This may sound crazy

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Anyone else understand this?

I'm detaching more and more

Son's mother is still unstable as always, 4 months no contact with our son or me until yesterday.

My question, could growing up with parents who had personality disorders make me unaware of abuse? I'm learning that I couldn't trust them, so do I split now? Some days I see things clearly and understand what my past relationships were about, the pieces fit. Then I seem to forget and repeat the same behaviours and ask the same questions over and over again.

Anyone else experience this?

People must think I'm crazy or stubborn for asking them the same questions for weeks and months, they explain and I get it, then I'm asking again.

Haven't had much time to read these boards with having my son full time, apologize for this

[JerryRG]

Anyone else understand this?

I'm detaching more and more

Son's mother is still unstable as always, 4 months no contact with our son or me until yesterday.

My question, could growing up with parents who had personality disorders make me unaware of abuse? I'm learning that I couldn't trust them, so do I split now? Some days I see things clearly and understand what my past relationships were about, the pieces fit. Then I seem to forget and repeat the same behaviours and ask the same questions over and over again.

Anyone else experience this?

People must think I'm crazy or stubborn for asking them the same questions for weeks and months, they explain and I get it, then I'm asking again.

Haven't had much time to read these boards with having my son full time, apologize for this

[enlighten me]

I'm not sure if it would be a case of being unaware of the abuse or just accepting/ thinking it was normal behaviour. As we grow up we accept our families way of doing things as the norm. Whether it is a routine such as always sitting down at the table for meals or going to church or other less appetising things such as racism or political views. If we grow up with them then they are part of what we know as normal behaviour. In the case of abuse it can also be seen as normal or at least until we are introduced to a different way of looking at things.

[joeramabeme]

Jerry

First off sounds like you have made some progress with your situation having your son full time?  I read some of your posts awhile back and seem to remember you were struggling with visitation.  Congratulations - whether or not this is new - it is good news.

Regarding your question of being unaware of abuse, I agree with what Enlighten Me had to say, it is more a question of what we grew up with.  My ex had always been abusive to some degree, even in the beginning.  Part of her actions I saw as playful banter because I grew up in a very turbulent and chaotic home.  It had a familial familiarity to it all.

Further, and definitely complicating my response, I didn't see her actions as "abusive" b/c I never believed her intentions were to hurt me - I still believe that today.  This idea that her actions were not intentionally designed to hurt me allowed me to accept many things that were frankly unacceptable.  Why I accepted these things has to do with some of the messages I heard growing up about people who acted poorly but had best of intentions or loved you.  For example, my Father used to say about his abusive Sister; "she means well" or "she has a heart of gold". 

As a kid, and even as an adult, I could never reconcile his words and her actions in a logical way, but emotionally it meant to me that ultimately, whatever your actions are, you are judged by your true intentions.  Aside from the fact that this is a mixed message that is circular; it left me having to guess at what peoples intentions were and then if they hurt me trying to determine if it was "intentional" or dismiss-able. 

During my life both scenarios have played out; 1) I hurt you, but did not intend to 2) I hurt you and intended to; I was always left with having to guess at someones real motivations for their actions; 1) They were just having a bad day/moment but otherwise love me. 2) I should get even with them. 

I formulated a way to make the "intentional" determination; measure and compare their other actions towards me.  So if someone both treated me well and poorly, I could conclude that their intentions were good and so therefore, their behaviors, while hurtful, were acceptable. 

Of course, I had to stuff a lot of hurt down which meant when someone was intentionally trying to be hurtful they got all the retribution of the intended event plus the retribution of the other "acceptable" abuse.  This was all a setup for greater confusion and anxiety as sometimes my formula was wrong and I attacked someone that did not intend anything poorly to me.  Then, feeling ashamed. I would stuff all those feelings down even deeper with a greater resolve to look ever more vigilantly at others behaviors towards me to gain a better sense of judgement so I didn't get it wrong.

As I said earlier, my ex had the best of intentions towards me and so the abusive behaviors were dismissed.  My inner confusion and her insistence that she was fine and I was overreacting kept me from being anchored in my felt-experience of our interactions. 

All this continued up to the point that my degree of discomfort with the abusive behaviors became unacceptable to me and I asked her to stop.  When she told me I "deserved" it, that was like a red line in the sand for me.  I knew, but did not always feel, that I didn't "deserve" it.  Yet, she couldn't stop herself and so she tried even harder to play it off as "kidding with me" or I was being oversensitive etc.

Unfortunately, for those of us that grew up in chaotic homes, the boundaries of a healthy sense of self must get developed during our adult years, when we have already made adult decisions with an incorporated undeveloped part of childhood within us.   

You aren't crazy.  I can understand where it feels crazy trying to mature and develop into a healthy adult psyche at a point in life that is out of synch with the point in time that it should have been developed.

Hope this helps.

[Sunfl0wer]

 


My image didn't come thru

It was:
Tell me, I forget.  Teach me, I remember. Involve me, I learn.. ~Benjamin Franklin

While I realize you have come on and asked many questions... .

Have you actually taken out regular time to involve yourself with moving through the lessons on the right of the screen?

Sometimes for some folks posting here, they appear stuck in time.  Almost once again reliving the dynamic of confusion as existed in their relationship.

Imo, to get the most out of this, especially as you are posting in self awareness... .is to be focusing not on what son's mother is doing but to look at how one is responding to the events in life.  

Is life happening TO YOU?
Or are you CREATING your path in life?
Are you watching yourself and your own actions wondering where you can respond differently to life, or are you ruminating on why something has happened "to you?"

It is all a matter of perspective.

I think a good place to start or continue is the lessons on this site.
What do you think about that?

This is your life, your choices, what is it that you feel can be done differently?

[woundedPhoenix]

My question, could growing up with parents who had personality disorders make me unaware of abuse? I'm learning that I couldn't trust them, so do I split now? Some days I see things clearly and understand what my past relationships were about, the pieces fit. Then I seem to forget and repeat the same behaviours and ask the same questions over and over again.

I don't think it sounds crazy, actually your awareness sounds healthy!

I had parents who were depressed, and with my mother it may have been even been a bit more complicated. I suffered emotional neglect and abandonment.

But... .you normalize the abnormal growing up. So you don't recognize the abuse as unhealthy, instead you think you are responsible for the other person (parent or partner) not treating you well, and it is up to you to behave in such ways that the abuse will stop, and the good times may return.

Awareness grows for all of us here, but the whole process seems to be cyclical. Even when we move past the focus on our exes and the pains of the breakup, and start healing and focus on ourself, we seem to still spiral between our old reality - what we believed growing up - and the new reality - what we have learned now uncovering that our BPD relationship had striking similarities with our childhood.

I think it is a defense mechanism inside yourself that wants the old you to survive, and is not prepared yet to accept the new reality, and especially it's life changing consequences. hence you keep cycling until the new reality finally feels safe enough.

[JerryRG]

Thanks everyone

I still believe I have CPTSD

I believe I was conditioned to ignore the reality of my abuse so my abusers could get away with their abuse of me and escape their guilt.

Example:
My mother giving me baths in the dark and alone, touching me, hurting me. I would wake up and ask her what she was doing and her response was "nothing, you're dreaming, go back to sleep"
Years later I asked her what she was doing, she said she didn't remember, when I insisted on an answer she finally said, "I had to do it"
When I asked, why scare me and lie to me in the dark, her answer again, "I don't know, I just had to do it"

I got no real answers and no apologies for any wrongful action on her part. I either accept her behaviour and her answers or just let it go. I was not going to ever understand what motivated her to make the choices she made.

Much like my relationship with my ex, I was given very few explanations that made any sense, instead I got lies, distortions and just more questions.

This was the case for me while growing up, I was to blame for things I had no control over (dad's drinking) and I had to accept it. My reality was not aligned with the real world.

So now, years later I believe I have gaps in my thinking and understanding of abuse. My brain does not recognize or refuses to accept the truth.

I can learn to be well, and I am. I see healthy people and sick people and I know enough to stay away from sick people. Sometimes... .

The danger is that I go back and forth in my mind trying to grasp the reality of what occured, what part was my fault so I can correct my behaviour in the future. The lines are so blurred, when my ex sent a detective to my door a few months ago I shrugged it off. Now I scratch my head once in a while and wonder why she's doing this.

Is she angry, crazy, does she honesty believe this all happend, much like growing up it makes no sense so my brain has no where to file it. How do we let go of things like this? So much nonsense and illogical behaviours.

Like watching a demented horror movie that has no plot, I'm constantly struggling to understand insanity.

I have to let go, and I do. But occasionally I draw things back for examination.

Crazy, driving others crazy, crazy

Thanks

[Sunfl0wer]

I wonder if you recieved the self testing and self awareness you were after in posting?  If so, what was it?

How can we help with this if not?

[Herodias]

"Tell me, I forget.  Teach me, I remember. Involve me, I learn... ~Benjamin Franklin"   I love this!

Yes Jerry, you could have CPTSD ... .I think you may want to do a little bit of "healing the child within" ... .is it kind of hard, but if you can "parent" yourself and heal your past, that may help you. It isn't easy, you may need to work with a therapist. I am finding it almost better to know that my childhood was messed up , but my parents did the best they knew how and it is now my job to understand what is healthy and what is not. Figure out what your normal is... .what your boundaries and beliefs are. Have your own morals and you will feel stronger and in a better place. I feel like not all therapists want to dive into the past. Mostly the ones dealing with co-dependancy will. Check Ross Rosenberg. I think we can become aware of he past, but digging into all of that isn't always helpful. I found that I knew what I went through, but did not know what to do with the info. Just follow your head and your gut. I am finding this leads to the answer. Glad you are doing better and staying busy.

[vortex of confusion]

I absolutely think that growing up with messed up parents can make one unaware of abuse.

One of the the things that I have noticed is that ex reminds me a lot of my mother in a lot of ways. My dad and I have actually compared notes on the similarities. I was raised to accept my mother's weird behavior. Dad would say things like, "You know how your mother is." Or, my grandmother had a talk with me when I was a teen about how I had to be the adult because my mother was so immature. I think that set me up to accept ex's boundary busting behavior.

My dad isn't an emotional kind of guy and he wasn't a nagging boundary buster. He was critical in other ways that are similar to some of the things that ex did. But, dad didn't do the circular stuff that mom did.

What helped wake me up to some of it is the fact that I, personally, tried to be very different with my kids. The kids saw ex's behavior and even my mom's behavior before I did in some cases. There was one day when the oldest spent some time with my mom. She came home and said, "Mom, I think grandma's reality is broken." It has been a puzzle that I have been putting together slowly over the years.

It is really, really sad that I didn't realize how bad ex was until I started talking to guys online. I was asking for their advice about how I could get my husband interested, excited, checked in, whatever. Time after time, I was met with complete disbelief that I had not only been okay with his behavior but that I was still trying to figure out how to change myself or fix myself to make him happy. So many times as a kid, I would make myself smaller or try to figure out what other people wanted or needed to keep the peace or make other people happy. I bought into this notion that relationships were supposed to work that way. Why would I grow up and seek anything different?

The bottom line is that my normal meter was totally broken. I find that I keep asking the same questions to see if I am still getting the same answers. I think I need to hear the answers repeatedly because I am so used to having the answers change. My mom and my ex are both notorious for changing their answers and/or perceptions. If I keep asking the same questions and getting the same answers, that helps me to feel validated. And, it helps me feel less crazy. I know that I have discussed things with ex and it seems that his responses would change and I would end up feeling super crazy.