Drawn To BPD or Trauma Bonding?

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It's been about 4 months since my ex of 7 years and I broke up for good (no more push/pull since then).

I've tried to casually date one person since, but I just constantly compare her to my ex. After all the chaos of my last r/s, you'd think someone new and different would be refreshing. The new girl is so optimistic, upbeat, hates conflict, just wants to have fun, etc. At first it appealed to me because she made me feel really good about myself at a time when my ex had really made me feel like a disappointment.

But now, (and I hate to say this because it sounds so rude and critical) I just look at the new girl and don't see much depth.
I almost see her constant positivity as a flaw - I have shared with her many of my experiences and my struggles, and as a result, I do have a bit of cynicism, and a darkness to me. But she just sees everything as fine, everything as good, even if it isn't good - even if it's actually a problem that needs to be addressed. I appreciate her optimism, but... .it almost doesn't feel real to me. Her desire to avoid conflict seems to equate to avoiding conversations of any substance altogether. We once had a conversation in which I told her that I'd rather have something be real and bad, than fake and good (something my ex and I always agreed upon). She disagreed. I can't imagine she has never experienced any struggles. But it's like I can't get to her core and get past the whole "everything is great all the time" BS. Truth be told, I'm sure there's much more to her that I just haven't been able to figure out - she seems to have some issues as well, but that's another topic.

Regardless, things like this really make me miss my ex. She had a lot of dark thoughts, but they were real thoughts and interesting thoughts... .she had so much depth. And even though it went hand in hand with pain and struggle, I appreciated it and I loved her passion. Something about the new girl's take on life just feels superficial to me. I feel awful saying that, because she's a very thoughtful, caring person and deserves happiness with someone who loves her for who she is. I'm wondering if anyone else has found themselves in this predicament. Almost idealizing someone who caused you so much pain. While my ex and I were together, I went through phases where my romantic feelings changed after something terrible happened (a rage, hospitalization, etc.). But I always went back to loving her, no matter how awful the things I'd heard and seen were. I still love her so much and realistically I know if she returned, I'd take her back in a heartbeat.

When I think about other people that I may date in the future, I can't even fathom putting up with this sort of behavior. With my ex it's almost made my love for her deeper. I love her more for it. Is this something to do with trauma bonding?

I would find it so unattractive and such a turn-off if the next girl I was trying to date ever did something like this. But with my ex I'm in this odd state of mind where I actually almost... .appreciate it? I feel like it's who she is and shows her emotional depth. Maybe that's justifying it, maybe that's idealizing it, maybe it's the trauma bonding... .I don't know. It's almost like after being in the relationship I've been in for so long and going through the intense experiences that I have, I am just underwhelmed by the prospect of a calm relationship without the heaviness and the intensity. Can anyone else relate?

[JJacks0]

It's been about 4 months since my ex of 7 years and I broke up for good (no more push/pull since then).

I've tried to casually date one person since, but I just constantly compare her to my ex. After all the chaos of my last r/s, you'd think someone new and different would be refreshing. The new girl is so optimistic, upbeat, hates conflict, just wants to have fun, etc. At first it appealed to me because she made me feel really good about myself at a time when my ex had really made me feel like a disappointment.

But now, (and I hate to say this because it sounds so rude and critical) I just look at the new girl and don't see much depth.
I almost see her constant positivity as a flaw - I have shared with her many of my experiences and my struggles, and as a result, I do have a bit of cynicism, and a darkness to me. But she just sees everything as fine, everything as good, even if it isn't good - even if it's actually a problem that needs to be addressed. I appreciate her optimism, but... .it almost doesn't feel real to me. Her desire to avoid conflict seems to equate to avoiding conversations of any substance altogether. We once had a conversation in which I told her that I'd rather have something be real and bad, than fake and good (something my ex and I always agreed upon). She disagreed. I can't imagine she has never experienced any struggles. But it's like I can't get to her core and get past the whole "everything is great all the time" BS. Truth be told, I'm sure there's much more to her that I just haven't been able to figure out - she seems to have some issues as well, but that's another topic.

Regardless, things like this really make me miss my ex. She had a lot of dark thoughts, but they were real thoughts and interesting thoughts... .she had so much depth. And even though it went hand in hand with pain and struggle, I appreciated it and I loved her passion. Something about the new girl's take on life just feels superficial to me. I feel awful saying that, because she's a very thoughtful, caring person and deserves happiness with someone who loves her for who she is. I'm wondering if anyone else has found themselves in this predicament. Almost idealizing someone who caused you so much pain. While my ex and I were together, I went through phases where my romantic feelings changed after something terrible happened (a rage, hospitalization, etc.). But I always went back to loving her, no matter how awful the things I'd heard and seen were. I still love her so much and realistically I know if she returned, I'd take her back in a heartbeat.

When I think about other people that I may date in the future, I can't even fathom putting up with this sort of behavior. With my ex it's almost made my love for her deeper. I love her more for it. Is this something to do with trauma bonding?

I would find it so unattractive and such a turn-off if the next girl I was trying to date ever did something like this. But with my ex I'm in this odd state of mind where I actually almost... .appreciate it? I feel like it's who she is and shows her emotional depth. Maybe that's justifying it, maybe that's idealizing it, maybe it's the trauma bonding... .I don't know. It's almost like after being in the relationship I've been in for so long and going through the intense experiences that I have, I am just underwhelmed by the prospect of a calm relationship without the heaviness and the intensity. Can anyone else relate?

[valet]

I can't relate very directly to your question, but I do see where you're coming from. I think that mainly, both options are one in the same. You were drawn towards your pwBPD first, and then the trauma bond occurred, because you felt safe in that environment. When your world was turned on its head, it turned out that both you and your ex were scraping nails on each other's open core wounds.

The attraction helps set the bond, which turns from the 'good' fantasy bond that we would imagine with our perceived 'ideal' caregiver into the reality that there is no such thing. People are imperfect. Everyone makes mistakes. So really, the borderline relationship challenges and redefines our image of this figure in our minds so much that it almost becomes real to us. Hence the trauma and massive confusion in the aftermath. (We were so close to touching the fantasy that we could almost feel it on our fingertips!)

About your current situation: if you're still making those comparisons that interfere with your judgments of your new partner, I'd say it's time to hit the breaks. You don't have to separate but it sounds like you do need some time to organize your thoughts and develop a plan. Talk this out with someone: a therapist, trusted friend, relative, mentor, the boards here, etc. Find out where you are first. You'll never be able to put your best foot forward with someone new if you are still relating this person to a disordered ex (or any ex at all, for that matter).

Put it this way. You went through an amazingly painful experience. Healing takes time and an environment that supports it. Think about what these things mean to you. It'll make moving forward a lot easier, and I guarantee you'll thank yourself for it later on.

[JJacks0]

Thanks for the input, valet.

You're right, I suppose they are pretty much one in the same. It probably would have helped too to mention that this was my first real relationship. I guess I'm just worried that having nothing else to compare it to, and it being so emotionally intense, nothing else will ever feel right unless it reaches a similar magnitude.

For instance, the initial draw that I had with my ex was so explosive - as many have described here, it was a whirlwind romance, and it took off with a bang. The feelings that I've had for others have never even been remotely close. As you mentioned, I was initially drawn to her personality (BPD traits included) and then became extremely bonded with my ex because of all that we've been through. My main concern is just that a healthier relationship will pale to me in comparison, since this type of high intensity relationship is all I've known.

I agree that I need to get through my own issues here first. The other person that I briefly tried to see in the aftermath has been rather removed from the picture for a while now - she knows that I'm still in love with my ex and that isn't going to change any time soon. She also knows that if I had the opportunity I'd go back to her and try again. Of course that's not what someone you're dating wants to hear, but she asked and I had to be honest. I'm not ready to date anyone new. It's become clear that I really don't stand a chance at ever having a healthy r/s with anyone until I heal.

[woundedPhoenix]

Before i met my BPDex 7 years ago, i had a year to date and find out what i was looking for in a r/s.

I came to two conclusions then.

- It had to be 'True'.
- It had to be with someone who was in a way a bit broken by her past.

It had to be 'True', was a single word that means a lot, i had to feel it deeply and i had to really feel that from my new partner too. It had to come with a very clear and strong wish for commitment and it had to be someone that i could like totally, and who would like me totally too. And i expected to have that sort of connection as a lightning flash instantaniously.

I had to find someone who could relate to my own 'brokenness', not that i have really been abused, but i was aware that my childhood was not 'normal', and that 'normal' people couldn't relate to my own deepness. I had had a six month relationship just before with a healthy, optimistic woman, and i enjoyed the stuff we did together, but it all felt too happy and flat.

In hindsight... .

I was looking for something that was True, and attracted a girl with BPD, who could make it feel True like no-one else, and who wanted to believe it herself, and went to really great lengths to keep that up. And although it felt completely True for many years, i now have to conclude that the person i met was giving me a mirror on what True meant to me, but underneath she was very different. I still struggle to call the whole relationship "False", but it was not what i thought it was.

And i still feel that 'normal' people aren't my match. A relationship that only is positive and joyfull feels like 'something' is missing. Like it is superficial. I really loved those moments where my BPDex could be fragile and show her deepest pains, cause i recognized those, and could feel my own pain alongside her. In the beginning we both even tought this would be a healing relationship for both of us, as we would be able to give eachother what we always missed in life. But it turned out very differently and in some ways we both ended up worse then before... .More wounds to the soul.

So... .I believe these two things still go for me.

- It has to be 'True'.
- It has to be with someone who was in a way a bit broken by her past.

With that difference that i don't want that we 'fix' eachother, but that we support eachother to fix 'ourselves'.
That we don't ruthlessly deny and condemn eachothers shadows, but embrace them with love.

[Grey Kitty]

JJacks0, you probably aren't ready for a serious relationship until you get more over your ex. (Note: constantly comparing this new girl to your ex!) That doesn't mean that a little casual dating is a bad idea, just that it isn't likely to go beyond that until you've had some more time to heal/recover.

The issue of the new girl having no depth is a real one. More important sounding (to me) is that she sounds unable to acknowledge and resolve a conflict, and relationships WILL have conflicts, and they need to be resolved somehow or other.

I've heard several people say something to the effect of "I've got a history of damage/abuse/whatever, and won't be able to relate to / connect with somebody who hasn't lived through that kind of thing like I have."

I don't believe that is true. I do believe that somebody who has lived through it AND HEALED from it is pretty much guaranteed to have some real empathy for others, and that's something I'd look for. But that isn't the only way to find a supportive, emphatic person.

I'm not saying that I'm perfect (HA!), or 100% healed from all I've been through, but I do feel like I'm pretty much "whole" as a person right now, and I want to find somebody else who seems similarly whole/complete. Yes, I've got things to learn, I've got growth still in my future, and I expect my next partner will as well... .but the premise of two wounded souls healing/completing each other doesn't even seem good or romantic to me now!

[hotncold]

The issue of the new girl having no depth is a real one. More important sounding (to me) is that she sounds unable to acknowledge and resolve a conflict, and relationships WILL have conflicts, and they need to be resolved somehow or other.

I agree. In a way it sounds like new girl has figured out how to avoid intimacy altogether, which is what JJacks0 is looking for. I believe that a pwBPD can reach intimacy, the problem is that when it happens they get triggered, so they can't actually sustain and maintain intimacy. So it keeps us in a cycle of always trying to reach that intimate point but getting hit over the head with it. What you want is someone who can reach and maintain intimacy, however if you aren't used to it, you may feel extremely uncomfortable at first. I've had nightmares where I realize that I'm naked or partially undressed in front of people and hadn't realized it, or even that I'm going to the bathroom and suddenly I realize that the bathroom has no walls. I think this is what intimacy might feel like initially to someone who has not experienced it in a healthy way - shameful. A BPD would lash out and scream and yell at the audience, or run and hide, find an audience who hadn't "seen" them and sleep with the new audience, and blame the old audience for everything that went wrong. I think the healthy thing to do is just keep going, no matter how uncomfortable and revealing it feels and stick with people who won't judge you, and who will "see" you - nakedness, love handles, imperfections and all. haha! Ok enough with analogies... .   

[JJacks0]

Thanks for the replies. I agree, I'm nowhere near ready for a new relationship.

Knowing this makes it that much harder to understand how pwBPD are able to move on so quickly. We were in the same relationship - how come one of us is able to react to its end so differently?

I can't even imagine how long it will take me to heal from this. I still love my ex despite everything that's happened, the period of NC, and now the very very LC which is starting to feel like NC again. I feel exactly the same. I'm worried that won't ever change.

[valet]

That's the thing. It sounds counterintuitive to say, but people will never be in the same 'relationship' with each other. It is more about balancing the ideals, which our pwBPD rejected while we thought they agreed.

Essentially a compatibility issue that we overlooked because it looked good on paper. We were predisposed to this, but we can change how we act from now on.

[Grey Kitty]

I can't even imagine how long it will take me to heal from this. I still love my ex despite everything that's happened... .

For me, I found some level of peace when I realized that there are people I love, and always will. And that they are people I can't live with, or can't be in a romantic relationship with. Accepting these two things at the same time is tough, but it worked for me.

I doubt I could convince myself that I don't love my (stbex)wife. But I know that getting back together isn't a good idea. And even after two years separation, I'm feeling a little wistful about it, and not completely comfortable about going forward with the legal divorce stuff now. Even after serious betrayals. Even after her telling me that she "doesn't want to be in a romantic or sexual relationship with me".

I think we both want to be friends again, but I'm not quite ready, and I'm not sure how ready she is. We have been civil, and worked together on more superficial things successfully in our separation. Note: She recovered from the BPD significantly, and the verbal abuse totally ended a couple years before our marriage ended... .so my chances of a deeper friendship are probably far better than yours, JJacks0.

Keep going, keep working through it. I don't know how long it will take either, and I know it isn't easy, but you will get there. And so will I.