I Miss Her So Much

[JJacks0]

But the important thing is you are being good to yourself. Even though you want to make the right moves in this situation, please be careful not to take on too much responsibility. Perhaps analyzing the situation from a BPD perspective could help you play your cards right, but please remember to honor your needs, your want to love and be loved, and be true to yourself.

Thank you vanx, I needed this. Sometimes I do get too caught up in analyzing things from her perspective, overthinking my next move/strategy, and I have to remember to think about myself also. Obsessing about her while disregarding myself certainly won't pave the path for anything healthy anyways.

Detaching from the person does not mean that you stop loving him/her. It also does not mean that you cannot feel love or intimacy. In any healthy relationship, whether with a pwBPD or not, there are two, distinct and separate individuals. Think of two circles touching, but not overlapping. Each exists apart from the other.

You know what, this has finally clicked for me. I read an article the other day with a list of differences between healthy love and toxic love.

Number 10 was this:
[Healthy] Love—Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.)
Toxic love—Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings).

I know you've said it before along with others here, and it may be fairly obvious to most... .but in my relationship I genuinely believed that the "fusion" was healthy love and that detachment was not. I guess I wouldn't have worded it as being "obsessed" with each other's problems, but I did feel like her problems were mine to solve, and I never would have considered "letting go" of them to be an option, as she would have seen that as not caring.

So here's a new question I have... .

If a loving detachment is what's healthy in a relationship, shouldn't we all be trying to detach?
I guess that's why I've always gotten a bit hung up on the meaning of that word. The detaching board here seems to imply that we are done. If someone on the saving board feels like it's time to call the r/s quits, they move to the detaching board. Maybe I'm overthinking this now (likely), but if I've got this straight then we should all be striving for that loving detachment, yes?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

If a loving detachment is what's healthy in a relationship, shouldn't we all be trying to detach?

great question. in many senses of the word, yes. but not in the same spirit or with the same finality as the Detaching board.

heres some examples where "saving" and "detaching" line up in a productive way: not being clingy. giving space. getting emotionally grounded. getting realistic. detaching from the outcome as  meili said. learning boundaries. to varying extents, a certain level of grieving the prior iteration of their relationship and treating this version as a new relationship. being in the relationship in a less enmeshed/dysfunctional way. doing what we can to break the toxic cycle. there are no guarantees, but all of these things, from our end, are generally conducive to a better outcome.

maybe it helps to see it less as "detaching" but getting what tends to be a dysfunctional attachment more secure.

[Meili]

I like to think that on the "saving" and "improving" boards we are actually talking about a loving, non-attachment vs. the total detachment of the "detaching" board.

[Grey Kitty]

If a loving detachment is what's healthy in a relationship, shouldn't we all be trying to detach?
I guess that's why I've always gotten a bit hung up on the meaning of that word. The detaching board here seems to imply that we are done.

I would call the opposite of fusion/enmeshment differentiation or perhaps individuation. The recognition and understanding  that you and your partner are different people with different identities, different feelings, different desires.

I love stbexw. I also was enmeshed with stbexw in ways that were unhealthy. (And she with me as well... .but any focus I put on her side would have ME being clearly enmeshed/unhealthy    )

If you are in a relationship, being enmeshed drives you to reactive and codependent behavior which makes a mess out of things. The saving and improving boards give you better tools and better ways to respond... .and can help you work on the enmeshment. When I was in the relationship, I was committed to making it work better, and trying not to be enmeshed, so I didn't let myself get harmed by stbexw. I still loved her, and I was still trying to stay connected, and treat her lovingly.

If your relationship is over, the same enmeshment keeps you focused on the person or getting back the relationship. The detaching board is focused on keeping you from chasing after this person (again!), etc... .and once again, can help you work on the enmeshment. After we separated, and even today, I still love stbexw, and I'm not trying to change that. I'm keeping myself emotionally at arms length from her, and low-ish contact. I'm lonely, and there is a hole in my life where she used to be. I know that it won't be good for either of us to try to stuff her back in there. That doesn't stop the occasional wistful longing to do so. (And with some more healing, and finishing our divorce, I hope to someday return to a closer/deeper friendship with her... .)

The deeper, harder, more personal job is the same. If you do it while you are in the relationship... .and the relationship ends, you will have less of it to do in the aftermath, and be more at peace with the ending of it.

Does this help you understand what you can do, without getting hung up on semantics over the word detachment?

[JJacks0]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I guess it really does come down to semantics.

I've been having a rough morning. Still haven't had any contact in a little over a month and I'm really missing her. I reread the article, "Surviving a Break-up when your partner has borderline personality".

Point #8 in the article mentions how with BPD, absence generally makes the heart grow colder.

I've been trying to give her space since it seemed like she basically blew me off the last few times I made an effort. It seemed better to let her come to me on her own. But now I'm questioning that decision.

After having such a great time the last time we hung out, and even having a good, long phone conversation a few weeks after, I feel like there are only a few possibilities for her disappearance.

Either a) she's invested in someone new, b) she realized she felt uncomfortable being close to me again, c) she wasn't experiencing this the same way I was. She was laughing, smiling, talking and seemed really happy but I suppose I've been fooled before. Maybe she did have fun but still is in no hurry to do it again. I just don't know why she would have told me she was coming to visit me then.

But I guess my point is that I've been holding back since I don't know her reasoning and if it is reason a or b for example, I don't want to be contacting her when she doesn't want it. I was trying to let her guide this, but now I'm worried that as the article points out, absence isn't helping my cause at all. It would of course be more satisfying for me, personally, if she came to me. But I'm now considering whether or not I should message her and just see how she's doing/start a little conversation. It feels strange having not talked to her over Thanksgiving at all and now Christmas is approaching - immediately after that is New Years and her birthday. So I guess if nothing else I will message her in early January. I had just really hoped that it would be going better than this.

[Meili]

JJacks, I understand the thought process behind your post. It strikes me, though, that you are putting a great deal of thought into what she may or may not be thinking.

Let's face it, the reality is that each person and relationship is different. For some, absence may make the heart grow fonder while for others, it's out of sight, out of mind. It should be as simple as taking a look at what you know about her, which do you think is true? How has it played out with hers in her life?

Trying to predict the outcome is still walking on eggshells however. It's still trying to control and manipulate the situation. Have you looked at why you are so uncomfortable with releasing control of the outcome?

[JJacks0]

From what I've seen, it's out of sight, out of mind.

[Grey Kitty]

From what I've seen, it's out of sight, out of mind.

That only works as long as a person stays out of sight. When somebody comes back into sight, what has happened with her before?

[JJacks0]

I meant to say more before, but I was in a rush to class.

Meili - I know what you mean, I'm still too concerned with the outcome. I guess I didn't think of it as trying to manipulate the situation, I just wanted to make the best choice with what I know. I'm uncomfortable because I'm still really hoping for a certain outcome. So I'm really trying to do anything I can to increase my odds. In reality I know it's out of my control, but if nothing else I don't want to make things worse.

Grey Kitty - That's hard for me to answer because she didn't really keep friends. That never really happened. I never really heard her talk about missing anyone or anything like that. I imagine that yes, it would only apply if they stay out of sight. Which is basically what I'm doing.

[JJacks0]

I guess the best frame of reference I have would be one of her friends who she has known for as long as I've known her. My ex always considered her a good friend but never made much of an effort to stay in touch. Out of sight was out of mind. She never said she missed her much or anything like that. Once in a while she'd say she wished she saw her friends more, or something like that. Once in a while she'd invite her somewhere. And when the girl was back in sight, they always had fun but it's not like all of a sudden she and my ex were actually hanging out regularly. It was always months apart for the most part. The girl even got married without my ex knowing. 

So I guess that's why it seems like for my ex, that out of sight is out of mind. I guess I thought I'd be a lot harder to get "out of mind". I mean every other thing I see reminds me of her. But I know we're different.

In the case of her friend, well the friend never made an effort to stay involved either. So I guess if I made an effort to stay in her life, to keep popping up, I'd stay in her mind more. But then again, that's a little ridiculous when so one-sided. When we first split she told me that she still thought about me every day because she cared about me and wanted me to be okay. I don't hear that anymore, nor do I hear from her.

[Grey Kitty]

I guess her track record doesn't point to doing a good job of being friends with an ex.

This may be a bit harsh, but that seems for the best--you don't sound able to be friends with her either. (Well not today, anyhow) You sound more like a friend-who-wishes-she-was-more-than-a-friend-again.

  I know there's nothing easy about this.

[Meili]

For me, I had to decide how much "chasing" I was willing to do before I accepted that it was not working and I just looked pathetic. When I stopped chasing and focused on myself, I was able to see that my BPDexgf took notice. But, she is not your ex and may handle things differently. My point is, it needs to not matter to you what she does or does not do. The focus needs to be on you and what you want for yourself.

If, for yourself, you want to chase, then you do so until you don't want to do so anymore. (I don't recommend chasing btw) If you don't want to chase, then you shouldn't.

As long as you are making it about what she may or may not want (aka guessing what's in another person's mind) or about the relationship that may or may reignite, you are not making it about you. You are important in this equation. Your needs and happiness matter.

So, what do you need?

[JJacks0]

Yeah, you're both right. I think I really need to start following the advice of others on here to start feeling better. Lately I'm just trying to get by. I'm so angry, so sad, so full of regret... .just not in a good place. I'm sure it's only made worse by the cold weather here and the holidays. The regret is the hardest part. I think I could let go and move on more easily if she had just left me and I felt like I didn't do anything wrong. I feel like I really hurt her and messed up so many times in so many ways. She didn't just up and leave me, I left her first essentially and the regret I feel is just overwhelming. I need to find a way to work past that aside from just hoping she'll come back so that I can "make it up to her".

I need to do something to start feeling better myself, otherwise I know I'm just headed down a bad road.

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, you're both right. I think I really need to start following the advice of others on here to start feeling better.

We can advise you on how to take better care of yourself. How not to do something that you want but know better. I know it isn't easy, though.

  You may not feel better. Let yourself feel how you do--sad, angry, confused, lonely, whatever. Maybe joyful will show up someday, but not just by willing it to.

Try not to feel like you have to act to make your feelings go away. They will leave on their own schedule.

[Year2]

From looking through these posts I get the feeling that some people don't really know what they're dealing with.  I don't mean this unkindly, but I went through 15 years of marriage with a BPD and I believe I just left a 5 year relationship with another.  The latter was 5 weeks ago and my emotions cycle round all day from grief, anger, reconciliation and how to fix.

But I'm aware that this is all nonsense.  And I would imagine that we all fit into the category of co-dependant partner.

The reality is that they have repeated this pattern endlessly.  My recent ex dumped her boyfriend for me 5 years ago.  She used to laugh about him coming to her door crying.  Of course I was the focus of her very considerable energy and attractiveness and I dismissed him as a bit of a loser.

And yet here I am.  Through breaking up with my ex wife I know the drill and the pitfalls.  I told my ex through email to stop texting me angry texts and I told myself 'NO!  Do not be that guy again trying to fix her and come up with a plan'.  She claims she dumped me for an old flame, claims that it's never been this hard before, claims she spends all day crying.  But, when pushed she won't give up what she's doing and wants to see how it goes 'for myself right now'.  I bumped into her at a bar a week ago and found myself in her car talking about how to put Humpty together again for 4 hours.  We kissed, we cried.  I could not help the torrent of superlatives towards her.  This is the girl who messed me about for 2 weeks then told me I had been cheated on.

This is not love.  This is not caring.  Torturing someone in the way she fears the very most (she constantly accuses me of imaginary affairs) is manipulative and calculating.  The greatest shocks are what a great liar she is (I thought she was straight as a die) and how I have been sucked into the same process of being isolated and abused for things I've never done.

I don't know all of your situations but you must know they're BPD or suspect it.  I understand the allure.  The highs are very high, but I can only surmise that we fill a vast hole in these people's lives and then we become frightening for the power we consequently have over them and are pushed away.  It's a weird, symbiotic relationship.

They never come back.  They never return to the dreamgirl/boy.  Sorry to say it but it's true.  Who really wants an endless game?  I tell myself this every day.  And my love for this mirage just won't go away.

[Meili]

The regret is the hardest part. I think I could let go and move on more easily if she had just left me and I felt like I didn't do anything wrong. I feel like I really hurt her and messed up so many times in so many ways.

But, you know that she was hurt long before she met you right?

Also, it might help for you to remind yourself that you did the best that you could with the tools that you had at the time. It's hard when we start to learn what was really going on as we do a postmortem on the relationship because we also apply the new knowledge that we've gained to the situation. We tend to ignore the fact that in the moment, we didn't know any better or have the tools necessary to do anything any differently.

[vanx]

"The regret is the hardest part. I think I could let go and move on more easily if she had just left me and I felt like I didn't do anything wrong. I feel like I really hurt her and messed up so many times in so many ways."
Ha sorry I don't know how to actually do the quote feature, but wow, this really resonates with me too. Many of us who come looking to understand what happened, like Meili said, have hindsight. And we do want to earn more how to be compassionate to those we love, and to be compassionate to ourselves, because living up to ideals every moment is a lot of strain. We all slip up, in our romances and in other parts of our lives. We feel such empathy for our partners, but also we have needs. It is really tough. I am personally struggling with self blame and not feeling strong or kind enough more than anything. What's funny and also helpful for me is that even though forgiving myself feels impossible, seeing how fully and readily you deserve to forgive yourself is so easy! Please don't beat yourself up too much.
I know with the woman I am missing, it pains me to remember the moments I was less than compassionate or calm with her. I keep thinking "if only I could have been more patient", and yes, that would have been great! These virtues are so important to so many of us looking for healing here. But at some point, I have to be able to be okay with reacting or getting upset, because I'm just a person too, and the many, many times you do show patience and compassion outside of some slip ups do count. Were there any times the woman you love lost her composure with you? Were there times you saw that she was feeling bad inside and you loved and comforted her? Why don't you deserve the same?
Believe me, I am sounding preachy, but I have been going over again and again how I blew it by not being my ideal of composure in some cases, but just saying it seems a lot of us who feel tenderness towards lovely people who are struggling with their trauma, we have a heck of a time showing that same compassion to ourselves. You deserve to feel good. You are a human like all of us and are allowed to mess up and still be worthy of love. You are doing your best to learn and love, and I think you're doing great seeking support and healing!
Thanks for sharing on here. I know it doesn't take away the pain, but your story has really helped me.

[Grey Kitty]

It pains me to remember the moments I was less than compassionate or calm with her. I keep thinking "if only I could have been more patient", and yes, that would have been great! These virtues are so important to so many of us looking for healing here. But at some point, I have to be able to be okay with reacting or getting upset, because I'm just a person too, and the many, many times you do show patience and compassion outside of some slip ups do count.

I've got a different take on this kind of regret.

Everybody has a limit of how patient, how compassionate they can be. And everybody's limit is at least a little less when they are being attacked or provoked or criticized.

And this kind of relationship is pretty much guaranteed to exceed your capacity. That kind of "failure" is going to happen.

For me the lesson was to pull the eject button BEFORE that happened, and remove myself before I said something I would regret. I didn't always do that... .but I did feel like that was possible for somebody who is human. And I did get good at being mindful of my own mental state so I could remove myself before I started lashing out (much).

While I hope never to be in a messed up relationship that provokes me that badly again, I also hope I keep that skill at hand.

[vanx]

I should have worded that "having reacted or gotten upset", because maybe it sounds like that's good to just be cool with. Oops!