I think I've finally reached my limit. And maybe it's a good thing.

[MindfulBreath]

I believe this is the first time I'm posting on this board and not the "wanting to continue/repair relationship board". I have reached the end of my rope.

My BPDh and I have only been married for a year, but together for about 5.5. 2025 has been quite challenging so far - losing my entire career path thanks to certain political realities in the US (and the accompanying money from that career) and launching a new business that will take some significant time and dedication to become profitable.

I've always known that this new career path would be difficult for my H, because it involves providing somatic coaching, trauma healing, and other modalities to both men and women, including during week-long retreats where he doesn't have access to me for the entire time. I've been wanting to launch retreats for years, and had been slowly introducing the concept to him, including the fact that I would be unavailable during the time (I believe this is a tactic suggested in Stop Caretaking the Borderline/Narcissist).

I also set my first retreat, which took place last week, as a litmus test for the future, as I've noticed a pattern. Any time we travel together, we fight. Any time we return home from traveling, the fights get exponentially worse, and his splits can last for up to a month. Any time I travel without him, when I come back, he finds ways to punish me for weeks.

Doing my first retreat was a joyous occasion - a true hallmark moment in my life, something of which I am so proud. And people loved it.

In the middle of it, he sent me a snarky text about how I have time to repost someone's story on Instagram but can't take more than 15 seconds to speak to him in a day. Maybe I should have let it go, but I was tired of walking on eggshells. I told him how a comment like that completely messes with my energy and mindset and makes it hard for me to focus on creating an unforgettable experience for others. I told him it made me nervous about coming home to him because of how he'd act.

Shocker (not): I've come home and he's given me the silent treatment for a week. Stopped calling me by my pet name or saying I love you. Hasn't asked me how the retreat went once... such a big moment in my life!

Made the mistake of telling him that he seems unhappy and that I hope he has a good time with some friends at dinner (I've been encouraging him to make friends, because he doesn't even have one close friend or family member beyond me). This opened up a text dump, with him telling me how egotistical I am and how I never care about him or his business, and how me saying that I won't be reading his barrage of hateful messages is me silencing his voice etc. etc. etc.

Maybe this doesn't seem so bad compared to what many of you have been through. In fact, it's not that bad compared to some of the experiences I've already had with him.

The difference is, maybe he was right to be fearful of me going on retreat without him... because guess what? I remembered what it was like to LAUGH. We never laugh. I remembered what it was like to be called a loving, caring person with a big heart instead of being told that I'm cold and unsupportive. I remembered what it felt like to feel positive about the world instead of being pulled down by the incredible weight of his never-ending negativity and venom.

I want to live like that - with joy, with hope, with laughter, with love. I no longer want to live like this.

But I am terrified to leave him. He is vengeful. He holds all of our collective assets in his business, which my name is not on. He holds my ability to legally reside and work in the country where we live. Since losing my career, we've still been charging many things to my credit cards (he doesn't have one), which he periodically makes payments on but are still saddled with a LOT of debt.

I feel so stupid for letting myself get so entangled with someone in these irresponsible financial and legal ways. But of course, love makes you trust people in ways you shouldn't.

Now, I'm trying to decide if I will actually have the courage to go through with this. Today he said to me that I will never again mention the words BPD to him, and he refuses to do any more therapy.

Do I slowly try to make my exit? Do I take a break and come back later, hoping that he will have calmed down and come back into his Dr. Jekyll space?

Any tips on how to keep him from doing something crazy like leaving me with all the debt and taking all the assets I paid for? We were married in the US but live in Indonesia, where US laws have no jurisdiction. It's a mess.

[Pook075]

Let me make sure I have this right- you're the American in the relationship, right?  And you're living in Indonesia?  Also, are your event guests mainly Indonesian...or do folks travel from other countries?

I'm an American living in the Philippines with my Filipina wife, so I get that extra layer of complexity.  I could stay on a tourist visa if we ever split up, but I'd personally return to the US.  If you did separate, would you return to the states as well or would you want to stay abroad?

Before we talk about anything else, that takes some thinking about because you're talking about substantial life changes.  You're not protected under law that and leaving him means you're walking away from everything.  That's not necessarily horrible, mind you, if that's the path you have to take.  But you do have to think it out and make sure that's what's best for you.

And what about kids?  Do you guys have any?

[ForeverDad]

These are supposed to be joyous milestones--the biggest ones in my life this year, and all I can think about is if and how he will taint them with his episodes.

Part of me wants to give myself an ultimatum - if he can't support me during these most important events, it will finally be time to leave.

Well, you found out.  He won't change for you.  That is a comment we often express here, the person with BPD (pwBPD) has to want and decide to get better.  You can't do it for him.

What will the future be?  No one knows whether he will improve or not.  But thus far it's not promising.  There is a truism also expressed here, the past is a predictor of the future.  Sadly, too, rather than improving, the conflict often worsens over time.

Together for five years and married for one year.  If you haven't seen improvement thus far, then it's looking unlikely.  Sorry.  Sound like you're ready to shift your priorities?

[MindfulBreath]

Let me make sure I have this right- you're the American in the relationship, right?  And you're living in Indonesia?  Also, are your event guests mainly Indonesian...or do folks travel from other countries?

And what about kids?  Do you guys have any?

Yes, I'm the American living in Indonesia (hi! I think you replied to my very first post here, where I talked about that). My guests are mainly international.

With the cost of living and my career as an aid worker no longer existing, plus a very small family back in the US, I can't really afford to move back/don't really have the desire. I've lived overseas for more than a decade at this point in various countries. It wouldn't be the worst thing to have to leave, although losing everything would obviously be quite hard on top of what's already been a hard... decade? (I lost my mom to ALS back in 2016 and was her primary caretaker - which is how I found out about the benefits of these online fora).

We don't have kids. I just turned 40, and that's been another big gut punch. We have been talking about having kids over the past 5 years but having a certain level of emotional (and financial) stability is a requirement for me to want to bring another human into this world (my early years were populated with screaming parents). He's been putting a lot of pressure on me to have a baby - and I think that's another reason why he's been angrier lately. Because of my obvious trepidation about it. But I also know that having one would make it that much more complicated, stressful, and difficult to leave.

Sigh.

[MindfulBreath]

There is a truism also expressed here, the past is a predictor of the future.  Sadly, too, rather than improving, the conflict often worsens over time.

Together for five years and married for one year.  If you haven't seen improvement thus far, then it's looking unlikely.  Sorry.  Sound like you're ready to shift your priorities?

Thank you for reminding me what I wrote only a couple months ago. And for the hard truth that the conflict often worsens over time, while improvement stagnates.

I'm currently alternating between anger and tears. It does feel like it might finally be time.

[ForeverDad]

Pondering the legal aspects...

Probably good to determine whether the country you're in treats divorce equitably for you as a spouse with reduced financial assets.  Some jurisdictions or states may award you a better financial outcome even if the marital assets are in your spouse's name.  It may not make a difference to you right now, but in the future you might look back and wish you'd taken a closer look at the alternatives.

[MindfulBreath]

Unfortunately, where we live, bribery is alive and well in the legal system and the culture still doesn't value men and women equally.

We were supposed to draw up an agreement saying that everything we own is split 50/50, but I never signed it.

The one blessing is that we live in a very small community where word travels fast, and his reputation is VERY important to him. His culture is also very prideful, so I believe he would want to appear to be being fair.

Now I just need to think about how to keep this relatively calm and civil, because he also is very big on revenge.

[MindfulBreath]

Update: I am at that turning point in the cycle of emotional abuse. Where he's finally fizzled out on telling me all of the ways that I don't hear him and am not affectionate enough and never have his back and don't support him... and says that he's open to counseling again if I find the therapist.

I have been down this road before. This would be the fourth time we've reached the precipice of breaking up and instead tried the therapy route. But I know what is down this route, and I don't want to go there. Therapy sessions that end up being all about him and his issues and trying to figure out what will make him happy, with him eventually accusing me and the therapist of ganging up on him.

I am so tired of this. And really, I am so tired of the pattern. Because then what will likely happen is that the therapy will stop and this will happen again - another cluster of joyful moments ruined, more walking on eggshells, more hiding my true self and putting up walls because emotional intimacy is impossible with someone with [untreated?] BPD.

This is the true test. It would be easier to just stay in the pattern. Do I have the courage to finally break it?

[ForeverDad]

The hardest step to take is the one that leads you in a different direction.  If it is a better path for you, the the subsequent steps will be easier and less daunting to make.

Just as he is an adult and can make choices in his life, so too are you an adult and can make choices in your life.  This is not to say your better path will be easy.  It won't.  And very likely your disordered spouse will oppose and sabotage your efforts to take care of yourself.

Whichever and whenever you choose, peer support is here.

[Under The Bridge]

This would be the fourth time we've reached the precipice of breaking up.  I am so tired of this. And really, I am so tired of the pattern. Because then what will likely happen is that the therapy will stop and this will happen again - another cluster of joyful moments ruined, more walking on eggshells, more hiding my true self and putting up walls because emotional intimacy is impossible with someone with [untreated?] BPD.

Sadly, what you've had in a BPD relationship is usually a solid indication of what you'll continue to get, and there comes a point when you have to give this the greatest consideration, leaving out what your heart might tell you. Would you endure this - both mentally and physically - for another 20, 30, 40 years?

In my own 4-year relationship, involving many breakups and me always chasing her, I eventually realised this was now the pattern and would never change. The only question was whether I'd accept this as my chaotic life from now on, as she would never have agreed to treatment nor even accepted she had a problem. After a long hard look over the past 4 years, I stopped chasing and have no doubt that, hard though it was, I made the right decision.

I didn't listen to my heart as the heart is not a logical thing - it makes us want to be with others who we know are not good for us.

Best wishes with whatever you decide, we're all here for you.

[MindfulBreath]

Another update - he can sense when he's pushed me too far and I am really about to leave. Then he tries to start the cycle again.

Yesterday evening he sent me a looooong flowery apology, seemingly taking responsibility for being a bad husband and treating me this way and realizing that I'm a mirror for all of the things he doesn't like about himself. He's been struggling with demons. He will go to therapy, both alone and with me.

Sounds pretty good, right?

The problem is, we've done this before. This exact thing. And again, they've all centered around times when I've needed to do something without him, which then becomes overshadowed by his mega-split (visiting my family in the US, traveling for work, going on retreat, even having a platonic conversation about hiking with another man while he was present).

The main difference was that all those other times, I actually believed that he would change. This was before I read Stop Caretaking the Borderline/Narcissist and realized that I'm the protesting colluder - complaining so much about his behavior and yet extremely susceptible to believing his promises for change.

I have to do something different this time, because insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. Of course, my heart breaks when I read his message of "please promise me you won't give up on me."

It's so, so hard and it actually makes me cry. I don't want to give up on him. I want to believe him so badly. And it would be so much easier to believe him.

But I don't.

I'm still speaking to a Conscious Uncoupling coach today. I think the other thing I might do is take a break away.

In one of his messages he did say "please give me ONE more chance." I feel like that could be a compromise. But on the other hand, having that finality hanging over both of our heads does NOT invite itself to trust or emotional intimacy.

Any further advice welcome.

It meant so much to me to read your support. I live on a tiny island and feel extremely isolated through these difficult times, so thank you!

[Pook075]

I have to do something different this time, because insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. Of course, my heart breaks when I read his message of "please promise me you won't give up on me."

The thing is, you are doing something different this time.  You're in therapy.  You're with us in an online support group.  You better understand BPD and it's unique challenges.  There's a lot of new things going on.

Will that stuff make the relationship perfect?  Nope, but no relationship is perfect.  It's always give and take.  And for yours to be more successful, you'll need to find a new communication style that helps him feel "heard". 

That's all these episodes are really about- them getting insecure and reacting badly.  They take something you say or do to be a signal that you don't love them anymore, that you might be walking away.  On the outside they're tough, but on the inside everything is falling apart.  And their minds hyper-focus on the problems to the point where they begin mixing up facts, or creating new ones.  It's pure chaos and it drives them mad...until the reset button is pressed.

How do you do that?  You stop arguing over all the nonsense and just make him feel loved and respected.  You pull him closer and build him up, so he'll stop tearing everything else around him down.  And most of all, you accept that he's sick and will sometimes think irrationally because of that sickness.  The sooner you embrace him with compassion when he's struggling, the quicker you can move past it and avoid the meltdowns.

I hope that helps!  There is hope for your relationship if you choose to fight for it.  The changes (for now) will have to come from you though, so he can see the need for change as well.

[ForeverDad]

Though you've been together for several years, you've been married for only one.  What were you expecting once you married, that life would be better?  If so, that's easy to imagine, it's natural for someone to try finding a way for things to become better.

Well, what you see is what you get.  The past is often a predictor of the future.  Clearly this is not what you expected, so now it's up to you to decide whether you can prosper going forward or still struggle.

In the final analysis, the future is yours to decide.

[MindfulBreath]

The thing is, you are doing something different this time.  You're in therapy.  You're with us in an online support group.  You better understand BPD and it's unique challenges.  There's a lot of new things going on.

You're right. Although the therapy isn't new, I have a much bettter understanding about BPD and its unique challenges, and the online support group has been a great way to feel some solidarity and support.

And for yours to be more successful, you'll need to find a new communication style that helps him feel "heard". 

How do you do that?  You stop arguing over all the nonsense and just make him feel loved and respected.  You pull him closer and build him up, so he'll stop tearing everything else around him down. 

This is more challenging. I have stopped JADE'ing and just let him speak, trying to validate his feelings (and them am usually accused of being patronizing or insincere, even when I really mean it. It's very important to him that I "admit" that I'm doing something wrong/to hurt him).

When we first started dating, he told me that when he's triggered, I should pull him close, figuratively and literally. In the actual moment, I try, and he will literally and figuratively push me away. So I have mainly stopped trying (talk about feelings of rejection - it doesn't feel good to have someone yell "don't touch me!" or to completely ignore my reassurances that I do love him and that everything is going to be okay).

I have asked him multiple times how best I can support him, setting the boundary that I am not there to be a receptacle for his rage. He can't answer that question - what kind of support he actually wants/needs. I think that could be a key thing worked out with a therapist and then tested to see if it works in the midst of a split.

And most of all, you accept that he's sick and will sometimes think irrationally because of that sickness.  The sooner you embrace him with compassion when he's struggling, the quicker you can move past it and avoid the meltdowns.

I believe I've been quite tolerant of his irrationality and endless negativity over the years. I let him vent and say horrible things about other people and have stopped trying to gently point out that he might be misreading their intentions/actions (because that means I don't have his back). I see his pain and feel deep compassion for how it must feel to see the world in such a dark way. Ouch. 

The hardest part for me is accepting that he will very likely continue to spoil any important moments in our lives - or moments that are mainly a celebration of the work I've done or other close relationships that I have. I really do think that will be the defining, make-or-break element. Is it enough for me to always have drama in moments that I believe should be celebratory?

[MindfulBreath]

Though you've been together for several years, you've been married for only one.  What were you expecting once you married, that life would be better? 

Yes! I naively thought that his abandonment issues might abate and he would feel more secure, knowing that we were married. He was also doing quite well in the 8 months leading up to wedding - although now I think he also had the expectation that things would magically get better for him once we were married. Before that, I kept believing his promises to change and do the work in the fallout after every big split (before I read Stop Caretaking).

In fact, this year of marriage has by far and away been the most difficult year of our relationship. When before, we would have 3-6 months of relative stability, the splits have been MUCH more frequent. I can feel the negative impact on my body and nervous system. It's not healthy to live in a state of constant hypervigilence (where they also live), wondering when the next split will happen.

[Pook075]

This is more challenging. I have stopped JADE'ing and just let him speak, trying to validate his feelings (and them am usually accused of being patronizing or insincere, even when I really mean it. It's very important to him that I "admit" that I'm doing something wrong/to hurt him).

When we first started dating, he told me that when he's triggered, I should pull him close, figuratively and literally. In the actual moment, I try, and he will literally and figuratively push me away. So I have mainly stopped trying (talk about feelings of rejection - it doesn't feel good to have someone yell "don't touch me!" or to completely ignore my reassurances that I do love him and that everything is going to be okay).

I have asked him multiple times how best I can support him, setting the boundary that I am not there to be a receptacle for his rage. He can't answer that question - what kind of support he actually wants/needs. I think that could be a key thing worked out with a therapist and then tested to see if it works in the midst of a split.

I think I mentioned here earlier that I have a few BPDs in my life- the two main being an ex wife (of 23 years) and a 26 year old daughter.  My ex was quiet BPD while my kid had the traditional, explosive type.

When I'd ask my ex what was wrong, she'd say, "I don't know," barely above a whisper.  And I realize now that she was telling the truth, she was just filled with dread and unhealthy thoughts that would make her spiral deep into depression.  She literally had no idea what was going on.

With my kid, I'd ask what was wrong and I'd get screaming- this happened, that happened, my life sucks, the world is unfair, my boss is out to get me, my best friend is suicidal, I can't find my car keys, I don't have any money....and on and on and on.

These sound like two very different experiences, but they were honestly identical except that one was verbal and manic, the other was silent and depressed.  They were both thinking and feeling the same things though- pure chaos.

What my ex or my kid needed in those moments was for someone to lift up their spirits and just calmly talk them through balancing out their emotions.  The words coming from them are next to meaningless since it's describing their feelings during an internal crisis.  That's like looking out a window and watching a tornado destroy your neighborhood, barreling straight towards you, as a reporter asks, "How are you feeling in this moment?" 

The answer could be anything, because it's being driven by fear and panic.  It's not helpful at all...and neither is the question.

With my ex, she needed to be held, to be comforted, and told that everything was going to be okay.  With my kid, she needed me to help her calm down, take a breath, and let the moment pass.  In both cases, this was over within minutes and it kept things from going nuclear.

So when you ask, "How can I support you" to a BPD in crisis, it's sort of like saying, "What do you think of that tornado just outside our window?"  It is much more helpful to focus in on the emotions and react to that alone- if he's sad, cheer him up while making him feel loved.  If he's angry, calm him down while making him feel loved.  If he's scared, make him feel safe and loved.

I know this sounds almost ridiculous at first glance, but it's the path for communicating with BPDs.  Conversations can't happen when they're disordered, nothing at all good comes from it, so you meet their emotions with empathy and let the moment pass.  Then you can talk rationally about anything.

I believe I've been quite tolerant of his irrationality and endless negativity over the years. I let him vent and say horrible things about other people and have stopped trying to gently point out that he might be misreading their intentions/actions (because that means I don't have his back). I see his pain and feel deep compassion for how it must feel to see the world in such a dark way. Ouch. 

The hardest part for me is accepting that he will very likely continue to spoil any important moments in our lives - or moments that are mainly a celebration of the work I've done or other close relationships that I have. I really do think that will be the defining, make-or-break element. Is it enough for me to always have drama in moments that I believe should be celebratory?

These are all valid points and it's why BPD relationships fail.  Letting him vent could be a good thing in very specific instances (when the problem is not you), but most of the time it only makes his emotions spiral even further out of control.  It's much easier to skip that by leading with compassion and meeting him where he's at before the real meltdown begins.

And I agree with balancing your personal accomplishments as well- you should have someone cheering you on and supporting you.  If he cannot be that person, then should that be a deal-breaker?  For me, then answer would be yes.  The question is for you though and it's a really tough decision.

[MindfulBreath]

So when you ask, "How can I support you" to a BPD in crisis, it's sort of like saying, "What do you think of that tornado just outside our window?"  It is much more helpful to focus in on the emotions and react to that alone- if he's sad, cheer him up while making him feel loved.  If he's angry, calm him down while making him feel loved.  If he's scared, make him feel safe and loved.

Thanks for all of the context, and it's very interesting to hear how it presents in different ways for different people. I don't ask him how I can support him in the middle of a crisis - always afterwards, as I'm well aware that the rational part of the brain of any triggered person (BPD or otherwise) is no longer in the driver's seat. It's the reptilian, emotional brain. I can tell if it's a time when I can talk to him based on the size of his pupils at this point! When they are dilated, then it's a no-go.

When he's mad at the world, I've got it pretty much under control - I validate his feelings and I listen, which typically works (definitely learned the hard way that I should never see things from someone else's point of view or suggest that he might want to calm down before responding to someone... if I want to keep the peace). But once those feelings are directed at me, it's a firehose of criticism and verbal abuse that I don't know how to stop (whether that is ranting without a breath, screaming, or text-bombing). That's what I meant when I said he originally had told me to try and give him a hug when he's mad at me: when I've tried that, he pushes me away and/or claims it's insincere.

That's really the core challenge. Because when he gets into the rants and screaming, the accusations are often about how I don't support him or have his back. And he really doesn't like my boundaries of "don't speak to me that way - if you're going to speak to me that way, I am closing the door/putting on my headphones/putting down my phone."

When he's calm, I ask him how I can support him more than I already do, and he never has an answer. Which, writing it out now, makes me realize that he probably does realize that I am supporting him the best I can. In fact, when I'm back to FP status, he likes to remind me of how he wouldn't have gotten where he is without my support. Walking contradictions.

In other news - I told him that I want us to separate for a month or two so he can focus on his therapy (which he agreed to do yesterday, in his attempt to start the pattern again). I'm not really sure how he's taking it yet, except to say that he said he knew this was coming, and now I'm going to realize how much he really does for me.