having to live with BPD spouse during divorce process

[byfaith]

     

I have to go through this to get to the other side. I can't move out and I can't kick her and her son (32 year old paranoid schizo) out and make them move. It all has to do with $$$$.
The laziness of people just disgusts me at times. It took this long to really realize how much I have been used over the past several years. I am venting here because I have to go home and keep my cool. She is out for her pound of flesh and all the while acting like she means no malice. I guess when someone realizes that they may have to go get a job to take care of themselves they begin to find ways to survive (other than getting a job)

I am over here from the conflicted deciding boards. I have to go right now but I will be back and explain specifics.

I have an attorney and I am waiting to get served from her attorney. 

 

[SES]

Things may heat up as the divorce progresses.  What steps are you taking to protect yourself?

[byfaith]

As far as I can see I am protecting myself. My first post was out of anger. I am asking anyone who has experienced living with a BPD spouse during divorce. I am sure this situation would be hard enough with someone that doesnt have severe emotional problems.

How do i / we establish guidelines? How were you able to acheive this in your situation? Maybe its next to impossible?

[flourdust]

Hi, byfaith. I'm about a year ahead of you in this journey. When I was initially planning my divorce, I liked the idea of cohabitating. It saves money for all concerned, you split up chores and responsibilities, it makes communication more efficient.

Of course, these reasons make perfect sense for an amiable business relationship, not a volatile divorce with unstable people.

The bottom line is that nobody thought this was a good idea except for me -- not this board, not friends, not my attorney. And they were right. Divorce is incredibly abandoning and stressful for even well-adjusted people. Even an amiable divorce has aspects where you and your spouse are going to be opponents -- and what you are looking at is far from an amiable divorce.

I know it's financially difficult to separate your living spaces ... .but I think you need to suck it up and ask yourself if it is in ANY way financially possible. Even if that means going into debt, losing assets you don't want to lose, etc. I strongly encourage you to bite the bullet and make it happen while you still have some control over the situation.

[ForeverDad]

If there are no minor children involved then there are no custody issues, generally the biggest hot-button issue of a high conflict divorce.  However, there still remain other issues, how the debts and assets are split, whether there will be any short-term support for the financially 'disadvantaged' spouse and of course how you can keep the case moving and resolved in a reasonable amount of time.

One tactic you need to keep in mind is to keep the case moving along.  Courts don't mind if things go slow, they know emotions are high at the beginning of a case and hope it will calm down enough for the spouses to reach an equitable settlement.  Generally our ex-spouses , as messed up as they are, saw benefits to delaying the case as long as possible.  That is your financial situation, the longer the case goes on, most likely the more financially impacted you are.

So if she seeks a continuance without good basis, your lawyer can and should object.  Still, courts generally allow a couple continuances before getting peeved about the delays.  But beware when the other side says they need more time to make or consider and offer and was the case taken off the calendar.  "Sorry, continue pondering the offer but the case stays active."  Generally we don't get settlements early in a case, the stbEx is simply too entitled.  If there are settlements, they're usually closer or even just before a major hearing or trial.

And sometimes a settlement simply isn't possible, the parties are too far apart, the court has to step in to decide.  That's not a bad thing even if it takes time to get before the judge, in most cases the judge's decision is "less unfair" than what crumbs the stbEx would toss our way.

A question... .why are you waiting for her lawyer to serve you?  You can file a case just as easily as her.  And odds are her initial submission will include all sorts of abuse claims of her posturing as target and victim.  Odds are that if she files first then you will have to start out in a Defensive mode.

[SES]

 I shared a house with my wife and our kids for a Year until the house sold.  She carried her affair on throughout, and rubbed my nose in it.  She asked that her boyfriend move in with us.  I was advised by lawyer not to move out as house would not sell, and my contact with kids would be jeopardised.  It was the worst year of my life.  She ended up under mental health services for a period of time.  She ended up with a criminal record for assaulting me.  She made false allegations about me every month , including to the police, children's services, the kids school and my employer.  I was arrested and spent a night in police custody... .released next day no charges.  The baiting was non stop... .from waking me at 6am to tell me how useless I was, walking round the house in her underwear singing pharel Williams 'Happy', telling me that i was mentally unstable, death threats... .it was endless.  She refused to pay her share of bills.  When she moved out she emptied the house of almost everything of value, including my dead sister's personal effects.  She made my life a living hell... .and continues to do the same . She sabotaged at least one house sale. I had to put up with constant threats that she was going to stop me seeing my children. 

In my case, I ended up audio recording every moment I was in the house... .which became very helpful in the face of three police investigations.  Via lawyers she had agreed to share bills... .but didn't, leaving me thousands out of pocket. 

The positive is that I have my kids 50 50... .and that throught that Year I made sure I had them 50 50.  The positive is that the house sold, and that I was able to move on with my life. 

The negatives... .it really was the worst year of my life.  It had an impact on  our kids and me.  It involved a lot of risk.  Once she decided to trash me... .she went all out. 

I hope things go well for you. 

[flourdust]

A question... .why are you waiting for her lawyer to serve you?  You can file a case just as easily as her.  And odds are her initial submission will include all sorts of abuse claims of her posturing as target and victim.  Odds are that if she files first then you will have to start out in a Defensive mode.

This is a good point. As I've met with court officers and evaluators, they've all commented on me being the plaintiff. The assumption is that I have grievances and that I'm coming from a place of being mistreated. I can imagine that it's more difficult (and fits a common male stereotype) if the roles were reversed.

[Reader9]

Hi, I hope you don't mind my 2 cents, as I haven't divorced a BPD spouse, although I left a r/s from a bf I suspected had BPD. Previous to that r/s I went through a fairly amicable divorce and I can't imagine living in the same home with a spouse you are divorcing. It is incredibly stressful, both of you will get angry and the issues of money and splitting up things are  huge. I found I also needed time away from the r/s and my husband, to just process being separated and experiencing all the feelings that went with a failed marriage. He needed to also accept my decision to divorce and being in the same home doesn't send a clear message. I don't think it is fair to all involved to stay in the same home, to yourself and your wife. I would do anything, including going into debt (which did happen to me) to not be in the same home. You can rent a room in someone's home, until you get on your feet (not sure who owns or rents your home in your situation). At some point, both people have to accept the split and they need to find homes, jobs, etc and get on with it.  I do hope all goes well as you move forward. I've been reading your posts and feel for you.

[byfaith]

a lot of good things brought up here, thanks for your comments and suggestions.

My wife filed for divorce back on Jan 31 she just did not have me served yet. She had already paid her lawyer for half of the retainer. I am not really sure if she was doing this because she was protecting herself in case I filed? She claims that I threatened divorce, which I did not, anyway she filed.
She got the money from her mom (long story). Well her mom sent her the other half of the retainer and my wife put it in our joint checking account.
(I do have a separate checking account BTW)

Ok so my wife drags her feet on having me served.

I left the house for a week at the beginning of March because I was being threatened physically. I came back after a week but realized that I was done with the marriage.
During that month there were a couple of situations that came up that needed funding. Water heater went out, AC messed up... .had to dip into that money that was lent to her by her mom. I said that I would have it back into the account in a week or so. Things got messed up and that didn't work out.

So about a week and half ago I decided I am going to go borrow money to hire a lawyer, and pay her back. I hired my lawyer, I told her that I wanted the divorce and to have her go ahead and get me served (my lawyers advice). My lawyer had already read the divorce complaint that was filed by my wife when I went for a consultation about 2 months ago.

I sent the check directly to her lawyer so it was not sitting in a joint checking. My thinking is that if I don't get served this week that I will just have my lawyer file. I know her lawyer received payment last Wednesday.

My wife does not work, will not work but she is capable. She uses her son as an excuse. He is 32 has paranoid schiz and had some disability from a stroke he had 13 years ago. Too many details to discuss about that situation here.

BF



 

[byfaith]

I know it's financially difficult to separate your living spaces ... .but I think you need to suck it up and ask yourself if it is in ANY way financially possible. Even if that means going into debt, losing assets you don't want to lose, etc. I strongly encourage you to bite the bullet and make it happen while you still have some control over the situation.

Trust me FD If I could I would. There is just no way, even sucking it up. I totally understand what you are saying though.

It was 9 days ago I told her just to proceed with the divorce. This is something I will have to discuss with my lawyer. Her son has been paying $300 towards household expenses for 4 years now. This come out of his disability check. Again, she does not , will not work. Her stance now since I said to proceed is that he doesn't owe that money. She said she is keeping it and putting it back for when they have to find a place to live after the divorce. She said she is finding out if it is legally possible for her to do this with this money.

As it stands I pay all the bills, period.
I am willing to give my wife $150 per week, plus what her son gives monthly $300. That comes out to $225 per week. She has no bills to pay. Also after his $300 he still has over $400 for the rest of the month.

She is going to go against this... .is this something I should discuss with my lawyer?

We have a joint checking and I have my own checking which I have started direct depositing my pay into a couple of weeks ago. I can access online both accounts and transfer between the two. If I take my name off the joint I will not be able to transfer money or see what is being spent. I looked this morning and she had spent $23 on an online game she plays. Since Jan 1 she has spent over $600 on this game.

Not sure how to handle this   

[Panda39]

I was not married to someone with BPD I am on this site because of my SO's uBPDxw but I was married to an alcoholic and lived with him a year while we divorced and sold our house.  I did not have to contend with the BPD behaviors described on these boards and I can say my experience was miserable... .an incredible lesson in patience.

I began planning to leave 2/2009... .investigating the divorce process, collecting documents I might need, thinking about where I would live (trying to keep my son at the same school), doing minor repairs to the house etc.  I was planning on telling my husband when my son was done with school for the summer but couldn't wait that long.  Told my husband I wanted a divorce in 4/2009, filed 5/2009, put the house on the market 5/2009, divorce final 8/2009, 9/2009 house under contract (short sale - during the housing bubble), the short sale was a 6 month process we finally signed off on the paperwork 3/2010.

I was lucky my husband worked nights and I worked days so we did not spend that much time together. I don't know if I could have shared the house during the divorce if I had to see him everyday. Friday nights (I would usually come home to drunk man looking to pick a fight) were the worst along with Saturdays because we were both home all day.  The tension was awful and I did my best to be out of the house.  I was questioned about why I was chewing gum (I never did that before), or why I was wearing jeans (I didn't normally do that), accused of being a lesbian, accused of sleeping with the local college football team, told he loved me (he hadn't said those words to me in years), told I smelled good (ewww creeepy) etc... .I had to endure a drunken melt down when the realtors came to take pictures of the house.

My advice is to plan, copy documents you may need, move small personal items that you value out of the house (my SO lost a meaningful photo album for example) and get out even if your standard of living needs to go down some.  You might experience financial stress but that is something that you can manage, staying in a stress filled house where you are emotionally abused or worse (false allegations of abuse or she physically abuses you) to me is not a wise choice.

Panda39
 

[flourdust]

Usual disclaimer - I'm not an attorney, yada yada. My experience with divorce is in my own state; your mileage may differ.

My wife filed for divorce back on Jan 31 she just did not have me served yet.

There may be some confusion here. The legal divorce process starts when one of you files with the court, and you receive a case number. The other spouse must then be notified that they are named in a court filing -- that's the "being served" part. So, your wife could not have filed without serving you. What she might have done is had a petition for divorce typed up all neat and legal and given that to you but not filed it with the court. Did she do that?

Until you have a case number with the court, which should start the ball rolling in terms of scheduling hearings, there is no legal filing for divorce. So, you still have the opportunity to be the one to file (making you the petitioner and her the respondent), which is potentially a stronger position to start from.

An alternate path is to take her written petition and use it as a starting point for negotiations in mediation. It's possible to mediate the terms of settlement, have a new divorce petition written up, and have it filed with the court, signed by both parties. You get a case number, the court confirms that the terms are legal, and you're divorced.

Her stance now since I said to proceed is that he doesn't owe that money. She said she is keeping it and putting it back for when they have to find a place to live after the divorce. She said she is finding out if it is legally possible for her to do this with this money.

I am willing to give my wife $150 per week, plus what her son gives monthly $300. That comes out to $225 per week. She has no bills to pay. Also after his $300 he still has over $400 for the rest of the month.

She is going to go against this... .is this something I should discuss with my lawyer?

Yes, absolutely you should. Financial settlements, including division of assets and any maintenance payments owed to her, are negotiable within the parameters of your state's laws. (Your state may have clear guidelines for how assets are divided and what the formula is for spousal maintenance ... .or it may not.) Anything that she says -- or you say, for that matter -- about who owes what to whom, or what money belongs to whom, or who pays the bills -- is just talk.

Right now, you are married. Your state most likely considers assets and debts joint, with both parties responsible for them, regardless of what either of you feels is fair. It will take an actual divorce to start separating those assets and obligations legally.

Going back to what I said above -- your divorce clock starts ticking when you get a case number. Your lawyer can advise you on the specifics in your state -- one possibility is that after the date you get your case number, any assets or debts are individual property, not joint. (It might also be a later date, such as the date of your first hearing.) But that definitely won't be the case until you file.

[ForeverDad]

I've read before where some spouses filed divorce cases but delayed going to the next step of delivering service.  They never knew until the looked themselves up in their local court and found something just sitting there.  So that may be possible in some states.  My state automatically serves the other spouse upon filing.

I'm not very concerned that you have a joint bank account, unless your spouse is likely to get fees changed such as for bounced checks.  What you don't want is joint credit cards, joint loans or other obligations.  Some companies won't let you close the account until the balance is zero.  You can try to put a joint credit account on hold or suspend it, but then the spouse can just call in and get the hold or suspension released and you're back to where you were before.

Joint ownerships are also potential concerns, particularly if you were the primary payer.  Home, vehicle, vacation home, all can have half or more of the equity out of your control.

Being nice or overly sharing can backfire if the relationship ends.

[byfaith]

I've read before where some spouses filed divorce cases but delayed going to the next step of delivering service.

Yes this is the case. When I consulted with attorney back on 3/9 he called the courthouse and found she had filed. He brought a copy to look over.
Filing date was 1/31.

service should be delivered this week. A check cleared in the joint checking today for a serving fee. My attorney told me that when they either call him to accept service or I am served by a constable or whoever then he will start working on a counter complaint.

In her complaint she is asking for me to repay any legal fees and also alimony. There are, from my understanding, different types of alimony. Transitional alimony possibly. She also stated marital misconduct and irreconcilable differences.

Also I own the house her name is not on the mortgage.

[ForeverDad]

You can try to have her legal fees and costs discounted against any marital equity she may get.  I was married over 15 years and while I did pay court costs (generally minimal amounts) I never paid my ex's lawyer fees.  She clearly paid it out of her marital equity or perhaps had lawyers who accepted other funding.

Remember, just because she asks for the sun, moon and stars, it doesn't mean she will get it all.  Those are standard demands.  I recall that the court mostly ignored what I stated in my divorce filing.  Filled with facts and never really referenced thereafter.

I had a relatively long marriage and so I did pay some short term alimony.  Actually, I believe it was a quite low rate, just 2 months for every year.  Alimony is generally no longer than half the length of the marriage and very often less.  You're right, these days alimony is more and more being seen as "transitional" support to help the disadvantaged spouse transition into post-marriage life.

These days most states ignore the sour-grapes claims included in divorce claims.  Most states don't care about infidelity claims, they just handle unwinding the primary relationship issues - custody, assets and debts.  Irreconcilable Differences may be the reason given for a divorce but isn't in itself basis to lay blame.

Your position ought to be that she should not be sitting home but instead seeking work or a career, good for her to become self-sufficient and not be a drain on society.

[byfaith]

Thanks for all the information. This coming June we will be married 5 1/2 years. I am going to have to learn to decrease my stress level and let things take their course.

I am wanting to ask the attorney this question and that question but I know it costs. I sent him an email yesterday and he kindly emailed me back and told me you are being impatient and in bold type YOU ARE WASTING MONEY

I am also still processing some emotional stuff. I am trying to keep those feelings in the right place.

[ForeverDad]

I had a very high conflict divorce, although my lawyer had estimated a divorce with children taking 7-9 months, it turned out to be nearly two years.  I recall at one visit to his office and me listing all the things she was doing, he tried to help me get perspective, ":)o you want a $5K divorce or a $30K divorce?"  At that time we must have been somewhere early in the case, not yet having spent much money.  I still spent way more than $5K, you can't do two years that cheap.  But he had an excellent point, we can't get every little thing fixed.  And court won't deal with all the unfair details.

I think your lawyer was making a fine point too, focus on the important issues so your funds are well spent, not wasted.  Yes, you want it over and done with ASAP but one reality of divorce is that if the other wants to drag it out, then that will probably happen.  So deal with it in a financially smart way.

And I think your lawyer was saying too that you're too emotionally involved in it.  Yes, lawyers seem too unemotional.  I've even complained about it here in the past, that for them it was another day at work, for us it was our lives and families.  However... .I recall my lawyer, after years of in and out of court, saying he was starting to get emotionally invested in the case and he verbalized that without his usual emotional distance he wouldn't be able to represent me as well.  So, can you step back a bit, "Let Go" some of the emotional pressure?  Can you Accept that though it is tough now, later you will look back at all this distress as over and done with, with a better future going forward?

[SES]

My divorce has taken over 2 1/2 years, and still not divorced.  It has been expensive. I have spend over £20K. I don't have any control over it. But , time has been a great healer.  And nothing lasts forever.

[formflier]

Byfaith,

Please confirm that you had sole title to your house before you were married and were the sole person on the mortage.

Did you make any changes to the ownership of the house after marriage?

Did you refinance at all after marriage?

Can you prove that the son has been paying $300 per month?  :)oubtful there is a formal lease... .is there any documentation.

Where I am going with this is to wait until he hasn't paid, then send him a certified return receipt demand for payment (basically follow eviction law in your state).

The housing expenses don't go away just because of the divorce... .his income is still there... .

Don't be afraid to exert pressure for YOUR benefit.  

Thoughts?

FF