Adult daughter, estranged for now.

[Brit-mum]

It's really shocking to me that I have only just found this forum. My daughter is 25 and was diagnosed with BPD exactly ten years ago - in the UK. Neither the NHS (doctors or the various nurses and other health professionals we've engaged with over the years), nor CAMHS (Childhood and Adolescent Mental Health Services - where she received limited treatment) ever mentioned this forum or referred us to any source of support. Over the years, I've turned to MIND, watched videos on YouTube etc., but I have never encountered anyone with the same behaviour or symptoms as my daughter - until now. Absolutely nothing matches this forum in terms of finding others going through the same thing. I honestly cannot say how incredible it is to discover this. Ten years!!

Like so many other parents whose heart-breaking stories I've been reading today, I've been entirely consumed by my daughter's BPD for the last twelve years. It's affected her younger sister to a huge extent, prevented me from really living for myself (kept me well and truly single!), dictated where we've lived, how I've worked - the list goes on and on...

I have given up trying to 'explain' my daughter's behaviour to friends or family. No one understands - I usually get that look people give you when they just think I need to be a better, stricter mother. You probably know the one. Anyway, consequently, it's been a lonely place to occupy - I'm always unwilling to offload too much on my other daughter because she copes with her older sister by not talking about her! So, what a relief to find this place.

For my daughter, BPD is a cycle of constant stress and trauma that she just can't get a break from. Watching her destroy her own life and the lives of those around her breaks my heart and is deeply distressing. Her sister calls it a whirlwind where she sucks everyone around her into a spiral of darkness, manipulation, lies, hatred, extreme anger... and then spits them all out again so violently that everyone walks away bruised and hugely reluctant to have anything to do with her again.

We've had everything from drug abuse (ongoing, marijuana user), verbal attacks, physical abuse, suicide attempts, violence, self-harm, incredible lies, blame for everything of course, accusations of abuse that never happened, theft, inability to hold down a job (like so many others, she's very bright and capable, but the moment there is any emotional 'challenge' it all goes horribly wrong), inability to maintain any relationship at all (aside from unhealthy ones with those who want to use her [has resulted in her involvement running county lines for dealers, being arrested - several times - being beaten up and hospitalised many times]), inability to engage with any form of support, and complete denial of her diagnosis.

She has never accepted her BPD (the professionals at CAMHS were 'wrong'), instead, she tells people she has autism and ADHD - which she may of course have as well, I genuinely don't know - but I do know she tells people this because here in the UK, being autistic is entirely acceptable. Having BPD is not. It's a way for her to excuse her behaviour - I completely understand why she does it, it just doesn't help her.

Today she is homeless - self-imposed. It's a long story, and no doubt one that none of you will be surprised to hear. There is so much I could share, it's almost difficult to know which bits to talk about.

Aside from absorbing your own stories, what I'm really interested to understand is what the future is for our poor kids / young adults? How can they navigate the world without alienating everyone if they don't accept their condition, cannot hold down a job, accommodation, a relationship, and can't engage with any support service? What does a good future look like for them and how on earth do we get society to be a little more understanding and able to work with them rather than - in my experience - saying there's nothing that can be done unless they engage with the system (never going to happen!).

How does BPD become as accepted as a 'difference' in the same way autism is? I know for my daughter, the words 'personality disorder' are crushing. At least for her, 'autism' has no such association.   

Two final big questions - I see mostly daughters on these threads, does BPD predominantly impact girls, and if so, why?

And finally, in terms of support available - our biggest disappointment, and the one thing that set my daughter off on a terrible path, was being discharged from CAMHS when she was 17 - just a year and a bit after she was diagnosed, and at an age she was hugely vulnerable. She was just starting to get somewhere with someone she was slowly beginning to trust, when she was let go - because this is when funding runs out and you get transferred to adult services.

Unfortunately, the system here involved her having to self-refer back in as an adult to mainstream services, something that was so difficult to do. When I eventually went along with her to a GP appointment in order to self refer, the doctor looked at her and said that unless she 'was suicidal right now, there was nothing they could do'. A clear demonstration of the lack of knowledge in the NHS. My daughter stormed out in tears and things went down hill rapidly after that - she lost her trust in the entire system and has never recovered it or picked up the skills to actively and calmly engage herself again - despite my support.

I would love to see adolescent and adult services join up to prevent this huge cataclysmic gap in support. I'd also have loved it if there was a single, educated source of support for a young person in my daughter's situation. BPD knowledge in the health service - in our experience - is almost non-existent.

Gah. I have just realised how long this message is so I will stop! I would love to hear your views, thanks for reading.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[murmom]

Welcome Britmom

So many things you mentioned about your daughter sound so familiar in my situation with my 27 year old daughter. We've seen drug abuse, arrests, inability to hold a job, toxic romantic relationships and homelessness as well. It's so funny you mention your daughter saying she has autism and ADHD instead of BPD because that's my daughter's latest claim as well. Accepting a diagnosis of BPD is overwhelming for my daughter and I feel like her claim of being "autistic " makes her issues more socially acceptable,  but it also just delays her getting the real help she needs.

You asked what future we see for our troubled children and I honestly don't know anymore. My daughter currently makes a living on OnlyFans and lives with a drug dealer boyfriend,  so it doesn't seem like things are going to get better any time soon. I have gone no contact for my happiness and mental health and have told her that we can revisit our relationship in about a year. I have tried so many years to help and now daughter and boyfriend go after me over this or that and I finally said enough.  I think they have to hit absolute rock bottom before things change. I just thought she was at rock bottom so many times, but I guess she has a ways to go. I worry about her future,  but I have to live in the present and right now things don't look good.

[js friend]

Hi Brit-mum,

Many years ago I came across an article about a NFL player who had been dx with BPD and was trying to save his marriage. He spoke about his anger and and the difficulties with having close relationships with others including his wife, children and team mates and it was only then that I saw that there maybe a correlation between what he was describing  and that my udd may also be experiencing.

Before I read this article I had never even heard of the term "Bpd" even though I had taken my udd to the Gp and spoke about her behaviour and he made a referral to a mental health agency for teens. There I spoke about udds extreme behaviours( the anger, problems with friends, constant running away, she would be up all night, the constant lying, .... etc )to a psychiatrist and the family therapist and udd and I received some limited family counselling. I was offered a place on a parenting teen programme over 6wks which I attended but again the possibility of  Bpd was never mentioned.

My udd was around 14yo at the time and I do remember the psychiatrist at the time saying that they didnt like to dx anyone under the age of 18yo with a mental health issue as their personality wasnt fully developed yet....and I  also remember that Litium was mentioned for udd to trial which I refused as we were not given a formal dx.(Im also pretty sure that udd wouldnt have taken it either)

After that Udd was referred to the mental health team again after an incident of self harm, no mention of Bpd then either so I wonder if it is a combination of things. Maybe mental health services just dont want to put a label on it when a child is under the age of 18 in the hope they will just grow out of it, but I agree with you that health/mental health services should at least be signposting concerned parents, relatives and even pwbpd to websites similiar to this one. Bpd needs to be brought into the light just like autism, bipolar and schizophrenia as there seems to be a lot of stigma around it  yet it generally remains unheard of.  For me discovering this website has been a true lifesaver, and I dont say that flippantly. I honestly feel like we are the lucky ones to just know that this website exists.

My udd is now 32yo and we have been estranged for the past 4yrs. As far as I know she now has a live in partner and has recently had another child. I feel she knows that something is wrong but is just not prepared to face up to it. I think that is the first step towards getting better with our pwbpd. I know my udd continues to struggle but I have had to let her go and get on with my life. Its like having the elephant in the room. The pain is always there but we have to learn to ignore it. think about her and my gc everyday but there isnt much I can do apart from look after me and wait for the day Iam reunited with my Gc,  as udd has told many many times over the years to my face that I have F***ed up her life and that doesnt want me in it.

[Brit-mum]

Thank you so much for the replies - so interesting to hear your stories, you could be talking about my daughter, they are sooo similar. And we are all no contact / estranged - from what I've read on here, that feels an inevitability once they get to adulthood.

@murmom - do you think your daughter could change? I've often thought this myself, that my daughter could end up hitting rock bottom - perhaps she is picked up by some service or other who would understand her BPD and be able to help, then things might get better. But I'm depressingly very unsure that will ever happen.

@jsfriend - interesting that the psychiatrist wouldn't dx under 18. Makes sense, so you have never had a diagnosis? Are you in the US?

Can I ask you both if anyone else in your families has every had BPD - diagnosed or otherwise? It's a pointless exercise I know (the 'how did it happen' question), but my cousin almost certainly had BPD or something very similar. She lived a troubled life until she was 42, but very sadly committed suicide earlier this year. I suppose that's the thing that keeps me looking for 'answers'.

[murmom]

I think sometimes that my daughter might be able to change, or she will gradually get better as she gets older. Thinking back 10+ years ago my daughter was self harming and in and out of inpatient psychiatric hospitals, sometimes on a comital. She hasn't been in a psychiatric hospital for about five years, so there's that.

I get discouraged that my daughter won't recognize that she needs to seek some type of treatment and stick with it. She brings ALOT of drama and stress into our lives (me and my husband) and to a certain extent, her two brothers whenever she calls and includes them. I'm talking about calling and screaming at us, false allegations, begging for money - just highly stressful drama. But she hasn't threatened suicide or like I said, self-harmed in years. So that's somewhat encouraging. Her boyfriend "doesn't believe" in pharmaceuticals, so he's kind of a roadblock in her treatment. Not that I think some drug is going to help her, and she's been on a lot of different meds, but she might need something - I'm not the doctor.

Does anyone else in our family have BPD? Well, my ex husband (my daughter's father - we are divorced) has traits of NPD, a cluster B personality disorder like BPD. He hasn't been formally diagnosed that I'm aware of. His mother has BPD traits that we discussed often when we were married. She has problems with relationships and has been married eight times!

Anyway, I don't talk about this with anyone because they'd never believe my side of the story, so it's nice to have a place to go and see that others are experiencing the same things. I always thought my daughter was very sensitive and that perhaps we didn't respond to her as a child in the way that she needed (not in a bad way, but perhaps she felt invalidated). Since then I've learned to try and be more validating to my daughter's feelings but at some point it's a two way street and my daughter has to respect and not abuse me and to get some help.

 

[js friend]

Hi again Brit-mum,

My udd has not been formally dx but she does meet 8/9 of the criteria for Bpd. At the time when I met with the psychiatrist he said that they were more interested in the behaviour rather than giving a formal diagnosis.

In answer to your question about other family members with possible Bpd......well lets see.. Udd's father  for sure has something going on with him very similiar to udd. He has lots of anger issues, blames others for everything, very hypocritical and never apologises for anything.

His mother (udd paternal grandmother) I would say is likely NPD and talks non stop about herself and her achievements.

I also have a cousin close to my age who was very moody from a small child. One day she would speak to you the next she wouldnt. She would even tell her friends not to speak or to play with you. Many of the family keep her at a distance as she is very volatile and still falls out with people at the drop of a hat.

I also have another cousin who has been estranged from the whole family for over 25years.

I definitely see Npd/Bpd in my udd and I think she has inherited these genes but she has also experienced a lot of trauma in her early years which I think has also been a major contribution all before the age of 18.  My dad died when she was 5years old who she was very close to, she was bullied at school and also around this same time udd's father and I separated, so I think she internalised all these events along the way and together with her genes is what we have today.

[Ourworld]

Well Britmum,

I might as well chime in; there are not any mental health issues in my family that I know of, so her father was the genetic culprit.
Anyway, she has cut me off for 12 years now (27-39), granted she is very high-functioning and has college degrees, but she was in a very unhealthy marriage and self-medicating with booze, pot, and hashish for 11 of these years and left her husband (who she married in complete secrecy) last year when he went into psychosis and she could no longer communicate with him.
But, GOOD NEWS, she is finally getting treatment and has advanced in her work and looks pretty normal in her LinkedIn picture for her career.
So, I believe that there is hope for their thought processes in their mid-to-late 30’s.

(The ex-husband is doing ok and being well cared for by the Medical Assistance in the US for ex-military (Veteran Affairs (VA)).

The last time I emailed her info, because he suddenly gave me her current email address, she actually replied and unfortunately confirmed my suspicions of BPD by telling me how messed up I was and blaming me for all her negative choices in life! But, to be honest, I was pleasantly surprised that she even acknowledged me, so her negative words went right past me.

Take Care and hold your chin high, OurWorld