The Cycle ALWAYS repeats: does anyone have a different experience.

[hopealways]

Someone recently posted on here how the cycle with the BPD ALWAYS repeats. Knowing this helps detachment.
Does ANYONE have a different experience here with a BPD who actually changed or you heard later after you detached that they totally got "normal"?

[once removed]

to clarify, what cycle are we referring to?

[abraxus]

Does ANYONE have a different experience here with a BPD who actually changed or you heard later after you detached that they totally got "normal"?

To be honest you're less likely to hear of too many success stories or changes here, as those in successful, or at least functional relationships tend not to post on boards. Personally I don't think they get "normal", but they do change depending on the person they're with.

To some degree it's why I'm less convinced about therapy or researching how to handle a BPD, but that's just my own view. At best it seems to give you an ability to manage a relationship, which to me seems to fall a long way short of actually enjoying one, in any real or fulfilling sense.

From the BPD's I've known, they seem to find themselves in relationships with either rescuer/co-dependent types, who they eventually lose respect for and destroy; or the types who don't care so much, with stronger natural boundaries, who don't tolerate their bs, and who eventually kick them into touch for going too far and being a pain. If the latter tends towards being abusive, then eventually they'll leave and jump straight back to the former type, but it's usually only for a bit of relief, until they get comforted again, and bored and move on.

So yes, they can, and do change, mostly in response to who they're with, rather than any sudden epiphany. My guess would be that the most successful and long lasting relationships would be with the those who tended towards the latter, but who are strong and assertive, without being abusive.

[hopealways]

You have all had very insightful responses this is a great thread! Thanks for sharing.

ABRAXUS you are very accurate in your statement:

"From the BPD's I've known, they seem to find themselves in relationships with either rescuer/co-dependent types, who they eventually lose respect for and destroy; or the types who don't care so much, with stronger natural boundaries, who don't tolerate their bs, and who eventually kick them into touch for going too far and being a pain. If the latter tends towards being abusive, then eventually they'll leave and jump straight back to the former type, but it's usually only for a bit of relief, until they get comforted again, and bored and move on."

[Herodias]

Oddly, my ex is repeating the patterns, but his new gf is going along with everything he is putting out there. So, is he happier or will he think less of her, I expect the later. We ended up together because I got pregnant, so we got married. I miscarried. She got pregnant, so they moved in together. They baby is almost 1. No marriage. They moved out of state, he got the same job he started out with when he was with me. He has already gotten a promotion, which he was able to do with me (he is a good kiss-ass). She has now quit her job to stay home, which is what he kept trying to get me to do, but I would not. He always complained I didn't work as much as him (I have my own business) and his Mother works, so he wants his significant other to. She gave in... .She is doing some pyramid scheme sex toy party business- he always fell for those schemes. He was totally into sex toys by the 7th year of our marriage, so it's interesting to me that he is already doing this with her, which tells me he is getting bored. So yes, I see the same pattern, but with a different outcome. I didn't go along with all he wanted, she is... .maybe he likes this? I can't imagine... .I feel sorry for her, because she is getting herself trapped.

[once removed]

Someone recently posted on here how the cycle with the BPD ALWAYS repeats. Knowing this helps detachment.
Does ANYONE have a different experience here with a BPD who actually changed or you heard later after you detached that they totally got "normal"?

hopealways,

are you really looking for someone who has a different experience? youve been given the link to the success stories on the Improving board before. i shared with you one of my favorite success stories.

or are you, again, looking for validation that there was nothing you could have done, on the Detaching board, which is full of broken relationships?

if you are, thats okay. it will help you to be honest with yourself about it; state what youre looking for. the success or failure of other peoples relationships have no bearing on yours.

but does it really help with detachment? youve asked similar versions of the same question before. i dont think you quite buy it. you recycled the relationship recently. why? presumably, you had some doubts. is that part of the cycle youre referring to? is that her cycle or yours?

im pushing you a bit here - to help. youre holding hard and fast to all or nothing, black and white ideas that probably dampen the pain in the short term, but will ultimately prolong it. i did too. realizing it, being honest with yourself about it, it will help you to move forward from it. toward freedom.

[hopealways]

hopealways,

are you really looking for someone who has a different experience? youve been given the link to the success stories on the Improving board before. i shared with you one of my favorite success stories.

or are you, again, looking for validation that there was nothing you could have done, on the Detaching board, which is full of broken relationships?

if you are, thats okay. it will help you to be honest with yourself about it; state what youre looking for. the success or failure of other peoples relationships have no bearing on yours.

but does it really help with detachment? youve asked similar versions of the same question before. i dont think you quite buy it. you recycled the relationship recently. why? presumably, you had some doubts. is that part of the cycle youre referring to? is that her cycle or yours?

im pushing you a bit here - to help. youre holding hard and fast to all or nothing, black and white ideas that probably dampen the pain in the short term, but will ultimately prolong it. i did too. realizing it, being honest with yourself about it, it will help you to move forward from it. toward freedom.

No onceremoved, you're not trying to "help". You realize that I have a very valid point about the BPD being quite unable to change their personality, at best they manage some of their acting out.
The scientific and clinical evidence shows this as do hundreds of thousands of posts here.

You are wrong that the success or failure of other's relationships have no bearing on mine. This is the exact reason why we are posting here! To learn from others and apply this knowledge to past present and future relationships and gain insight.

Have I asked similar versions of the same question? Do I sense antagonism? Guess what? I will continue to post many versions of whatever I feel like and your readers actually enjoy my posts, comment about that fact, and I have some of the highest views on this board for new posts which means it strikes a chord with many readers and is worth reading.

And so what about some links you gave in the past? what's your point? That since you gave a link the premise of their "success" stories which I and many here reject, means that I cannot continue to post and share my own experiences and insight which are vastly different?

You tend to bully me and others here which is not helpful. I wonder why you do this. Is it because I sometimes quote Shari Schrieber?  Many of the people here message me in private applauding me that I have the courage to stand up to your bullying and those of other "moderators". Let me and others post in peace here. I have contributed greatly to this board and that is what it is here for. We do not need you to bully us or lecture us in the disparaging way that you do.

[FallenOne]

hopealways,

I've noticed the same thing from a few of the moderators... It seems as if it's a crime to ask the same question twice, or if something was talked about before, it can't be talked about again in a different light...

If I ask a question more than once or in a different way, I'm reminded that I was given "links" and that it's unnecessary for it to be brought up again...

I agree with you that people should be able to post whatever they are feeling (within reason) during this difficult process.

Punishing people who are in pain by restricting posting privileges and reminding us that we "already said that before" seems unnecessary, but that's just my opinion.

[Duped 1]

Agree with hopealways last post

[marti644]

I am not sure if my BPD-ex will change her cycle because of me or not. But the point is that it doesn't matter because I have no interest in being part of that life, because I am better than that.

So I have no real interest in the question. You have to ask yourself why you are even asking that question and how it relates to your own healing process. It sounds like you are stuck. Maybe you need a push? None of us wants to see someone stuck in this forum, its about moving on, no matter how hard that is.

I think some of you are being quite unfair to the moderators. Alot of us get stuck in a pattern of complaining, black and white thinking, and treating our BPD-ex's as evil, robotic people. This is not mature thinking about the subject and does not help us recover.

If the moderator's push us, instead of getting defensive and using black and white thinking to paint them black, maybe we should reflect on our own progress and wonder why we need an "us" or "them" dynamic in an internet forum board where all the moderators are against us and we are just trying to survive (add Shreiber conspiracy notes here).

We should all ask ourselves what kind of world have you built for yourself here and should it remind you of another world that someone we all know has constructed for themselves? I think, and know we are better than that.

Hopealways, kindly, just because you have some allies who agree with you doesn't mean your right, nor because you post alot and get responses doesn't mean you're on the path to healing. This forum is not about posting whatever we want, as much as we want, there are plenty of sites for that, this is a place of healing, quality over quantity. And the moderators do have our interest at heart, look at all the great material and boards they have made! And pushing us is good, it helps us build the right boundaries for us to move on with our lives.

I am not saying your not healing, or your posts are irrelevant (I enjoy them as most do actually) because I have watched your posts and know you are. I am just trying to push you on your thinking.

Hang in there, and let's focus our energy on what really matters: rebuilding ourselves and moving past the BPD relationship completely.
This isn't meant to be harsh just my two cents. This forum saved my life, and even though no moderator is perfect they do deserve credit as credit is due.

[Sadly]

Calm down guys, we all need each other. I have learnt here to look at things in ways that may have not occurred to me. I have not always agreed and there have been times when posts have made me angry or upset. When we are feeling vulnerable sometimes what feels like criticism is hard to accept. I spent all the time I was with my BPDx not being listened to, not being heard. We are all at different stages of the same journey and have had similar sometimes identical experiences and yet because we are individuals they are actually unique to us. 
Love from
Sadly x

[Herodias]

Hi, I feel the moderators are trying to put a twist on what we are thinking and/or help us to move out of ruminating over our exes. I have found myself not liking it either, but I know that is what can happen with counselors. When a counselor suggests something you don't like, you tend to not want to go back. Doesn't mean it is correct for each of our separate cases, but I realize we get stuck. It's like two steps forward, 3 steps back. It is aggravating. It does help to hear about others stories. I finally told a friend of mine a ton of stories about my ex. She had a relationship with a narcissist. She actually told me she was shocked and felt so bad for me that I went through so much. She said it shows what a strong person I am and glad I survived it and got out. She said there is no way he has changed and feels bad for his child. I seem to cry whenever I get upset that it wasn't what I wished it could have been. Yes, trauma bonded. I think it this ends almost like a death. I know people who have lost their spouse and they never forget them. I think people who divorce out of anger and feeling no longer connected or in love have an easier time moving on. For us, it's like we didn't know what was coming. That's my take on it anyway... .

[Pretty Woman]

I second Sadly.  Really, any comment from a moderator is meant with good intentions. These are individuals who have been on this site a long time and have also gone through what we have be it a partner, sibling, parent etc.

No one is trying to shut you down, but they are trying to challenge your thought process.

Everyone deserves to be heard and overall this site is very diplomatic. But when we repeat the same rhetoric over and over again, because deep down we want a different answer... .yes they will call us out on it.

I love your posts HopeAlways so I'm not criticizing, I'm just putting in my two cents regarding moderators.

For a long time I wasn't Skip's biggest fan but I "get it now". Maybe because I'm further removed from my toxic relationship? I don't know. All I know is this:

You are welcome to speak your mind here and you are just as welcome to make your own decisions.  You don't need to take anyone's advice if you don't want to. It's truly up to you. It's your life 

[Duped 1]

PW-

I respectfully disagree that all posts from moderators are made with good intentions as there appears to be a pattern with 2 of them making posts that are not helpful. This is only my opinion. This is a great site overall!

[Pretty Woman]

I agree moderators can be very persistent yet overall, and this is for me personally... .this site has been very helpful to me.

[Skip]

You tend to bully me and others here which is not helpful. I wonder why you do this. Is it because I sometimes quote __________?  Many of the people here message me in private applauding me that I have the courage to stand up to your bullying and those of other "moderators".

Hey hope', the moderators do the best we can to help. bpdfamily's model is a mentoring model where we have members at various levels in the healing process and the more advanced members try to help the younger members. It's not a perfect process and the more senior members don't always get it right - but it not about bullying (power tripping) - and its not about selling services (telling you what you want to hear to sell services). There is clinical oversight in what we do and how moderators perform. There are a hundred thousand cases that we have learned from - members who went on to have productive relationships and members that struggled again and again. We all learn from that. It's not a perfect process - far from it  - but it is a sincere one - and many folks have grown here.

No one really cares what other resources any members use to help themselves. Conversely, we are a clinical and evidence based support group with clinical oversight so we have some standards for what is posted here. That is our charter and who we are. It's the reason members choose this site. The Mayo clinic has a good write-up about support groups and one point that make is that you should have faith in the leaders of the group you use - or put another way, don't join a group that you don't have faith in the leaders.  

To be honest you're less likely to hear of too many success stories or changes here, as those in successful, or at least functional relationships tend not to post on boards. Personally I don't think they get "normal", but they do change depending on the person they're with.

I tend to agree with this perspective.

1. Relationship instability is a symptom of BPD.

2. People in relationships with pwBPD tend to have attachment issues, or as pointed out in one study, half have traits of personality disorders themselves - commonly NPD or DPD.

3. Most of the partner on this board are not clinically BPD, they have traits.

4. Most of us don't have a PD or an attachment disorder, but many have some traits.

5. This is the "wounded from a failed relationship board (Detaching)" and the likelihood anyone is going to stand up and point to a success is not likely.

The fact is that finding a long term relationship partner is hard. Most relationships fail within 90 days. 50% of marriages fail. Relationships with pwBPD traits or the disorder, fail more often than other relationships.

Regardless of the above, people in all walks or life still find love and stability.

To some degree it's why I'm less convinced about therapy or researching how to handle a BPD, but that's just my own view. At best it seems to give you an ability to manage a relationship, which to me seems to fall a long way short of actually enjoying one, in any real or fulfilling sense.

Of course, all things being equal, we shouldn't target partners with mental illness with the idea that we will learn tools to make the illness moot. That's not what these tools are all about anyway - the tools are for to help existing families. They help immensely. They are not magic anymore than a wheelchair is magic for someone confined to one. They help immensely. Life is still more challenging.

The Cycle ALWAYS repeats: does anyone have a different experience.

This is a good question... .but maybe the question should be about ourselves.

I've had the fortune to see many members here channel their wounds into learning more about human psychology and more about relationship skills and have turned their partnership relationships around to be deeper and more fulfilling.

Are you (anyone reading) on that track?

We were not victims like a mugging victim who had a 65 second encounter with a thief who stole their wallet. We were attracted to defective relationship, bought into defective relationship, struggled within defective relationship, and struggled after the defective relationship was over to recover in an emotionally intelligent way.

Are we on a track to not being this person in the next relationship? Do we have better skills to understand our new partners and being able to delineate "relationship stuff" from "pathology". Our we on a track to better knowing how to understand and react to the adverse situations that all relationships face?  Our we on a track to know when our relationship evolution (all relationships evolve and change) shows the early signs of toxicity and have the skills to either reverse the toxicity or, if we can't (50% of the relationship comes from the other person), have the strength to let go of our investment and reject our own fears of "giving up the dream" and plunge head first back into the single world which is inherently uncertain.