Feeling so much guilt - how to stop that?

[eprogeny]

I've come to realize I feel guilty - responsible - for the chaos my BPDexgf has been in for the last few years.  Whatever symptoms she had before we began our romantic relationship, I know they were not what they've since become.  

For the first year I knew her she was nothing like how she's been these last 3 years - and our mutual friends who knew her long before I met her say the same thing.  So, I know her BPD didn't "fully manifest" or whatever the right term is... .until I came along.  Not until she fell in love with me and then wigged out about how she felt.  She's never been "normal" again.

Logically, I understand she had some symptoms before I met her.  I also know for a fact that she was managing her life pretty well back then compared to now.   She was 20 when we met, she's 24 now.  If today she's in chaos, then by comparison back then she only had minor struggles.  

If I recall correctly, she first self-harmed when she was 18 (based on what she's told me).  She also told me at the age of 19 she worried she might be bipolar due to her mood swings so tried to talk to her parents about it - and was dismissed with a "don't be silly".  But considering her age that very well could be attributed to "teenage angst", I suppose... .but probably makes more sense that it was the beginning stages of her BPD... .yet, even as messed up as she may have been back then she was at least not as bad as she's been for the last 3 years.  Literally she was consistently "okay enough" before me, and is just pure chaos since me.

I feel so responsible for that.  I feel like I could have done something differently to prevent it from manifesting so harshly... .or that I could have done something differently to get her into therapy instead of leaving it alone after she chose not to go when I first tried to get her help.

I don't know.  I just... .I realize I've felt compelled to fix what I broke, I think.  

Only problem is, I know I can't fix this. I just wish I could find a way to forgive myself for breaking her. :/

[VitaminC]

Do we really have the power to break other people, eprogeny?

We can maybe help things that are in someone to surface - I think that's what a lot of us 'nons' experienced in our relationships with pwBPD. We, as nons, are here trying to 'fix' ourselves, which really just means getting to understand our own needs and reactions better.

Can we fix other people? You say yourself that you don't believe that. Neither do I.  I also think that no more than fix them, can we break them. We don't have that much power.

In the end, and I know you know this yourself, we can only work with whatever tools and skills we have at our disposal at a particular time. We learn as we go and do.  We hopefully don't make the same moves again and again, especially if we've determined they did not serve us or a relationship or the other.

This might be a good time to examine that guilt you are feeling. What expectations do you have of yourself as a friend and partner. Are there different degrees or are there completely different things?

The other thing is that the disorder itself goes through phases, so whatever way she is now, from your perspective, may have less to do with your relationship and be far more attributable to other factors within her or her life.

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't know.  I just... .I realize I've felt compelled to fix what I broke, I think.  

You didn't break it epro, you triggered it.  Order becomes disorder in a child's development in the first few years of life, although significant traits of a personality disorder might not manifest for a long time, and mental health professionals won't diagnose anyone with a personality disorder until they're at least 18.  Another factor is the late teens and early adulthood are a time of intense changes, for anyone, and someone with traits of a personality disorder that weren't readily apparent when they were younger might just exhibit them more intensely in that stage.

The traits of the disorder are triggered by intimacy, and maybe you were the one who got the closest, so she felt the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment more intensely than she ever had with you, and she responded how she responded, somewhat predictable if she's a borderline.  That could be considered a good thing on a couple of levels: you did in fact get close, and her reaction was such that now it's obvious she could use some help and just might get it.

And I don't know about you, but in my relationship I was to blame for everything, it had to be that way, a handy way for my ex to avoid taking responsibility for whatever, which would hurt too much.  Could your current mindset be an offshoot of that?

[eprogeny]

Do we really have the power to break other people, eprogeny?

Oh, I think we do in some ways.  In this case I know - I know - I didn't actually break her.  I knew it when I saw her breaking, to be honest.  No one reacts to intimacy like she did unless something is already very wrong. 

It was why I began stepping back, because I knew she needed help.  But she's been hurting beyond my comprehension ever since then, and I cannot feel like it isn't my fault despite knowing it's not. 

We can maybe help things that are in someone to surface - I think that's what a lot of us 'nons' experienced in our relationships with pwBPD. We, as nons, are here trying to 'fix' ourselves, which really just means getting to understand our own needs and reactions better.

Yes, I agree.  I wholeheartedly believe she and I had a real chance to address our core wounds that we sought to heal with each other.  I chose to heal, she chose to run.  And because we didn't know it at a conscious level we were never able to end up anywhere else but here.

Can we fix other people? You say yourself that you don't believe that. Neither do I.  I also think that no more than fix them, can we break them. We don't have that much power.

No, we can't do either of those on our own.  But we can help to fix or to break them, don't you think?  Perhaps if she hadn't loved me as much as she did - if she had a kind of love for me like she does for my replacement, then maybe I could have helped with more than exposing her core issues.  I don't know.  I don't think I will ever know.  And, to be honest, I think I'm arriving at a place where I'm not going to ever want to know.

This might be a good time to examine that guilt you are feeling. What expectations do you have of yourself as a friend and partner. Are there different degrees or are there completely different things?

My expectations for myself are to be a support, a shoulder, someone to help share the load.  That requires me to be honest, vulnerable, and accepting of the other person.  And I hold myself to the standard of making sure I ask myself if I'm doing those things - or if I'm not, and am unhappy, whether I want it to be different or if I want it to be over.

With my ex, I've wanted it to be different for a long time.  I don't think I want that anymore.  I think I just want it over.  I'm just not willing to take another ride on the Merry-Go-Round-of-Doom.  She's worth it, but her BPD isn't.  Yet, I do want things to be different for her.  I want to leave her better than I found her, not worse - and I don't think that's happened. 

It's really hard to know I've brought such detriment to someone's life - especially someone for whom I've cared so much.  I'm not sure what I could have done differently, except to have known about her BPD sooner, but we learn what we learn when we learn it and I can't change that. 

The other thing is that the disorder itself goes through phases, so whatever way she is now, from your perspective, may have less to do with your relationship and be far more attributable to other factors within her or her life.

Understood.  Because I didn't understand the BPD issue for so long, I was constantly unhappy and annoyed by the way I was being treated while she would tell me how much I mattered.  My relentlessness to "save" what good we still had between us - to find a mutual resolution to whatever the heck had gone wrong - only made it worse for both of us.

Knowing what I know now, much would have been very different.  Somehow, though, I do think we'd have ended up right here anyway.  So, on that score, I can't say you're not right.  Her BPD is what it is and it has nothing to do with me, not really.  I know that.  It just doesn't make it feel any better.

I'm not hurting because of where we ended up, but I feel guilty as all get out.  I've nearly forgiven her for everything, I just need to figure out how to forgive myself.

[eprogeny]

You didn't break it epro, you triggered it.

Yes. Good distinction.  I triggered it.  We ended up paying the price for the crime of falling in love. 

Somehow doesn't quite make it feel any better.

The traits of the disorder are triggered by intimacy, and maybe you were the one who got the closest, so she felt the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment more intensely than she ever had with you, and she responded how she responded, somewhat predictable if she's a borderline.

Yes, that's pretty much how it went.  She didn't know how to describe it so we didn't have any real understanding of why she was so distraught - all I ever knew was what she said which was "I can't handle how I feel".  What she meant I never knew until long after she'd found a way to shut me out of the emotional intimacy, too.   

That could be considered a good thing on a couple of levels: you did in fact get close, and her reaction was such that now it's obvious she could use some help and just might get it.

Maybe.  I hope she does.  I only know I think I'd rather never hear from her again than to think she'll get to  recovery and want want to repair all the damage between us.  I don't think I would deal well with that.

And I don't know about you, but in my relationship I was to blame for everything, it had to be that way, a handy way for my ex to avoid taking responsibility for whatever, which would hurt too much.  Could your current mindset be an offshoot of that?

She never outwardly blamed me for anything other than making her feel like crap every time I tried to get an explanation out of her for the actions she took.  I can't speak to whatever blame she laid on me without saying so.  If I had to guess, she's probably decided all our problems were because I was the wrong person for her and just wouldn't let go.

For all I know she's right.  Maybe I never was the right person for her.  And while it's true I didn't let go, that's because she kept asking me not to.  If she'd ever sat me down to explain she thought I was the wrong person for her, I'd have let go just fine.  Our problem was that she couldn't ever say that - she just kept not explaining anything and asking me - begging me - not to give up on her or us.  All that did was make everything worse until I finally just couldn't take it anymore.

The only sad thing in my head about it is that I can't know - and probably never will know - whether I was legitimately not the right person for her, or if that was just a lie she told herself because her BPD symptoms manifested so severely that she simply chalked it up to what was easier to believe.  It's a sad thought, but it isn't one that plagues me anymore.  The only thing that does is this feeling of responsibility for how messed up her life has been ever since that point.

[VitaminC]

I wholeheartedly believe she and I had a real chance to address our core wounds that we sought to heal with each other.  I chose to heal, she chose to run.  And because we didn't know it at a conscious level we were never able to end up anywhere else but here.

I do know what you mean. We were speaking about Harville Hendrix already a while back, weren't we?
That notion of addressing each other's core wounds... .

Can I say something that just (re)occurred to me? My ex-husband is an amazing guy, who saw through all my defenses and pretenses pretty much immediately. He knew me, and I him. Absolutely. Our core wounds were different, but we each instinctively got each other's and loved each other's tightest, nastiest little nub of childhood wound.  I don't know know how else to put it.   Nothing whatsoever that I've revealed or figured out since joining this site would surprise him.  All of it is something he has, at one point or another, and always gently and with love and admiration spoken to, held, named, and cherished.

But here's the thing, because I myself could not abide that compacted little nut of pain at my core, no matter how accepting or loving or wonderful he was, it could never be dissolved or even loosened.

My point is that seeing it and accepting it in a loving relationship is surely the thing that would address that wound. You would think. 

But it never did. And even now, when we are friends and I speak far more openly than I ever could in the past, and the conditions are still right, even now this is no healing balm. Not really.

I still, at the core of me, kind of hate myself. And that is why my relationship with my BPD ex was far more beneficial and felt far more 'real' in some sense. Hatred is something I can understand and believe. That kind of completely accepting love? Nope.

Why do you say you had a real chance to address each other's core wounds? Can you say more about that?

Knowing what I know now, much would have been very different.  Somehow, though, I do think we'd have ended up right here anyway. 

I think I know what you mean. But why do you think that?

[fromheeltoheal]

You didn't break it epro, you triggered it.

Yes. Good distinction.  I triggered it.  We ended up paying the price for the crime of falling in love.  

Somehow doesn't quite make it feel any better.

It might alleviate some of the guilt though.  What if your motives were pure, you just wanted to love this girl and wanted the best for her, although getting close and becoming intimate with a borderline will trigger the disorder, and you didn't know that going in.  Not taking any responsibility for her reaction is legitimate, although I understand it still hurts.

And I don't know about you, but in my relationship I was to blame for everything, it had to be that way, a handy way for my ex to avoid taking responsibility for whatever, which would hurt too much.  Could your current mindset be an offshoot of that?

For all I know she's right.  Maybe I never was the right person for her.  And while it's true I didn't let go, that's because she kept asking me not to.  If she'd ever sat me down to explain she thought I was the wrong person for her, I'd have let go just fine.  Our problem was that she couldn't ever say that - she just kept not explaining anything and asking me - begging me - not to give up on her or us.  All that did was make everything worse until I finally just couldn't take it anymore.

The only sad thing in my head about it is that I can't know - and probably never will know - whether I was legitimately not the right person for her, or if that was just a lie she told herself because her BPD symptoms manifested so severely that she simply chalked it up to what was easier to believe.  It's a sad thought, but it isn't one that plagues me anymore.  The only thing that does is this feeling of responsibility for how messed up her life has been ever since that point.

The right person for a borderline would be the perfect attachment, someone who allows a borderline to feel whole and complete and doesn't trigger the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment.  Since the line between those two is always moving, balancing it is impossible and leads to the intense and unstable interpersonal relationships that is a trait of the disorder.  Plus, navigating that puts all the focus on the borderline, and it's natural after a while to wonder where's mine?  It also reiterates why the title of the book I Hate You Don't Leave Me is so perfect.

[babyducks]

Hi eprogeny,

What I have learned from my experience is how much I underestimated the seriousness and severity of the illnesses my partner dealt with.   My partner was diagnosed as both Bipolar 1 and BPD.   She was on medication, she had a very active and committed team of dedicated professionals who she trusted.   She was making progress.   Right up until she became psychotic and disappeared.   She has surfaced again but it is no longer safe for me to be in contact with her.

Mental illnesses are illnesses.    My experience has been that sometimes there isn't a lot of choice involved.   Sometimes, many times, the illness wins.   

I don't think it because of lack of caring, or lack of effort,   what I observed is that chaos inside my partner's head became so extreme that her options became smaller and smaller until all that was left was to run ahead of the madness.

'ducks

[eprogeny]

I think what I've arrived at is there'a no reason for us to stay in any kind of contact.  She's not ready to get any real help, and I'm not willing to compromise myself to cheer her on for finding new messed up ways to mask her wounds.

Even if I could help her, I know I need all my energy and focus for myself and for those in my life who are also growing.  That means none of it can go to her.

And you know, I think I'm good with that.