Day 17 no contact

[Mr Orange]

As per the subject line, today is day 17 of no contact with my uBPDw who I've been separated from now for a little over 4 months.

Back around the middle of June we had a conversation via text where I pretty much gave her a bottom line for me that I needed to see some changing on her end in order for things to move forward with us. I've been doing individual counseling, which she has been positive over, but when we met face to face earlier in June and the question of what areas she needs to work on came up, she came up with the excuse of not knowing what I expect of her. So I came up with a list of 4 concrete things I would like to see addressed. Then it was that she didn't think these were things she needed to work on and they were just more things I don't like about her, etc, etc. So I was basically like, "well, we have nothing to talk about then".

A few days passed before my birthday came up. I knew she wouldn't wish me a happy birthday, and as predicted, she did not. She texted the next day saying she didn't text me because she didn't want to spoil my day and also she couldn't find me on facebook and guessed that maybe I had "unfriended her". I explained that I had deactivated my facebook to take a break from social media, and that I'm not that petty to unfriend her. Probably should have left that last bit off, but I have my weak moments I guess. Of course she latched onto that and went into a huge lecture on why was I implying that she suggested I was petty when she did not, blah blah. I quickly realized this was headed towards a big fruitless discussion. I felt like maybe she was trying to re-engage me in communication by taking the focus on something petty, thus bypassing the subject she doesn't want to address which is "the issues on her end". I acknowledged her statement that I don't understand her and that this has been made even more clear during this time of separation, and that I also feel she doesn't understand me either. Trying to do a better job validating because I think it is true that I don't understand her a lot of the time. I then told her I couldn't write anything further because I had to leave for work. That was our last communication.

Our longest period of no contact prior to this has been about 7 days, so this is quite remarkable. I understand given the ultimatum I laid out (unless she is willing to address some of her issues, then we have nothing to talk about) the no contact is reasonable. I guess I'm more here just venting the frustration. I want things to work out, but not at the expense of regressing right back to the way things were. If she never will address her issues then I can't see a future with her. But knowing that doesn't make this process any easier and I do have moments where I doubt myself. Perhaps insecurities creeping in, as well as the fact that I love this woman.

[Leonis]

I'm about a day behind your progress. My ex texted me in the middle of June as well, except she was the one that said how she was going to cut off contact with me forever. I forgot how many times she had said that before. So, at 16 days, this is probably the longest we've actually maintained no contact since the fallout in mid-April.

I think it's great that you've set clear boundaries about how you want to approach the situation. Needless to say, going NC is for your recovery, not so much for her to "find herself". Odds are, she'll probably not change.

[gotbushels]

I explained that I had deactivated my facebook to take a break from social media, and that I'm not that petty to unfriend her. Probably should have left that last bit off, but I have my weak moments I guess. Of course she latched onto that and went into a huge lecture on why was I implying that she suggested I was petty when she did not, blah blah.

I relate.

Our longest period of no contact prior to this has been about 7 days, so this is quite remarkable. I understand given the ultimatum I laid out (unless she is willing to address some of her issues, then we have nothing to talk about) the no contact is reasonable. I guess I'm more here just venting the frustration. I want things to work out, but not at the expense of regressing right back to the way things were. If she never will address her issues then I can't see a future with her. But knowing that doesn't make this process any easier and I do have moments where I doubt myself. Perhaps insecurities creeping in, as well as the fact that I love this woman.

Good job sticking to what you set out to do. 

Do you have an expectation for her to meet if she does reach out? Can she just give you lip service for a few weeks? Are you going to tell her what you expect or just observe if she meets it?

[Mr Orange]

Leonis,

I think it's pretty cool that you referred to the no contact stretch as "progress". I often find it difficult to look at it that way, but I do believe despite how hard it is, it is ultimately progress. It's taken 2 years to get to a place where I could really leave everything on the table and walk away if she doesn't change at all. Big ups to you for staying strong. And I totally agree that the odds are way stacked against her doing anything to change. One of my friends recently cautioned me when I told him we had not spoken in a couple of weeks and that I suspect reality may have hit for her. He's concerned that when the time rolls around where we can actually file for divorce, at the 11th hour she's going to feign change to keep me in the quicksand. Long enough for us to reconcile, move back in together, and cancel out the period of separation. I know she's capable of "behaving" because she had me pretty well fooled until we actually were married. Needless to say I'm trying to remain aware of faux change.

Gotbushels,

The lip service has been there for months, so she will have to demonstrate to me in some way that she is tangibly addressing the points I laid out. The main one is starting her own counseling. Saying she is looking into a counselor or similar partial efforts doesn't mean jack to me, at least in regards to things moving forward. I need to see some action. Amusingly, one of her most frequent phrases to me was "actions speak louder than words" when I would try and affirm her through encouraging words.

[Leonis]

He's concerned that when the time rolls around where we can actually file for divorce, at the 11th hour she's going to feign change to keep me in the quicksand. Long enough for us to reconcile, move back in together, and cancel out the period of separation.

Even though I can't be sure, I'm going to say this happened to me last August when my ex had an episode again right after we reconciled. We both wrote a letter and I mutually concluded that we should separate.

In a moment of weakness, we met later and got intimate and she told me how she just need to act mature about things, etc. Things dragged on for another 8 months, which included when she told me that she wanted to marry me. Then, stuff hits again... .bigger fallout.

[gotbushels]

The lip service has been there for months, so she will have to demonstrate to me in some way that she is tangibly addressing the points I laid out. The main one is starting her own counseling. Saying she is looking into a counselor or similar partial efforts doesn't mean jack to me, at least in regards to things moving forward. I need to see some action.

Good. Impressive  Seems fair. Maybe more than fair.

Amusingly, one of her most frequent phrases to me was "actions speak louder than words" when I would try and affirm her through encouraging words.

Great highlight. It still makes me ache. This would be a theme of a lot of the fights in my own relationship. Thank you for pointing this out.

[Mr Orange]

I hear ya Leonis. So you're left feeling like most likely this person will not be willing to seek help or change, and even if they do will you be able to decipher between genuine change and another put on? Scary to think about.

[rfriesen]

Amusingly, one of her most frequent phrases to me was "actions speak louder than words" when I would try and affirm her through encouraging words.

To echo gotbushels, this is just amazingly on point when it comes to my ex as well. I always took it upon myself to try to fix things when we went off the rails. I would write long emails about how I saw our problems and how we might move forward. I would talk and talk trying to get through to her. I would work especially hard to be fair and not put the blame on her. I would think about what we each had to do to move forward. And that's when she loved to hit me with the "actions speak louder than words" -- incredible how it only hits us after just how unfair that is. You know, she really was an expert manipulator, even if it was mostly instinctive and not coldly calculating. Actions? How about the action of always offering the olive branch, of trying to make sense of things, of suggesting things we could each improve, of offering a path forward? Sure was never an easy step to take after she had taken a flamethrower to our relationship. And the "action" she would offer in return -- telling me that I was just talking and not acting.

I don't know how it took me so long to see what was really so obvious -- she expected me to single-handedly fix every mess that came into our relationship, and then made me feel guilty and responsible when I obviously couldn't.

[Mr Orange]

I don't know how it took me so long to see what was really so obvious -- she expected me to single-handedly fix every mess that came into our relationship, and then made me feel guilty and responsible when I obviously couldn't.

^This all the way.

This is what I have come to realize. For a long time I allowed the "actions speak louder than words" to do exactly what it was intended to do, which was make me feel crappier about myself and in turn put further effort into fixing everything. As you pointed out, this is a fruitless endeavor as no one person can fix such a dysfunctional relationship.

It's now clear that she has been the ultimate hypocrite because after putting my own "action" to work by doing individual counseling and then asking the same of her, she balked. So actions I guess speak louder than words so long as they don't involve her taking action. There's always something in the fine print when it comes to pwBPD. Always an asterisk, a footnote, a but.

[Lilyroze]

Amusingly, one of her most frequent phrases to me was "actions speak louder than words" when I would try and affirm her through encouraging words.

 I would write long emails about how I saw our problems and how we might move forward. I would talk and talk trying to get through to her. I would work especially hard to be fair and not put the blame on her. I would think about what we each had to do to move forward. And that's when she loved to hit me with the "actions speak louder than words" -- incredible how it only hits us after just how unfair that is. You know, she really was an expert manipulator, even if it was mostly instinctive and not coldly calculating. Actions? How about the action of always offering the olive branch, of trying to make sense of things, of suggesting things we could each improve, of offering a path forward? Sure was never an easy step to take after she had taken a flamethrower to our relationship. And the "action" she would offer in return -- telling me that I was just talking and not acting.

I don't know how it took me so long to see what was really so obvious -- she expected me to single-handedly fix every mess that came into our relationship, and then made me feel guilty and responsible when I obviously couldn't.

 This is what broke my heart with my best friend, I truly loved and we had so much in common. Same financial mindset, political, spiritual/religion, thoughts on children and raising, and were there for each other through many things. Laughter and fun, and heart to hearts all the time. This was truly my best friend in so many ways and more. Very few misunderstandings mainly because we had so much in common. Alas though when some hurtful things were done, or hidden from me a couple times, it really hurt my heart.

Trying to understand, be the bigger one, but at same time have my sense of self and boundaries would write heartfelt letters, texts, calls, taking most on myself when I wasn't the one doing. To silence or anger or rage at me for " misunderstanding". Even then would always be the one to apologize, we would get right back to where we were, which was fine. But I can't be the only one any-more to put our relationship first. When other people online came first, crazy family antics ( which was fine, and part of the persons caretaking... .until they were doing everything for these people who could function away from them), and a time I really needed the help, friendship and support, not the underhanded things. Really stung. I was not the one to betray ( even a betrayal of putting me down to others when I was handling my whole life myself while they did everything for a single over 40 yr old that who just wouldn't) now the silent treatment.

I was the one to use the actions speak louder then words now. Because love is an action verb, yes we could both laugh, have fun. But at the end of the day if I am the only one showing when it comes to problems with us, being the one to talk through it or work through it. I would never give the silent treatment to someone if I hurt them, was in wrong, or they came to me with heart-felts. Or frankly if I let them down for a couple years with my care-taking capable adults for the few things they needed for a future business plan.

The thing that puzzles me, is this person has a very dysfunctional family and acknowledges it. But is willing to bend over backwards, then get stressed not realize it. Blame me, when I am out of picture, except to laugh and have fun with. I brought my problems to table but when they gave me solutions implemented them.

 They always said family doesn't bother me, but would get stressed at me, mad at me because they couldn't with them( and never see it). Here I just needed an ear and help with a plan to stop the abuse I was having here from my stbex, but taking care of all my life myself.

Sometimes I wish I was like these ones on here referred to where everything was done for me, people turned themselves inside out, and I just marched on. Like his one relative ( everything is taken care of, paid for, and all they have to do is march around or make scenes... .and feed a pet). Never mind do love being loving, kind, independent and my happy self. I wouldn't want to be a nightmare to someone, or hurt like these people do ( aware or unaware). I say aware as they do seem to know some people not to pull this crap with.