Strategies to protect myself from his intense emotions

[Cat Familiar]

I realized recently that I've been at the mercy of pwBPD's intense emotions all my life. This sounds like a victim statement and I guess it is. When I was young, my report cards frequently described me as a "happy go lucky" kid. Over time, I became my mother's emotional caretaker and often her emotional punching bag. I was in a two decade long relationship with my first husband, another pwBPD. He was violent, adulterous, financially irresponsible and again, I was a punching bag, sometimes physically in addition to emotionally. I still feel "happy go lucky" but I've felt responsible for other's emotions for decades and I'm just now unravelling this mistaken idea.

My current husband is a good guy, but yet another pwBPD. He can be sardonic, sarcastic, moody, unpleasant, but he is basically a nice guy other than the personality disorder. I've learned how to stay out of the way of his emotional outbursts and not add fuel to the fire, but it still is upsetting to be around someone emotionally volatile. See my topic about "Perennial Grumpiness."

We had a hay delivery that went awry in a big way Friday afternoon. The truck and trailer ended up stuck on a rock next to our driveway and it wasn't until Monday night that the trailer, with a blown out tire, got hauled away along with the last of the hay, which was destined for another customer and spent the weekend stacked in the middle of our driveway.

All in all, it wasn't the disaster that my husband made it out to be. Yes, the delivery guy was flakey, it was a major clusterf*, the communication and followthrough sucked, but nobody got hurt, nothing got seriously damaged, and the worst was that our gravel driveway now retains some quarts of transmission fluid.

But to hear my husband tell it, "It totally ruined our weekend." On and on about how these guys were idiots. Yes, they plainly didn't listen to my admonition of not driving the 20 foot gooseneck trailer around the turnaround island at the top of our steep driveway. But things happen and they ultimately took care of the problem.

My husband was irritated at me that I didn't read the guy the riot act at his last phone call. I figure he got embarrassed enough, having to get several of his buddies to help him, getting reprimanded by the owner of the rig for overloading it and letting the young inexperienced guy drive, blowing out the tire due to overloading and nearly blowing the truck's transmission. Then he had to pay other guys to come deliver, so ultimately it was a learning experience for him (hopefully), but that's not my problem. The hay is nice and so is the price and I'll have him deliver to me next year, much to my husband's disapproval, but that's a year away.

So, that said, my problem is that I realize that being around my husband when he's wound up and pissed off, I get upset, even when using the tools and boundaries. Right now I have a cold, which I think is due to the stress of being around him and his moods for these last few days.

Fortunately he decided to drive to the coast to visit friends, so he's out of my hair for at least 24 hours. He's called several times and hasn't had much to say. I had nothing to say to him either and since I've been coughing, I quickly excused myself and got off the phone. (BPD push/pull? He was so eager to leave this morning that he left at 7:59 when he told me last night that he was leaving around 8. He didn't bother to wake me--I was sleeping in another room. I don't know if I should be insulted by that or not.)

So what I'm asking for, kind Family members, is: how do you cope with an upset spouse and not let it get to you? All input appreciated.

[formflier]

Few big thoughts.

I'm hearing that you want to protect yourself... .so this is in "boundary" territory.  We are not so much worried about his feelings.

Perhaps something along the lines of identifying his emotion first (perhaps directly ask... .be yourself... be direct but supportive)

So identify, validate and then identify your own emotion.  Say that it's different from his and that's OK.

Then drop it.

If his persistent stuff really starts to grate on you... .then go elsewhere.

I'll keep thinking on this. 

Perhaps even say "We can disagree and still have the hots for each other"  (wink and smile and smack on butt)

Thoughts?

FF

[ArleighBurke]

It does sound like a boundary issue. 

You can "hear" him complain for so long, then say "I can see you still feel very annoyed by that, and I understand why - it was a stupid avoidable error. But I don't want to waste any more of (our time / this weekend / my life) with it. If you want to keep talking about it then I'm going to go and do something by myself. But if you agree to not talk about it again, then I'd love if we could do X together".

Ball's in his court. You've validated, then stated your boundary. If he keeps going, you remove yourself.

[Notwendy]

I've experienced times like this where one event " ruins the entire weekend", or "ruins everything" even if other things went well. This is black and white thinking.

I think what has helped me is paying attention to my feelings during these things. They can be triggering because, as a kid, when Mom did this, we were likely to be blamed for it. I also have the tendency to feel responsible for other people's feelings.

Dealing with this took a lot of personal work- with a sponsor, with a T. Once our MC confirmed that I was not in danger ( of physical abuse) during these times, we took on the goal of how I could remain calm in the face of this emotional storm. This isn't the same as accepting abuse. One option is to remove myself. But if my H was angry at something that had nothing to do with me- like the truck you mentioned- the task was to manage my own emotions in the presence of this.

Ironically, this came down to my own inability to manage my emotions and reactivity.  Once I got better at doing this, the emotions of others had less effect on me. It came down to my own boundaries. I am very sensitive and perceptive of other people's feelings- that was probably good for us as kids- but now I need to realize that- what someone else is feeling is about them, not me.

I think we tend to not feel our feelings or they scare us. But in this situation, we can have the feeling, and it can pass. This kind of thing is aggravating, but we don't have to react. I think we can also recognize the times we are more vulnerable- tired, hungry, or like you mentioned, not feeling well. It is these times we need to have self care, caution.

People have different temperments. Your H may have a short fuse, and you don't. So a goal may be for both of you to have this personal space to deal with this. He may have his fits- but you can also remove yourself- walk away, go to another room. Make it about you- not him. "I understand that this is upsetting, but I need to go calm myself down".

[byfaith]

So what I'm asking for, kind Family members, is: how do you cope with an upset spouse and not let it get to you? All input appreciated.

I just try to listen and then I try to apply some validation. Many times I have to separate myself from the situation. I go work on a project or if I can go on a walk or a hike. I even find a reason to just go on a drive. I live in a very scenic mountain area so that is always nice.

[formflier]

I think there are perhaps two different questions here.

1.  How do "we" do this?  (so general advice for everyone)

2.  How does Cat Familiar best do this?

On the one hand, we all need to grow... .learn to use empathy, learn new relationship skills.  Nobody is letting anyone off the hook for that.

On the other hand, wed don't want to loose ourselves and become someone we are not to placate the emotions of a grown toddler. 

Cat seems to be a direct... .no nonsense type of person.  Struggles with SET and validation (like many of us) and I get the idea that her husbands response is not due to bad technique on Cat's part.  Many pwBPD don't want to be empathized with... .that's their choice.

So, I think Cat should actually focus on being more direct.  Instead of major changes, focus on slight nuance.

Ask a direct question.  How can I support you here?  if blather comes back... ."I didn't hear an answer to my question, I'm going to go do xyz and let you consider my question.  Please give me courtesy of answer."

Or potentially add... ."I'm hear to support you... ." (then rest of my answer above)

At end of the day you let them deal with it.

FF

[KateCat]

Cat, if you've arrived at the stage where you think "fortunately, he's out of my hair for 24 hours," then I wonder if you both wouldn't benefit from structural changes to your relationship.

He doesn't sound like the kind of guy who loved his profession so much that he would now be interested in being out of the house on a regular basis doing pro bono legal work in the neighboring community. (Or anything of that "get a life" variety.) He also sounds like someone who would be deeply wounded if you suggested that the two of you take needed space from each other by living in separate buildings on the property.

However, what other things might be real possibilities? I'm stumped, and sympathize with your plight, as you do want to stay married.

Well, maybe the alcohol issue. Is he still drinking? In the non-bizarro world, it's perfectly acceptable for one partner to decline to be exposed to the behaviors of a partner whose ongoing drinking has been identified as a problem. 

Does he understand that you are having difficulties with the relationship? Would he have an understanding of what that might eventually mean for him? If he's been divorced already, he probably does but may not want to face these concerns.

[Cat Familiar]

Wow! Thanks, everyone. Great replies. I've only got a few minutes now, but I'll be back later to respond more.

Yes, it's definitely boundary time. I brought this issue up in my monthly session with my psychologist. I'm pretty good at walking away from listening to his ranting, but it still triggers me due to FOO issues. I used to have the belief, and I even frequently said this to myself when I was in my twenties, that "I can't be happy unless the ones I love are happy." I thought somehow this was altruistic. Now I know it's codependent.

At risk of repeating myself because I didn't read my original post, one of my friends says about my husband that "he has a big aura," meaning that he really likes to stink up the place if he's upset and you better notice. At times he's asked me, "Aren't you upset?" and that it's a problem if I'm not.

For the next time this happens, I was planning a retort like "I don't see how it benefits me to be upset" but I realized that might in some minuscule way be invalidating. My therapist suggested saying "It's too hard on me to get upset. I value my health more" or something like that. She said it better, but that was the gist of it. I'll have to practice so that becomes a default response.

Definitely I can easily slide into feeling blamed. I am the one who has horses. For that reason I need hay. I'm willing to deal with these rednecks who are inadequately prepared (with an overloaded trailer and an underpowered truck) just to save a few bucks. If it weren't for me, we wouldn't have had this issue. In the past, I would have been triggered to feel guilty about the whole f*up, but nowadays I think, "Grow up, you whiney little boy. Sh!t happens. You've never done anything physical other than ride your road bike. You know nothing about living in the country. It will get taken care of. Nothing's damaged. No one's hurt. Get over it." Instead, I just smile (to myself) and say, "Yeah, it's a drag."

Often I don't think my husband wants me to know or understand his emotions. Possibly because of his evil narcissistic dad, but also due to years of hiding his emotions as an attorney. Although you can easily see the expression of them on his face. He's not a poker face like me. So when I probe him for how he's feeling, he often won't admit anything. And that's probably why validation sometimes doesn't work and why SET is frequently doomed to failure. Asking how to support him I think might be fruitful.

And yes, we have two separate structures on the property. I think of Frieda Kahlo and Diego Rivera. We are monogamous, yet we don't have sex. He's a night owl and I get up early. I spend much of my time, when I'm not here posting, outdoors. He spends nearly all his time indoors, reading, watching TV.

It's a shame, given that he could really help people doing pro bono work. His legal area of expertise is in land use law and there are so many non-profits that he could advise. He complains that he doesn't feel a part of the community, yet he is so penurious about giving of his abilities. On the other hand, he hated being a lawyer, so I do understand.

He has scaled back on his drinking. No recent sh!tfaced drunk episodes that I know of, although separate buildings and different bedtimes, so I can't be sure of that.

He has no clue about me struggling with the relationship. He has felt deeply wounded about the concerns I've expressed in the past about his drinking. It's very odd, but he's probably one of the five smartest people I've ever met, yet he has less self awareness than just about anyone I know. When he was moving in with me, he was going through old correspondence and found a letter from his first wife after she dumped him when they were in their early twenties. (She's an editor for the New York Times now.) Oh, and I'm wife number 4--that should have been a red flag for me, but the physical attraction overwhelmed my common sense at the time.

In her breakup letter, she stated that he had absolutely no ability to self reflect and see his part in their issues. Well, nothing's changed over the decades. Occasionally I'll get an apology but I've learned there's no point in confronting him about his behavior, because he's like a four year old, I'll just get, "You hate me" as a response, no matter how much I soften my comments.

[Cat Familiar]

FF, for some reason, due to the new update on this site, I can't access my messages, so I'll reply here.

I really get how having a sexual relationship would improve our lives. It's ironic because that was probably the best thing about the relationship to begin with. And yes, I quit my part because I was so disgusted by who he became with the drinking.

I miss the closeness and the warmth and you know. I do try to approach him and hug him and usually he is the one who pushes away, so I feel a bit rejected too. And there was an incident where he actually said that he "didn't trust" me and he couldn't be intimate with me.

So I've been warm and open and waiting for him to initiate something, which hasn't happened.

Those images of how disgusting he has been while drunk were seared in my mind and it's taken a long time for those memories to fade. Really it absolutely ruined my attraction to him. I was totally grossed out. I told him at the beginning of our relationship that this was a line in the sand for me. I had dealt with substance abuse with my first husband and no way was I going there again. He acted as though he understood, but you know, BPD.

Over time I've gotten over the bitterness and the anger I felt about how deceived I was. I really thought I was marrying my best friend who was a wonderful lover. Now I realize it was all an illusion. I can't be totally myself with him because, you know BPD, so I can't fully communicate with him like I would with a non. I can do that with my friends, but obviously it's not the same.

At this point, I'd be willing to have a sexual relationship again, knowing that our emotional relationship will always be limited by his mental illness. It's sad, but I've given up on the romantic fantasy that once I thought I had. I realize that there are flaws in most relationships, but on the other hand, there are great benefits to me in this one and I am getting to the place where I can overlook some of the limitations. It's a process... .

[KateCat]

I think of Frieda Kahlo and Diego Rivera.

Well, that explains a lot. 

[formflier]

Cat,

Good replies.  How can you "be yourself" (direct) and validate at same time.

When he does his "aura thing".  Acknowledge it.  " I can see you are upset".

He asks if you are... .less is more.  "Thank you for asking, no I'm not upset... .but I'm here for you even though we have different emotions."

Check your attitude with the use of the word "retort". 

You are here for him, but in same sentence you are clear that you are for yourself two.  Emotions are separate. 

Stay in your "direct" and "supportive" place.  He lives in world of retorts, slights, passive aggressive bs... .etc etc.

Thoughts?

FF

PS... .You've seen my other posts about "waiting" for a pwBPD to "lead" in a r/s... .How does that usually work out?

[Notwendy]

I'll share my thoughts about sex. Like you, emotions and menopause have affected my drive, but I have tried to keep this part of the marriage alive for many reasons. One is that my H tends to see any lack of interest as rejection. ( I mentioned in the past I could have morning sickness of pregnancy and he assumed it was rejection). His response to that was feeling like I did something to him- victim ,and he would respond by rejecting me back. I was not aware of how he was feeling- he didn't tell me.  I assumed he could see that being pregnant and throwing up affected my mood, but he didn't. I felt I was being rejected for no reason, got my feelings hurt and it was a downhill cycle.

I suspect your H's rejections are not really rejections but a means of reacting to his feeling rejected. Think , victim triangle here. He is victim, you are persecutor - the rejector- so his first response is to reject back. That hurts your feelings but it isn't about you, it is how he sees things.

I felt it was important to keep the sex connection because other connections were too easily broken down. Talking about feelings led to circular arguments. It is said that for men, sex is their main way of feeling connected. I think for us women, we like to talk, share emotions too. I thought that if sex wasn't an option, then his main way of connecting would not be there.

Sex is also a way of affirmation, feeling desired, and a lack of sex can feel like despair.

I think, since you are willing to have a sex life with him, you will need to initiate and don't be upset by the rejections. I don't mean force it. If he says no, then that is no. I mean, don't take it personally. Start by cuddling more, being snuggly. As he gains some confidence, and starts to feel less rejected, he may eventually go along with it, but it may take some effort on your part. I suspect he is feeling too rejected to try ( even if you didn't intend it to be that way. My H felt that way even if I didn't intend it. )

It also might improve his mood a bit.  

[formflier]

From a man's perspective.

Keep the message short and to the point, but there is a window of opportunity soon after sex where you can put some good messages in his head.

no idea how BPD relates to that, but I'm saying that is generally true.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

"I can see you are upset". Good phrase for me to keep in my back pocket. Thanks, FF. It's really funny to me to notice how oblivious I am to these niceties of common human behavior. I just grew up in an emotional desert in my FOO and even though I've tried to learn this stuff as an adult, and even went to grad school for a couple of years thinking I could be a therapist, it just doesn't come naturally. Thank goodness I realized that before I finished my degree!

One of my friends who is a disabled students' counselor at a community college once accused me of being Aspergers. I think it's because I modeled my dad, who was highly logical and I was appalled by my mom's emotional expression, not realizing until just a few years ago that she was textbook BPD. (When I was in grad school many years ago, borderlines were defined more by extreme behavior and I didn't realize that someone who was largely functional could be on the continuum until recent years.)

FF, again you've caught me with the word "retort." As you probably suspect, I can be rather fiery when I'm stirred up. At the same time, I'm also very strategic, so it's doubtful that anyone would see that passionate part of me because I seldom throw caution to the winds. But I don't back down once I've taken a principled stand that I've carefully examined. At the same time, I'm easy going, so it takes a lot to get me upset.

And I did get very upset by my husband's alcohol abuse, along with prescription drugs. On several occasions, I had to use all the skills I learned from my EMT program long ago to monitor him after I had found him unresponsive. In retrospect, I wish I had called 911 and he could have had the embarrassment of waking up in the hospital.

Then there were other times when he was so drunk that he changed from a very cultured and kind person into a demented weirdo, and worse of all, one who wanted to have sex with me. I tried on a couple of occasions but it was really creepy.

I tried to talk about these occasions, but that was before I knew about the BPD and it devolved into "You hate me" without him being accountable for his behavior. That, combined with feeling duped about his substance abuse, made me distance myself. And quite frankly, with the way I felt about him after that, to have sex with such a person, I would have felt like a prostitute. No thanks!

At this point, I no longer feel all that resentment. He's been trying to manage his alcohol use and he's been a much nicer human being. I truly can imagine having sex with him at some point. Yes, menopause can make it seem rather irrelevant, but it still can be a fun thing to do.

Thanks, everyone. Really good feedback! 

[byfaith]

from the FF rolodex... .You are important to me.  I used it today and it worked.


I did not want to ignore my wife but I was not sure what to say (text). I was getting blamed for things that were not my fault so MY default is to shut down or ignore

her: You're not even doing the calling. I know what it feels like when someone doesn't really care that much any more and this really feels like that to me.

me: Remember feelings dont always equal facts. Please lets call a truce right now. Work is really bad and i am stessed trying to get stuff done. I will call you during or right after lunch. Ok? You are important to me.

Her: Thank you Byfaith, that means a lot that you responded. I don't want to call a truce because I don't want it to be like we have to call one

it at least avoided escalation

[Cat Familiar]

You are important to me.

Good work, byfaith! These phrases are good to practice so that they're ready when needed. And we all know they will be needed!