attachment styles

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I am just beginning to investigate attachment styles as I have a feeling that they are very important, and I understand very little.

Throughout my life I have struggled (and mainly failed) to create a loving stable ralationship. The latest story is to my STBexw a pwuB/NPD.

As is well covered on many other threads, I found great attraction/deep 'love' to this person wBPD during the wonderful early days THis was great news for me because it signalled the presence of the much sought after loving and stable r/s. I was happy and content, which is in strict contrast to my 'normal' experiences. My normal experience, once I have found a potential SO, and this person begins to show an interest towards me is to run. Just get out. Perhaps I need to explain more, but I can't. Some inner system says danger get out!

It would seem I want to be 'liked' but once the good attention is actually directed at me I feel extremely uncomfortable and want out. What normally happens next is the potential SO gets angry at me for my confusing behaviour. I like it even less when someone is angry at me, so what do I do... .I back track, head back into the r/s and calm the situation. Good temporary result; I have got rid of the angry person, but my feeling of discomfort in the r/s is still present. So we will recycle. This scenario will cycle around for a while with very disatisfying results.

So looking at this I generally tend to run from r/s, yet I attach easily/do not feel threatened by the one that later turns out to be a pwBPD traits.

I still don't get this so any comments most welcome.

Now looking forward, with let's hope a better understanding of me, I think about another SO r/s. (FWIW I have been 3+ years in the whole divorce concept so moving on I feel is appropriate from a learning, detaching and time perspective).

There is one already lurking. A recently divorced friend who I have known for 20+ years. We get on very well together. In fact we had a fling in the early days. And what happened... .half-way through an intimate weekend together I start back peddling, and distancing myself. She notices and tries to calm my fears, and I think to a certain degree she succeeds and the weekend finished OK. The intimate r/s never continued, but we have always stayed in touch. In fact I went to her wedding.

Anyhow here I am putting together the final pieces of my divorce and wondering about a romantic future. Surely with all I have experienced (at the hands of my stbx) and learned (here in particular) my romantic radar should be beeping happily for someone possibly like my divorced friend. No not at all, as down in my guts I still have a desire to withdraw when she shows attention.

But my hurtful stbx still attracts me!

I am trying to work through all the confusing inconsistencies here and come up with some kind of better understanding. One idea would be to expose my real inner feelings to my divorced friend and actually see if being open and vulnerable can help get through some of the emotional barriers I have built around me. And I suppose her reaction will also tell me about any kind of real compatibility.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

If you are still here thanks for reading.

[earlgrey]

I am just beginning to investigate attachment styles as I have a feeling that they are very important, and I understand very little.

Throughout my life I have struggled (and mainly failed) to create a loving stable ralationship. The latest story is to my STBexw a pwuB/NPD.

As is well covered on many other threads, I found great attraction/deep 'love' to this person wBPD during the wonderful early days THis was great news for me because it signalled the presence of the much sought after loving and stable r/s. I was happy and content, which is in strict contrast to my 'normal' experiences. My normal experience, once I have found a potential SO, and this person begins to show an interest towards me is to run. Just get out. Perhaps I need to explain more, but I can't. Some inner system says danger get out!

It would seem I want to be 'liked' but once the good attention is actually directed at me I feel extremely uncomfortable and want out. What normally happens next is the potential SO gets angry at me for my confusing behaviour. I like it even less when someone is angry at me, so what do I do... .I back track, head back into the r/s and calm the situation. Good temporary result; I have got rid of the angry person, but my feeling of discomfort in the r/s is still present. So we will recycle. This scenario will cycle around for a while with very disatisfying results.

So looking at this I generally tend to run from r/s, yet I attach easily/do not feel threatened by the one that later turns out to be a pwBPD traits.

I still don't get this so any comments most welcome.

Now looking forward, with let's hope a better understanding of me, I think about another SO r/s. (FWIW I have been 3+ years in the whole divorce concept so moving on I feel is appropriate from a learning, detaching and time perspective).

There is one already lurking. A recently divorced friend who I have known for 20+ years. We get on very well together. In fact we had a fling in the early days. And what happened... .half-way through an intimate weekend together I start back peddling, and distancing myself. She notices and tries to calm my fears, and I think to a certain degree she succeeds and the weekend finished OK. The intimate r/s never continued, but we have always stayed in touch. In fact I went to her wedding.

Anyhow here I am putting together the final pieces of my divorce and wondering about a romantic future. Surely with all I have experienced (at the hands of my stbx) and learned (here in particular) my romantic radar should be beeping happily for someone possibly like my divorced friend. No not at all, as down in my guts I still have a desire to withdraw when she shows attention.

But my hurtful stbx still attracts me!

I am trying to work through all the confusing inconsistencies here and come up with some kind of better understanding. One idea would be to expose my real inner feelings to my divorced friend and actually see if being open and vulnerable can help get through some of the emotional barriers I have built around me. And I suppose her reaction will also tell me about any kind of real compatibility.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

If you are still here thanks for reading.

[Grey Kitty]

Seems like two separate but related problems:

the potential SO gets angry at me for my confusing behaviour. I like it even less when someone is angry at me, so what do I do... .I back track, head back into the r/s and calm the situation.

It sounds like you kinda understand this one, and think you might be able to stop yourself next time. If nothing else, the   red flags of an abusive relationship and a BPD/NPD behavior is something you've read a LOT about on these forums, and should have some idea how to identify... .and if you don't trust yourself, post stories about the next woman you start dating here on this board, and we can help you find any red flags that might be there.

Not that you sound ready today; I'm just saying you have the tools to protect yourself from this in front of you. Perhaps you don't need to worry quite so much about this.

My normal experience, once I have found a potential SO, and this person begins to show an interest towards me is to run. Some inner system says danger get out!

This sounds more interesting, and like you don't even know where to start. A few ideas... .I recommend you address these feelings in a safe place. Here. With a therapist. (Do you have one?) With a trusted friend or family member that you are already emotionally vulnerable with.

One idea would be to expose my real inner feelings to my divorced friend and actually see if being open and vulnerable can help get through some of the emotional barriers I have built around me.

I don't recommend her--she was in a (brief) r/s with you. She's now available for a r/s. I'm not saying she isn't trustworthy here--I'm saying that she probably has a conflict of interest--she wants to be in a relationship with you.

You want to go to somebody whose only interest in your relationships is caring about your wellbeing, who won't be personally impacted by your choice of who to be in a r/s with, or your choice to stay out of them for a while.

No not at all, as down in my guts I still have a desire to withdraw when she shows attention.

Can you say anything more about those feelings or fears?

When do you first remember feeling that way?

[earlgrey]

Hi GK and many thanks for your questions.

Firstly I don't have a T at present (found a couple of real generalists but no-one who was familiar with this territory) - all my help comes from reading and many useful exchanges on these boards - so a big thx to all 

Can you say anything more about those feelings or fears?

When do you first remember feeling that way?

I have been rumaging around in my early days with FOO, basically I learnt nothing about emotions, empathy, love, needs being met. We were fed and clothed and told to go about our business. So I did, and at age 18 I went off to college as a very autonomous emotion free young man.

Now I look at early adult romantic relationships (I imagine even now, experiences at this age were not going to effect me, but looking now I am not so sure... .?)

r/s #1 female friend with benefits she dumps me no trauma (age 19)
r/s #2 female friend with benefits I do the dumping no trauma
r/s #3 I fall desperately 'in love' out of nowhere. THIS IS GOOD. We travel europe together end up 'living together' , it is unrequited and we never have sex. Start to finish 6 weeks. She is emotionally unavailable and due to marry when she returns to home country. I know this but just enjoy being with her. She leaves, I really struggle for several months and then move on too. In the process I have build myself a template for how one should feel (fantastic) when one is with the right person.

r/s #4 attempt new 'serious' r/s. (age 23) Don't get the buzz so don't commit. GF hits me with guilt and anger, I respond to the anger etc and rush back in. We cycle this process for some time. She wants marriage I can't say no, so really really struggle and get married depsite my own unwillingness. This whole process causes me a great deal of grief, I don't know when trauma is appropriate but this whole experience was extremely difficult for me totally beyond what I was prepared for. I handle it as best I could in an already foreign country with no family or real support about. Once married I move to work in yet another country she divorces me.

No I see this #4 as also being a (bad) template former in my way of coping. Unable to say no and assert my wishes I will now prefer to not get close enough to find myself in a position where my SO will make demands of me that I am unable to manage. So I avoid... .

I tiptoe aroung several other r/s always with more or less the same technique, running away when attention is turned on... .it is never satisfactory.

Until I meet latest in a list of SO; uBPDstbx. All I can see here is that she also displays emotional unavailability (EU), which I am now beginning to think is somthing I appreciate in a partner. In the early days of our r/s I probably didn't even notice the EU, but as the r/s progressed, which it could becuase I wasn't feeling obligated to deliver anything, I would begin to look for some exchange... .but no nothing, for this SO EU is EU right the way through, so then, with my requests for some emotional exchange I was just put down as needy and insecure, which is quite probably not me at all.

This seems to make some sense to me. So to be able to control the running away, I am going to have to be able to say what I want in a r/s. Which actually doesn't sound that terrifying, and may actually open up a whole new territory in the dating world.

GK thanks for the prompts - and please promt again by all means. 

[Grey Kitty]

Your FOO sounds a bit like mine. Probably a bit worse. There was no real emotional openness or vulnerability, but support was there at a physical level and covering surface emotional needs. (And I later noticed, some serious invalidation of deeper feelings that weren't acknowledged directly.)

So what can you do about emotional unavailability?

I'm going to suggest you challenge yourself to be more vulnerable--pushing yourself through some of that. And not just in a romantic relationship. I started with that with my stbexwife, early in our marriage (before her BPD behavior got intense), and later built on some of that while needing support from friends during the abuse--that really deepened a few friendships.

I've found that this kind of emotional connection was much easier to make with women than men in general, and most of my close friends are women these days. And no, there isn't anything romantic going on with any of them. A few that I engage in some playful flirting with, although we both know that it is all in fun and not going anywhere. A couple that I could be interested in if they were interested and available, but that isn't the basis of the friendship. Mostly, these are the friends who were a lifeline for me when I was dealing with the end of my marriage.

I want to keep these friends close, and expect that I will be leaning on them for advice when I jump/fall into my next romantic relationship.

I'm guessing you don't have that kind of friends (of either gender). Perhaps in your circle of friends/acquaintances there are two or three that seems more likely to be a good candidate. Can you identify them?

... .for this SO EU is EU right the way through, so then, with my requests for some emotional exchange I was just put down as needy and insecure, which is quite probably not me at all.

Wanting that connection isn't needy and insecure.
Being told (especially in an abusive r/s!) that you are being needy and insecure doesn't make it true.
Asking for emotional connection can be done in ways that are needy and insecure... .or ways that aren't. Any idea which you did?

And yes, you do want that kind of connection in your next romantic partner. The change will feel uncomfortable and awkward, but be worth it. And you will probably find yourself attracted to women who display various levels of emotional unavailability for a while now--don't be surprised if it turns out that way.

[earlgrey]

So what can you do about emotional unavailability?

I'm going to suggest you challenge yourself to be more vulnerable--pushing yourself through some of that. And not just in a romantic relationship. I started with that with my stbexwife, early in our marriage (before her BPD behavior got intense), and later built on some of that while needing support from friends during the abuse--that really deepened a few friendships.

Hi GK, very happy to listen to your thoughts, but I don't quite get what you are suggesting here (bold-above). Please expand.

Apart from the recently divorced friend (that you suggested not to 'use' I have two other girl friends (much like yourself)... .not romantically linked with whom I do have good discussions. One is very open the other is pretty good up to certain limits and then resorts to stereotype and has no real willingness to grasp ideas like BPD ... .but still on my side!

Wanting that connection isn't needy and insecure.
Being told (especially in an abusive r/s!) that you are being needy and insecure doesn't make it true.
Asking for emotional connection can be done in ways that are needy and insecure... .or ways that aren't. Any idea which you did?

Yep I think I said something like 'I need some love' (OK I may have said you don't give me any love!)... .to which the reply (script) went 'I cant' give it but if you want it come and get it *' (like I suppose I could go and fill a bucket up to keep me going for a while) or ' if you don't expect anything (love) you won't be disappointed'. These replies go back 5 years, and even today as we sometimes pull apart why we are where we are, the script still reads the same. I guess she was being quite 'honest' in her words but it didn't actually solve the problem.

* actually what I think she was implying was come and have physical love (sex), which was always available and always no more than functional.

[Grey Kitty]

Never mind the question about being needy and insecure. The whole dynamic in an abusive relationship is to make you that way, and also berate you for being that way. Sigh. (Ask me how I know... .)

Being vulnerable is what you are doing here, sharing what you are feeling. Here it is safe because we are anonymous--I don't know who you are, and wouldn't recognize you on the street if I stopped you and asked for directions. And if you don't login again, I'll never see you here again. So what you are sharing with me (and other members) isn't a risk.

Sharing like this with your stbexw would be really bad judgement--sooner or later, she would use this to hurt you more.

Sharing this kind of thing with another person is being more vulnerable. It is a risk. And it is how you build a deeper connection with this person. Or perhaps how you learn that this person isn't as safe as you thought when you find yourself getting hurt. There is the risk.

When I've got something that is driving me nuts or tearing me up, I'm blessed to have a handful of friends I might talk to for support. Picking somebody comes down to a few issues... .

First, do I think the person is safe--can I trust them not to hurt me, since I will be vulnerable? (As I said, I'm blessed to have several that pass this test)

Second, is this a safe subject for that person?

If they have a personal interest in it, asking them to set that aside while they support you is asking an awful lot, and even if this friend tries, something may sneak in. For example, sharing your fears about connecting to somebody with a person you are thinking of connecting with.

Less personal circumstances might apply for example, if you are fretting about how to invest or spend a significant bonus that you just got, and your friend is desperately poor and upset about it, she would be a poor choice.

the other is pretty good up to certain limits and then resorts to stereotype and has no real willingness to grasp ideas like BPD ... .but still on my side!

It is usually best to leave the specific BPD support to people who understand it. This forum. People with a mental health background. A therapist would qualify. I've got a several friends qualify; some who have their own mental health issues which they are managing/coping with well, others that have professional experience. A couple with both, even.

I guess the last one is whether this person is available when you need the support. I wouldn't normally bother a friend at work, for example.

And trusting somebody--being vulnerable with them doesn't require you to jump straight into the deep end. You can open up somewhat slowly, starting with something smaller or less scary to share, and see how they respond.

Does this help you understand?