Daughter asking for what I cannot give

[Josie C]

My daughter (age 30) has been on a hellish downward spiral since mid-April. A few days ago she called, distraught that her therapist was “firing her.”  She wouldn’t talk about what happened in the session, only to say that she wants to end her life. She said the therapist incident simply solidified what she already knew and has felt for years.  She wants to die. 

She is suffering, feeling alone and desperate, angry and hurt, lost and useless.  She begged me to help her find resources that would give her medical aid in dying. (I don’t even know if this is a thing, but no matter, I couldn’t agree to it.)

She called again today, asking if I had considered her request.  I told her that I had thought deeply about it, and it is something I cannot do. She was devastated and spent a lot of time trying to explain why her life is not worth living. She explained in gut-wrenching, heart-breaking detail how much it would mean for her to have me hold her hand while she dies peacefully. She said she wished I had just said I was still thinking about it, because then she could go on having pleasant days knowing that the end would come.

How to cope, what to do?? I’m just sick writing this.  My husband and I have no idea where to turn.  My own T doesn’t have much to offer, other than validation that this is wretchedly hard for all of us. Calling the local crisis line results in them calling and her lying that all is fine.

There aren’t words intense enough to describe this.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family.  My heart breaks reading this and it brings me back to my BPD daughter's worst days when she was around 20.

First off, a few questions.  Can you reach out to the therapist?  In your state, there's probably a law that allows a therapist or doctor to speak with certain family members regarding your daughter's treatment.  If you're on that list, you could inquire directly to at least get a bigger picture of what happened and how to proceed immediately.  Your kid needs another therapist today and her current one probably gave a recommendation (or will).

Next, I have to touch a bit on faith here.  That's what got me through the worst of days, and ultimately  that's what got my daughter through it as well.  Do you have any religious beliefs?  Does your daughter?  If so, now is the time to lean in.

As for how to cope, all you can do is remember that your daughter is in control of her life.  As much as you want things to be different, you're powerless to do anything about it since she has free will.  This is her battle and the weight is not for you to carry.

You mentioned calling a crisis line; are you in the USA or another country?  In the US, the move would be to call 9-1-1 and report that she's a danger to herself or others, that she verbally justified taking her own life and that it's imminent.  That doesn't solve anything long-term, but it does solve the problem for a week or so as she goes from the hospital to in-patient.  Every time she mentions it, send an ambulance with police to take her away.

[BPDstinks]

hello....my heart is pounding, reading this....my 24 y/o daughter (pwBPD) has not "spoken" to me for 3 years (a couple of calls, texts...) my main point....when she was first diagnosed, she was hospitalized: when I was allowed to see her, she said, "I did not kill myself because I know you hate funerals" (I truly thought I would faint); over the course of time, she was AGAIN hospitalized, because she told her psychiatrist she did not want to be (at the time 23), she has asked me to hide her knives, take her pills (she would count them out, how many she would "need"; she has cut herself, to the point, of near hemorraghing, she did not eat for nearly a week, she flat out asked me, "would I give her permission to die"; she has shown me medical "intervention", so....here we are, she does not speak to me, b/c she said I enable her (if you see the list....how could i NOT?) about 1/2 way into "this", I literally looked to the sky and said, "Jesus, please take the wheel" I pray for my daughter EVERY single day; she is the first thing I think of in the morning and the last at night; I feel that, (be it right or wrong) I have no choice but to trust she will do the right thing & embrace life; I see a therapist who specializes in parents of people with BPD; I will pray for YOU that you find some peace (it is very hard to fine) and know that you are NOT alone in this silent battle; please feel free to reach out, if you like...I AM very sorry you are going through this....I would not wish this on my worst enemy

[CC43]

Hi Josie,

Wow, that situation really puts you in a bind.  It may be that it helps your daughter to believe she can escape her pain through death, and though she might not intend intend to end her life today, having that option can feel comforting.  However, making you a party to the whole thing feels like she's pushing you into a corner, because though you want to help her, you don't want to help her end her life.

I don't know, this is so tricky, because it seems clear to me that your daughter isn't thinking straight when she's in her hellish downward spiral, and I bet there's probably nothing you can say to make her feel any better.  Maybe you say, you see that she's in incredible pain, and it's understandable that she wants to make her pain go away, but you couldn't possibly be the person responsible for ending her life.  That is her choice to make, not yours.  But you are so grateful that she chooses to live yet another day, despite all her pain, because you would be devastated if she were gone.  I guess my point is to let her feel some control by pointing out that she makes the choice to keep living.  By the same token, if she's actively threatening suicide, you might offer to call 911 for her.  That way, it's her choice whether to accept help or not.  If she declines your offer, maybe she feels she has regained a little control, and perhaps you can breathe a little sigh of relief, thinking she's not feeling so terribly bad that she needs to call 911.

Yet the whole scenario makes me think that this is a desperate cry for help.  Her disordered thinking is just confusing her as to what kind of help she needs.  Clearly you are important to her, as she wants you to be there with her.  But she's all mixed up.  I like the other poster's idea of trying to consult with her therapist, who might have some additional insight and give some helpful tips.  I have an adult BPD stepdaughter who is about your daughter's age, and my husband has spoken with her therapist on certain occasions when she seemed to spiral out of control.  These conversations at critical junctures helped to provide insight into (or at least confirm) what was going on, and the therapist made some helpful suggestions about what to do. 

[SoVeryConfused]

Hi, I don't have any advice, but wanted to say that your response - that you had thought long and hard about it was actually really a beautiful validation that you take her seriously, understand her pain, but can't be part of that since you love her.

I'm not sure I would have answered with such poise for something like this, so I wanted to call that out to you. I'm so sorry - my daughter says things like this often, and she absolutely hates me and has for months on end, so I can't even have conversations with her and tell her I care or love her.
As awful as it is to get those calls, the silver lining is that you do have a connection with her, and she values you. There is hope in that.

[Josie C]

Thank you all for your thoughtful and supportive comments.  It feels like I am wading through quicksand, working to stay above ground but darkness is pulling me downward.  I keep re-reading your posts to clear my head and find my way forward.

It turned out my daughter had a therapy appt scheduled for Monday morning that she didn't realize, as she thought the T had terminated her.  She went to the appt, and ended up cutting it short because (as she told me) her therapist couldn't help her with what she needed (to die).  So they have ended their contact.  DD said that the T said she would contact her supervisor to see what else they could offer, but DD is not interested.  I have left several messages with the therapist, with no return call.  I'm going to try the supervisor next.  This is unusual, because her past therapists have always returned my calls especially when they felt her safety was at stake.

Yet the whole scenario makes me think that this is a desperate cry for help.  Her disordered thinking is just confusing her as to what kind of help she needs.  Clearly you are important to her, as she wants you to be there with her.  But she's all mixed up. 

I agree with this. And I do want to be there for her,  just not in the way she wants. The fact that she is drawing me into this is tearing me to pieces.  I don't even want to reach out because I fear that it will turn into another emotional cascade of heartache and pain for us both.  Last call, she was trying to talk about who could care for her two cats when she's gone.  I told her I couldn't do this.  She pushed back and told me it was the least I could do.  She flips from needing me to hating me and back again within minutes.  I'm trying to stay calm and focused and hold my boundaries, and I'm beyond exhausted.

She said she wanted to have a new therapist, "because it's nice to have someone to talk to every week" and I agreed to help her find someone.  But she's asked me to do this in the past and when I've offered options she has shut them all down.  So I'm going to try again, which I suppose is the definition of insanity.  Not easy to find someone, as we live in a rural area and there just aren't professionals working with BPD clients. Every call I've made has suggested that I reach out to the Community Mental Health agency she was already working with.  If I'm frustrated with the system, I can only imagine how alone and burdened my daughter feels.  Have I mentioned that she is adamantly opposed to DBT?  I've read that Mentalization-Based Therapy and Schema Therapy are also good approaches, but have yet to find anyone offering these services. 

In the US, the move would be to call 9-1-1 and report that she's a danger to herself or others, that she verbally justified taking her own life and that it's imminent.  That doesn't solve anything long-term, but it does solve the problem for a week or so as she goes from the hospital to in-patient.

I wish she would go to a long term in-patient.  Our experience has been that she either is released from the ER because she fakes her way out or she is admitted and stays for 4-5 days in which they take her off all meds, put her on new meds, and send her on her way with instructions to reach out to a therapist within a week of leaving the hospital.  And we get the anger, blame, mistrust, and hate. 

I know how right you are, Pook. She has free will and I'm powerless to make her do anything she doesn't choose to do.  It's her battle to fight.  She is so confused and weak and alone, with no one to advocate for her anymore.  She has alienated her friends (or at least thinks she has, so she doesn't reach out to them), doesn't contact her siblings, and often tells me that she's only contacting me because she has no one else to talk to.  So I feel compelled to do something.

Sometimes I think my own thoughts are just as disordered as hers. 

I literally looked to the sky and said, "Jesus, please take the wheel" I pray for my daughter EVERY single day; she is the first thing I think of in the morning and the last at night

I don't know how any parent could navigate this nightmare without a strong prayer life.  And yet.  It has become so overwhelming that I forget to lean into the faith that sustains me in all other circumstances.  Thank you for the encouragement.

As awful as it is to get those calls, the silver lining is that you do have a connection with her, and she values you. There is hope in that.

Thank you for this. 

[once removed]

you are carrying something that no parent should ever have to hold. not just your daughters pain, but the unbearable knowledge that she wants you to help her die. thats beyond heartbreaking. its terrifying. and it’s incredibly isolating, in a way few people will understand.

what you’re doing - staying present, staying in contact with her, not turning away - is helping, even if it doesnt feel like it.

it sounds like your daughter is using the language of assisted dying because it gives shape to something that otherwise might feel totally formless: her hopelessness. sometimes when a person feels beyond saving, they start imagining ways to end the pain that still feel relatable, still feel conceivable.

the part where she asks you to hold her hand - i wonder if that’s not just about the death, but about needing to feel held in a way she hasn’t felt in a very long time.

has she ever talked about what she imagines would need to happen for her to want to stay alive? not in a “snap out of it” kind of way. but has she let you see any part of her that still wants connection, still wants something to change?

[Josie C]

has she ever talked about what she imagines would need to happen for her to want to stay alive? not in a “snap out of it” kind of way. but has she let you see any part of her that still wants connection, still wants something to change?

Sadly, once this dysregulated, the change she wants is always from other people.  Others need to understand her better, accept her as she is, realize that she is the clear-headed one and the rest of us have a skewed view of the world.  I believe she is terrified of changing herself, so she grasps onto her identity with even more tenacity.

In better times, when the despair has lifted somewhat, a therapist can reach her.  We see small yet powerful bits of insight and willingness to face her struggles.  We last experienced this for about six weeks in Jan-Feb.  She was talking about her difficulties in keeping a job, explaining her thought process and how she needed to approach things differently. Talking about how therapy was helping and how much she trusted her T.  By mid-March she had lost any desire and lost all gains.  When I asked her why the change in thinking, she has said that was a manic episode and that it felt awful, that it isn’t how she ‘really’ thinks.

This is a good question, Once Removed. Something to really tune in to.

[CC43]

Hi Josie,

Indeed, it's heartbreaking to see some steps forward, and then steps backwards.  I can relate to that, seeing glimpses of her "old true self" during periods of relative stability, followed by a period of unhinging and regression, which is usually preceded by outrageous demands of others tinged with anger and/or desperation.  I fear my adult BPD stepdaughter is about to enter another of those phases, if not now, then in the near future, because the typical signs are there:  a period of increased neediness/demandingness, followed by dislike/rage because she can't tolerate being told no, followed by cutting off contact with loved ones.  The next step is usually a brief period of calm (for us) as she proceeds to struggle on her own, while feeling alienated from her support system of her own volition, and eventually she falls apart and spirals downward into a pit of self-loathing and despair.  I really hope that she doesn't go down this path again, but history has taught me not to get my hopes up too high.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying that you're not alone, and that the see-saw, the push and pull, the steps forward and backward are typical.  But you are her constant, and you are her biggest support, even if it feels like you are failing to get through to her.  Deep down I'm sure she knows that, even if she seems to forget it temporarily when she's in a mood. 

[kells76]

This is so painful for both of you. It is just so much to carry.

Couple of thoughts in no particular order.

Yet the whole scenario makes me think that this is a desperate cry for help.  Her disordered thinking is just confusing her as to what kind of help she needs.  Clearly you are important to her, as she wants you to be there with her.  But she's all mixed up.

That seems to ring true. If she didn't want connection she wouldn't be reaching out to you (albeit in disordered ways).

Last call, she was trying to talk about who could care for her two cats when she's gone.

She cares about her cats and wants them to be well and happy. That is validate-able in the swirl of everything else. I wouldn't validate the why of it ("when I'm gone") but there is something positive in there -- she has a loving heart for her cats, and that is a connection to the present and to living life.

Not easy to find someone, as we live in a rural area and there just aren't professionals working with BPD clients. Every call I've made has suggested that I reach out to the Community Mental Health agency she was already working with.  If I'm frustrated with the system, I can only imagine how alone and burdened my daughter feels.  Have I mentioned that she is adamantly opposed to DBT?  I've read that Mentalization-Based Therapy and Schema Therapy are also good approaches, but have yet to find anyone offering these services.  

McLean Hospital has a discussion about General Psychiatric Management that could help, in terms of broadening the pool of potential resources: A Guide to General Psychiatric Management

You are here and sharing with us and getting support for you, and you are taking one step at a time, one day at a time. Every minute that your beloved daughter only talks about suicide, but doesn't do it, is one minute closer to her making it through this chapter of darkness and getting a bit of respite.

Not sure if you've already looked at the NEABPD Family Connections™ – Managing Suicidality & Trauma Recovery Program -- could be an additional resource for you right now.

Keep posting as much as you need to... we'll be here  

[Josie C]

Kells, that link from McLean was really interesting and gave a new direction.  I had never heard of General Psychiatric Management. Wish I had learned of it 10 years ago, AND today is better than never.

My H and I took Family Connections in the winter and are signed up for the MSTR class which begins in a few weeks. I’ve also been watching webinars in the FC Alumni section.  Trying to do a little every day while still making myself do “normal” things, too. 

Thanks to everyone for the support.  In the midst of your own struggles, you take time to give hope and insight and validation.  I’m just so grateful.  I pray daily for people to be placed in my path and my daughter’s, too.  You are all a gift from above.  I pray for each of you and your families.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[ForeverDad]

988 is a Suicide and Lifeline support number.

[kells76]

Sending you hugs  
Had a conversation with our 19 year old last night (not BPD, but her mom has many traits). She wants to make permanent, life altering changes to her body, that I just cannot support or validate. I had to remind myself that at least she was talking to me, maybe she felt heard, and I did the best I could by not turning it into a big argument. And, every day that she does not make those changes, she is one day closer to being older with a more mature brain, that will maybe think twice.
It helped me last night to know that you were going thru something similar. It is hard having a young adult child when BPD is in the mix!
I hope you get some moments of peace today. We are road tripping with our youngest and a friend to camp for a night, and the two of them are being pretty funny, so I am just enjoying having non stressful time with a kid.
How does your weekend look?

[Pook075]

Sending you hugs  
Had a conversation with our 19 year old last night (not BPD, but her mom has many traits). She wants to make permanent, life altering changes to her body, that I just cannot support or validate. I had to remind myself that at least she was talking to me, maybe she felt heard, and I did the best I could by not turning it into a big argument. And, every day that she does not make those changes, she is one day closer to being older with a more mature brain, that will maybe think twice.
It helped me last night to know that you were going thru something similar. It is hard having a young adult child when BPD is in the mix!
I hope you get some moments of peace today. We are road tripping with our youngest and a friend to camp for a night, and the two of them are being pretty funny, so I am just enjoying having non stressful time with a kid.
How does your weekend look?

I went through those days not too long ago and I thought the same thing- no changes today is a win, no matter how bad it may seem otherwise.  We've had those conversations on and off for five years now, and while there is still some desire by my BPD kid, they're way less than before and we don't have the same spiraling arguments anymore. 

I simply tell her that I feel it's a mistake, but I'll love her no matter what.  What else is there to really say?