ex girlfriend with BPD

[streetgang21]

I needed to share this because lately I have been dealing with some very heavy thoughts and feelings.

First-I am a 58 year old male, retired from public service, single. I was married for five years and have one child who is 32 years old. My daughter passed away when she was 28. My marriage ended in 1987- I was addicted to pain killers after the divorce which didn't kill me somehow (was in treatment 3 weeks-learned a lot!) I have been single since then-saw a lot of gals-had fun. I  went through a lot over the loss of the marriage and learned a lot about myself, relationships, life in general.
I live in a small town/area/community-this is important to keep in mind when reading this post.
So one day I was happily going along living my life when I was transferred to a different building by my employer. (I am going to try to be concise as possible.)
I met a girl who was going through a lot of problems at the time. I looked at her and thought "she just needs to work out her problems and then she will be OK!" 
And that is where the trouble all started-that was 23 years ago. It seemed she always had a problem she was going through and I was there trying to help her- little did I know what I was dealing with-but I had one thing on my side-I had learned hard lessons after losing my marriage. I needed more information so I read as much as I could. She kept trying to get me to come live with her (kept this up for 9 months), kept saying how great I was-how much she loved me- and I held her off which was difficult because she was super charming, super seductive, and, holy crap, the sex was out of this world. I tried to tell her I did not want to get in a relationship with her because she had too much to resolve in her life to be able to be a participant in a healthy relationship. This would turn out to be the one thing I held on to for our entire time together-work out your major problems so you can enjoy a genuine partnership. She would not give up-she was smart-very smart. Even though I tried to hold her off I began having feelings for her- she wouldn't leave me alone long enough to get over her. AND we worked together. I fell in love with her. 
Finally I called her bluff- I locked up my house only to come back to check on the place and started being around her pretty much full time. She was seeing a therapist at the time. I noticed many strange things going on around/with her. (I"m trying to stay concise) she ended up going out of town to see her ex so she could "finish up some paper work"-did not come home till the next day and admitted to sleeping with him and who knows what else happened. What was really strange was when she was getting in her car to go she kept saying she"didn't want to leave me".
Remember- this was 22- 23 years ago. I came upon the information about BPD around this time. The guy that told me about it said if I was going to be in a relationship with her I needed to get a shirt that said "road kill". I learned as much as I could and held on to the thought that she was too unstable to marry let alone be around for very long at all. This would always prove to be true indexed through the solid information I obtained about BPD and all that goes with it. (concise, concise, concise)
That is how things went for a very long time-be together till there was a blow up then time apart then back together. She would always come back so I could not just "get over" her- I loved her.
I gave up trying to put distance between us and I would see her- we had many, many good times. The blow ups became less frequent. But she wanted to get married- I really didn't feel secure doing that but thought-"if she continues saying how much she loves me and we both reach retirement then, yes, I will marry her". But I did not tell her that. 
Until one day-(I don't know the exact "one" but we had been in the "seeing each other" phase of the cycle when she began to grow distant-sex became non-existent, she stopped calling, she started picking fights, adopted new mannerisms, didn't include me in her interests. (this was 10 years ago)We were in the parking lot at work and said good bye for the day- I didn't see or hear from her for three months. Remember-she always would end up coming back or calling to get things going again. I knew the relationship really was not healthy but she would never stop so I just went along with the cycles -and I loved her. When she began to get distant I did not try to stop what was happening- I knew- and I thought "well this is it". When she did start to see me again she just acted like nothing had happened but it was too late and things were never the same between us. She changed jobs, moved away-every now and then she would come back usually when she needed help with major problems. I was always there too. (stupid me-the fool in love)
I'm trying to be concise-there are so many pages and chapters in this story... .

Finally-why I came here and am posting this- It has been a while now (more than a year) and I haven't heard from her. I was sitting alone in the quiet of my home and it seemed something was just bothering me-she kept popping up in my mind (was this the result of the many, MANY times she would come back during our relationship- a result of some kind of coincidental conditioning?) I got out some old pictures of her and myself from those days so long ago. As I looked through them I realized what I knew any way- I miss the hell out of her and love her so much still to this day.

Sometimes there are just impossible situations. Maybe she was just showing me a mirror the whole time-maybe the only reason we had so many good times was because we did NOT get married. I truly believe we would have just ended in divorce and I would not have seen her as much as I did. So I'm sitting here typing out this story so that any one can read it and perhaps find some useful, relevant information. (it helps me too getting this off my chest!)
If any one has some thing to offer in response to this story that would be great- I could use some feed back and if you have questions I can try to answer them.
By the way- I saw no one else while I was with "her". I could not just "get over" her during our times apart. I never hit her or was physically mean. We had verbal bouts but I really tried to watch what I said. Maybe I miss those old times, being younger, being so special to her but I do still have strong feelings for her.

[rfriesen]

Hi streetgang,

Welcome and thank you for sharing your story here. 23 years is an awfully long time and I imagine you can get deeply attached to someone, even if (maybe especially if) you're used to that person cycling in and out of your life at times.

There's a lot I can relate to in your story, although my relationship with my ex was so much more condensed -- just over a year and a half. So certainly not the same in that respect. My ex was engaged when we started and I thought she was going to get married. (After all that happened, I wouldn't get involved with someone else's SO now, but at the time I thought it was her business and didn't really think twice.) So I didn't expect to become emotionally attached. But in hindsight, she had this way of making me feel her internal crises and that intense emotional/physical longing. She left her fiancé and moved out, every now and then collapsing in tears over - well I don't even remember what anymore, it could be a family issue or a feeling of inadequacy or the thought of losing me. Bit by bit I became attached to her and her whole internal world of crises and longing. She gave me such intense love and attention and, yes, the sex was completely out of this world. By the end she was always pressuring me to move in with her, and some instinct made me resist. I see now it would have been a disaster. Although a year and a half isn't long by comparison, I think that, like you, I had many more good times with my ex because I wouldn't move in with her.

I miss her a lot too at times. Even though I know that the relationship had become dysfunctional and that stepping away was the healthiest thing to do. At the same time, there is that part of me that's a little envious of you and wonders how it would have been to stretch that year and a half into many more years ... .crazy how our minds work!

Well, what is it that you would like now? Are you hoping she'll return again and that you can continue the relationship? Are you hoping to detach and not to miss her so much? You mentioned your kids. I'm sorry to hear your daughter passed away so young, that must be incredibly hard as a parent. Is your 32 year-old near you?

You said you're 58 and retired -- so lots of life left and lots of time to live it as you want. I guess the real question is - how do you want to live it?

[streetgang21]

Thanks a million for responding! (I am still learning to navigate this website, thanks for being patient)
I guess I would like some kind of closure! Part of me hopes to see her again-I wonder maybe she really loves me- I don't know-probably not. I don't think anything would actually change. So I'm really trying to just get things straight in my mind.
My son lives on the east coast-don't get to see him much.
Maybe I'm looking at things through rose colored glasses which reminds me of the saying, "It's hard to see stop signs when wearing rose colored glasses"! I think I'll work through this-maybe I'm putting it to rest and this is part of letting it go-very difficult. Perhaps I'm on the verge of doing that but I still want to hold on- it is like a death and I have been down this road before saying good bye to some one forever-a lot is going through my mind.
How do I want to live the rest of my life? Maybe with some kind of happiness. It is kind of difficult right now though.

[drained1996]

street,

I feel for you dealing with 23 plus years of BPD... .it's tough having a mentally ill partner you love, much less one that can so callously disregard our needs and feelings so easily. 
You mentioned maybe finding closure... .I'm guessing with the knowledge you have gained that any closure is going to have to come from within you... .
Have you worked towards healing yourself, or have you been patiently awaiting her return?  Is that now why you are reaching out and posting here... .to start on your path of learning and healing? 
You have found a great family where most of us can relate to the things you've been through.  We are here for support, advice, and sharing our experiences.  You will find tools and lessons throughout this site to help you along your path.  Please do share with us a little more about what you may be thinking for yourself in the future, and exactly how you are feeling now.   

[streetgang21]

drained,
Thanks for responding.
I really haven't been waiting for her to come back at all- our last encounter was really bad and I am sure I am now "all bad". I know it doesn't matter anyway-I would never be able to trust her.
I always tried to figure things out as we went along in the relationship-keep my bearings-get information-try to realize what I was dealing with... .
It's just that I never got much closure because she always came back around and, yes, I caved pretty much all the time. With that in mind please consider this-I did set boundaries with her - I had to always let her know where she stopped and I started and vice versa.
I had been doing pretty good until the other day (as I described in my original post).
I think I just have some big time accepting to do-she is gone-she probably isn't who I ever thought she was.
As I am writing I can't help but feel people must be thinking "wow this guy has some serious issues himself" or "why didn't he call the law to make her stop?"
I feel I am a lucid, mentally healthy individual-there is so much information regarding my time with her. That is why I kept saying I was trying to be concise.
And -yes- 20 years ago I got really fed up with trying to tell her I did not want to be in a relationship with her to the point I called the law and asked them if they would please go to her and tell her to leave me alone. They did talk to her and she still came back after about a week. I remember one time early in the relationship she kept coming by after I had told her I did not want to be in a relationship with her-I would not answer my door which is still there, made of steel, and has a large dent in it from where she kicked it trying to get in. I knew why she was the way she was-abused as a child by father, mother absent at different crucial times.
So I guess that tempered my responses to her. After a while I just "went with the flow", my feelings growing for her as we went along. (stockholm syndrome maybe in some weird manner? I don't know... .)
I began thinking "well, maybe she is sincere, maybe things can work out, maybe we have a chance"-no, it was not to be.
Granted, all this information I am relating is my side of things but I don't know what else to do besides post on this website. Believe me please-friends and family grew tired of hearing about this a long time ago which I can understand that. I basically handled it on my own and that's cool. It was only recently I felt a need to share my feelings.
Maybe I realize my closure IS finally here, that she is gone and we will definitely never be together- ( I tried to put the light bulb icon here but just got some text! !

[drained1996]

"As I am writing I can't help but feel people must be thinking "wow this guy has some serious issues himself"."

As you wander around the message board and read others stories... .you will see most here can directly relate to what you have been through.  Sure, some r/s's were shorter, but there are many that spanned decades like yours.  We all know the hurt, the feelings, the push/pull, the boundary busting and the struggle to keep the boundaries.  We all also understand how being in a BPD relationship drains you of your own very being over time.  It can engulf us, and essentially make who we are disappear, or at least make who we are fade in and out.  We all have issues of our own to address... .that's part of the process of detachment is to understand our part in this whole mess.  There are some lessons on the right hand side of this page, as well as the 5 stages of detachment.  I encourage you to look over them and share if you feel so inclined where you think you may be in your detachment process.  Keep in mind these stages don't necessarily have to be in strict order... .though freedom does come last.  
Nothing you say here will be seen as strange or off the wall.  You've found a place where you will not be judged for your feelings, just the contrary.  You've found a family that can help you understand your feelings and emotions and can help guide you in comprehending what you've been through... .and where you may want to go.  
Have you thought about seeking out a therapist?  I know I did, and found it so useful in life that I still regularly go even after finding my freedom!  We hope you keep sharing!  

[streetgang21]

drained,
Thanks for your post
I think I am in the processing stage of detachment. I really can't believe if she came around anything would be any better. Eleven years ago is when she seemed to really change from who I thought I knew to someone I really did not like. Yeah, there were traces of her old "self" but something was different-something was gone or lost that hasn't come back. Sure, there have been times since then she has come around but  only because she needed help with some major part of her life (money, moving, etc... .) After she got any help like that from me she would be gone- wouldn't hear from her for long periods of time (i.e.,couple years!)
I can also see how perhaps I am in the self inquiry stage lately-trying to form a time line and make a little more sense of it all.
Really I feel I had been in the freedom stage-I had not been thinking of her a lot at all but she came to mind the other day and... .
I know this is all on me and really my responsibility-and perhaps this is where I'm getting hung up: CREATIVE ACTION!
Looking at those stages makes me really think-it is like I am going through the first three really fast over and over in my mind!
Maybe I can look at my time with her and say to myself, "I will always remember her in a good way" or something like that.
Seeing a therapist is great and a long time ago I saw one for a while-it helped. I feel I have the tools and resources to handle this now.
What has really helped was posting on this website-as I type out what has been going on I feel I am gaining awareness and insight into my current mental state.
An enormous help are the replies from you and others-these are making a big difference in me dealing with my feelings.
Maybe there is some tiny part of me that wonders, "what if she grew out of it-would she be any different-is she still there" I don't know-probably not after really looking at everything. 
I recollect we seemed to have a few good years between 99 and 2004 until things went south but even then there were strange goings-on-mysterious phone calls-from who? I don't know. I could never completely trust her.
I think a "perfect storm" occurred during 04-05. People kept telling her I wasn't going to marry her  (we worked together-it really wasn't any of their business but... .), she read a popular book at the time, the show she regularly watched on TV, success in a small business she started, perhaps met someone-she became emboldened enough to move on. It was like a snowball effect.
I was watching a video the other day on the internet. A guy related this story: Three people are sitting at a table where soup has been ordered. The first guy spills the soup-he is a schlemiel. The second guy gets the soup spilled on him-he is a schlimazel. The third guy cleans up the mess. He is a schmuck.
From this point on I feel like anything more I do to help her is going to make me a schmuck and I am not a schmuck.
Perhaps some would say "looks like you have always been a schmuck! Not any more!

[rfriesen]

Yeah, there were traces of her old "self" but something was different-something was gone or lost that hasn't come back.

What many of us here have described in our experiences is an initial period of bliss and connection so intense and happy that we held on for those "traces" long after the push/pull and pain and mind games crept in. It sounds like you also kept some boundaries intact, which may have saved you from becoming completely engulfed by the relationship, but maybe also convinced you to stay involved much longer, feeling that you had at least maintained your independence.

In any case, the past is the past -- there's no right or wrong way to do these relationships. One thing everyone here seems to agree on is that they affect us deeply. These are experiences that we'll carry with us for the rest of our lives. So the only way forward, really, is to accept the past for what it is. Then the question becomes -- how do we want to carry these experiences forward? Answering that is a longterm project! For months after the relationship with my ex ended, I kept thinking I could "solve" that question and then move on with my life. Now I give myself time ... .and still move on with my life in the meantime. I know I'll carry the time with my ex with me forever ... .but now it's more about thinking through my own role in it, what I was looking for, what I'm still looking for, and what really matters to me in life. No doubt that can be more painful, less immediately gratifying, more draining, etc, than riding the emotional rollercoaster with my ex. And I miss the highs sometimes, for sure, no way around that. But I'm finding my feet again, learning that real happiness can be found in a "slow burn" in life, rather than intense highs and painful lows. And who said it was all supposed to be easy? We look for easy rewards in life. That's ok, we're human and it's natural. But once we've been burned, hurt badly, then why not learn to carry that pain, to explore it, to hold it more lightly? Over time, we can gain a lot of confidence by learning to face and even explore our deepest pain, rather than trying to block it out. And the pain subsides in time, even makes our lives richer for having experienced it so fully.

That's the very optimistic spin on things, admittedly. I stand by every word of it, but there are no doubt times when I wish I could more easily brush it all aside and get on with my day. Patience -- if there's anything this experience is teaching me, it's that sometimes you really need patience.

From this point on I feel like anything more I do to help her is going to make me a schmuck and I am not a schmuck.
Perhaps some would say "looks like you have always been a schmuck! Not any more!

These relationships can make us feel like a schlemiel, schlimazel, and schmuck all at once! But, agreed, at the tail end the predominant feeling is typically that of being a schmuck. Trust me, that fades with time, and with the realisation that pwBPD are not masterminds weaving their way to greater happiness, but desperate souls who cause us a lot of pain as they flail about trying to latch onto some way out of their own pain.

[JQ]

Hey Street,

Welcome to the group! As you have quickly learned we don't judge here because we've been where you're at, we've experienced exactly what you've been through & others like family or friends just can't understand it unless they've been through a BPD r/s. I'm sorry that you've experienced what is a LIFETIME of BPD but really happy that you've finally found us. We're really anonymous so please feel free to share anything you're comfortable with. As I said, we're not going to judge because trust me, we've all been there and done that and certainly have the scars to prove it as you will see from further reading.

Speaking of, I would encourage you to read the references at the top and to the right -------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>

I would encourage you to read the references in addition to the following books you can find at the library! "I hate you, I love you don't leave me" & "Stop Walking on Eggshells". These books will help with your education & give you some insight.  I would also encourage you to seek out a really good therapist experienced in BPD/NON aka Codependent r/s. This is one of a few key's your going to need for your closure, for you to move on in your life as most will testify too.

I kinda laughed at the "Roadkill" term your buddy used but it's somewhat true if the NON hasn't learned enough to finally close the chapter in their life never to open it again. You're going to learn a lot of new terminology, Painted Black, Painted White, Dysregulation, Gas Lighting, Mirroring, triangulation, Abandonment, Engulfment, raging, Narcissistic, Cluster B Mental Illness and the list goes on and on. That's ok, we're here to help you get through it. If you don't understand something, ask.

You finally decided to embark on your journey with detaching from your BPD. I will tell you street is will be a very bumpy & challenging path & YOU will stumble on your journey. SPOILER ALERT!  WE all have! So don't feel you're the only one. Remember, we've all been where you are now. When you do stumble look over your shoulder ... .the group      will be there to pick you up, dust you off and straighten you up. The hard part is next & THAT IS ALL YOU!  YOU need to decide to continue down the path you're on & see how that continues to work out. Choose the path to the right & see how that works out or you can sit back down in the middle of the road waiting for that biga$$ BPD truck to come down the road at 98 mph to run you down again. SHOCKER !  The choice has ALWAYS BEEN YOURS TO MAKE!

You're just north of 50 as am I & a few others here. Like you I retired from service to our country along with a few others in the group. We're at an age where we do a lot of self reflecting over our past years of love, life and what is next in our lives. You seem to be educated kinda guy too with a lot of life experience. You said you are finally ready to move on, to find some closure ... .but I see the back & forth battle that goes on within you ... .it goes on in all of us.

You said, "I guess I would like some kind of closure! Part of me hopes to see her again-I wonder maybe she really loves me- I don't know-probably not. I don't think anything would actually change. So I'm really trying to just get things straight in my mind."  On your journey we the group won't tell you what to do or what path to choose, we're hear to guide you, bounce idea's off of, listen to you and share our stories with you so that YOU can make the best choice for YOU!  

So Streetgang, good name since if you truly want to go No Contact (NC) then you're going to be in a street fight ... .not so much with her but with yourself. In order to turn the page on this final chapter YOU have to be the one to do it. This isn't about your exBPD but this is ALL ABOUT YOU!   That therapist I told you about ... .well their going to help you sort through your thoughts, emotions, feelings to help you deal with it. Trust me you're going to need the professional assistance.  Then their going to help YOU do a deep dive on YOU & your past, your childhood to help you sort through all the crap to find out why you are most likely the codependent that you are ... .shocker most of us here are. You might not like what you find, it's going to be ugly but it is a means to an end.

I myself did the deep dive on myself and learned that I had a step mother who was BPD, a step sister & 1/2 brother who exhibit 7-8 items out of the DSM criteria if we're counting. You, like most of us are a "Perfectionist" always wanting to ensure that things are perfect & will go to extreme lengths to make it happen so that your mother, father or the BPD in your life wouldn't rage. If it was perfect then there was no reason to get mad ... .then they could approve of your actions, give you the love that you want.

Or you're the "Knight in Amor" protecting a sibling from crazy making BPD parent who would rage for what seem to be crazy stuff. Now you "Protect" your BPD from others who would due them harm, a "rape or abuse", etc. etc. etc.

Or you were the "Sheriff in the White hat" to keep the peace "abusive" ex-husband / boyfriend or even a parent or sibling" make things right & keep the peace when everything else was going crazy.

SO the hard work is about to start. Be sure to exercise to burn off the stress & good endorphins, Be sure to eat right, keep a since of humor, get plenty of sleep. Be honest with yourself Street ... .look yourself in the mirror & be honest with yourself ... .not for us but for you.

Remember the group is here for YOU but we can't help those who won't help themselves. Come back here as often as you need to, as often as you want to. It's somewhat therapeutic to put it out into words.

Smooth travels

J

[JQ]

Street,

From my observation from your first post ... .you had a long distance relationship (LDR) for a long time. My two experiences with my exBPDgf's started out as LDR's too, as did some here in the group. This bring up a couple of terms for you ... ."Engulfment & abandonment". Sorry ... .I don't mean to any disrespect but don't know how much you already know about BPD so please feel free to correct me if needed. But it's also for the group for those who haven't heard these terms or examples ... .

I digress ... .so ... .you have a LDR and you see each other when you can, "Much like my LDR, about once a month we would meet up somewhere in between."  Soo, when a BPD feels alone, or has feelings of loneness they have intense emotions of "Abandonment" & will do almost anything to change it. Crazy calls at all hours of the night WELL into the night to ensure that you're not sleeping with anyone else.  Then you show them love, caring, driving, flying, to where ever to show them how much you love them, show them how much they mean to you, to show your actions are louder than words. This scares the hell out of them, they have "EXTREME FEARS" of abandonment.

Then a AMAZING weekend, extended weekend having some incredible amazing intimate moments that last for hours & hours. You drive / fly back to your house with all these great endorphins running through out your body ... ."Your in love". 

Then you make plans over the years to make it permanent, she wants to move in, she want to have kids, she wants have a family & life with you ... .or she said during those incredible weekends you had. Now she ignores your calls, your text. She rages at you, tell you never to contact her again. She never loved you, she loves someone else, she blocks you from Facebook, other social media. She blocks you from her entire life and you believe it's over. This Streetgang is known as "EXTREME FEARS OF ENGULFMENT". They will do anything & everything to avoid be boxed in. They will tell you or share with you that they've falling in love with someone else, or staying the night, etc. etc. etc.

This behavior is known as "PUSH/PULL" and it SUUUUCKS!  It is what confuses the hell out of us NONs. But what you've come to learn is that BPD is a VERY SERIOUS CLUSTER B MENTAL ILLNESS" that is beyond anything you can do for her. It's really beyond anything modern medicine, pharma or surgical means can fix. My exBPDgf has been in & out of therapy for 30 years & is highly functional. She is self aware of her condition but is not much different than she was 30 plus years ago. BPD & NON's are the perfect magnetic attraction couple as the book, "The Human Magnet Syndrome" will educate you on. I learned a lot from that one too as did a few others.

So this is the important part you need to remember ... .THIS IS NOT ABOUT HER OR HER CLUSTER BE MENTAL ILLNESS!  
     
THIS IS ALL ABOUT YOU & GETTING YOU TO A GOOD PLACE WITHIN YOURSELF SO YOU CAN BE HAPPY WITH YOUR LIFE! HAPPY ENJOYING YOUR LIFE!

Just a thought or two ... .

J