heartlessness (push) vs attractiveness (pull)

[C.Stein]

What happened was that my slow mellowing was not met with equal and opposite mellowing, so when I said hey lets modify the rules a bit, I was met with What the heck. WYSIWYG. Move on there ain't nothing to see round here. Short shrift.

The r/s has stayed very firmly on its initial limited structure, so while I am ready for slow change and growth, I am alone in this request, and we have reached the limit of our r/s.

So in essence you asked her to play football when the only game she knows is baseball?

I don't see anything wrong with modifying the rules, without growth the relationship will stagnate and die.  That said, one of the most important parts of a long term, lasting relationship is compromise.

Yep! same here. Post wedding I had about 12/18 months of tryng to work out what was going on, and then like you I started "retreating". This retreat is the only part of the r/s STBex can relate to and so I am naturally the bad guy.

Hmmm ... .yup.  In my ex's eyes my distancing/withdrawal was unwarranted.  She fully believes she did nothing wrong and this is what she needs to believe, even if she can admit to making a mistake.  When she realizes that she has "screwed up" she then pretends whatever she did never happened, and in some case will simply "forget" what she said or did.  She just sweeps it all under the carpet, me and my emotions along with it.  This is the most childlike aspect of her by far.  She simply cannot accept the consequences of her actions, especially when it involves emotions, her shame/guilt and my pain and suffering.  This is very much BPD.

Ah! yes that feels familiar. I was powerless (but without accepting it)... .I was asking for things and these things were being flatly denied. I was going mad... ."I've done all this you, and you don't even do that". It was a terrible period, made worse by the fact that they were all denied, and I was just being overly sensitive, and never ever could the matter be discussed. Oh! I want to scream even now  

I'm glad I've learned a bit, because that period was one to move quickly on from.

If you view her as a child in an adults body you will understand why what you asked/expected was impossible for her to give/provide.

[C.Stein]

Here our r/s was different. I was emotionally backing off, and while STBex was maybe aware (maybe indifferent) she would mention nothing. No complaints no remarks. By now I  could separate emotions from sex, (not a problem for her either) and so jointly sex remained totally regular. I have a feeling this for her was a way to rationalise the normalness /goodness of our r/s. While for me I had regular unemotional sex.

This was not the way it was for me at all.  I wanted the emotional connection, but as time went on I began to feel more like a tool.  The more I felt like a tool the less interested in sex I was.  There were a few other things as well but the loss of emotional security and feeling like I was just a tool to satisfy her needs were the biggest factors.  Don't get me wrong, I loved the sex on a purely recreational level but heh ... .I don't need a woman to get myself off.  Sure it is more pleasurable with another person but lets be honest ... .we are our own best lover.   

When I become emotionally involved, fall in love, etc... .I want more than recreational sex all the time.  If recreational sex was all I needed then I wouldn't even bother with relationships at all and that would be the far safer route, emotionally speaking.

[earlgrey]

That said, one of the most important parts of a long term, lasting relationship is compromise.

... .and here I ask myself have I done everything possible to prevent divorce. Have I really compromised, have I perhaps been too inconsiderate?

I answer this by saying who knows!

But I'd also say compromise is great when you are trying to solve a problem, find a solution. But when the problem is not a problem ie "she just sweeps it all under the carpet, me and my emotions along with it" (which I can totally relate to) then the whole idea of compromise is irelevant, because there is nothing to resolve.

This for me was almost as big a problem as the problem itself.

Double whammy! Its broke but you are not allowed to fix it.

 

[C.Stein]

This for me was almost as big a problem as the problem itself.

Double whammy! Its broke but you are not allowed to fix it.

Couldn't agree more.  What happened, or didn't happen, after something she did that hurt me was as bad if not worse than the actually action/words/behavior.  I am allowed to hurt as long as I didn't hold her responsible for the pain she had caused and that I hurt in silence.  As soon as I expressed my pain, attempted to communicate with her she went into victim and/or blame & excuse mode.  So I stopped communicating with her and this is something I regret.

[earlgrey]

She did try, but her idea of emotional intimacy was very highschoolish ... .very shallow.

Yes... .these comments resonate. I would get little kisses and childish voices in response to 'issues'.

I think also from other topics we have talked about waifs... .

Trying to focus on early days, i seem to remember a juvenile charm that indeed I found attractive. Probably still do, it is the antithesis of something I don't like. Like an overbearing, unsympathetic, matronly 'caretaker'.

Even today, under certain circumstances (ie not with an intimate family member) there is a jovial 'enhanced' voice which comes across as sweet and charming. And yet there is the darker side lurking... .which us 'chosen' ones get eventually to meet.

[C.Stein]

Trying to focus on early days, i seem to remember a juvenile charm that indeed I found attractive. Probably still do, it is the antithesis of something I don't like.

I agree with this.  At times her "juvenile charm" was endearing and at times tedious and over bearing.   I could sometimes get caught up in all that because I like to be silly from time to time.  However there are times when it is simply not appropriate.  I failed to make the connection to BPD when in the relationship, I just chalked it up to inexperience even though she was in her mid thirties with considerably more than a handful of relationships behind her.

[earlgrey]

we are now nearly into 3rd month cohabiting with divorce pending. There is no dialogue other than a few 'pleasantries'.

She leaves the house this morning says where she is going, and she lingers... .looking at me with a little girl lost face, seeking something from me. The waif.

This does not go unnoticed by me (by design I'm sure), but i ignore and say bye.

All that goes through my mind is the following, that I copy from the APA link (CS) posted yesterday on another thread. It is to do with basics for any kind of useful repairs to the r/s.

"Curtail acting-out behaviors, such as using drugs or alcohol, overspending, acting in sexually compulsive ways or physically or verbally abusing a partner. Reduce levels of defensiveness and show vulnerability."

Some real 'vulnerability', not the just the little girl lost stuff.

Ironic how what you are really looking for is there but only in just a pretend way.

[C.Stein]

Ironic how what you are really looking for is there but only in just a pretend way.

I understand this and I think it is one thing that kept me in the relationship.  She would give me just enough to keep my hope alive, until the last 6 months.  She would also give me that look but I think it was more a means of control rather than a real show of vulnerability.  Again a very child like behavior as well.  Certainly that wasn't always the case but the more I think about it I believe most of the time it was.

I am not all that good at showing vulnerability, although with my ex I showed it more than I have with anyone.  I remember the one time when I was totally "exposed" to her, more vulnerable than I have ever allowed myself to be with anyone and she just stood there and looked at me.  The reason I was at that point was because of her behavior/words and all she could do was look at me, almost like I was a contagious disease.  I have to say if I had replaced her at that moment with the child version of her the look would have probably been the same.