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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: NEED ADVICE Trouble with my 18 yr old son  (Read 588 times)
VCGM2017
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« on: March 04, 2017, 08:30:11 AM »

My first post.  Just finished a 15-mo divorce process, from a 24-yr marriage to a Narc/BPD.  We have 2 boys, 18 & 15.  15 yr old lives with me mostly.  18 yr old is angry about the divorce and our relationship has suffered.  I have consistently been there for him, loved him, listened to him, cried with him... . He has been brainwashed by my exNarc/BPD from early on in the divorce process.  Here is my issue and question out to the group:
My 18 yr old son has been showing a lot of similar behaviors as my ex over the months.  Ex has had a very big impact on him, as does my ex's mother (my MIL).  She had a HUGE part in our family break-up.  She even filed an intervention in our divorce process so I would be fighting 2 people - her and my ex.  She took a lot of the money that belonged to me - as a stay at home, homeschooling, loyal, devoted mother and wife of 24 years.  She is rich and I am now very poor and lost - looking for work for the first time in 18 years - at the age of 54.  
My son has been displaying cruel passive-aggressive behaviors (like ex) for a long time now, which could be construed at "not intentional" but I am convinced now that they ARE intentional.  (ex - posting pictures of him and his grandmother on social media while on a trip yesterday - and the pictures are hurtful!  Like they are mother & son... .like he is so happy being with her... .etc etc.).  I don't mind pics of the trip and things he saw but pictures of the both of them - arm and arm, big smiles... .why can't he just post those on Instagram (i'm not on that one) or just keep them to himself.
I am lost, confused, depressed and struggle with managing every day life.  I have good days and bad days.  I am getting better but it is slow.  I am learning how to identify and remove toxic people in my life whom I seem to be drawing.  I have been in counseling for over 3 years (which is why I had the courage to finally leave).  I really want to set a boundary with my son and protect myself.  We have had a very rough 2 weeks with him giving me some real zingers - esp with my MIL... .knowing full and well how I feel about her and what she has done.
But I feel guilt but this seems cruel -- to ask for some time away from him.  Is it?  I am not doing well and I cannot get a handle on learning how to protect myself with all these things happening from him.  I am also very angry at him this morning.  Any advice?  And if so - how do I tell him?  "I need time?"  He will be angry - like my ex... .   Thank you!  
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Mutt
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 12:34:11 PM »

Hi VCGM2017, 

Welcome

I'd like to welcome you to bpdfamily, I'm so sorry that you're going through a difficult time, a divorce from a  pwBPD/NPD is emotionally distressing to say the least  I'm glad that you have found us there is hope.

You had a long history with your ex and were married until your son reached adulthood, I can see how it would be difficult when you're marriage is dissolved and your exMIL interfered and now she's interfering with your son, which could feel like you're suffering two losses. You're son is likely going through his own grieving his own way and may have misdirected anger, what kinds of traits do you see that is similar to your ex? It's hard to say maybe he will be angry later on or maybe not, is he in counseling? How is your support network in real life? What do you do for self care?
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Relationship status: Divorced
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2017, 05:43:59 PM »

I don’t know if my response helps.

As Mutt said, your son is in grieve. His world collapsed, everything he was certain of, vanished. Anger and although he knows divorce is final, still, deep inside he hopes to see his parents together. It won’t happen, he knows. 
Kids, although said otherwise, aren’t resilient as may want us to believe or argument. It is a justification for one of the parents own distress, a deflecting argument (it is better for the kids, etc.)

Kids coop with the fact, make the best out of it, falls back into grieve. Now, still with open wounds, it is common that kids fall into ‘extreme’ behaviour, drop out at school, starting to drink, exploring ‘other’ friends, etc.

They face consequences for life. With graduations, marriages, birthdays and family gatherings. Not to mention that they divorce a 50% more than others, so there is emotional damage in trusting and sustaining a r/s.

Another part.  You know the old family dynamics. What was your son / kids like?
Was dad (ex) because of his behaviour more pleased by the kids, that they avoiding upheaval, tried to be the good boys (pleasing?)

How did dad influence the kids, specially the 18 yr old, the receptive one?
Normally (reading all the stories and knowing something about Cluster B) and as I experienced, the ‘BPD-parent” shows manipulative behaviour. Not directly, very subtile.
Making kids feel obliged (even guilty) when something asked. As to consider how the BPD will feel when the kids doesn’t agree, doesn’t want to help, doesn’t want to do something.
Like:
ever thought about it how it would make you feel when you ask me xyz and my answer is no? Did you ever?

In other words were they (special the 18yr old) smoothening in order to stabilise life for themselves and family?
Were you the parent that was ‘always’ there, comforting them, hugging them, also the one that had to set boundaries, played, helped with homework; the one to rely on, no matter what? Were you?

Having said that, towards kids: 
Nice words are so powerful, are so full of magic… Experienced it.

Your ex is now desperately trying to keep the attachment with son alive, with all means.   
The manipulation, as I mentioned, will be used with all means available. Now to paint you black. 
Manipulation in order to test and steering the wheel to drive into that loyalty conflict.
He, dad, is so damaging his own son, sadly he is not even aware of doing so.

Towards you, mom, the stable partner, kids came for a kiss, a hug, were able to show anger, discontent, honesty and telling their ‘little secrets’.   
In fact he (son) still does, but is now able to show his full anger to the stable mom.

Talk and talk with your son, please.
I lashed out to son too. Dragged him to school, had to ‘force’ him to make his homework, was sitting on top of him so to speak, made him cry (a 17 yr old at that time) and cried together!
Paid everything, school, cloths, driving lessons, etc.  His mom? Not a cent!
He succeeded for his exams and for his next one.
(O, mother -exw-  twice didn’t show up at his graduation! How hard can you let your kid fall, hurt so deeply… well she could).     

Sadly, since a 2 yr. now, moms words were so filled with powerful magic that he started to lye, started to ‘forget’ our q-time, had ‘other’ obligations with family…   
So pulled out of the gutter, supported him where I could, etc. and ‘mom’ is more lovable… 
 As moms promise to me once was:
   “I shall destroy everything that is precious to you, also the relationship with the kids!”…

Please be careful, please talk and talk and please read about all.

Literature shows, among dr. Craig Childress and David Mallen MD, that PAS is common where a parent shows at least treats of Borderline or Narcissism.
 https://drcraigchildressblog.com/2015/03/06/understanding-the-childs-experience/
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For years someone I loved once gave me boxes full of darkness.
It made me sad, it made me cry.
It took me long to understand that these were the most wonderful gifts.
It was all she had to give
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 03:37:08 PM »

You are in a difficult spot. I'm sorry your family is going through this. You and your boys will get through this rough patch. As they mature they will understand and may feel guilty with any unnecessary pain they caused you. Be strong and compassionate as he is being manipulated. I hope I never have to deal with this type of situation as my boys get older and possibly become angry with circumstances of my own divorce which like yours has not been the easiest time.

Be strong for your kids. Come here and vent when you need to.
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ForeverDad
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Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2017, 09:38:24 AM »

Counseling is seen by courts as a positive thing.  Of course, your older son is now an adult and so you have little or no legal influence over him.  But you could offer to find some way for you two to do counseling to help your relationship. You could present it as a way to let a neutral professional to listen and give some positive guidance to you both.

You minor teen could also benefit from counseling even if the need is not so urgent.
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