Knowing you're making it worse...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Ok... .so I know that with my marriage to my uBPD/NPDw in its death throws going out with a friend last night only was going to make things worse... .and then not responding to the FOG when she tried to pull me back by saying I needed to drive her kids where ever, because I knew she was home and perfectly capable of doing that was only going to increase the fall out even more... .but I also know that if I'd come home it wouldn't have been a nice night, that I would still be unappreciated, blamed for something and end the night walking once again on egg shells... .even though I did EVERYTHING she wanted... .

Anyone else get to a point where you just don't want to continue playing that losing game... .no matter how scary the process looks?

NS

[NewStart]

Ok... .so I know that with my marriage to my uBPD/NPDw in its death throws going out with a friend last night only was going to make things worse... .and then not responding to the FOG when she tried to pull me back by saying I needed to drive her kids where ever, because I knew she was home and perfectly capable of doing that was only going to increase the fall out even more... .but I also know that if I'd come home it wouldn't have been a nice night, that I would still be unappreciated, blamed for something and end the night walking once again on egg shells... .even though I did EVERYTHING she wanted... .

Anyone else get to a point where you just don't want to continue playing that losing game... .no matter how scary the process looks?

NS

[fromheeltoheal]

Anyone else get to a point where you just don't want to continue playing that losing game... .no matter how scary the process looks?

Pretty much everyone on the Detaching board is done playing that game NewStart; are you ready to be done?

[sad but wiser]

Yes!  You just get overloaded.  Mine used to say I wouldn't be a help to him if he broke me.  Weird, right?  It is healthy to have limits.  It is also best to act, not react. Best of luck.

[NewStart]

Well, had a great night around a firepit with friends/neighbors tonight and walked home... .I was energized and thought things were looking up... .she said, "You know, I hate your f$&@ing guts... ."

NS

[Mutt]

Hi NewStart,

I stayed in a marriage that I was unhappy with. I can relate with your post. I recall dreading that it was quitting time and I didnt want to go back home because I didn't know what kind of mood that I would find my ex wife in. The same goes for weekends off and vacations, I didn't want to spend time with her because she might attack me for something I had no idea what she was talking about.

It was miserable.

I was scared to leave for a few reasons. I wanted to stay close to the kids because she was focusing her attacks on me, I could absorb it and maybe the kids wouldn't get the brunt of it. I didn't want to start over, or be alone or have to date again.

I'm on the other side of the chasm, and I'll  tell you it's a lot better  Breaking up was really hard, but short pain for long term gain.

You mentioned that the process looks scary. Can you elaborate?

[NewStart]

Mutt,
Sounds very familiar, like this morning my wife just stared in with accusations that defy reason so I just don't even comment. We were out of coffee so I went to the store... .so of course I must have met up with my girlfriend? I'm on my phone, "what are you looking at your dating app?" I took my sons cloths out of the dryer before they were dry so he had to put them back in, so she starts in on me saying that I thought they were her sons cloths and I did it on purpose to be mean to him and it backfired... .and on and on... .

All just crazy thoughts and accusations that don't even merit a response, so she gets mad I don't argue a senseless point... .but the real crazy part is I can tell she catches herself sometimes and says something nice or engaging just enough for metothink, wait maybe the woman I fell in love with is back? But, nope she goes right back to crazy talk... .

Well the process looks scary on lots of fronts. Financial hit, being alone, moving from where I've lived for 15+ years... .maybe I'm just lazy and don't want to do all the work that's going to be involved... .

At this point it really is just "crazy" as it's nonsensical accusation after nonsensical accusation day in and day out... .

[fromheeltoheal]

So are you committing to detaching from her or are you still deciding NS?

[Mutt]

Its not an easy choice, it can be a long decision making process, analyzing all of the details in a r/s but fundamentally you have a right to be happy.

I think that you're probably sick and tired of this daily routine of her blame shifting and absolving herself of adult responsibilities, she's an adult and she can take care of herself, where do you see yourself in two years, five years?

I understand that change and unfamiliarity can be a scary proposition but isn't also exciting to do whatever you feel like doing? A fresh start where you have some peace and quiet, doing the things that you like doing without being emotionally blackmailed? Being in a r/s where there's respect, reciprocity, trust.

If she's not willing to get help for herself, what do you see changing? I think that she knows that she can get you to take care of the kids for her, I'd suggest to take a look at your boundaries there and set limits, but you're probably going to get a lot of push back there, for awhile anyways.

[NewStart]

Yeah, I'm kind of undecided, but I know what she says she wants and what would ultimately be better for me... .and that is walking away from this and not looking back... .

Yes I need to push back boundaries. Typical of her reactions I didn't drive her kids around on Friday evening because I had plans and she was home and capable... .so she said I'm now cooking dinner every night my kids are with us and buying the groceries those weeks too... .shifting already decided budget to me further squeezing me financially... .

I guess I should just say no, buy the groceries and I'll cook? I don't know, it's once again such childish garbage, and the kicker her 7 year old daughter sits there and goes "yeah Chris and your buying too! And why don't you go watch that game in the garage!"  Learned behavior ya think?

I'm trying to see what I'm getting out of this relationship... .

[sad but wiser]

Hi guys,
  You are not crazy for thinking carefully about detaching.  It really is difficult and painful... .as painful as they can possibly make it.  In the long run, it is far better than a lifetime of misery in my opinion.  If you have your own child who isn't with her, you might want to consider what her craziness does to him (or her.)  She is inconsistant and that is scary for a kid.  Luv, luv, luv one day and what was that? the next.  If you have children together, creating a sanctuary for them might actually help more than deflecting.  I'm not sure.  I did deflecting, but that meant I wasn't there as a mom as much, either.  (Too busy listening to Mr. Crazy explain it all for hours in circles.)  If you seperate, you can create a safe place where your kids actually get away from her, but you will parent by remote and bear most of the burden at the same time.  I have a friend who went this route.  She sets them and him up for failure all the time.  So, tough call.  Instinct says get custody and run to a far away place.  Reality kucks in and it's all pretty stressful.

[NewStart]

Hey,

So we don't have children together, I have two boys 15 and 17 and she has a boy 15 and two girls 13 and 7.   

Last night I picked up my 15 year old and he said, ":)ad be brutally honest with me, are you and XYZ getting a divorce?"  So I said, "Why do you ask?"  He said, "Because XYZ treats you like crap everyday and she hates us... ."  I pressed him for more specifics and to paraphrase he basically said all she does is yell at you, make nasty comments and that he doesn't hear her ever say anything nice to us.

We talked quite a bit more and though difficult to know this is affecting my boys too, it was strengthening to know that they saw the same disregulated behaviors.  I didn't pile on or dig for that information, I just listened and let him know things would work out and that it's important to do what we can to be kind and try to work through the process and hope for the best resolution.

NS

[formflier]

 
Good job talking to your kid.  I would suggest taking a read at validation again and think about validating and listening to feelings.  Get into their world and listen.  Reflect back and make sure you understand them.

When you see a "knowledge gap"... .make note to yourself and handle that a future date.

FF

[NewStart]

Hey FF,

I've used all the tools, tired all the validation in the world, changed presentation, floated stuff here before responding etc etc etc.  It has been SO negative, SO gamey day in and day out for SO long that I'm done trying new things.  I will keep the calm head, not engage when being bated, listen and validate when needed. 

What I won't do is continue to defend against crazy accusations or be spoken to like an object instead of a human being.  Boundary number one, treat me with respect or please don't engage me at all.  Final answer... .

I'm giving it ONE last college try by changing the dynamic completely and unless SHE gains TRUE perspective on what she has, unless SHE takes REAL ownership for her actions, unless SHE takes charge to get out and find REAL help... .I'm done as there is NO WAY I will do this day in and day out for the rest of my life.

NS

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm giving it ONE last college try by changing the dynamic completely and unless SHE gains TRUE perspective on what she has, unless SHE takes REAL ownership for her actions, unless SHE takes charge to get out and find REAL help... .I'm done as there is NO WAY I will do this day in and day out for the rest of my life.

So how will you know that has happened or not NS, what specific actions or behaviors have to happen or not, and if they don't, what specific steps will you take and by when?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey NS, I echo those above.  Parting ways, of course, requires a lot of forethought.  At one point towards the end of my marriage, my T asked me if I thought I had tried everything?  I said, "Yes."  She said, "I think so, too."  That was unlike her to share a personal opinion and provided a lightbulb moment for me.   

I admire you for giving it the college try.  There comes a point, I think, when you sense deep down that it's not going to get any better, at which point I suspect you'll know what you have to do.

LuckyJim
 

[NewStart]

So how will you know that has happened or not NS, what specific actions or behaviors have to happen or not, and if they don't, what specific steps will you take and by when?

I don't know and never will, reflecting back it's been years of disreguation ramped up into what is now just a daily onslaught of negative comments, false accusations, double standards, rages, silent treatments, etc etc etc. I'm over with FOG, being forced into actions that if I push back have unreasonable reactions/penalties.

I think at this point I've reasoned, pleaded, validated, listened, acquiesced to many times when I shouldn't have all to get nothing but less respect and more degradation in return... .

At this point I'm feeling that it time for the "Hey if you can't see the amazing up side to what you have here and can't see your role in the breakdown of it, then there really is no more discussion that we need to have".

At my wits end... .

NS

[formflier]

I wasn't clear in my post.

Focus those validation efforts on your kids.  Double down on energy there, especially when they are being open.  Teens can be so moody... .run with it when they are open. 

FF

[NewStart]

FF,

Haha, got it.  My boys are pretty grounded and have solid support from my ex-wife/their mom and their step dad too.  So that being said, I think they'll  be able to roll fairly well with whatever, but yes still going to be a hard process no matter what we end up doing.

Current situation... .told uBPD/NPDw yesterday to be clear that her request for "mediation" isn't counseling and it's not to see if the exit package looks good enough to take.  Mediation is the start of the end, period.  So that being said sje seems to be backpedaling and now saying that through my actions I am obviously pushing that, to which I didn't take the bate I simply stated that I hoped we could each reflect on what we have, what we really want and move forward accordingly, stressing we only get one shot at this so hopefully we make clear and positive choices.

Last night and today... .total silence... .ah the old off balance with silent treatment... .surprise!  Oh wait, no it's not... .

NS

[fromheeltoheal]

So how will you know that has happened or not NS, what specific actions or behaviors have to happen or not, and if they don't, what specific steps will you take and by when?

I don't know and never will, reflecting back it's been years of disreguation ramped up into what is now just a daily onslaught of negative comments, false accusations, double standards, rages, silent treatments, etc etc etc. I'm over with FOG, being forced into actions that if I push back have unreasonable reactions/penalties.

I think at this point I've reasoned, pleaded, validated, listened, acquiesced to many times when I shouldn't have all to get nothing but less respect and more degradation in return... .

At this point I'm feeling that it time for the "Hey if you can't see the amazing up side to what you have here and can't see your role in the breakdown of it, then there really is no more discussion that we need to have".

At my wits end... .

Although above you say "I'm giving it ONE last college try by changing the dynamic completely".  How will you know if that last try is successful or not, and if it's not, what will you do?

There's a lot of power in a real decision, a real decision is one that cuts off any other possibility, and there's a lot of power in committing to that decision, no matter what.

I'm not trying to influence your decision NS, I'm inspiring you to make one, empowering you hopefully, since "at your wits end" is not an empowered place.

[flourdust]

When I was in your situation, I gave myself a deadline. I said that if I didn't see improvement by the end of summer, I would divorce my wife.

Summer came and went, and things did not improve. In fact, they got worse. But, I had to face the fact that I just wasn't ready to pull the trigger. I was too afraid of what divorce would bring. (The FOG manifests in many ways.) So, I extended my deadline to the end of the year, and I used the autumn to research divorce. Knowing that I wasn't allowed to make a decision until January helped ease some of the fear, and gathering actual information also helped reduce it.

In January, I started the process.

[sad but wiser]

Hello all,
   I just want to say that you all sound reasonable and patient here.  It doesn't sound like any of you are doing less than you can to make everything work.  I think you have to be able to draw boundaries and keep your self-respect.  Not even a business relationship can function without that.