I contacted her today and am going for a drink tonight...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have completely changed.  When I met her I was insecure and paranoid.  I didnt treat her very well because of that. I am not that person anymore

When I met my ex I was in a relatively good place emotionally, feeling grounded and stable with good self-confidence and self-esteem.  I slowly became insecure and somewhat paranoid  as a result of the things my ex said and did.  I never really acted on those feelings but they ate away at me and caused a significant amount of anxiety and fear throughout the entire relationship.  I don't know if my ex really understands the impact of the things she says and does on a conscious level but sub-consciously it was a means to control me.  I think somewhere in her mind she thinks if I am insecure/paranoid with respect to her that I will work that much harder to hold onto her ... .and she was right.  I did work that much harder, putting up with things I should have never put up with.  I wanted so much to believe in her and trust her and I overlooked a lot of things because of that.  

The point here is she caused the instability within me and even though I pointed it out to her and she agreed it was wrong and didn't want to be that way she never really stopped doing/saying the things that kept me feeling insecure with respect to her.  

There is nothing wrong with feeling insecure if there is good reason for feeling that way.  I had so many conversations with myself in my head explaining away gut feelings/instincts that something wasn't right, that she wasn't being completely honest, that something was going on.  I convinced myself I had no good reason to feel paranoid/insecure, but it didn't help with the anxiety and fear.  I felt like it was just a matter of time before the other shoe dropped and sadly it did.  

The times when I attempted to discuss this stuff with her was usually met with a very childlike response (behavior and verbally) from her, playing the victim taking attention away from my feelings and making it all about her.  I let her do this, she effectively manipulated me emotionally to feel sympathy and guilt.  As a result the issues never got addressed and the emotional wounds never healed.  She had effectively marginalized my feelings and emotional well being  ... .sweeping any uncomfortable relationship issue under the rug, especially when it came to my feelings.  

Over time I eventually let her do this sweeping without protest  ... .she had completely conditioned me to let her do this.   It was easier to do this than to try and have an adult conversation with her because when I did she would more times than not have a 2-3 day meltdown into a pit of depression, despair and self-pity ... .complete with the suicide ideation.  The downside to letting her sweep is it also resulted in me withdrawing and distancing myself from the pain and it impacted me in ways I am only beginning to see and understand now at 10 months post trash bin.  It obviously impacted our relationship as well.

Why am I telling you all this?  To show you that no matter how strong and secure you might think you are it can so very quickly change.  Also please be aware that your need for constant validation suggests that you aren't really as secure as you might think you are.  This is something you should be giving serious consideration to as you move forward.  Be careful not to bury you head in the sand and hope for the best CB.

[C.Stein]

I have completely changed.  When I met her I was insecure and paranoid.  I didnt treat her very well because of that. I am not that person anymore

When I met my ex I was in a relatively good place emotionally, feeling grounded and stable with good self-confidence and self-esteem.  I slowly became insecure and somewhat paranoid  as a result of the things my ex said and did.  I never really acted on those feelings but they ate away at me and caused a significant amount of anxiety and fear throughout the entire relationship.  I don't know if my ex really understands the impact of the things she says and does on a conscious level but sub-consciously it was a means to control me.  I think somewhere in her mind she thinks if I am insecure/paranoid with respect to her that I will work that much harder to hold onto her ... .and she was right.  I did work that much harder, putting up with things I should have never put up with.  I wanted so much to believe in her and trust her and I overlooked a lot of things because of that.  

The point here is she caused the instability within me and even though I pointed it out to her and she agreed it was wrong and didn't want to be that way she never really stopped doing/saying the things that kept me feeling insecure with respect to her.  

There is nothing wrong with feeling insecure if there is good reason for feeling that way.  I had so many conversations with myself in my head explaining away gut feelings/instincts that something wasn't right, that she wasn't being completely honest, that something was going on.  I convinced myself I had no good reason to feel paranoid/insecure, but it didn't help with the anxiety and fear.  I felt like it was just a matter of time before the other shoe dropped and sadly it did.  

The times when I attempted to discuss this stuff with her was usually met with a very childlike response (behavior and verbally) from her, playing the victim taking attention away from my feelings and making it all about her.  I let her do this, she effectively manipulated me emotionally to feel sympathy and guilt.  As a result the issues never got addressed and the emotional wounds never healed.  She had effectively marginalized my feelings and emotional well being  ... .sweeping any uncomfortable relationship issue under the rug, especially when it came to my feelings.  

Over time I eventually let her do this sweeping without protest  ... .she had completely conditioned me to let her do this.   It was easier to do this than to try and have an adult conversation with her because when I did she would more times than not have a 2-3 day meltdown into a pit of depression, despair and self-pity ... .complete with the suicide ideation.  The downside to letting her sweep is it also resulted in me withdrawing and distancing myself from the pain and it impacted me in ways I am only beginning to see and understand now at 10 months post trash bin.  It obviously impacted our relationship as well.

Why am I telling you all this?  To show you that no matter how strong and secure you might think you are it can so very quickly change.  Also please be aware that your need for constant validation suggests that you aren't really as secure as you might think you are.  This is something you should be giving serious consideration to as you move forward.  Be careful not to bury you head in the sand and hope for the best CB.

[bAlex]

Interesting point C.Stein.

But I think if you take them less seriously it shouldn't be difficult. If you come from a place where you actually decide that you're 2 people having fun and spending time together instead of viewing her as some sort of prize or your one and only your emotions shouldn't get in the way.

I know mine liked having freedom, she didn't like to feel smothered or pedestalized, or overly jealous. And that was exactly what I was doing, because my emotions got the better of me. BPD or not, no woman would like that or respect a man that does that. She was indirectly causing it, yes, but looking back I know that I could've probably prevented this if I just chilled the hell out.

[C.Stein]

But I think if you take them less seriously it shouldn't be difficult. If you come from a place where you actually decide that you're 2 people having fun and spending time together instead of viewing her as some sort of prize or your one and only your emotions shouldn't get in the way.

What you have described here is not a romantic relationship, it is a friendship at best.

I know mine liked having freedom, she didn't like to feel smothered or pedestalized, or overly jealous. And that was exactly what I was doing, because my emotions got the better of me. BPD or not, no woman would like that or respect a man that does that. She was indirectly causing it, yes, but looking back I know that I could've probably prevented this if I just chilled the hell out.

I encouraged my ex to be independent, to stand on her own two feet and have confidence in herself.  I supported her efforts to this end and provided advice and guidance when needed.  I wouldn't let her put me in the position to take responsibility for her life and decisions, and she did try to do just that on numerous occasions.   Did this help our relationship?  It did in some significant ways.  Did it help her manage her "dark side" with more success ... .I think it did.  Did it stop her dark side from controlling her decisions and behavior when it was critical for her to keep it under control ... .no it didn't.

[bAlex]

Well, define romantic relationship. Some guys expect their gf to be their mommies and hold their hand wherever they go. Some like to have more space and feel crowded when that happens. Different strokes, different folks.

But if I have learned 1 thing is that women like you more if you don't take them too seriously. If you become this sensitive guy that acts out every time she does something wrong they lose respect for you.

All I'm getting at is that I probably wouldn't have ended up here if I didn't get caught up in my own emotions. You just can't let a woman's crap get the better of you.

[once removed]

bAlex,

after a series of bad/unhealthy relationships in high school, and realizing my lack of confidence, at around age eighteen i shared many of your views about women.

you could argue that i proceeded to trade in one romantic attachment style (anxious) for another (avoidant). it led me to my relationship with my ex, in which i behaved more or less as youre proposing might work in a relationship with a person with BPD. it did not.

and most importantly this was not me being authentic, truly confident, comfortable in my skin, and displaying firm boundaries.

want to find a healthy mature woman (who would not stand for not being taken seriously)? lose these ideas about women in general, and develop those things.

[confusedbloke]

Hi everyone - thought Id give an update... .  I know this probably belongs on a different board, but I kinda know you guys now, and you know my story, and I dont think I wish to start another thread with a set of strangers.

Plus Id like to think you are interested to know... .

Firstly I just would like to apologise if I seemed short with certain members... .  I take offence quite easily, particularly when Im trying to remain positive.  I was just trying to build us ALL up and have a little faith in ourselves and try something different... .

So anyway everything was going fantastically - very in to each other until yesterday.

My ex wife came to pick the kids up and we talked for a while, while exBPD was upstairs.  My mother is ill in hospital and my exwife was telling me about what happened (she is closer to my mother than I am).

When she went, I went upstairs and I could tell her mood had changed.  She said that she is ok but she doesnt like the fact that my exwife can just walk in to the house and bla bla... .Same old crap from before... .I changed and bent everything for her, but nothing made her happy.

Anyway she went to sleep for a bit.  I tidied the house and started to get a bit freaked out as nothing had really changed - she was back to her old ways... .  When she woke I said that perhaps she should go home.  Then she became angry.  As I wasnt bothered by her outburst - and i left her to it and went and watched tv for a bit.  After 20 mins she came back into the house and I said "would you like to discuss it now?".  She said yes.  I said to her that everything we agreed on when we were together is now null and void.  And I absolutely will not compromise my integrity because of her issues.  I said if this is no good then we will absolutely not work.  I said to her that I changed all sorts for her and i was all over the place because I didnt know whether I was coming or going.  I will not do this again. After a few minutes she thought about it and apologised.  She also said that really should should have asked about my mother first.  It was a break through.  She is very much in love with me and is scared to lose me again. I was stronger for once.  I will not put up with her crap. 

Later on that day she opened up about her past and said that she trusted me 100%.  She admitted that her childhood has probably caused her to be this way and she doesnt want to be like this anymore.  Now she was in my camp, I mentioned about therapy and she said she started looking for a counsellor during our 5 week break.  But she also said she doesnt want a therapist at the moment as she just wants to talk to me about things.  I dont know if that will help or not, or if it is the right thing to do, but its what she feels comfortable with at the moment... so Im not going to put any pressure on her - and I think AlexB is right... .  Just chill out with them and set boundaries.  I feel quite positive that this approach will work.  I did tell her that when I had therapy it made me feel great, and thats what I will keep doing (planting the seed in her head about the positive aspects as opposed to labelling her 'crazy'.  I wont tell her shes crazy anymore and needs therapy, I will tell her that going there did ME the world of good... .so it may work for her.  She is absolutely besotted with me, and tbf I am with her.  She fascinates me. 

She was absolutely overjoyed that we managed to resolve an issue for the FIRST time ever. She said she was fighting all of her instincts to just run out of the house and ignore me and it was my instinct to kick her out.

When we had totally relaxed back into each other - I bigged the whole situation up, saying it was "amazing that we resolved that", and "wow we may just work afterall".  I was positively reinforcing the fact that resolving the issue was better than ignoring me for days and being sad.  I also said that if she had have gone, we would not work and that we should never try again.  She also said (with tongue in cheek) that she couldnt believe that I didnt come out to see her when I gave her 20 mins.  I usually would, all guns blazing, due to frustration.  I said that I feel different now.  Im not the same as before.  She thanked me for giving her 20 mins.  She said she needs that if we fall out.  I always remember her saying that, but because I was confused and frustrated with her I couldnt help but want to fight... .Not anymore.  Im going to respect her wishes.  If she wants 20 mins time out, she can have it.

I researched BPD so much and it all boils down to trust, well in my situation.  Im sure its not the same for everyone.  But Ive done my research and I will put it into practice.

So when I said I think its reversible, I didnt mean that Im a psychologist and know what Im doing, I wasnt saying that I knew everything, I just know her.  I know shes a good person, she just needs someone to trust... .and the only way that this will ever have a glimmer of hope is if I change things... .If I take the lead role and let her know how I expect to be treated and respect her wishes also

Anyway - I hope everyone is well

[bAlex]

That is excellent news! I'm gonna say it again, I wish I was in you're position right now.

Yes I do think most people don't know how to handle the situation without escalating it. Point is you shouldn't get emotional or sucked into her current state, let it go, stand your ground, don't be rude and it will pass. Not saying it will be easy, but if you think she's worth fighting for then why not at least try?

And that's all I want for myself, to just be able to try. I got way too emotional back then and I'm not ignoring her mistakes but I could've handled things better myself. Not everything is such a big deal so why freak out?

[bAlex]

And thanks for the update.

[confusedbloke]

What is your situation / status at the moment... .And yes I do believe that if you knew what you were getting yourself into, then you would have dealt with it differently... .

I got way too emotional also - its because the situation was nuts and trying to make her happy was the wrong way to go about it... .Her demands became insane and unreasonable... .It was a nightmare... .But I didn't understand what was going on... .But Im going to persevere and see how it goes... .Not thinking too much about it and Ive detached from our old relationship now... .

And yeah, everything is a big deal to them... .End of the world type stuff... .  But rising above it will change the dynamics of the relationship... .And no its not going to be easy, coz I have to bite my lip when she's being ridiculous, but the more I practice this, the more it will become natural and it might even change the way I am with other people... .I.e. not so quick to react (like I did on this thread)... .  This is something that I need to work on.  Im a positive person and love to learn, so who knows, this woman could actually be helping me to be a better person?


Cheers

[bAlex]

I was discarded, still hear from her from time to time though.

It's hard to just let her go, knowing that she's actually a good person, just a bit damaged from her childhood. I believe she needs a strong person in her life, someone to rely on, especially when she acts out.

One thing I learned was not to try and fix everything, it usually causes things to go south real quick, and I think I did it not only because I became emotional but also because I was idealizing her and treating her like a princess.  And because I did that I took small things personally and as a sign of disloyalty, basically became over sensitive. Some problems are her's to deal with and are really not that important to get upset about. Also people aren't perfect, I was literally trying to change her by pointing out her mistakes in a bad way and blaming her in the hopes that she would give in to me. Didn't work, but I kept doing it till she just couldn't deal with it anymore. She played her part, so did I. She's not blameless, but I think I overreacted a great deal. Sad really.

[C.Stein]

She said that she is ok but she doesnt like the fact that my exwife can just walk in to the house and bla bla... .

I don't know what the bla bla is but personally I don't see this as unreasonable under normal circumstances so I'm not entirely sure why you would get angry here?

Worth noting, I wasn't overly emotional with my ex.  There were a handful of times she pushed me over the edge, but the vast majority of the time I handled her "nonsense" without getting angry or letting it escalate.  I generally managed her moods well I think, but that didn't stop her from the subtle manipulations, deceiving and lying to me or replacing me months before she threw me away.

IMO, a relationship where one partner has one foot out the door isn't a relationship at all.  I say this because this is the distinct impression I am left with here CB.  It is not fair to you or her if this is how you have to conduct the relationship.  Please consider this as you move forward.

[confusedbloke]

Hi Stein... .No I didn't get angry, she did.  I meant bla bla, because it was always this obsession she had about my exwife.  I was just sick of hearing it.  Its not that she just walks in - I invite her in to drop the kids off... .And I was setting boundaries by saying you cannot tell me what to do anymore.  I bent over double trying to appease her and her wishes and in the end everything I did triggered her.  So from the beginning I am saying now that I have a very good relationship with my exwife (for the sake of the kids), and if that is not acceptable then we cannot continue.  Im not going to be treated badly by her again... .My kids have boundaries and we get on really well - amazingly actually... .

Being single them few weeks has made me realise the hell I was put through - but I didn't help with how I reacted to her... .And I felt freedom to be who I want to be.  But I do want the exgf just not in the way it was... .

Alex - yep everything you have said there mirrors exactly the way I was... .Ive never been like that before and I wont again... .  Hope it works out my friend... .

[bAlex]

confusedbloke

haha thanks, but at this point it would literally take a miracle

[C.Stein]

Hi Stein... .No I didn't get angry, she did.  I meant bla bla, because it was always this obsession she had about my exwife.  I was just sick of hearing it.  Its not that she just walks in - I invite her in to drop the kids off... .And I was setting boundaries by saying you cannot tell me what to do anymore.  I bent over double trying to appease her and her wishes and in the end everything I did triggered her.  So from the beginning I am saying now that I have a very good relationship with my exwife (for the sake of the kids), and if that is not acceptable then we cannot continue.  Im not going to be treated badly by her again... .My kids have boundaries and we get on really well - amazingly actually... .

Being single them few weeks has made me realise the hell I was put through - but I didn't help with how I reacted to her... .And I felt freedom to be who I want to be.  But I do want the exgf just not in the way it was... .

I would encourage you to open a thread on the improving board CB.  I see problems in your future, least of which is you are likely triggering her abandonment fears.  There is nothing wrong with the boundary you set concerning your ex wife, but the manner in which you enforced it is not conducive to a healthy relationship, especially with a borderline.  Something to consider if you want this relationship to go anywhere other than where it has already been.

[confusedbloke]

Thanks for the advice stein. I'm not as knowledgeable in this subject.

I'll perhaps give an update in 6 months or so and let you know how things panned out.

In the meantime thanks everyone you helped me through a tough time. I hope you all find what ur looking for...

[Compassion14]

Oft! I have to say... .total alarm bells ringing... .for you. Abandonment fears bring out their most loving side... .then you'll be accused of smothering her. I don't believe you can win. Please just listen to your gut and get out when it feels bad again. Been there, done that. Worried for you.