For those playing along at home...

[Lalathegreat]

The past few days - completely iced out, minimal contact. Today I saw his name pop up on caller id and immediately felt my chest tighten. I couldn't bring myself to answer and it took me almost an hour to get the courage to call back. He was softspoken, and while not overly chatty had a genuine inquiry as to where I might have seen or placed some of his son's things. He mentioned that he's sick (he's ALWAYS sick) but the conversation ended without argument.

I followed up with a simple text telling him I hope he gets some rest and feels better. He responds like his old self and we text chat for almost 30 minutes as if nothing had ever happened.

So much for me trying to stay LC... .hmmmmmm

Not sure what I'm feeling. The problem is that as relieved as I am in the moment that the cold war appears to be over for the time being, I KNOW it's only a matter of time until the other shoe drops. I HATE THIS.  I HATE THIS. I HATE THIS.

Did I mention that I HATE THIS?

[formflier]

Next time chat for 10 minutes... .end it on your terms... .waaay early.


The longer you mess around with conversations... .the danger goes up.

Plus... .even more important that you start "doing" the r/s on your terms... .let him react to that... .instead of you reacting to him... .

It's a mindset...

FF

[Lalathegreat]

Dear lord you're right. I just had a tremendous lightbulb moment. 

I have spent this entire relationship in reaction mode kareening from crisis to crisis in a state of fear and anxiety and POWERLESSNESS.

DUH says everyone who's been reading my posts. 

I'm not sure that making that connection changes the outcome at this point - this relationship is incredibly abusive and there are lines that have been crossed and bells that can't be unrung and quite frankly, I don't think that it matters a bit to him how "empowered" I try to become. I have no hope that his behavior will permanently change. But for some reason it feels a little better to feel like I could at least take back some of my own freaking self respect.

[formflier]

  how "empowered" I try to become.

You are about halfway to the "real"... .duh... moment.

It always matters... .

Once you become empowered... .once you matter... .the relationship will take care of itself.

Words matter... .thoughts matter... .

Make choices... .move away from victim thinking...

Move away from defeatist theory... .  "it likely won't matter... "

Again... .it always matters for you... .

What does that mean anyway... ."the relationship will take care of itself?"

FF

[Lalathegreat]

Well, I would imagine that if I were to flip my thinking, enter each interaction in charge of my emotions and self, feeling confident in my ability to walk away when I needed on my own terms than I wouldn't be sitting here debating whether to stay in this relationship at all!

I probably would never have become an attractive target for him in the first place.

Hmmm... .

[formflier]

debating whether to stay in this relationship at all!
 
Hmmm... .

Hey... .this is a point I want to clarify... .I don't want to leave the suggestion that I think you should go.

Either choice is valid and healthy for you... .yes... .even staying can be a healthy choice, as long as you stay on your terms. 

He may or may not adjust to "the new you"... .that is not your concern, although I would imagine you would be sad if he didn't adjust.

FF

[patientandclear]

I have to push back a bit re "staying can be a healthy choice" under circumstances where there has been actually abusive behavior, not just poor relationship citizenship. Staying in a relationship where that line has been crossed, as Lala reports in some of her posts--even if you don't stay in the room for protracted periods of additional abuse--can send a message to both partners that, under some circumstances, is not healthy. Lala and each of us have to figure out where exactly our own facts line up with that truth. But it isn't the case, in my view, that in all relationships, it can be healthy to stay if you just manage it properly.

[formflier]

I certainly don't expect anyone to stay and accept or participate in abusive behavior.

I also agree that once a line is crossed, it is likely harder for the abusive person to modify/moderate their actions.

Staying on your own terms would entail no longer participating in abuse (and other things)... .

The basic thought is that you have decided to "offer" a relationship to the other person (to stay) with an understanding of boundaries in that relationship.  That you will stay inside those healthy boundaries.

Technically... it would be them leaving the r/s if they depart those.

Again... .more of a mindset... .who is in charge of the relationship.

FF

[Lalathegreat]

Thanks guys! FF - I did not take your advice as encouragement one way or the other, I was simply imagining that if I approached the current state of this relationship from the position of putting myself first and being in control that I likely would not be tolerating this BS. No more, no less.

And I agree. There have been red flags for a long time, but the physical boundary that was crossed last week is what has driven me to a place of urgency. Something either needs to drastically change, or I need to figure out how to end this. I am out of middle ground to walk on and time to hope that something will magically happen without serious intervention.

[patientandclear]

Staying on your own terms would entail no longer participating in abuse (and other things)... .

The basic thought is that you have decided to "offer" a relationship to the other person (to stay) with an understanding of boundaries in that relationship.  That you will stay inside those healthy boundaries.

Technically... it would be them leaving the r/s if they depart those.

Again... .more of a mindset... .who is in charge of the relationship.

FF

I'm sceptical of the concept of "not participating in abuse" short of leaving the relationship. If a person leaves the room/home after being spit at nightly but then returns and is again spit at nightly, she removes herself from the physical encounter, but I believe she is still "participating in abuse" by making herself available again for what she has every reason to expect will recur.

I don't know many people who, if they can leave the immediate area, will choose to remain in be physically beaten and degraded.  Normally one retreats from the room.  I wouldn't look at that as a very meaningful boundary.

I left the room every time my exH (not the man I normally post here about) hit me or spit at me or otherwise physically assaulted me.   Deeming that he left the relationship by continuing to assault me was somewhat irrelevant.  Since I returned, I was still there a few hours/days later and still available to be scapegoated, physically pounded and threatened whenever his moods took him there.

Hearing a few abusive words on your way out of the room to not participate might be viable (I tend to think it too can do harm it's hard to recover from; I was just reading a memoir by the victim of some horrific domestic violence who said it was the words that did the most lasting damage, and that was true for me). However, with physical abuse, it doesn't really work to wait for the first punch or spit and then leave the room.  One is too many.

[formflier]

it doesn't really work to wait for the first punch or spit and then leave the room.  One is too many.

Yep... .in my idea (which I DO agree is a hard path to follow... .for non and pwBPD) there would be no "waiting" for first punch or spit.

A relationship is built upon mutual respect and care.  The non would need to educate themselves about what "disrespect" and "absence of care" looks like in the very early stages.  (well before anything physical, and hopefully well before verbal abuse).  

Once those "markers" or "signals" show up the non would need to be consistent about "not participating further" until mutual respect has returned.  A very tough pathway to follow.

Sadly, I believe I agree with a broad message patientandclear appears to be sending... .that a pwBPD that has crossed certain "lines" is unlikely to "come back" to the healthy side.  I wouldn't go so far as to say unprecedented.  

I WOULD want Lalathegreat to generally understand the chances of this turning around.

FF