that she knows I tend to get depressed and think the worst in myself, but I shouldn't because we never fit together. That we brought out the worst in each other.  And that she thinks I'll find my soulmate and that she was getting in the way of that when we were together.

I didn't respond to these statements, but they really did hurt me. Feeling very down today. I hate that she keeps rubbing in how happy she is now, even though I don't want to get back together. I don't want to hear the constant updates of how bad we were for each other--just makes me hate myself more than I already do.

Anyway, it seemed like a lot of closure statements coming from her and I hope that was the end of it--her getting it all out, although it's hard to say. It may have just been trying to hurt me.

[C.Stein]

I didn't respond to these statements, but they really did hurt me.

Then you should tell her.

I would love to hear my ex apologize and accept responsibility for what she did but I damn sure wouldn't want to hear the rest of that.

[thrownforaloop]

I didn't respond to these statements, but they really did hurt me.

Then you should tell her.

I would love to hear my ex apologize and accept responsibility for what she did but I damn sure wouldn't want to hear the rest of that.

C.Stein, haha, yeah it is sort of nice, but also sort of rough to hear apologies. They don't really mean anything now.

Anyway, I told her a few days ago that it hurt me to hear from her... .and yet... .she still continues to text me. Either she thinks she can say the right combo of things to make me feel better, she likes making me feel bad or option 3: getting rid of her guilt is more important than my feelings.

[C.Stein]

getting rid of her guilt is more important than my feelings.

Relieving her own guilt is the only thing that matters and she probably doesn't get or see how it could possibly hurt you, even though you told her.  Knowing that this is part of the disorder can help to depersonalize the behavior.

[thrownforaloop]

getting rid of her guilt is more important than my feelings.

Relieving her own guilt is the only thing that matters and she probably doesn't get or see how it could possibly hurt you, even though you told her.  Knowing that this is part of the disorder can help to depersonalize the behavior.

Thanks for the response. It does help a bit to think of it that way. It's a shame she won't listen when I tell her I don't want to hear it though. 

[RighteousAnger]

Wanted to give an updated to this post.

She has still been continuing to text me a bunch over the past few days, it's really bumming me out to hear from her. She knows I have counseling on Wednesdays and was texting me to have a good counseling session. I didn't respond, then later she asked, ":)o you know who you are anymore?". I didn't respond. Later, she started talking about my SS7, so I did respond. Then she detoured the conversation and said that she loves me and regrets what she did every single day.

She went on to say that I'm a good person and didn't deserve what she did... .that she's not saying that to get me back--that she absolutely doesn't want me back and that she's very happy alone (though I don't believe she's alone). That we were never a good fit as a couple, but she'll always love me because my soul is "unblemished and pure". She also mentioned that she knows I tend to get depressed and think the worst in myself, but I shouldn't because we never fit together. That we brought out the worst in each other.  And that she thinks I'll find my soulmate and that she was getting in the way of that when we were together.

I didn't respond to these statements, but they really did hurt me. Feeling very down today. I hate that she keeps rubbing in how happy she is now, even though I don't want to get back together. I don't want to hear the constant updates of how bad we were for each other--just makes me hate myself more than I already do.

Anyway, it seemed like a lot of closure statements coming from her and I hope that was the end of it--her getting it all out, although it's hard to say. It may have just been trying to hurt me.

Wow... .sometimes I wonder if pwBPD are telepathic with each other as these texts could have been taken out of my phone with my ex pwBPD gf. Well, not anymore because I have blocked her phone... .because they will not stop as long as you are reachable and respond. Closure with a pwBPD is not possible, sorry. Just continued black and white statements (but dammit don't those white statements make you feel so good? I know I got a high on them... .why I kept going back), projection, manipulation and diversion (she didn't really want to discuss SS7's with you and it sounds like she didn't much, but she knew that would get you to respond... .THE HOOK).  You can go no contact, but you will not get closure from her.

That brings me to her son. Forgive me if I sound harsh, but you cannot be wishy-washy regarding children and it sounds like you are with statements like you'll just fade out of the picture if she gets a new man. You said the child sees you as a father figure... .do you see yourself as a father figure? To me it doesn't sound it... .as a father myself there is no way in hell I'd "fade out of the picture" when my ex (luckily not my ex BPD gf) gets a new man. My son is my son and I'm his father... .period. I understand your concern for the child, they are vulnerable and victims to circumstance. They do not have a choice of their environment. It is hard to not want to help them, but if you chose that path you will be subjected to continued "abuse" from your ex... .she will not stop. Personally in my opinion you cut your ties with her and her child (I recommend this one more) or you step up and legally become that child's step father/guardian and decide you will never "fade" out of his life because you will always be his father (that has to deal with your ex BPDw).

And btw, I've been dealing with those types of text messages and conversations for the past year with my ex BPD gf until I finally went no contact 2 weeks ago. It hasn't been easy because I went from high chaos to almost no chaos in my life... .but for now I'm holding strong because pwBPD can bring out the worst in you (it did me) especially when they are not willing to work on themselves and their disorder. Good luck and may the Force be with you

[Meili]

It all sounds like a bunch of manipulation to me. My exgf used to send those kind of texts, but when she didn't get her desired reaction she'd go ballistic and rage. When she stopped getting any reaction at all from me, she got bored after about two weeks and apparently moved on to something else.

It was eerie reading your conversation. It brought back so many red flags from the beginning of my relationship. When you look back, can you see a pattern of this behavior?

With regard to your SS7, first, I find it admirable that you are considering adopting him, but I wonder about your motivation. I read where you said that you wanted to stay part of his life, but I wonder if there's an easier way that won't keep you tied to your stbx? If the grandmother has SS7, and your stbx doesn't spend much time with him, and the grandmother is in poor health; can't you just spend time with him without the legal formalities of adoption and obligation to stay tied to your stbx and probably have to pay her child support?

I am not trying to change your mind on the subject. As I said, I find it admirable that you're willing to step up with SS7's bio parents are failing.

[thrownforaloop]

Wow... .sometimes I wonder if pwBPD are telepathic with each other as these texts could have been taken out of my phone with my ex pwBPD gf. Well, not anymore because I have blocked her phone... .because they will not stop as long as you are reachable and respond. Closure with a pwBPD is not possible, sorry. Just continued black and white statements (but dammit don't those white statements make you feel so good? I know I got a high on them... .why I kept going back), projection, manipulation and diversion (she didn't really want to discuss SS7's with you and it sounds like she didn't much, but she knew that would get you to respond... .THE HOOK).  You can go no contact, but you will not get closure from her.

That brings me to her son. Forgive me if I sound harsh, but you cannot be wishy-washy regarding children and it sounds like you are with statements like you'll just fade out of the picture if she gets a new man. You said the child sees you as a father figure... .do you see yourself as a father figure? To me it doesn't sound it... .as a father myself there is no way in hell I'd "fade out of the picture" when my ex (luckily not my ex BPD gf) gets a new man. My son is my son and I'm his father... .period. I understand your concern for the child, they are vulnerable and victims to circumstance. They do not have a choice of their environment. It is hard to not want to help them, but if you chose that path you will be subjected to continued "abuse" from your ex... .she will not stop. Personally in my opinion you cut your ties with her and her child (I recommend this one more) or you step up and legally become that child's step father/guardian and decide you will never "fade" out of his life because you will always be his father (that has to deal with your ex BPDw).

And btw, I've been dealing with those types of text messages and conversations for the past year with my ex BPD gf until I finally went no contact 2 weeks ago. It hasn't been easy because I went from high chaos to almost no chaos in my life... .but for now I'm holding strong because pwBPD can bring out the worst in you (it did me) especially when they are not willing to work on themselves and their disorder. Good luck and may the Force be with you

RighteousAnger, glad to hear that you've gone NC with your ex--that really does sound like the wisest thing to do. And you're right, it is super easy to get high on the compliments, although I generally end up being more confused than anything, still wondering why she chose to move on from me if I was good. I mean, I understand that it's the nature of BPD, but damn... .I still can't wrap my head around it. I felt that I was a fairly decent husband and person... .and if she acknowledges that sometimes... .ugh. Just doesn't make sense to me.

I understand what you're saying about making a firm decision to be a dad or not. I understand that it's unfair to the child too. However, since I'm not biologically related, it really complicates things. I'm experiencing a great deal of sadness lately, so it's hard to make a choice, especially when I'm getting a lot of conflicting advice. Many people have been telling me since the separation, that since I'm not related to him, this situation will never work out for me to stay his dad long term. They say it's hopeless and that sooner or later, my ex will take my privileges away. Plus the lawyer I spoke to said that adoption isn't really an option right now.

I would love to stay in his life, and have been actively seeing him and being his dad, but it's disheartening to hear from so many people how I'm making a mistake by not moving on. And wondering how the future will look--when I start dating, then marry and start a new family--will my ex flip out and lash out at a new spouse for how she helps raise my SS7? Etc. Another part of me feels hurt that, perhaps it was my ex's game to get me, a fool, to raise her kid for her while she can go party. That's why, when I pick up my SS7, it's hard not to feel sad. I put on a happy face, but I do feel that I'm continuing to be used and manipulated. Not saying I don't love my SS7 a ton, but you know... .feels like I'll always be her puppet. Sigh.

[thrownforaloop]

It all sounds like a bunch of manipulation to me. My exgf used to send those kind of texts, but when she didn't get her desired reaction she'd go ballistic and rage. When she stopped getting any reaction at all from me, she got bored after about two weeks and apparently moved on to something else.

It was eerie reading your conversation. It brought back so many red flags from the beginning of my relationship. When you look back, can you see a pattern of this behavior?

With regard to your SS7, first, I find it admirable that you are considering adopting him, but I wonder about your motivation. I read where you said that you wanted to stay part of his life, but I wonder if there's an easier way that won't keep you tied to your stbx? If the grandmother has SS7, and your stbx doesn't spend much time with him, and the grandmother is in poor health; can't you just spend time with him without the legal formalities of adoption and obligation to stay tied to your stbx and probably have to pay her child support?

I am not trying to change your mind on the subject. As I said, I find it admirable that you're willing to step up with SS7's bio parents are failing.

Thanks for the response, Meili. I apologize if I triggered some negative memories! And yeah, totally... .the more I think through the relationship, the more HUGH red flags I recognize. In fact, I remember telling my brother about her a couple weeks in--her rough history that she would brag about-- and his response was, "Well, she seems cool, but don't be surprised when she cheats on you". He was right, shouldn't have been surprised. Was your ex's pattern always there?

Regarding my SS7, yes, right now has been going well because I'm helping out without being legally obligated. My ex has been mentioning child support off and on, but has no grounds for asking at this point. I think I'll continue on like this for the near future anyway. I'll see if the situation morphs at all and ask a lawyer from help from there. Fingers crossed that my ex won't start getting aggressive or anything.

[RighteousAnger]

Thrownforaloop, I feel your pain. We become so accustomed to the chaos of their games (although it isn't really a game to them... .just their disorder) that when their isn't chaos from them in our lives we can feel... .well empty. I understand the puppet feeling as I quite literally used those exact words to describe how I felt with my ex BPD gf. Your ex likes to party? No surprise there. My ex BPD gf would tell me how much she just wanted a man (me) to stay in with at home instead of "having" to go party. But when we'd be good (relatively speaking) and an opportunity arose to go to a party or go out (any opportunity... .could be a friend of a friends party) she would go out knowing that I couldn't go out since I had my son. She'd say she'd probably only be there for a couple hours and then be unreachable after she got drunk and then show up at my door at 3 a.m. drunk and high wanting sex and wondering why I was upset. And if I as much as went out to a happy hour with coworkers without her she'd have to "punish" me (after she raged) by going out, not telling me who she is out with or where she is until the wee hours of the morning when I'd get that knock at the door or the call on her way to my place.

The thing is we have to remember we are only a puppet if we allow ourselves to be one. We are not a helpless, even though we can often feel that way with our pwBPD. It helps to remember they alter facts to match their feelings which is why as a rational person you can start to feel crazy. I gave up my hobbies, stopped hanging out with and talking to friends, and even stopped talking to my family much... .all for her and it still was never enough, she'd find a reason to be upset with me. In my opinion it is pretty much impossible to date someone with this disorder if they are not actively seeking help for it. When I told her she had BPD (big mistake btw) she told me I was the one with BPD (pretty common response apparently).

I hate to say this, there is a good possibility she will end up using SS7 against you to hurt you since you will have no legal binding to the child. For example, if you don't do what she wants... ."Fine! Then you don't get to see SS7!" That is a horrible place to be in. As hard as it is to walk away from a child who looks up to you or sees you as a father figure (I had to with an ex that didn't have BPD) it probably is the best thing for your health in the long run. Hang in there... .as you can see you are not alone.

[thrownforaloop]

she would go out knowing that I couldn't go out since I had my son. She'd say she'd probably only be there for a couple hours and then be unreachable after she got drunk and then show up at my door at 3 a.m. drunk and high wanting sex and wondering why I was upset.

Jeez, yeah, that sounds about right. Only, mine would leave me to watch her son/or make an excuse why I couldn't go with her if he happened to be with her mom for the night. And also, she never wanted sex whenever she bothered to come home (if she came home at all), which further indicated she was sleeping around. 

In my opinion it is pretty much impossible to date someone with this disorder if they are not actively seeking help for it.

Truth! It's such a shame that they often fail to see the situation with any perspective. It always does seem to be how other people are hurting them, never how they could be effecting others. Ever.

I hate to say this, there is a good possibility she will end up using SS7 against you to hurt you since you will have no legal binding to the child. For example, if you don't do what she wants... ."Fine! Then you don't get to see SS7!" That is a horrible place to be in. As hard as it is to walk away from a child who looks up to you or sees you as a father figure (I had to with an ex that didn't have BPD) it probably is the best thing for your health in the long run. Hang in there... .as you can see you are not alone.

She did this a bit when I first moved out. She would call me, yelling about how she didn't trust me with him and that I was a mediocre babysitter at best, not a father. She would threaten that I couldn't see him when we got in arguments about other things. But now, I think she's realizing that I'm of use to her--as she doesn't feel like taking care of him herself. But, like we were talking about before, that could quickly change once she gets in another serious relationship, and has to prove to the new guy how she's a good mother. Then she'll probably kick me away. 

[Meili]

Thanks for the response, Meili. I apologize if I triggered some negative memories! And yeah, totally... .the more I think through the relationship, the more HUGH red flags I recognize. In fact, I remember telling my brother about her a couple weeks in--her rough history that she would brag about-- and his response was, "Well, she seems cool, but don't be surprised when she cheats on you". He was right, shouldn't have been surprised. Was your ex's pattern always there?

Regarding my SS7... .

Yes, her patterns were there from the beginning. I found the behavior odd and took careful note of it. I had been down this road before with my xw and my xgf followed the very same script. In fact, my friends started to refer to my xgf as version 2.0 of my xw I was hoping beyond all hope that I was just paranoid and misreading things. I wasn't.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, I can now see many things that I didn't even realize were red flags at the time, and it all makes perfect sense now.

I've noticed that you've made several comments that are red flags regarding your stbx and SS7. Things like "you're a mediocre babysitter at best," she's made noise already about child support, the presumption that she'll kick you aside to play supermom when she gets into a new relationship... .I paraphrase of course. Are you giving these red flags proper credence?

[thrownforaloop]

Thanks for the response, Meili. I apologize if I triggered some negative memories! And yeah, totally... .the more I think through the relationship, the more HUGH red flags I recognize. In fact, I remember telling my brother about her a couple weeks in--her rough history that she would brag about-- and his response was, "Well, she seems cool, but don't be surprised when she cheats on you". He was right, shouldn't have been surprised. Was your ex's pattern always there?

Regarding my SS7... .

Yes, her patterns were there from the beginning. I found the behavior odd and took careful note of it. I had been down this road before with my xw and my xgf followed the very same script. In fact, my friends started to refer to my xgf as version 2.0 of my xw I was hoping beyond all hope that I was just paranoid and misreading things. I wasn't.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, I can now see many things that I didn't even realize were red flags at the time, and it all makes perfect sense now.

I've noticed that you've made several comments that are red flags regarding your stbx and SS7. Things like "you're a mediocre babysitter at best," she's made noise already about child support, the presumption that she'll kick you aside to play supermom when she gets into a new relationship... .I paraphrase of course. Are you giving these red flags proper credence?

That's unfortunate that you stumbled upon two people with this problem one right after the other! Did you get out a lot faster the second time around? That's good that your friends were warning you with your xgf, to give more assurance that you should be cautious.

Yeah, I have been taking my exBPDw's red flags seriously lately. She is unpredictable, which is the roughest part--I feel like I can't make any long term plans for the future right now, as I'm not sure if she'll randomly pull away my visits with my SS7. In consequence, I'll probably find a month by month place to rent (living with my cousin now) and see my SS7 as much as I can. Also, hiring the lawyer officially soon will help too, with seeing about shared custody without adoption. Not sure how long that sort of paperwork would be good for though... .we will see...

[Meili]

Actually, I had a long term relationship with someone else between the xw and xgf. Unfortunately, I found that relationship boring and uninteresting. I started talking to the xgf during the middle relationship and dumped that girl so that I could go running into the chaos. But, yes, I did get out of the relationship with the xgf much sooner than the marriage to the xw (1.5 years vs. 7 years).

Yeah, getting a lawyer to help with SS7 should help. I can only imagine how horrible it must be to be subject to her whims with regard to that relationship. I'd certainly want a court order in place to help curtail her games and punishments.

[thrownforaloop]

Actually, I had a long term relationship with someone else between the xw and xgf. Unfortunately, I found that relationship boring and uninteresting. I started talking to the xgf during the middle relationship and dumped that girl so that I could go running into the chaos. But, yes, I did get out of the relationship with the xgf much sooner than the marriage to the xw (1.5 years vs. 7 years).

Yeah, getting a lawyer to help with SS7 should help. I can only imagine how horrible it must be to be subject to her whims with regard to that relationship. I'd certainly want a court order in place to help curtail her games and punishments.

Ah, gotcha. That's interesting that you found the more normal personality boring. Do you think you'll be able to avoid pwBPD in the future?

And thanks, I hope the lawyer will help. She just texted me that she's taking my SS7 to another state for a mini vacation soon--which is strange, because she can't drive or get around alone. Which means, maybe she is moving faster than I thought with the other guy. I guess I should get a move on this lawyer thing.

[Meili]

I think that I'll only be able to avoid pwBPD with lots of counseling. It's familiar and comfortable to me. It's really the only time that I feel anything. My t and I are currently looking for healthy ways for me to "find the rush."

Yeah, the vacation is an interesting thing, but there really is no use in speculating about the "whys" or "hows." We can never know what is going through the mind of another, much less someone with a PD!

[thrownforaloop]

I think that I'll only be able to avoid pwBPD with lots of counseling. It's familiar and comfortable to me. It's really the only time that I feel anything. My t and I are currently looking for healthy ways for me to "find the rush."

Yeah, the vacation is an interesting thing, but there really is no use in speculating about the "whys" or "hows." We can never know what is going through the mind of another, much less someone with a PD!

Well, I wish you luck in finding a healthy relationship!

And true, I shouldn't rush to assume. You're absolutely right.