Insults, threats, deliberately misunderstanding you?

[Jessica84]

Is this a breakup text? Can't tell. He's been weird all week.

"It has been a hard week. I miss you but am sick of us arguing. It's probably not a fair assessment but that's how I feel. My depression probably doesn't help. Sorry."

Maybe I'm tripping and he sent it because it's Friday and we normally get together on weekends - so he's letting me know not to come over. Or maybe it's for good?

The last 2 weekends were fine - except Sundays. I had to leave early both times (normally stay until Monday mornings). This is why I don't like to use that boundary. I can't stay when he keeps trying to pick a fight, but I know it takes weeks for him to get over it. Weirds him out. Every time. Silence, gloominess, awkwardness... .Then he starts thinking we argue "all the time", even though it's pretty rare. I get how his messed up brain works. I just don't like him rearranging the facts to fit his moods.

He's been distant all week - came over once to use my bathroom, wouldn't look at me or say much, gave me a quick peck on the cheek, then peeled out of my driveway like a madman! I don't know what's wrong with him. Or what to say to him right now... .or if I should say anything... .or let him work it out in his head.

I don't think we'll actually break up, but I do think he is contemplating it at THIS moment. Been there, done that. I don't want to give him a reason - anything I say at this point CAN and WILL be used against me. I responded with only "ok, sorry". I'm trying not to be mad at him. What an unnecessary waste of time and energy this is. Feels like this is what he does to try to get me back in control or something.

Meanwhile, here I sit, wondering if this is it and if I should expect the "we need to talk" call. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[coworkerfriend]

Jessica - I totally understand what you are feeling at the moment - I know that anything I say can and will be used against me.   It is easy to read too much into texts like that - I do the same thing.  It is such an unnecessary waste of time and energy.  It is Friday night - we should be home relaxing instead of me wondering how long this episode is going to last. 

I also have had to deal with abrupt mood swings on Sundays - it has been months since we had a nice weekend.    I really wish I had words of advice or wisdom.  I just know how you feel.

[Jessica84]

Thanks coworkerfriend.   Helps to know I'm not alone... .or crazy. Sorry you are going thru the same.

I'd say I was reading too much into it too, except I've seen this before. His attitude toward me all week, and then this text. He called awhile ago but he was muttering under his breath. I told him I don't know what he's saying so he said he had to go and hung up. Then I had dinner with a mutual friend. She said he's been yelling and angry all week, and everyone at his office is avoiding him. He told someone I was about to break up with him. I swear, he just makes things up in his head?  If he's saying that, he's very likely thinking of pulling the plug first. Abandon me before I abandon him. Ridiculous. I feel sorry he does this to himself. And to me. I'm just going to lay low and go enjoy my weekend. Hope you can do the same! 

[Grey Kitty]

I'd call it an "I'm unfit company for human consumption, please steer clear" text instead of a breakup text.

The best thing you can do is plan a weekend you will enjoy, most likely well away from him!

'Tho if you chase after him in this mood, you might get a breakup text next... .

[Jessica84]

Good advice GK, as always.    I'll leave him alone.

Thing is, I've actually gotten texts like that before - very straight up: "I'm not going to be good company tonight. Can we do something another night?" I'm ok with that. We all have those days. I appreciate him not subjecting me to his misery! But this text shifts the blame. I'm sick of the "we" or "us" arguing crap. There's no "we". I'm not provoking or engaging in any arguments. If it makes him feel better to blame me, ok, as long as he doesn't later expect me to apologize for something I haven't done. When he comes back from whatever planet he's on, I'll just try to move forward.

[Jessica84]

Well, now he's flirting with women all over facebook. Most haven't replied or they did the "aww thanks" thing to his unsolicited compliments. One is loving the attention. Last comment to her was his cell phone# - so now I guess they're texting? Guess he doesn't realize these women are mutual "friends" so lucky me, I got to see it all as I was scrolling. He's not too tech savvy.
 
I don't think this particular woman is the reason for his distance. She's just the one who jumped on it. She's a distraction. This is what he does when he thinks I'm about to leave him: desperately runs looking for a backup, just in case. But it hurts all the same.

What do I do? I can't reach out to him to assure him I didn't want to break up in the first place. I can't call him out if he's looking for a reason to justify a break up. I can't call her out because I barely know her, and she's likely to tell him if I contact her. This isn't about her anyway. Or any other woman. It's his crazy mood swings and mixed up thoughts! I can only hope he doesn't try to meet up with anyone over the weekend. There's no coming back from that.

Ugh. I hate this.

[Notwendy]

Jessica- I think this is something that is scary when we want to hang on to a relationship- and we are all here to improve ours. Dysfunction in a couple "fits" in a way- we have patterns that repeat themselves and they are in some way a comfortable fit to both our issues or it wouldn't be a situation we were both in. But if this was a happy situation for us- we wouldn't be here wanting to change it in some way.

I think the one who wants the change is the one who is motivated to do the personal work to do that. Change in a relationship can start with us- but it is also a risk. The familiar patterns between people change when one person changes- and that isn't always comfortable for the other person who sought out dysfunction as a way to cope with their own issues. When one person changes- the other person can become uncomfortable- and then he/she is faced with choices and changes themselves.

One of the things that keeps us in these patterns is fear. We don't want to risk losing the relationship or the other person. But we also come here because the dysfunction is not a happy situation for us. We want to change the situation. We want them to change. Well, we can want it, but we don't have control over another person, just ourselves. This is the risk- if we change and the dynamics become different- uncomfortable for the pwBPD- such as we walk away and leave them to deal with their own emotions, (instead of managing them by appeasing, participating in the drama, and anger that serves as an outlet) then they may struggle. At this point, we don't control what behavior they choose to manage their feelings. If they have been relying on us for a long time, then they may escalate the behaviors towards us, or find some other way. Some may even agree to seek help- who knows. But that is a scary thing for us if we tend to be caretakers and fixers.

Can a relationship survive this change? I think this is where the unpredictability comes in- we don't know for sure. But some have and some have not. I think what brings nons to the point of wanting to change is that the personal toll of the dysfunction is high enough that we don't want to do it anymore. We want the relationship, but are tired of participating in the dysfunction. But the partner has choices too- to adapt to the new situation or to continue the dysfunction with someone else.

This is what changed for you- you decided not to be the target of your boyfriend's bad feelings. But this was working for him in some way. So long as he had you to blame or be angry at- he had a way to manage the feelings. You did what was best for you- decide not to be the target, but the feelings he has are still there. To manage them- he is going to use the tools he has. He hasn't learned new ones yet- but so long as he had you as a manager- there was no need to learn anything different. So, he is feeling bad and using the management tools he has now.

He may feel insecure- so getting attention from women on FB is a way to bolster his hurt ego. I know this is hard to resist stepping in to soothe or fix the situation. However, he has choices too. He knows that taking this too far risks the relationship. You can't control his choices. All you can do is make your decision what to do if he "takes it too far".

I think a way to cope with this is self care- go do something really nice for you. If you are used to spending your weekends with him- then think- a whole weekend- take a walk in a park, browse a bookstore, decorate your house for the holidays. Buy yourself some cheerful flowers. Call a friend to do something. See that movie you want to see. Also think about your boundaries. What is "too far" for you? Be clear about that. Sometimes if a person is testing the boundaries- they can go right up to the line.

It reminds me of when the kids were little and we went to the public pool. The lifeguard would tell all the kids to stay out of the water for pool breaks. Well they stood there with their little toes right at the edge- hanging over slightly. A few oppositional ones would quickly stick a foot in and out in front of the lifeguard and say but I'm not " all in" the water- just my foot!" Occasionally a defiant child would get in the water, or fall in when pushing the boundary- and that is where the lifeguard would invoke the consequences and make that child stay out of the pool for a bit. Kids with repeated or serious misbehaviors would not be allowed to use the pool at all. The kids all knew what boundary not to cross, even if they went right up to the line. I sometimes think people who test boundaries act in a similar way.

I think it is important for you to know what the boundary is between testing it ( maybe flirting on FB) and going too far ( meeting the person, being physical with them- know that is the line for you).

This is tough, but I think if he values the relationship, he will hopefully not cross that line.

[taty1124]

Can someone explain to me the "abandonment fear" a bit more clearly. Is it a true fear of leaving or does it have to do with the BPD persons ability to maintain meaningful relationships? When we argue she is always doing one of two things:     Throwing me out, as in asking me to move out OR she will say things like "if I'm such a bad person then why don't you leave me?" However, my therapist related her inability to maintain a stable relationship with a therapist ( 4 therapists in 4 years) is a way to show her "fear of abandonment"

I'm just a bit confused

[Grey Kitty]

Flirting with a bunch of women on facebook where they can all see each other sounds like acting out.

You already knew he was stressed, so doing things like that to cope kinda fits.

Jessica, do you know what your limits are? There is quite a range of online flirting, in person flirting, meeting in person, casual sex, an affair/relationship... .

Do you want to remind him of what your limits might be, or ask him "WTF is all this flirting?" Well, I'm half-kidding. That's sure not using the best communication tools... .if you do want to address it directly.

[Notwendy]

Hi taty,

One would imagine a fear of abandonment being shown as overly people pleasing ( a characteristic of co-dependency- actually both the pwBPD and the non partner can have co-dependent traits).

But it shows itself in different ways. The pushing away is sort of a "leave you before you leave me" way of controlling the fear. When you argue, she may decide to toss you out, leave you, out of fear you are doing that to her.

[Notwendy]

I think GK is right about the acting out- and on FB in front of you. He wants you to see it.

I would think that someone in a relationship who is cheating would be sneaky about it- not want you to know.

As to reminding him of the boundary- I think that is a good idea but only if you are willing to enforce it. Saying you want an exclusive relationship and then, taking him back if he cheats isn't holding that boundary.

What he has done with the fuzzy "maybe I might have broken up with you but not clear " text is it leaves you in the dark. If you were to date someone else now, he'd say "you are cheating". If he meets one of those women " I thought we were broken up, I'm not cheating".

If you confront him, it is about you, not him.

Hi- I am confused about the text. Are we still a couple? If so, I would want that to be exclusive. I noticed you gave X your number on Facebook. Please clarify our status to me so I am not confused. Did you break up with me?

Love, Jessica.

[Jessica84]

Thank you, thank you! I needed to chill - got a good night's sleep then went shopping and had lunch with a friend. As soon as I got home he called like nothing happened. I'm glad I got out and stopped obsessing/worrying about all the what-if's. I don't like living 'there'. It's not healthy. I'd like to disable this panic button in me. Disabled my FB app from my phone too. Too easy to get on scroll mindlessly. Social media is a dangerous place for relationships, BPD or no.

My boundaries are clear - physical contact is what I consider cheating. I'll address when/if that actually happens. I am guilty of flirting myself. I don't do it deliberately, but it's in me. The only difference is I am more aware in type. And on a public forum like Facebook. In person it's harder to catch ourselves. There's no backspace button in real life  

I don't know if it was meant for my eyes or not. I wasn't giving him attention all week and he panics without it. I think that's what this was - attention-seeking (hers positively, mine negatively). Maybe ignoring it would lessen it. Can't control her, but I can control whether I give him the negative attention he was hoping for. Besides, asking him not to do something is like asking a child not to touch a hot stove...

[Jessica84]

Do you want to remind him of what your limits might be, or ask him "WTF is all this flirting?" Well, I'm half-kidding. That's sure not using the best communication tools... .if you do want to address it directly.

GK - Even if I converted this to BPD-speak, he would just say, "Yeah I'm a flirt." Like... so what?

I know he is, and it's mostly harmless. A few weeks ago it probably wouldn't bother me, but when he's pushing me away like yesterday, my imagination starts to runs wild. I'm a little guilty of 'harmless flirting'. I try to be aware of it - I never want to make him feel insecure (or another woman who thinks I'm being too friendly with her SO). I know how that feels. Funny thing is, he has accused me of flirting on FB before - I could see it from his view after he pointed it out, but he didn't understand these were inside jokes - and with my COUSIN!  

[Notwendy]

It's good that you reached out here for support while your thoughts were going crazy. I think many of us know that feeling. Recognizing that it's our fears talking helps us to keep perspective and not be reactive. Having time to ourselves can be a good thing- you might want to schedule a "Jessica " weekend once in a while rather than make it a reaction to your boyfriends behavior. He did manage on his own- hopefully the FB flirting was all it took. But also - some "me" time can let you get centered too.

As to flirting- sometimes it's harmless- sometimes hurtful. But if the boundary between FB flirting and what is unacceptable to you is clear to him- then he will be aware of that when he does choose to flirt.

Over the years- flirting has lost its appeal.  I'm married for one, but it also makes me uncomfortable to be the object of it. I don't think I'd like it if my H did it. But I know I can't control what he does. Fidelity though is a strong boundary- I think we are both clear on that.

[Grey Kitty]

My boundaries are clear - physical contact is what I consider cheating. I'll address when/if that actually happens. I am guilty of flirting myself. I don't do it deliberately, but it's in me.

  Knowing where your boundaries are... .and just taking a chill pill when he's not to them yet is excellent! Glad we could help talk you off that ledge 

And I'm really glad that he managed to get over whatever was bugging him and come back down to earth with you, Jessica!

GK - Even if I converted this to BPD-speak, he would just say, "Yeah I'm a flirt." Like... so what?

That would be a good answer if it was just "normal" flirting on his part.

OTOH, what you described was him suddenly flirting with anybody he could reach on facebook. Both a change from previous behavior and pretty excessive. (And I'd note, not too helpful in taking things farther with any of these women, as I expect they could all see the sudden scattershot flirting as well, and have the same WTF? question)

But like you said, he'd deny it, rather than acknowledging anything.

Anyways, there is room for differences of opinion about flirting. Personally... .my stbexwife is a world-class flirt. I'm shy enough that I seldom manage, but I've got a few friends that I occasionally flirt with, and we both know it is harmless fun. The question of how harmless flirting really is depends on the intent and what happens next.

Harmless is just doing it for the fun of the game, enjoying the game with somebody else. The only danger here is that your flirting target might be interested in more than the game, making you a tease instead of a flirt.

Flirting with somebody else to make your girlfriend notice, get jealous, and react isn't so harmless. I doubt your bf was very aware this was what he did... .but he did... .and it worked, you noticed. Fortunately, you didn't take the bait and blow up at him, and all is good now.

Flirting with the goal of getting somebody in bed is a whole 'nuther game. (Safe if both parties are available... .not your situation!)

[Grey Kitty]

Oops, I missed the best part here:

I don't like living 'there'. It's not healthy. I'd like to disable this panic button in me.

Your panic button is the fear that he will cheat on you, right?

I don't know your history or his well enough to advise you on how to deal with this. How does the saying go? Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that everybody ISN'T out to get you!

Have you been cheated on in the past? (By him, or prior partners?) Or did cheating tear apart your parents, or something similar?
Has he cheated in the past? (Either on you, or on prior partners?)

Your own irrational fear of being cheated on is something you can and should work on. Disconnecting your own buttons like that is hard but important work.

If your bf really is likely to cheat on you, being fearful, jealous, or suspicious wouldn't be irrational at all, and trying to stuff and deny those feelings will only get you into more trouble.

[Jessica84]

Thank you NotWendy and Grey Kitty. It is helpful to process this out with people who understand.

I know with BPD flirting is more likely to turn harmful. This is my fear. He has flirted in the past catching a few psychos in his snare. Then regretted it. Sometimes he broke up with me when he thought he found greener grass elsewhere. This was 3 years ago before I knew about BPD when we argued intensely and often. But still, I have those fears of a repeat.

As recent as a few weeks ago, he finally apologized for that. He is going out of town next month and plans to visit an ex and her husband while there. I was surprised by how graceful he was in telling me. He said he knows he's given me good reason to worry and be jealous in the past and assured me he's not interested in anything but catching up with an old friend, probably just dinner with her AND her husband. I understood, thanked him for caring about my feelings, and agreed that he's given me no reason to be concerned in a long time. I added that sometimes it is hard to not go back to that time when anytime another woman came along or batted his eyes at him, our r/s went south. He said "fair enough, and I'm sorry I hurt you. I don't want us to go there again either."

My fears aren't completely irrational. He hasn't cheated, per se. What he has done in the past is cause trouble in our r/s enough to escalate a breakup in order to pursue someone else. Each time it was a disaster. 2 became stalkers and he was close to filing a police report on one, and the others weren't interested in him - he just misread the flirtation. Like I said, since learning about BPD, there's been nothing like this or a breakup since.

And yes, I've been cheated on in the past by others, but I made peace with that a long time ago. I was married to a decent guy for 12 years. There was no cheating or animosity, we just went our separate ways - he dates men now. So my button is about my current boyfriend. I can forgive, but I can't entirely forget the past.

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah, your fears are valid here. Even if he forces a breakup before getting into a trainwreck relationship with a nutjob instead of cheating, you have something very real to fear.

That he now sees what he did and even apologized for it is encouraging. Especially how he is talking about visiting his ex.

You are doing a good job of facing your fears.

People tend to live up to our expectations somehow. I think it is more a result of subtle non-verbal communications than some sort of magic. But sometimes trusting somebody is just what they need to act in a trustworthy way, if that makes sense.

You decided you could trust him enough with this attack of facebook flirting. You didn't give him a "reason" to break up with you and do something with the woman who now has his number... .if she had called. (And given the context, I'd guess that an emotionally healthy woman wouldn't have called, or wouldn't have taken the flirting farther... .so that leaves the possibility of another nutjob pursuing him  )

As you said... .I'm sure you can imagine how you would have blown this thing sky-high with him three years ago, before you knew about BPD!

[Jessica84]

I'd say she's just lonely, or possibly a psycho. Pretty girl, but alone on a Friday night, curled up with her cats and flirting with someone else's boyfriend. She knows we are dating. We all work in the same field. She has seen us together and even "liked" a picture of us a month ago where his post was obvious we were a couple. It's a nice picture, and even in his comments to others he said he's "a lucky guy". But who knows the story he's now telling her in private. Maybe that we "argue all the time". This would open the door... .

But he invited me over last night. He was definitely 'off'. I acted as if nothing was different, and after a few hours, he was himself again. This morning he woke up overwhelmed with stress, thinking about the work week and all the things he had to do. I told him I had some things to do today too, gave him a big hug, then got ready to leave... .before anything could go wrong! I took my time to watch for any cues, but he seemed ok. Still a little distant, but somewhat normal. I'm hoping by next weekend, things will be back to normal.

[Notwendy]

Jessica - I think you have a good handle on your fears and not letting them create drama in the relationship.

From your boyfriend's behavior, it seems to me he does know the boundary, but like the kid at the pool- he is the one who is going to stick his toes over the edge of the pool and when the lifeguard stares at him, say " see I didn't go IN the pool".  He triggered your fear, maybe expecting you to engage in drama with him. But you didn't and the episode blew over. I might even imagine that the flirting on FB might diminish in time as you don't react to it- if part of the reason is to stir up drama so he can let anger out at you. If not, then I think so long as his toes are over the edge, but he doesn't go in the pool, he knows the boundary.

As to the concern he may end up with someone crazy- that would be his issue. I don't think we can protect someone else- a grown adult- from that choice. I used to fear my H would find someone else. But as I read more about relationships- how we attract someone who matches us and our tendencies to recreate issues in relationships, I understood that we both have choices. If it was my choice to grow, emotionally and be less dysfunctional, he had the choice to stay with me or not. That is scary. But he chose to stay with me. I also have several friends my age whose H's did cheat on them, and I saw how they coped. In many cases the cheating was about the person who cheated, not the partner. I realized that these choices were not something I had control over, so I let go of the feeling that I could control it. All I could do is control my side of things.

You are interacting with your BF in a different way- less drama, less reactivity. And he is still choosing you.

[Jessica84]

Thank you. I appreciate your support and for the great analogy. I wish he would keep his toes a little further from the edge of the pool and go sit somewhere safer. I know I can't control that, just wishful thinking. As long as there's this old familiar, uncomfortable tension between us, and as long as lonely girl sticks around, the harder it will be to control my panic button. I'm working on it. Trying not to worry about the outcome. But he doesn't come close to emotionally stable right now. So I'm a bit on edge. I'm going to do some house chores and see if that helps. This is triggering my OCD, but at least I will be productive. 

[Turkish]

 

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