Update w/me bring scared to leave boyfriend w/BPD & a failure at NC

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

So it's been a little bit since I've posted, maybe a week... .feels like a month. I'm ashamed to say that I am a complete failure at NC.  Mostly because I think I'm afraid to not have any contact, I have used the contact to see what frame of mind he is in. Rational or Non.  I just don't know how many times I have to go through this. He has done awful things to me, and you all have given me the best advise. I feel I am coming to the end of my tormented journey with him... .I pray.
I agreed to meet with him last week at a restaurant, he said he had some things for me, my birthday present (whatever, a terrible memory that day was), and I had things of his that I wanted to return.  So we met. Most of the time he was telling me how much he missed me, and wants to be with me, and misses me physically, sexually.  I had no response, I am not in the least bit missing him sexually.  He had tried to send me some texts that were sexual... .to me basically crude, things that he never sent or said before. I got offended, and he got on the defense saying he was just trying to turn me on. Well, no, it didn't work at all... .it did the opposite.
He does his cycle, and I have been journaling this, just so I don't go insane with it all.  Begging, saying he really will try, agreed no relationship just wants to start over or be friends, then frustration, then guilt & self pity,  then it ends in non-rational anger with making it sound like it's all my fault. And basically at this point it is my fault. I should have done the NC a while ago... .but because I was afraid and needing to know where his mindset was, I would respond. I can't seem to get over that.
He has acknowledged that he is not "right", has major issues, and has set up a session with a Therapist.  She recommended that I go with him the first time so she can get a better view of the whole situation. After much back and forth, I agreed. So tonight, we will meet there. I will not go to his house, and do not want him coming over mine (which he has asked to do often) I fear I won't be able to get him to leave... .which has happened in the past.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this in my last post, or if I even knew then. But last week he confessed to me that he had been doing drugs (crank) for about the past 2 1/2 years, and that is why he was "so whacked out".  I was disgusted with the irony of it all.  How many arguments we had with him accusing me of doing coke, and lying, and how I kept telling him his anger over the past couple years was getting out of control and him saying it was because of me and how I push him away. I'm really having a hard time processing that. I know it took a lot for him to tell me and I'm glad he did... .however, doesn't make things any better. His actions even the past week has been unstable, and his emotional cycling changes so quickly... .what used to last for a week, has diminished to a day or now even an hour. He can blow up at me at night... .blow my phone up at midnight for hours, then text or call me in the morning like all is good.  Now, he says he thinks he has Lyme's disease. Because he did a questionnaire and had 15 out of the 21, the other 6 were maybes, and is calling his Doctor now to get tested. I told him to do that over 2 years ago.

I'm so drained, mentally exhausted, confused, angry, bitter, and sick with myself at this point.  I just need to quit him, and I feel so pathetic that I am having such a difficult time with doing so.  My core has always been to be a fixer, and I hold guilt on myself when I can't. It doesn't help when he is a master at making me feel it too.  I was given very good words of wisdom one time many years ago, which I had often preached to my friends and my daughters, that "Guilt is a Self-Induced emotion, you are the only one who can allow it in."  Another example of how I have changed over these years, I no longer can practice what I preach.

My intention is to go to this session tonight, and lay it out there, that I don't see hope for this relationship, and that he hasn't honored any one of my wishes, to give me space, to stop harassing & pressuring me, and his anger is not in control. That is not love, as he says he feels deeply for me. I'm hoping if I say these things, how I truly feel with this professional there, he will hear me better. For some reason, even though I have told him I do not want a relationship, although he says at that time he understands that... .hours later he doesn't, and is mad, and hangs up... .only to blow up my phone all over again, just to have me turn it off.  I know, I know what I have to do... .No Contact. I just want to get passed the fear... .the fear that doing that while he's blowing up my phone, will make everything worse... .I just don't know what he will do... .either to himself or me... .or call my friends husbands again.  I swear... .is it possible to have some kind of Post traumatic Stress over this?  Cause that's how I feel.

[Roselee]

So it's been a little bit since I've posted, maybe a week... .feels like a month. I'm ashamed to say that I am a complete failure at NC.  Mostly because I think I'm afraid to not have any contact, I have used the contact to see what frame of mind he is in. Rational or Non.  I just don't know how many times I have to go through this. He has done awful things to me, and you all have given me the best advise. I feel I am coming to the end of my tormented journey with him... .I pray.
I agreed to meet with him last week at a restaurant, he said he had some things for me, my birthday present (whatever, a terrible memory that day was), and I had things of his that I wanted to return.  So we met. Most of the time he was telling me how much he missed me, and wants to be with me, and misses me physically, sexually.  I had no response, I am not in the least bit missing him sexually.  He had tried to send me some texts that were sexual... .to me basically crude, things that he never sent or said before. I got offended, and he got on the defense saying he was just trying to turn me on. Well, no, it didn't work at all... .it did the opposite.
He does his cycle, and I have been journaling this, just so I don't go insane with it all.  Begging, saying he really will try, agreed no relationship just wants to start over or be friends, then frustration, then guilt & self pity,  then it ends in non-rational anger with making it sound like it's all my fault. And basically at this point it is my fault. I should have done the NC a while ago... .but because I was afraid and needing to know where his mindset was, I would respond. I can't seem to get over that.
He has acknowledged that he is not "right", has major issues, and has set up a session with a Therapist.  She recommended that I go with him the first time so she can get a better view of the whole situation. After much back and forth, I agreed. So tonight, we will meet there. I will not go to his house, and do not want him coming over mine (which he has asked to do often) I fear I won't be able to get him to leave... .which has happened in the past.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this in my last post, or if I even knew then. But last week he confessed to me that he had been doing drugs (crank) for about the past 2 1/2 years, and that is why he was "so whacked out".  I was disgusted with the irony of it all.  How many arguments we had with him accusing me of doing coke, and lying, and how I kept telling him his anger over the past couple years was getting out of control and him saying it was because of me and how I push him away. I'm really having a hard time processing that. I know it took a lot for him to tell me and I'm glad he did... .however, doesn't make things any better. His actions even the past week has been unstable, and his emotional cycling changes so quickly... .what used to last for a week, has diminished to a day or now even an hour. He can blow up at me at night... .blow my phone up at midnight for hours, then text or call me in the morning like all is good.  Now, he says he thinks he has Lyme's disease. Because he did a questionnaire and had 15 out of the 21, the other 6 were maybes, and is calling his Doctor now to get tested. I told him to do that over 2 years ago.

I'm so drained, mentally exhausted, confused, angry, bitter, and sick with myself at this point.  I just need to quit him, and I feel so pathetic that I am having such a difficult time with doing so.  My core has always been to be a fixer, and I hold guilt on myself when I can't. It doesn't help when he is a master at making me feel it too.  I was given very good words of wisdom one time many years ago, which I had often preached to my friends and my daughters, that "Guilt is a Self-Induced emotion, you are the only one who can allow it in."  Another example of how I have changed over these years, I no longer can practice what I preach.

My intention is to go to this session tonight, and lay it out there, that I don't see hope for this relationship, and that he hasn't honored any one of my wishes, to give me space, to stop harassing & pressuring me, and his anger is not in control. That is not love, as he says he feels deeply for me. I'm hoping if I say these things, how I truly feel with this professional there, he will hear me better. For some reason, even though I have told him I do not want a relationship, although he says at that time he understands that... .hours later he doesn't, and is mad, and hangs up... .only to blow up my phone all over again, just to have me turn it off.  I know, I know what I have to do... .No Contact. I just want to get passed the fear... .the fear that doing that while he's blowing up my phone, will make everything worse... .I just don't know what he will do... .either to himself or me... .or call my friends husbands again.  I swear... .is it possible to have some kind of Post traumatic Stress over this?  Cause that's how I feel.

[VitaminC]

So it's been a little bit since I've posted, maybe a week... .feels like a month. I'm ashamed to say that I am a complete failure at NC.  Mostly because I think I'm afraid to not have any contact... .

Don't be ashamed, Roselee. So many of us have been there or are still there and know exactly the feeling you describe. Stopping something that is a long-established pattern is just not easy. People speak of it as an addiction, and I agree. I started to think of myself as addicted months before I ever came across this site or knew anything about BPD. 

Can you identify what the fear is? There are probably several things in there. I found this really hard to do and am not sure, even now, if I could put words to it. But it was definitely a fear and it definitely kept me locked in to something I saw was very bad for me for months and months.

He does his cycle, and I have been journaling this, just so I don't go insane with it all.  

That's really good. I started something similar because the switches were so frequent that I couldn't keep up and had got so used to blaming myself. It helped to see it in black and white and be able to trace things back. I also used photographs to help me remember more the emotions of the thing - I might take a picture of something that signified something for me that I knew would help me to "get" there again. Ways to get in touch with ourself is what we're talking about here.

He has acknowledged that he is not "right", has major issues, and has set up a session with a Therapist.  She recommended that I go with him the first time so she can get a better view of the whole situation.

That's generous of you to agree to go to someone else's therapy session. Since you actually want to be out of the relationship, it is not your responsibility to assist in someone else's counselling. Just to say that you are doing something here for him and to be aware of that.   

I will not go to his house, and do not want him coming over mine (which he has asked to do often) I fear I won't be able to get him to leave... .which has happened in the past.

That's wise.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this in my last post, or if I even knew then. But last week he confessed to me that he had been doing drugs (crank) for about the past 2 1/2 years, and that is why he was "so whacked out".  

Not unusual to be blamed for something that the person with the disorder is actually doing themselves.

I'm so drained, mentally exhausted, confused, angry, bitter, and sick with myself at this point.  I just need to quit him, and I feel so pathetic that I am having such a difficult time with doing so.  My core has always been to be a fixer, and I hold guilt on myself when I can't.

This is exactly the thing you need to be looking at. Have you seen this article on co-dependency already? https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

My intention is to go to this session tonight, and lay it out there, that I don't see hope for this relationship, and that he hasn't honored any one of my wishes, to give me space, to stop harassing & pressuring me, and his anger is not in control. That is not love, as he says he feels deeply for me. I'm hoping if I say these things, how I truly feel with this professional there, he will hear me better.

Fine. Do that and let us know how it went. It may be the case that you may have to accept that he will never hear you the way you want or need to be heard and that you will have to give up waiting for that to happen.  It will be a release if / when you do.   
 
Don't beat yourself up about not being able to do what  you rationally know you should do or want to do. Some part of you has not figured it out yet and is stuck. Thinking it through rationally and syncing up the emotions is not straightforward.  I thought I needed to understand it before I'd be ready at last to just go. In the end I did understand enough, but actually, I had already understood everything about six months before and it was other beliefs that kept me there. And then, once I was gone, and the initial relief and feeling good about myself had gone on for a little, I started with remembering and having to process things and understand them all over again. It seems that some lessons we need to learn 15 different ways, before we are convinced.

Why do you need him to understand this?   

 I swear... .is it possible to have some kind of Post traumatic Stress over this?  Cause that's how I feel.

Absolutely! What you are going through is very stressful and exhausting.   Consider what you still need to achieve in your own mind before you can let it go.  Not an easy thing to answer. Try here.

[bunny4523]

Roselee,

I feel like you are trying too hard to control his next move.  Meaning, If I do this then he will do that so I can't.  My advice to you is do what is right for you.  Do what you need to.  How he responds is on him and he will have to deal with the consequences of his actions.  You are NOT responsible for how he chooses to respond to anything you say or do. 

Why do you want to know his state of mind?  What are you hoping for or to hear?  Sometimes it's better not knowing what they are thinking.  If it gets into your head to much, it takes over and can cause you so much stress and anxiety.

I'm so sorry, I know how tough this is... .just keep thinking about you, like what is the fear about?  Block the phone, tell friends you don't want to know and not to relay any messages to you.  Also the PTSD- i think it is termed differently but the concept is similar.  We defintately all seem to have gone through that.  It is not fun but it does go away in time.  But first, you have to get away from it which means getting away from him.

Wishing you the best,
Bunny

[Roselee]

You are all so right that I need to not worry about where his mindset it.  I think it has a lot to do wondering if I have to worry about him showing up... .calling my friends etc. But, I need to remember that either way, he may do that anyway.

I've been doing this practice thing in my mind... .when I feel that I may miss him (the good, generous, loving him) I think about the idea of him actually being over my house at that point, and it scares me... .I'm very uncomfortable with it. 

The counseling session last night went as well as can be expected.  He didn't deny his anger, but did tend to say, "well that's normal to act that way when I get the answers I get". Saying that we were raised differently, him being in a household were yelling was the norm... .me no yelling at all was aloud.
After counseling, he was upset and I feel a little agitated that I was leaving, wanted to know if he could see me tonight... .I said no.  One of the things he has said to me, is the whole I love you, I want to be with you for the rest of my life, and stating that the longer we are apart, the more we drift apart, and then it may be too late, cause he may meet someone else.  How can you tell someone that you love them, want to spend the rest of your life with them, but don't take too long coming back because I may be with a new person?  And keeps saying it's been a long time now, I should be over this and willing to forgive him, but also agrees that I'm shell shocked at this point to, but will add in that it's not like he did something really bad, like raped or killed someone (bazaar analogy).  I just said that I would be able to forgive because I know that is "him", but I can't forget any longer, and push it aside like it's OK.

[VitaminC]

Hi Roselee,

why did you agree to go to his counseling session? What was the purpose of, as far as the therapist was concerned?

You said that you hoped that if you said what you had to say in that setting, that it would be heard by him, finally. Did you feel like that happened?

Have you tried making just a list  with pros and cons? And seeing how they balance out? I'm feeling that you're not 100% clear in your own mind. I know that feeling so well, so forgive me if I'm wrong or projecting my own past confusion onto you.

[Roselee]

Well what my fear has been with doing the NC was brought to life on Friday night.  He called me twice, once I was on the phone with my daughter so I didn't answer, but texted him... .he said that he must have pocket dialed me.  Then it happened again when I got home from work... .I answered. He said Oh... .I must have pocket dialed you again... .sorry... I'll let you go. Then somehow he was talking a bit and it was fine... .then it got to where he offered to bring over a pizza and we could talk... .I didn't want that... then after a bit, he started to get agitated, and saying the counseling was a waste, and she (therapist) was able to see it as well. Then he started getting angrier... .I told him to just stop and leave me alone, I wasn't go to talk to him anymore with him being like this. He hangs up on me. I do not answer or respond to anymore of the many calls and texts I receive almost every 15 minutes for the remainder of the night. I wind up falling asleep... .just to be woken up midnight by my doorbell ringing and dog barking. I was terrified. My phone started ringing, and I answered it, just for him to be on the other end, crying and begging to talk to him, how he can't be shut out. I open the door, and he's crying, as am I. Saying he just needs to talk to me, needs me in his life, wants to reassure me that he doesn't want anyone else but me, saying he just needs to be hugged. I look back at it now, and I wonder, did he actually mean to manipulate me? Does he do that consciously? Is it intentional? I live 45 minutes away from him... .what was his mindset the whole time driving. Was he actually coming to talk to me because I wasn't responding at all... .or was he coming to see if I was home & if someone was with me? He did leave after a couple hours that same night... .although I think he would have preferred to stay.
The next day, I sent him a text, that if I had seen the texts and voicemail (which I never listened to, because he asked me to just delete them) I never would have let him in. That he is not taking any of my needs into consideration. He agreed, and apologized in a very loving and sweet text (more manipulation?)
He wants to know if I will go to his counseling with him again tomorrow, because he feels we still have issues. I don't want to go, and yet I'm afraid to tell him so. He left me alone all day yesterday, he did send me a text on Sat if we could still do movies on Sunday... .which at some stupid time on my end I suggested that. I know I'm to blame for this lasting as long as it has.  I really think that when he's crying and begging, and saying all the wonderful things, I ever so slightly bend a little. Then he called... .but I couldn't answer because it had been a crazy morning at work. I texted saying I'll call later... .He sent another text a bit ago, saying I don't really need to call... .don't worry about it... .have a good one (manipulation again? because now for some stupid reason I feel guilty) But I also, do not wish to call.
Every time we speak on the phone, it turns out bad. I would rather say what I need to say via text... .I know it's very non-personal... .and he doesn't like that... .but I just can't seem to communicate with him any other way without getting upset, and it getting bad.
I spent the day yesterday grieving him and our good times together... .then looking back over past texts that were not nice, and a remembrance of how bad it has been and still could be. I don't know why... .I swear, I can't seem to understand WHY I have this guilt feeling! I'm so angry at myself for it. I feel that I am hurting HIM! How screwed up is that! He almost has me believing sometimes that when he says the things he's done, really isn't so bad... .that couples fight... .ok, fighting can be a good thing & I should just know how to snap him out of it by now, and to know that the things he says, he doesn't mean, and just ignore it. Does he really believe these things... .is he manipulating, or is this really what he thinks? 
So, I will text him that I don't feel that I should go to his therapy with him tomorrow... .and hopefully I won't get bombarded with texts and phone calls again. Although he promises not to do that anymore... .I'm very doubtful!

[Roselee]

And Vitamin C, you are not wrong with projecting your past confusion on me.  I have never been so confused and tormented in my life.

[VitaminC]

he started to get agitated, and saying the counseling was a waste, and she (therapist) was able to see it as well.

Does this refer to the counseling for himself, or the counseling that you also attended with him? Whether or not he feels it's a waste of time is really up to him. It's nothing to do with you!

I asked before, please let me ask again: why did you agree to to go to counseling with him? You said before that it was in the hope that what you had to say would be heard.

Did you have that feeling, that you were heard the way you wanted to be?

If no, then why do you consider going again?

... .I wonder, did he actually mean to manipulate me? Does he do that consciously? Is it intentional? I live 45 minutes away from him... .what was his mindset the whole time driving. Was he actually coming to talk to me because I wasn't responding at all... .or was he coming to see if I was home & if someone was with me? He did leave after a couple hours that same night... .although I think he would have preferred to stay.

Understandable to wonder all this, Roselee. But what if I suggest to you that you will never have a definite answer here? How does that feel? Does that make any difference in what you think you could do going forward?

He wants to know if I will go to his counseling with him again tomorrow, because he feels we still have issues. I don't want to go, and yet I'm afraid to tell him so.

You do not want to go. - You have a right not to go. In fact, you have a responsibility (to yourself, certainly, and also to him) to not do anything without understanding your own motivations for it and being at least somewhat clear in how an action will be of benefit - to you.

You are afraid to tell him so.   - Why? What are you afraid of? More of the same kind of behaviour? Another escalation like a couple of weeks ago? Maybe you have more resources now; more information, more support, more clarity - that means you could deal with it.   Is that possible?

He left me alone all day yesterday, he did send me a text on Sat if we could still do movies on Sunday... .which at some stupid time on my end I suggested that.

Yes, we are capable of sending out pretty mixed signals - even after telling all and sundry that we want no more of it! I did it too. The only way to not do that anymore, is to really understand what you are still getting out of this entanglement.  If you figure that out a bit better, you will feel clearer and more able to act in accordance of your stated intent (to stop it all). Until you do, you'll send out mixed signals, confuse yourself, and then blame yourself.   At least that was my experience of my own actions.

I really think that when he's crying and begging, and saying all the wonderful things, I ever so slightly bend a little.

Fear, Obligation, Guilt. Also a lack of clarity about what we really want or need. 

I would rather say what I need to say via text... .I know it's very non-personal... .and he doesn't like that... .but I just can't seem to communicate with him any other way without getting upset, and it getting bad.

"He doesn't like that". - When is it time to pay more attention to what you like?
 

I swear, I can't seem to understand WHY I have this guilt feeling! I'm so angry at myself for it. I feel that I am hurting HIM!

I think many of us know this feeling very well. We talk about co-dependency and there's a lot of literature on the subject. Very useful to start thinking about this.

Here's a good link to get you started:  https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

[Roselee]

Thanks for that link Vitamin C... .very educational! I am living the FOG without a doubt!

I guess my reason for going to the counseling with him is that I wanted the counselor to know & be able to address with him the extent of damage he has done on my end, and to hear and see the effects from the person he is directing it to rather than him saying... .I get jealous, I get angry... .but what do you expect when she answers my questions like she does.  I don't know why... .I guess I really needed this professional to really see the details and know the cycles of what he does. And maybe to hear my worries, and also for me to be able to communicate my fears, & anxiety and doubt... .and now FOG to both of them... .so that at some point he will understand (although when he's calm, he "says" he does understand what he's done) that what he's done and how he cycles, how it scares me.  I guess, maybe I'm hoping that if this Therapist heard what I said, then she can counsel him better, and he will not be so volatile with me.  Maybe that was selfish of me as well.  He says he will spend eternity making it up to me... .hearing these things muddles my brain, and then I remember how I feel... .I jump every time my phone makes a noise, and feel obligated and anxious to call him back.  But, when I'm alone and without him, my stupid brain thinks of the Good in him and the good times... .I know I am in no way an emotional stable person right now.  I can't make a decision about anything... .I'm even lost when I'm at the grocery store, I find myself there, but not knowing what brought me there in the first place.
I know I need time to make myself stronger, and better, and be able to then figure out how to stay away. I guess I still love him? I do miss my friend... .I know that sounds weird... .because I know friends aren't supposed to treat each other like that either.  But I know I can't have a life like this. I'm too on-guard all the time... .I find myself looking for the signs that he will be changing again soon. He says he feels it's almost like I'm setting him up... .like pushing his buttons. I responded that that is why I'm no good right now... .and I need to stay away. He is saying he is done with yelling and talking to me like that... .he won't do it anymore, because all it does it make things worse for him physically/emotionally as well.  But of course, I said just because I had 2 days of peace doesn't make me all better.  We had a calm conversation... .and I guess he feels that things are better... .so this morning 5:30am I get a text, saying he wants to go to Italy, for real & if we can make that happen. It's classic give an inch... .take a yard... .not to mention all the times I asked him to go somewhere, but he always stated he was afraid to fly.   I can barely get up to get myself dressed for work each day... .I know he's looking for quick fixes. Saying if we have sex, everything will be better... .then will add... .he's getting rammy.  I can't even think of the idea of him being close and intimate with me... .I don't miss him in that way. I feel totally closed down in that department.  So, it's sad to say... .but I am at the pathetic point that I am waiting, probably just a couple of days, that he will cycle again with being frustrated with me not wanting to be with him, and get mad, say awful things, then hopefully that will give me the full strength to cut all contact. And maybe he is right... .that by me talking to him and talking about "our" issues (although I never waiver on my stance of how I do not want a relationship) that I am giving him hope.  I don't want to be the person who plays with others emotions?  Am I cycling myself? 

[VitaminC]

How about therapy just for you, Roselee?  Would you consider that?  

[Roselee]

Yes... .I agree... .I need counseling for JUST me as well! I have become a stranger to myself... .I don't like how fragile I am anymore.  I wish there was a special kind of pixie dust that could just make all this go away... .I need to find myself again.  I think I have definitely underestimated the damage that has been done. Because it was so slow and gradual in coming... .but when it hit, it hit hard!  I'm so scared at this point that I will fall for his words, like some kind of a mind-melt,  and I know I can't go through this again, because it will happen again.  Jealously and lack of trust and manipulation, yelling, paranoia, are not things that go away in a matter of a few days.  I have to learn to think of myself first... .something as a mother and a woman I haven't done in many many years.

I know I sound weaker and that I'm stumbling with my direction.  And I am mad at myself for letting him do this to me over and over... .but for some reason, I do feel for the first time in a long time, my blood starting to flow again... .it's almost tingling, and empowering. I think it's the writing of all this out... .and the constant non-judgmental support I get here.   I do often feel like those girls you see in the bad horror movies, that will venture out to the woods or an abandoned shed alone because they heard screaming... .and you sit and watch them, and say... .wow why would they do that?  I feel sometimes, my friends saying they don't judge and are there for me, but still may judge a bit... .but I am embarrassed to tell them the details, because it sounds crazy when I hear myself say it out loud.  I used to be like them too... .strong minded, and able to tell someone to get lost without a second thought.

Yes, I am still grieving, and feeling FOG, but in some avenue of my brain, I feel that there is a direction that I need to follow... FOR ME.  Of course that is the hard part... .learning to get there!   
As always... .thank you, thank you, thank you!

[VitaminC]

Good, Roselee! You can do this. I think I have a sense of where you are, because I was there myself, just a few months ago. It's amazing how much we can lose ourselves and how deeply. But you are still in there and waking up and coming out, stretching and yawning a little from your sleep. 

So what are you going to do? How about finding a therapist - someone with whom you can talk face to face on a regular basis to have that instant sense of non-judgemental support that you get here? Can you do that for yourself?

[Roselee]

Yes... .I am currently looking for a Therapist.  I just am hopeful to have peace in my brain, heart (and phone ;/ ) while I'm pursuing this, and desperately trying to push away that FOG.

[Roselee]

I wanted to share this Parable with everyone... .I love it, other's may too.

The Parable of the Pencil

Once upon a time, there was a woodworker who often made pencils. He always told his pencils the same thing before putting the final touches on them…

“There are five things you need to know before I send you off into the world,” said woodworker. “Always remember them, and you will become the best pencil you can be.”

One:   You will be able to do many great things, but only if you allow yourself to be held in hand.
Two:   You will experience a painful sharpening from time to time, but you’ll need it to become a better pencil.
Three: You will be able to correct any mistakes you might make.
Four:   The most important part of you will always be what’s inside.
Five:    On every surface you are used on, you must leave your mark. No matter what the condition, you must continue to write.

The pencils understood the cobbler’s instructions, and nestled themselves in their pencil boxes. They had a strong sense of feeling of purpose, value, and meaning.

[VitaminC]

One:   You will be able to do many great things, but only if you allow yourself to be held in hand.

Nice. What hand do we need to allow ourselves to be held in, would you say? The rest of them make sense to me, but this one makes me wonder a bit. 

[Roselee]

Agreed!  It originally said "someone's "  and I took that out, because didn't agree with that too much... .then I saw it with saying God's hand... .I like that idea better.

[Roselee]

So, It's been a couple weeks since I last posted.  And basically I am a complete mess.  I thought I was doing good... .having some bad and sad lonely days, but trying to figure myself out.  I had come to realize that friends are there for you... .but at the end of the day, they have husbands and lives to go back to and I have an empty house.  I was and still am in such a slump... .I just can't snap out of it. I don't talk to my friends about it anymore, if they ask, I just say I'm fine and don't go into it... .I feel they are looking at me as pathetic now.  But again... .they have husbands to go home to.
 My BPDex has said he has had an epiphany now... and has been reading articles and books on how to control his temper and his thoughts.  He wrote me a two page letter saying how he knows he ruined everything and wants to do whatever he needs to do to make it up to me.  That he's never felt what he feels for me before for anyone.  Saying all the right things... .via text, because I had his calls rejected thru my phone. He even wrote, sang and played (he plays guitar) for me a song, a beautiful song, asking forgiveness and how he knows what he's done.

I agreed to meet with him last weekend... .I also brought with me some other items of his that were at my house to return to him.  He looked different, calm, sincere... .I was telling him that I now am the person with the trust issues. I don't trust that he won't revert back to his sarcasm, and nastiness, and jealousy.  I don't know what to believe anymore... .and actually I do believe that he is trying and really does understand that he what he did and had done many times to me in the past was abusive (verbally). He swears he understands that... and has worked on channeling his thoughts. Still too soon for me to believe.

He has agreed to not call me still and if he wants to he'll text asking if he can.  I'm still in that mode of being worried what I say will get twisted around... .or hearing that tone from his voice... .that had always set off alarms previously with me knowing what was coming next. I spoke with him a little today because I stayed home from work with a terrible cold, had a fever etc.  In the past he would get annoyed for some reason if I took a day off for my own use.  So when he heard that I was home... .he asked if he could come over... .?  And I said no, I'm sick, and he said, well, you seemed like you wanted to take a day off earlier this week anyway. On a side note, I am very unhappy with my job, and am currently looking and interviewing, and I have several vacation days left that I mentioned I need to take prior to leaving my job. So, I'm guessing in his mind, he feels that I planned this.  Again that old alarm was starting to ring a bit for me.  But, clearly, I'm sick anyway.

I don't know if at this point, I am the one who is being paranoid?  Am I reading into everything? That is why I cannot talk to him on the phone... .but how much longer can this go on?  I know that at some point he will lose patience with me... .am I subliminally wanting that?  Why can't I walk away from him?  I get anxiety when I think about the Holidays and not sure if I want him around or not.  My girls are coming home this weekend, and I know they will ask me what has been going on.  I will be honest with them... .with my confusion, but also with the fact that I know I'm not ready for any kind of a relationship.  I know that's not fair to him, but he knows this too, I've never hidden this from him.  I never thought one could feel love for someone and have such anxiety as well.  My brain is like a bouncy ball... .some times I feel like... ok, whatever, who cares I'll keep it casual, then I'm thinking... .what are you doing, this is going to fall into the same pattern... .so I pull back again. I am not stable enough to be around him, I can't commit to a single decision with anything.  I have to keep myself busy and involved... .but I am alone at doing so, and then I get depressed over the fact that I am at this point in my life.  I don't feel like my life was supposed to be like this. 
For some crazy reason... .I get sad and lonely when I don't hear from him, then when I do... .I get nervous and have anxiety all over again.  I have been through break ups before... .never have I felt like this afterwards... .what is it... .like a drug withdrawal... .or more like a poison.

[VitaminC]

Glad you're back, Roselee

I'm still in that mode of being worried what I say will get twisted around... .or hearing that tone from his voice... .that had always set off alarms previously with me knowing what was coming next.

From what you've told us here, there is very good reason for you to feel this way - to still be "in that mode".  Don't beat yourself up for this, if you are.

I don't know if at this point, I am the one who is being paranoid?  Am I reading into everything? That is why I cannot talk to him on the phone... .but how much longer can this go on? 

Again, if you are, it's because there is a precedent. Look over your posts here to remind you of what you've been through in the last weeks.

As for how much longer it can go on, the answer is: until you decide you don't want it to anymore. I'm not being flippant!  It's really up to you.

I know that at some point he will lose patience with me... .am I subliminally wanting that?  Why can't I walk away from him?  I get anxiety when I think about the Holidays and not sure if I want him around or not. 

Maybe you are. I think I did. I waited for the nastiness to come back, because I needed more proof. I couldn't walk away either, not until my emotions caught up enough with my intellectual understanding of what was going on for me.

I don't feel like my life was supposed to be like this. 

What is the life you want? What do you think it's supposed to be like? 

For some crazy reason... .I get sad and lonely when I don't hear from him, then when I do... .I get nervous and have anxiety all over again.  I have been through break ups before... .never have I felt like this afterwards... .what is it... .like a drug withdrawal... .or more like a poison.

This is common! The reason is not "crazy". It has to do with being something very like addicted to a person and to the drama they create for you.

Have you read this? https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle
Will you read through this and tell us what you think, if it resonates? 

[Sadly]

Hi Roselee
I am so sorry you are in this place. Confusions, decisions, rights, wrongs, loneliness, it's so hard. I think from what you have posted you maybe do know what to do but your fear of loneliness makes it harder.
There are some lines of a poem that go " Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee" and that's what your alarm bells are doing, reminding you.
It's all very well him having an epiphany, we all get them, but did he follow his epiphany moment by going into therapy or treatment cos if he didn't it wasn't much of one. Try asking him, see how committed he really is, wait to see some results and not just words, they come cheap. You have friends and family, be with them for the holiday season as much as you can, and when it's tough, think of how he ruined holiday season in the past with his nastiness. I have written similar words to yours about how I felt about myself, weak, pathetic, lost the real me and was assured by many here that I wasn't, and that I would find me again and I am doing  so can you   xx

[Roselee]

Thank you both for your thoughts and advise!  Always makes me feel not alone, and a bit stronger!

A quick update... .He sent me a text this morning. He had asked me to go with him earlier this week, (when he was wanting to spend his life with me again) to go see these puppies from a breeder.  I had always suggested in the past that he get a puppy.  Earlier this week, he was asking me to check out breeders... .which I did (I know, I shouldn't have).  Anyway, he also mentioned to me that his son is asking him to go on this cruise that he is going on with his mother and family and also his other son.  I asked him if he would feel comfortable going on a cruise with his Ex-wife?  He agreed he wasn't sure. 
Well, the text I rec'd this morning was that he was going to go to the breeders this weekend, about a hr and 1/2 trip, because he forgot to tell me they called him back yesterday.  And that his son asked him again if he wants to go on the cruise with them, and he's saying he might do so... .cause "what does he have to lose?"

I feel this is a follow up game of his. Mind games. I don't know how to answer... .other than say... .ok, have fun. I know it is stemming from me being home sick yesterday and not letting him come over.  He always had an issue of me taking a day off.  I honestly don't care if he goes this weekend... .that's fine... .and I have no care that he's going on a cruise. He's asking if I'm mad at him or something. Again... .mind games!

[Sadly]

Yep, sounds like mind games to me too. Next thing he'll be asking you to look after his puppy while he goes on the family cruise. I don't know love. Once during a break up mine told me he was going to Holland for 6 months work in three weeks time. We got back together and it turns out he hadn't even responded to work offer and had no intention of going. x

[Roselee]

So this weekend I saw my ex... .I guess I am just a glutten!  I know I was on edge the whole weekend, and I know he was picking up on that.  Constantly asking me if I liked him, then turning it to "you don't like me anymore". I was feeling uneasy with his comments and questions, and had that wanting to be alone feeling.  One thing that made me realize that he's not really trying as hard as he said he was, was this example: I had put a bottle of wine  that he bought (it had bubbles) in the refrigerator, he had opened it, tasted some, and I put it in the fridge. When he went back in to get it, the cork had blown off I'm guessing because I put it on it's side and the pressure of the bubbles. Anyway, it was a complete mess all through my refrigerator and leaked out onto the floor. He got annoyed, asking 'who put the wine in the fridge like that".  Being it was only he and I, obviously it was me, and I said so. So now I was annoyed with myself, and this huge mess, but I stayed quiet because I was getting that old feeling again that something was going to start.  Then he accused me of having an "F'ng flipping attitude", not sure how, when I didn't even say a word.
During the whole weekend there were just comments that were made that were making me uncomfortable, and I just wanted to be alone at that point. Saying how it was "odd" that my friends didn't contact me, and so on and so forth. Nothing terribly terrible, but I guess I am just on a state of high alert anymore, and I react with the littlest of things that he may do now.  I told him this morning that I am not ready to have any kind of a relationship again, I thought I might be, but I'm not. And at this point I know it's not fair to him. He went on his usual of how I am playing him, and stringing him along. And how I constantly push him away etc. I did mention to him that being that he keeps accusing me of cheating, that I think he may have cheated on me.
So this morning he went through his normal texts that he's pissed again now, and saying some mean things. Then calling 3 times in a row... .then sending a text that he's going to the hospital now, because something is not right, his chest hurts and he can't breathe. I just don't know what to believe with him. I am so drained again. If I show I care about him going to the hospital, if that is actually true, then will he see it as a chance? I honestly just don't know if he's telling me the truth or not. I'm angry and bitter, and I'm just so tired of playing this game with him. I definitely feel stronger this time, I just hope I can hold on to that strength!

[C.Stein]

I'm angry and bitter, and I'm just so tired of playing this game with him.

Then I have to ask, why are you "playing the game"?  Is this what you want for yourself, to be in a constant "state of high alert"?

[VitaminC]

So this morning he went through his normal texts that he's pissed again now, and saying some mean things. Then calling 3 times in a row... .then sending a text that he's going to the hospital now, because something is not right, his chest hurts and he can't breathe. I just don't know what to believe with him. I am so drained again.

Keep noticing the pattern, Roselee.

If I show I care about him going to the hospital, if that is actually true, then will he see it as a chance?

Maybe. Does he have a chance? I think that's up to you. You could always say something like "ok, if your chest hurts, it's probably a really good idea to get it checked out. I hope you'll be ok." You're not a doctor and you're not his mom. So it's up to him to get himself medical care, if he needs it.

I honestly just don't know if he's telling me the truth or not.

Given all that's happened, that's perfectly understandable.  Remember the story of the little boy who cried wolf. The final time the villagers didn't believe him and he got gobbled up by a wolf. (No disrespect to any wolves here or in nature - they're wonderful creatures who don't eat humans).

If we continually misrepresent things, we have to expect to reap what we sow. We have to expect that people will eventually tire of it and not believe us anymore.  

[Roselee]

I am hurting terribly this past week.  And I know alot of it has been from my exBPD head games.  He has been awful with his words to me.  After I saw him, and he started getting pissed at me again, I realized that I am stressed when with him, but for some crazy reason sad when without.  He has been awful to me this past week.  Crazy cycling... .I mean within minutes going from saying he knows I'm a good person to saying I'm a F'n liar, player, cheat, homewrecker etc., then back to wanting to just get back together and saying "why can't we just buy a house by a lake and live there and love each other while we still have time left".  Sounds like a wonderful thing... .but minutes later I'm a liar again.
 Then he proceeds to tell me that he has a date, with a friend of sister, whom he also dated when he was in his 20's.  I got mad, all this time he's been harassing me with awful texts, and voice mails, but planning a date with someone else. I copied a bunch of his vile texts that he sent to me back to him.  His response was to stop sending that stuff it's hurting him?
Obviously he's been talking to this girl all the time he's been begging me to come back.  He blames me, saying I'm the catalyst, what do I expect him to do, it's the only way he can forget me and get me out of his head.  I feel so angry and betrayed, mostly because of all the guilt and confusion, grief, sadness he has given me, all the while been talking with someone else.  Then today, again another barrage of texts, and finally I respond saying that I don't want to respond for fear it will open up flood gates of what he is doing right now... .and I say to let me be.  He responds to stop texting him, that I'm harassing him!  Right now, all I feel like doing is sending him nasty texts... .and being just as sarcastic and nasty and mean as he was and is to me. But I'm literally keeping my phone far away, and busying myself and coming here to post, so I don't do anything stupid.  I hate him for what he's done to me.  I'm going to see a doctor tomorrow, because I feel that I can't even function anymore. I cry all the time. I can't focus on work. He has damaged me to my core.  And I know it's my fault for letting this happen and falling for his kind words and tears over and over. I'm at a stage now where I need professional help.  He apparently went as well... .all though text me saying what a waste it was and now he's worse and broker for it.
I am just sick with the thought that he actually has a date! I can't seem to wrap my head around the fact that every day for the past 2 months he's been begging, texting, calling, leaving voice mails, sending me songs, writing letters, swearing and promising he will spend every day until eternity to prove that he can be a better person. And quite possibly all this time he's been chatting with someone else!  AND accusing me of doing just that!
After the last time I saw him, and we were getting along, I mentioned that my girlfriend invited me and my other girlfriend to go to her timeshare with her for a few days, it's in the Bahamas.  I told him that this was spoken about during the really bad time that I had no intention of ever speaking or seeing him again.  Both my girlfriends are married and their husbands have no issue with it.  The only cost to me is airfare.  He lost it.  Saying that I am going with a guy, I've been lying to him for years and so on.  I did feel guilty about going, but my daughters and friends looked at me like I had 3 heads and said there is no reason to feel guilty about it.  And asked if he were asked to go to something like that, how would I feel? I said, well he did have the opportunity to go on a cruise, and I told him he should go. 
I'm just in such a bad place right now.  I've never felt like this... .so tormented. Very betrayed, angry, confused, and really, really would love to be able to STOP crying.  I just gotta get a grip.  I just don't even know why I'm crying.  I know I'm hurt from his words, and his cycling. And maybe because I know I can't take him back.  I just can't keep putting myself though this over and over.  So why do I keep crying, and when will it ever end?

[bunny4523]

Roselee,

By any chance are you angry, upset and hurt because you went along with something that you didn't want to do to make him feel better just to find out he wasn't being upfront with you?

That's the thing with pwBPD, they are always looking out for themselves.  Their feelings are more important to them than anyone else's so his turn around is not surprising to me at all. 

I think you need to do what is best for you, you've said that you do not want to be in a relationship with him.  So let him go and be distracted with this other woman.  Maybe while he is busy with that, some of the FOG will clear in your own mind.  The no contact is suggested as a way for you to stay focused on your needs, feelings and desires. 

Once you decide to end it and move on, your healing will begin.  Your hurting so badly because you are indecisive and in limbo.  That is when I am at my worst too... .when I'm confused.  Make a decision and stick with it.

Hope your able to make some sense of this.  I know how hurtful his behavior is but the only way to stop it is to get away from him.  You will continue to feel this pain as long as you keep him in your life.

xoxo,
Bunny

[VitaminC]

* ... .within minutes going from saying he knows I'm a good person to saying I'm a F'n liar, player, cheat, homewrecker etc., then back to wanting to just get back together and saying "why can't we just buy a house by a lake and live there and love each other while we still have time left". 

*Sounds like a wonderful thing... .but minutes later I'm a liar again.

*I copied a bunch of his vile texts that he sent to me back to him.  His response was to stop sending that stuff it's hurting him?

*He blames me, saying I'm the catalyst, what do I expect him to do, it's the only way he can forget me and get me out of his head. 

*I feel so angry and betrayed, mostly because of all the guilt and confusion, grief, sadness he has given me, all the while been talking with someone else. 

*... .I say to let me be.  He responds to stop texting him, that I'm harassing him!


*I am just sick with the thought that he actually has a date!

*I can't seem to wrap my head around the fact that every day for the past 2 months he's been begging, texting, calling, leaving voice mails, sending me songs, writing letters, swearing and promising he will spend every day until eternity to prove that he can be a better person. And quite possibly all this time he's been chatting with someone else!  AND accusing me of doing just that!

*I know I'm hurt from his words, and his cycling. And maybe because I know I can't take him back. 

I'm sorry to read all this, Roselee. I know this is hard, because I've been in a very similar place to what you describe.

And let me remind you, that in one of your very first posts here, you described a really similar scenario.

I read your words, and I read my own situation just last February / March. At the time I was deep in it and did not see how it would ever resolve. It was exhausting and interfered with everything in my life. I thought I was going nuts. Very, very stressful.

This has become the established pattern now. There is no trust between you.  His fears of abandonment have been activated and he's on high red alert and in a frenzy of wanting what he wants and being afraid of not getting it and finding ways to comfort himself and constantly, perhaps above all, finding ways to blame someone else for all of it.  He's in a panic and creating one in you. You are, actually, co-creating this, believe it or not.

I think I told you that after an emotional and sweet break up, I actually brought my ex back in after an acquaintance of mine reacted with widened eyes and a sparkly smile when I mentioned that I'd broken it off.  Yep.  The thought that the two of them might end up together made me bring him back.  Not my proudest moment of self-care.  Even though I was relieved to be out, I felt so jealous at the thought of him with someone else, that I invited him back into my life to do us both another few months of damaging drama.

So, in case you feel you've made mistakes, I think mine trumps yours 

Point is, you will stop crying, when you're ready. FromHeelToHeal said it really beautifully in a post a few days ago:  "Crying is what Pain leaving feels like".  If I'd thought of it that way, back when I was doing a bunch of crying, I might have felt the good it was doing me.

[Roselee]

You both have really hit the nail on the head!  Bunny, you saying that I have been going along with something that I wasn't sure I wanted to to make him feel better, and actually him feeling better made me feel better, for the loss of the guilt he was making me feel... .really turned a light on for me.  Then just to have him throw in my face that he going on a date.
 And Vitamin C, thank you for sharing that story with me of you taking your ex back. I can absolutely see myself doing that same thing!  I have one girlfriend who has said what a nice guy he is... .and that everyone liked him, he was so fun etc... .and then to add, "well, do you really want to sit around and hear the crickets all day instead?"  Crazy how it really made me diminish the abuse I had already taken & think that maybe I was just not being understanding, and not knowing how to handle him.  I do not enjoy being this unstable in my thoughts.  And this morning I receive a text from him saying "Good Luck today".  I thought he was being sarcastic, because yesterday he was saying my Dr appt was really a date... .and again I'm a liar.  But then he followed up with this long apologizing text how me truly loves me and is truly sorry for his scrambled brain, and he misses me, how he wants to start life with me somewhere, and now he doesn't care if I am with someone or not, he just wants to be with me, and no one else will do, he's no good without me.  I did not respond. I have nothing to add or say to any of that.  I went to the Dr today, and she prescribed me medicine for PTSD!  I just can't believe I am in this state! She explained that it's taken 5 1/2 yrs for my brain to get like this, so it's gonna have to take time for it to reprogram.  Very depressing to hear that actually.  Every day I just hope I get stronger and remain that way!
You guys are so helpful to me!