son is talking like BPD daughter in law

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have been struggling and hurt and angry in recent months as my son talks to me in ways my undiagnosed BPD daughter-in law would. I saw my counselor today and was told he more than likely is "copying" dil's ways. No! It was hard enough with just her. And, I really hate feeling both angry and hurt, because that means I am feeling like someone's victim. Also, son and I have been through way too much and worked way too hard to be comfortable adults and not just mother/son, for me to feel as though I am "losing" him to her illness! Counselor suggested I try to have a "heart to heart" with son, being careful with the timing. Oy vey! Drowning over here... .

[grandmag]

I have been struggling and hurt and angry in recent months as my son talks to me in ways my undiagnosed BPD daughter-in law would. I saw my counselor today and was told he more than likely is "copying" dil's ways. No! It was hard enough with just her. And, I really hate feeling both angry and hurt, because that means I am feeling like someone's victim. Also, son and I have been through way too much and worked way too hard to be comfortable adults and not just mother/son, for me to feel as though I am "losing" him to her illness! Counselor suggested I try to have a "heart to heart" with son, being careful with the timing. Oy vey! Drowning over here... .

[Turkish]

Though he isn't BPD, "copying" her may be a good way of putting it. If so, then he may need to be handled like a pwBPD. How much have you looked into the communication tools here.

What is your therapist's version of a "heart to heart" conversation entail? What's yours? Did the T give you any tips?

[jdtm]

I lived through the "same" thing - lost my son for several years.   A few years ago, our "now" ex-DIL left our son and abandoned her children.  He still is "wary" being around me and I feel the same way around him.  She had been "gone" for almost a decade now - unbelievable the pain that can be inflicted.  I still am very hesitant contacting him or discussing anything other than the mundane - better than it was, though, and very slowing improving.

As for the "talk" with your son, I vote NO.  If your son is similar to mine, then a heart-to-heart really will not occur; I expect that it will be perceived as a "lecture to a bad child".  In my case, the wedge would have been even deeper and wider.  You ARE "losing" him; but, in my opinion, the only way you can "save" your relationship is to "let him go" and pray that he "comes back".  I really believe that any intervention on your part will be perceived as interference.  Do keep in mind that everything (and I mean everything) you say to him will be retold to her and she will re-invent your motives, intent and even words.  He will not understand your point of view; only hers.  To use your metaphor - I know you are drowning; however, I feel if you "talk" to him, you will be held underwater by her.  At least, if you are "drowning and not held underwater", there is a chance that you might be saved by someone else.  In lay terms, I mean the person to "talk sense to your son" cannot be you.  It must be someone else (if you are lucky).  And, yes, you are a victim.   So sorry ... .

[Notwendy]

My vote is "no" to the talk as well. My favorite reference is the "drama triangle". If you appear in any way to be a threat to the relationship or a third person involved in having an opinion between the two of them, the tendency is for them to bond together and perceive you as the "persecutor".

My experience is from the perspective of a child of a BPD mother. As an adult, I "lost" my father to her. Maybe I didn't ever have him in the first place as she perceived me as the "black child". I was the one who stood up to her and anything I did that may have upset her, resulted in my father being angry. But as an adult, she painted me black to him when she was angry at me and he went along with her.

My father's family did not like my mother from the get go. I learned as an adult that he hardly saw them once he married my mother.

If there is a silver lining to this, my mother couldn't handle us kids when school was out and they gladly welcomed us to stay with them during these times. I am close to my father's family and so are my children.

The strength of the bond between my parents (BPD/Codependent) was a mystery to me- but it was strong. From the outside- it looked as if he was her victim. I saw him as the good guy and her as the one with the disorder. I could not understand how he allowed her to come between him and his family- his own mother- his own daughter. However, if my mother felt threatened, his response was to rescue her from anything or anyone.

Anything and everything I said to my father was reported to my mother. She listened in on our phone calls too.

I am sorry for your situation, and I agree that trying to "save" the relationship by talking to your son is likely to result in the two of them pushing you away. It may feel unnatural to step back and let go- get out of the triangle but I also think this may leave the possibility of a relationship open. This doesn't mean you cut off contact with him, but let him know you love him, and stay clear of their relationship.

One reason your son may be speaking like your DIL is because of enmeshment and poor boundaries. When my mother was angry at someone, my parents seemed to become closer- and share the same perspective. This seemed to have a bonding affect - instead of being angry at each other, they could be united in their anger at someone else.

The lessons and support here can help. If he is sounding like her, then the lessons can help you relate to him too.

[Betsyli]

Hello.So sorry to hear about your pain, Grandmag.

My son too is married to an ( undiagnosed) BPD woman for already 20 years and she cut him immediately from his friends and us parents.  She manipulated him at once so that he started to hate me and refuse everything I tried to do for him. She stopped contact a few times for a short period of time in these years ( and my son always told me " whatever you say, I shall always take her side". But I never said anything to her or about her, he just believes her lies). She cut her wrists to get him under pressure to send us away the first day we came to visit them in another country ( visas and all). Last time she cut contact was 14 months ago when I failed to help my son out of a difficult situation  ( they called me the last moment for help and I could not persuade his client to withdraw the  legal case. I am a pensioner, and I did all my best to try to get my son out of that situation.My son said then " temporary no

contact", but now he does not even answer my mails about how they are. Today is his birthday and he thanked my husband ( not his biological husband) and ignored me. I came to the conclusion that I lost my son and have to live with this. She will never leave him, both she and her parents are dependant on him financially. I really feel sorry for you and understand your pain. I grieve about mine.

[grandmag]

To all of you who replied to my last post: Thank you

   Sometimes in living through all this, I get stalled... .either confused or blindsided or manipulated or... .etc.etc.etc.

The talk with my son that my counselor advised, she suggested be started with saying I have been concerned about him. It was to have nothing to do with dil... .but to say to him how I feel when he has been treating me certain ways, leaving it open for both of us to talk.

   I have not tried, at least not yet. This weekend, there were a couple of things he helped me with, plus brought my grandkids for a sleepover (the first in over 2 months, the reason was to do with work for a pest extermination, not them). My son was what I call prickly, and I knew it wasn't the right time for a talk.

   He was to get with me about getting some things at the grocery that I cannot carry, and about beginning to get my belongings back here to be unpacked. I figure she got really uptight about him helping me over the weekend, because the response to my text was that they "would not be discussing it any time soon. They are busy" I feel this is another way of him being swayed by her, he has never let me down before.

   I am "crippled" I use a walker and my son has filled in when needed with things that are impossible for me physically.

   The sleepover was bittersweet. When the youngest went to bed, the older 2 said they wanted to talk to me. They did, venting for over an hour about all the wrongs at home. I am still grieving over their conversation.

   Sometimes I wonder if I will survive her illness, then I think about the kids and I am broken.

   The words "if only" have left my vocabulary a long time ago. When things get to this point, all I really can do is breathe, and pray. I found out they wanted me for as a babysitter for them than a sleepover for the kids, so she could drink with some friends. So... .feeling railroaded and used... .again... .

[Turkish]

It's a that you feel used and rail roaded, especially since you really do need some physical help sometimes.  Look at it this way though: you're likely the only healthy adult the kids have in their lives.  Even a little contact can go along way towards the kids stepping out of their dysfunctional reality at home. 

We have resources on the Co parenting board in the right margin.  Some of the material may help you help them.

Lesson 5: Raising Resilient  Kids When A Parent  Has  BPD

Much like the non disordered parent, you are in a position to possibly alienate,  even unintentionally since your son and DIL are also hurting you.  Listening and validating can go a long way,  however.

"Mom and Dad fight all of the time,  and we hate it! "

"I'm sorry that you have to listen to that.  I don't like it when people fight either. "

Etc... .

[Notwendy]

It is great that you were able to spend time with the kids and they feel they can talk to you. My father's family was a huge support to me- even these little things. They were a babysitter for us to get us out of mom's hair. But that was not our fault. Even the small amount of time I could spend with them made a large impact on me- because they loved me for me. Consider that, the way you feel is how the kids feel, and your love for them makes a difference.

Although it is wonderful when your son can help you, it may be best not to rely on him. Is there a way you can get reliable trusted help with things that are hard for you physically? Although it feels personal when your son does not help you, it isn't about you. It is about her- and his need to care for his family. She may demand most of his time and attention, and your son may be taking on more of the child care/household tasks/caretaking for her than you know.

In addition, the wife may see you as competition. This sounds absurd but, anyone who your son loves may be perceived as competition. My mother didn't like it when my father spent time with me.

The time spent with the kids is good though. My own children are closer to my father's side of the family than they are to my mother. This is because his family has a close relationship to me and is loving to them too.