Overdue Check-In

[freemanstrut]

I've been needing to post here for a couple of months, but my thoughts have been in chaos and I haven't even been sure where to begin.

I'm four months out from the breakup today.  3 and a half of NC.

After two months of no contact, my ex posted that she was moving back across the country to within an hour and change of me.  That she wanted me back and that she loved me, that she'd never give up, that she knew that part of me misses her too.

So she moved back across the country an hour and change away with an ex of hers.

Shortly before she left her home state for the one next to mine, I sent her an email saying, look, you are not welcome here.  If you show up at my doorstep, unwelcome and unbidden, I am calling the police, who I have warned that you might show up.  I informed her that my correspondence was solely to establish for legal purposes that I had warned her to stay away from me - I'd deleted every bit of correspondence from and with her, though I did not mention that - and that my email did not constitute any interest in receiving any form of communication from her.

Within 4 days of her arrival in the area, a friend of mine in that city messaged me, revealed that he'd been talking to my ex, and asked if it'd help me get over it if he ___ed her.  I was furious - at the lack of consideration, at knowing how weak he was, at how he gave in to what was obviously an attempt to hurt me.  This friend had told me often and loudly that I needed to be rid of my ex - and four days after she gets there, he's crumbling.

Weak little b___.

I called him an idiot for letting her play him.  I told him not to, but I a) didn't believe he would be truthful, as he's been shady with my sloppy seconds before, and b) refuse to live with the doubt in him and in what they might have, and probably did or will do.

I took 45 minutes to mull my options over.

He was a very thirsty bro.  He'd been shady about my sloppy seconds before.  I always knew that if something was going to cause us to stop being friends, that it would be a woman.  I cut off all communication without a word.

I have no room in my life for "friends" I need to doubt or people who enable my ex to hurt me.

About a month after that she was off on a trip to Hawaii to meet some guy she met through the same internet game we met through.  One of her current projects.  I really, really wanted to warn him about her, but I restrained the urge.

She got back a week ago.

My thoughts have been in chaos.

For the first few months after the breakup, our relationship seemed like the memory of another man.  Like an unpleasant dream I had woken up from.  I was grateful for it.

But in spite of all the horrible ___ she's done, I still think of her.  The memories of the good times have come back.  Of endless hours with limbs and fingers entwined.

I still hope she is getting healthy, even though I know she is not.  I still feel the urge to help or "save" her gnawing at me.  She always puts exactly enough effort into looking like she's getting better to give hope of a better future, while constantly sabotaging herself in the present.

I miss feeling like it was her and I against the world.  In reality, it was her against me as I tried desperately to stabilize her and to prevent her from pulling me down with her.

Her birthday was last weekend.  I spent the week before it with my head swirling with thoughts of her.  The first wrong and intrusive thought was, well, I'll just unblock her number for her birthday.  I'd let her call me for her birthday.  It took no more than a minute after having that thought to realize how stupid it was - that either way,  I would be disappointed, either by her hurting me willingly or otherwise, or by her silence. 

Knowing this to be folly, still the thought lingered in my head.

The next thought was, I'll just send her "Happy birthday."  Two words. 

The part of me that still loves her rationalized it as a token of good will and well wishes.

The part of me that despises her wanted to throw her thoughts into chaos.  To refuse to let her push the thought of me and of what we had to the dark corner of her mind where she banishes her guilt and shame.  To remind her of what her dishonesty and weakness cost her.  To tear open old wounds.

Half of me desperately wants to save her from herself.

The other half of me wants to finish the job her alcoholic mother and indifferent father started and break her.

I know I couldn't help but mistreat her if we ever got back together.  I've told her as much.  The only way I would ever trust her would be if she were literally chained up when not in my presence.  I would make her my dog.

She sounded game for it when I told her that just after our breakup.  I'm not self-destructive enough to try.

I'm not even attracted to her anymore.  She puts no value on herself and she has defiled her body in almost every conceivable way.  It disgusts me to think about what she has done and where she has been.  To think about how she lives her life.

But that just makes me want to save her from herself.

I'm not sure if I feel better writing this.  But my thoughts are more ordered now.

[freemanstrut]

-crickets-

[steelwork]

freemanstrut, congratulations on getting this far in your detachment. If JQ were here, he'd offer you a chip of some sort.

Four months is early days for many of us, so consider that. It sounds like you controlled your impulse to contact your ex with some very realistic assessments of the pros/cons, which seems to me like evidence that you're moving forward.

I'm not even attracted to her anymore.  She puts no value on herself and she has defiled her body in almost every conceivable way.  It disgusts me to think about what she has done and where she has been.  To think about how she lives her life.

But that just makes me want to save her from herself.

This is interesting. You've been able to sort of remove her from the formula, or to remove what might resemble any kind of healthy attraction, and you're left with "I want to save her from herself." That right there is the desire you can concentrate on.

Where does it come from? Here are a few questions:

What would it mean to save her from herself?

Are "her" and "herself" different people, since one can be saved from the other?

Can you think of other people you've wanted to save from themselves?

What would it do for you to be able to save her from herself?

[freemanstrut]

Thanks Steelwork.

As to where it comes from, a lot of it is empathy for someone who is out of control and doesn't know how to govern their life.  I went through a brief phase in my late teens/early 20s where my life had imploded and I was doing every drug I could get my hands on to remove myself from feelings of worthlessness and suicidal ideation, which had been present throughout adolescence, but really reached a fever pitch in this time.

I have first hand experience with the kind of self-loathing and desperate need to escape that my ex experiences.  I was never as bad as she is, though. 

When my ex and I got together, it was understood by both of us that we had unresolved psychiatric issues to resolve and that we wanted to work on them together. 

I kept up my end of the deal.  I got into therapy and stuck with it.  After 20 years of misdiagnosis and mismedication, I was finally correctly diagnosed as Bipolar II, and successfully medicated for it.

My ex flailed about.  I successfully diagnosed her condition after a conversation with a friend about her symptoms, and the diagnosis was later confirmed by at least one professional.  Only when our relationship was in crisis - crises that she inevitably caused - did she ever show any initiative towards self improvement.

I need to hold on to my anger about this.  This, like in so many other ways in our relationship, was an area where promises were made, I upheld my end of the bargain, and she did not.  I understand how hard it is to deal with an unknown diagnosis, years of mental illness and instability, and to get treated, because I did it while I was with her and while she sat on her ass.

I have experienced feelings and crises both existential otherwise that are similar to what she endures.  I feel that what I learned to help me deal with those crises could help her, if she would listen, or was capable of acting on it.

I'm an ENFP.  I love to teach and nurture and guide and inspire.  I empathize for her psychological problems and understand _some_ of her symptoms.  The version of herself mirroring me was so bright and enthusiastic and charismatic - with a horrible, malign spirit inside her that occasionally took control of her.  It took me a long time to internalize that someone with BPD is both the person that loves us dearly and the horrible dissociated, split black, or shame-spiraled borderline seemingly bent on hurting themselves, all they love, and all who love them for completely incomprehensible reasons.

At first, she was someone who inspired me to want more for myself and for us.  Then she became someone who forced me to grow stronger and harder because I had to to survive and to keep us afloat.  I was barely skating by before she moved in with me, and over a year she contributed under $200 to her upkeep by the sweat of her own brow.  I had to learn to assert myself constantly - through every whine for unnecessary luxuries, constant requests for more pot, to do another drug together as a bonding experience, to bring her to an environment likely to trigger a relapse. 

I had to become harder.  There are benefits to it.  I'm much more determined in my actions, I've been fixing a ton of problems in my life I've let accumulate over years of my own erratic behavior.  But I find it hard to trust now.  My walls have become thick in a way they have not since I was a teenager, and I do not welcome it.

---

What would it mean to save her from herself?

To ensure she has the tools to regulate her emotions and impulsive behavior.  To receive enough counseling - whatever the hell that is - to unravel years of dissociation and trauma.  To ensure a support network is in place for her and that she is in an environment where she simply cannot find any means of intoxication for at least a year, maybe two or three.

Even if I had a magic wand and tens of millions of dollars, there is no part of this treatment plan that my ex could not or would find some way to ruin so hard it'd leave an impact crater.  By my estimate based on stories I have read about borderlines, accounting for source and bias... .generously, she is in the lowest 25% of borderlines  if assessed by ability to function, integrate with society and form healthy relationships.

I am rather certain she will not die of natural causes.  Overdose, health problems brought on by substance use, suicide, murdered by some stranger she ran off with, STDs - she puts no value on herself, and so no harm she brings on herself has meaning.

What hurts is when I think of those potential outcomes.  What hurts is when I remember the good times - how loving she was.  How she craved my affection and attention.  How dedicated to me and us she was - when she could be, anyway.  Her bright blue eyes and dazzling smile.  Her warmth and the perfect way her body fit against mine.  And then I think about the kind of dumb ___ she is inevitably doing right now.  I think about those potential outcomes.  And it hurts.

Her and herself are not different people.  She is the same person, both filled with hope and the certain and self-fulfilling knowledge of her inevitable failure.  She is simultaneously caring and the most selfish person I have ever met.  The highs were high, and the lows were gutwrenching.

But I deserve someone who loves herself.  I deserve someone who can control themself.  I deserve someone who respects me.  And I deserve someone who loves me _all_ of the time.

---

What would it do for me to be able to save her from herself?

It would mean I wouldn't have to worry about her killing herself, slowly or quickly.  To know that she is still hurting everyone around her, and that it's never going to stop.

It would be a weight off my back to not think about those things.

But I have to accept who she is, and I have to accept that I cannot change her or stop it.

[joeramabeme]

free man, that is an awful lot to deal with and sorry that she seems to be stalking you.  I can feel the inner conflict you have in your words.  I am wondering though, what has taken you so long to get back to here and why have you left the board to begin with? 

From reading your post, I would guess that your personal dynamics that got you involved with her in the first place are still at work.  Though she may be very unstable and you see yourself as a rescuer nothing much will change in our futures unless we take a look at ourselves. 

What would it do for me to be able to save her from herself?

You arent that good, none of us are.  Given where you are with your own chaotic thinking; have you asked what it will take you to save yourself from that?  Are you familiar with the book Stop Care Taking the Borderline? There is a lot of information for people that feel compelled to rescue others. 

JRB 

[idontcareanymore]

Dude, were we dating the same chick? I can relate to so much of your posts here it's uncanny. Thanks so much for sharing your experiences it's helping me tremendously and encouraging me to post mine in hopes I can do the same for somebody else. It's like you're typing my thoughts so I don't have to. I am only 2 weeks into NC, but can relate so freaking much to even the morbid thoughts of chaining her up to trust her. Our minds think some pretty crazy things. Mine told me to put her "on lockdown" that she likes to be submissive and would respect someone who calls her on her ___. Well, I got the calling her out part down pat, but could never bring myself to babysit her like the forever-5-years-old part of her desires.

[steelwork]

I have experienced feelings and crises both existential otherwise that are similar to what she endures.  I feel that what I learned to help me deal with those crises could help her, if she would listen, or was capable of acting on it.

... .

I'm an ENFP.  I love to teach and nurture and guide and inspire.  I empathize for her psychological problems and understand _some_ of her symptoms.  The version of herself mirroring me was so bright and enthusiastic and charismatic - with a horrible, malign spirit inside her that occasionally took control of her.  It took me a long time to internalize that someone with BPD is both the person that loves us dearly and the horrible dissociated, split black, or shame-spiraled borderline seemingly bent on hurting themselves, all they love, and all who love them for completely incomprehensible reasons.

Yes, a lot of what's going on in her head is just never going to make sense to you. Incomprehensible.

You've been through a lot, you want to reach other people with the wisdom you’ve earned the hard way, and it's hard to sit by and watch someone throw away her life.

I just want to suggest that each one of us is on our own path. Even if you had overcome BPD rather than Bipolar II (which as you said can be medicated, while BPD cannot, and in that way is a much harder row to hoe), that still doesn't mean what worked for you would work for her. You don’t have all the answers for her. You really don’t. No one but her can do the work she needs to do.

What would it mean to save her from herself?

To ensure she has the tools to regulate her emotions and impulsive behavior.  To receive enough counseling - whatever the hell that is - to unravel years of dissociation and trauma.  To ensure a support network is in place for her and that she is in an environment where she simply cannot find any means of intoxication for at least a year, maybe two or three.

How would you ensure she had the tools to regulate her emotions and behavior? Didn't you already put the time in encouraging her to get counseling? How would you unravel years of dissociation and trauma, even if she presented herself to you with meek submission?
 

What would it do for me to be able to save her from herself?

It would mean I wouldn't have to worry about her killing herself, slowly or quickly.  To know that she is still hurting everyone around her, and that it's never going to stop.

It would be a weight off my back to not think about those things.

But I have to accept who she is, and I have to accept that I cannot change her or stop it.

Sigh. Yes. Even more so, now that you are not in a relationship with her; now that she is someone you say you don’t even like. It sounds like you gave it your best shot.

But I deserve someone who loves herself.  I deserve someone who can control themself.  I deserve someone who respects me.  And I deserve someone who loves me _all_ of the time.

Yes, you do. We all do.

[freemanstrut]

"free man, that is an awful lot to deal with and sorry that she seems to be stalking you.  I can feel the inner conflict you have in your words.  I am wondering though, what has taken you so long to get back to here and why have you left the board to begin with?"

I'm just getting back from the bar, so forgive me for any kneejerk comments I might make in this or any immediately following post.

As for what took me so long to get back to the board... .My internal monologue was a wordless howl.  Takes a while to boil that down into something that can register as measured communication.  I pride myself on communicating accurately and succinctly, and that is something I can not do with hot blood.  In posting here as in with many things, the best thing is often to walk away until chaos congeals into something that can be hammered into shape.

"From reading your post, I would guess that your personal dynamics that got you involved with her in the first place are still at work."

Absolutely.  The part of me that wants to save others is still very much alive, in spite of walls, cynicism, trust issues, and anger towards my BPDex.

"You arent that good, none of us are."

That doesn't stop me from wanting to be that good, or stop me from thinking that that kind of goodness is totally worth pursuing.

---

idontcareanymore... .your wounds are fresh.  my ex was all about me putting her on lockdown too.  but as much as they crave it, that kind of structure will only goad them to rebel against it.  even if it's for their own good, even if they know it's the right path, even if they know that it's the only way... .they will burn it down because the thought of it succeeding is as terrifying as being abandoned is.  you are not their psychologist or detective.  no functional relationship would require you to be one.  i know you still want to be one.  while this pain is still fresh you need to write down a list of lies and grievances.  when you feel weak, you need to be able to pull it up to dispel the fleeting thoughts of how good it was when it was good.  earlier today reading through my post history helped me a lot to step outside of savior-freemanstrut and to get back to my base.  posting here has never made things harder for me, although i recognize that getting there can be hard.

you're right that it isn't our job to babysit.  it's not our job to provide the motivation for them to get therapy and get better.  it's not on us to provide the structure and consequences necessary to ensure a healthy life.  but it doesn't stop us from wanting to try to help.  to provide counsel and aid.  to encourage and nurture them.  the aid we seek to provide too often enables the borderline, and instead delays the kind of epiphany necessary to truly grow and develop.

it feels like nothing but rock bottom can serve as their teacher.  i've already passed and come back from what i considered rock bottom.  that others could recklessly swan-dive into worse and think nothing of the consequences barely occurred to me.

"I just want to suggest that each one of us is on our own path. Even if you had overcome BPD rather than Bipolar II (which as you said can be medicated, while BPD cannot, and in that way is a much harder row to hoe), that still doesn't mean what worked for you would work for her. You don’t have all the answers for her. You really don’t. No one but her can do the work she needs to do."

Abso-___ing-lutely.  Knowledge of part of her symptoms, 2/7 or 2/9 or whatever, is nothing compared to the full on borderline experience.  I don't get that kind of disordered thinking and I'm never going to. 

"How would you ensure she had the tools to regulate her emotions and behavior?"

Oh, this is flight of fancy stuff, and if I in any way indicated otherwise it is my fault in communicating.

"It sounds like you gave it your best shot."

Sho nuff.

[freemanstrut]

Writing this really helped me.  I've climbed up out of my funk and I'm feeling energized and certain of my purpose again.  Thank you all for your thoughts and comments.