One of his final accusations...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Several days before our final conflict, pwBPD had an argument that lasted the better part of 4 hours. As part of this argument he sat there and very deliberately listed all of the things that he had "given up" to be with me. This list essentially detailed how he stopped spending time with his friends, stopped befriending "other women" (I'm pretty sure he had a small harem of "f-buddies". Whether they KNEW they were just casual sex friends or whether he was leading them on remains unclear), stopped going to the game store and playing games with people, and that I had left him emotionally STARVING by not communicating enough or allowing him to be fully in my life. That I had cost him his job, had spent him into the poorhouse (I have never received gifts from him - the only thing he could be referring to is food, dining out, and the occasional movie date), and had stolen his confidence until he wasn't sure how he would move forward or get his sanity back. That I didn't respect him, appreciate him, or understand him. That he deserved MORE.

And I can't get over this to save my life.

I KNOW logically that this is his broken perspective, NOT reality, but as I sit here trying to reconcile all of these accusations so that I can find peace moving forward, I still find myself devastated by this conversation. I NEVER asked for him to make any of these sacrifices (except the women when we became sexual), and it was never my intention to end up as the only person in his life. But the guilt I feel is wretched. I feel like I broke him.

And then I reread my lists and think about the spitting, the raging, the constant walking on eggshells, the emotional abandonment, the constant accusations and I realize that once again - I am TRYING to make this my fault by accepting HIS reality.

How do I stop? When will I be able to look back and know where the lines are between reality and BPD? Where I ONLY accept responsibility for the things that are actually my fault?

[Lalathegreat]

Several days before our final conflict, pwBPD had an argument that lasted the better part of 4 hours. As part of this argument he sat there and very deliberately listed all of the things that he had "given up" to be with me. This list essentially detailed how he stopped spending time with his friends, stopped befriending "other women" (I'm pretty sure he had a small harem of "f-buddies". Whether they KNEW they were just casual sex friends or whether he was leading them on remains unclear), stopped going to the game store and playing games with people, and that I had left him emotionally STARVING by not communicating enough or allowing him to be fully in my life. That I had cost him his job, had spent him into the poorhouse (I have never received gifts from him - the only thing he could be referring to is food, dining out, and the occasional movie date), and had stolen his confidence until he wasn't sure how he would move forward or get his sanity back. That I didn't respect him, appreciate him, or understand him. That he deserved MORE.

And I can't get over this to save my life.

I KNOW logically that this is his broken perspective, NOT reality, but as I sit here trying to reconcile all of these accusations so that I can find peace moving forward, I still find myself devastated by this conversation. I NEVER asked for him to make any of these sacrifices (except the women when we became sexual), and it was never my intention to end up as the only person in his life. But the guilt I feel is wretched. I feel like I broke him.

And then I reread my lists and think about the spitting, the raging, the constant walking on eggshells, the emotional abandonment, the constant accusations and I realize that once again - I am TRYING to make this my fault by accepting HIS reality.

How do I stop? When will I be able to look back and know where the lines are between reality and BPD? Where I ONLY accept responsibility for the things that are actually my fault?

[boothbear]

It was accusations like you described that finally led me to this site.  In my situation they were projecting.  Have you considered this?

[roberto516]

I'm trying to do the same but it's reverse. I was the one who told her many of those things. And I feel bad. Until I realize many of them were true. The subtle ways to keep me close and controlled. The jealousy and lack of interest to see my friends which kept me away from them a lot. The jealousy etc.

So it's interesting for sure

[patientandclear]

Lala -- when you delve deeply into the logic of BPD, which I don't necessarily recommend as a way out (see post on your other thread from For My Sons which I think may provide a shortcut through this horrible passage) ... .you learn that the sense of persecution that many pwBPD feel is very deep, very complex, and has little to do with what was actually going on btwn you two.  I'm sure you were very fair and a great partner.  :)ude is not even hardly dealing with you when he says these things.  He is facing down a long buried history that antedates you, where possibly people DID make him give up who he is in order to receive love or even hope to do so.

You can't take it on personally.  He is not wrong to not want to have to give up himself to receive love.  He is wrong that you wanted him to or that that was a fear he has that is specifically about you.

I know from experience that it is quite hard to bear this constantly in mind, and not let the accusations dig into some self-doubt track you may already have running in your head from other experiences in your past.  (Ask me how I know this.)  But of course, it is easier to see for others than for ourselves.

Your ex likely has good reasons to be afraid of compromising who he is in order to be loved.  You did not cause this, and your good example wasn't going to be enough for him to let go of those fears.

pwBPD are going to manifest fears that have no current basis, in a variety of ways.  Radical acceptance means accepting that.  Some of the manifestations are things that possibly can be managed by a quasi-healthy individual (verbal tirades > leave the room) (though I am personally skeptical that just ignoring or avoiding verbal abuse truly insulates us from the damage we take from being hated and resented even part-time by those we love).  When it extends to physical terror and control moves, like it did with your ex, or serially seeking out other companions, as with my ex, there isn't a lot of space left for you to manage their fears and still maintain a viable current relationship.

He is scared but not because of anything you were doing.  It's awfully sad but it is also very very deeply rooted. Also, he himself likely doesn't understand this, and at least a lot of the time, believes his own story about how you are causing the dynamic.  So that makes it very tough to overcome.

[talking rose]

Hi Lala,
I am in a similar place as you right now, trying to stop internalizing his projections.  It's even worse because he has been telling other people, so I am hearing it back from others too, not just from him, and it's doing something damaging to my psyche on a very deep level.  It is hard to hear feedback about yourself and not take it personally, even when you know it is not based on anything you said or did.
Maybe it's easier to be a borderline, in this way.  If you start thinking something about yourself you don't like, you can just project it onto the nearest significant other, and then blame them for all your bad feelings. 

Interesting that you mention 4 hour long conversation.  When my (soon to be ex) husband would be having one of his rage episodes, he would often go on for hours, 3 to 4 hours being the norm, and then the craziest part is that the next day, he would be upset at me for keeping him up all night arguing!  He is complaining to people now that I keep him up all night arguing for hours, as an example of how I push his buttons.  I can't really defend myself because if I say it's hours of him raging at me, I am just proving that the hours long conversations do actually happen.

Yet somehow I find myself wondering if I am partially to blame by not just leaving the room after a few minutes of the raging.  By trying to reason with raging, he is blaming me for it, and I am now blaming myself!

Point is, the borderlines accusations are crazy making.  We are the proof that it works.  A normal thinking mind cannot digest the fact that someone who we love/loved, who is smart and seems normal on the outside, has such a completely different concept of reality than us.  So we try to find a compromise between their accusations and our own reality. And it's enough to make anyone insane.

[Owen]

Hey Lala,

I don't have any advice yet about this particular situation, but know that I'm in it too with my uBPDex - you're not alone.

Even after being NC for several weeks now (by my decision), I think about all the claims that she made that painted me as an inconsiderate, unloving, ungrateful partner who she had to give everything up for, and who never gave anything in return. And when I think about them, I do question whether there was any validity to them. The worst part is that often I feel there's a sliver of truth, maybe even just 1% of it, that she, and you, can latch on to that helps you believe her distorted thinking.

Right now, I'm simply trying to remember that there is something she needed from me that I wasn't wiling to give. My self respect and my emotional and (potentially physical) safety.

You're not alone in this. Stay strong.

[Aesir]

 I understand where you are coming from.I remember when I told my ex she had been raging all day (figure of speech) she accused me of lying and said I'd only been over her house for 3 hours. I was evil one way or the other. After this tirade the relationship in my eyes was essentially over but I had to find the strength after so many years to separate from her.

 This took months but during that time she went into more rages. The last argument she started (I mistakenly triggered her) was dumb on the surface but she used it to shift blame  to  other things in her life that I had no control over or decisions that SHE made. Also on things that I had  explained to her several times or thought the subject was closed.That was the end and I had reached a breaking point. At some point one has to make a decision to protect themselves and what ever future he/she may have.

[HopinAndPrayin]

Lala,

It took me months (about 3) after the final break to get the final arguments out of my head.  They had several elements in common with yours.

Three things helped:
1.  Line out each individual item in a single column.  In the column next to it write down your truth about the accusation.  Make a 3rd column and use the "average person" test.  What would the average person do in that situation?  I couldn't fill out the "average person column myself because I felt too much guilt, so I worked through it with my T.  I also ran through it with my sister who lived with us to see what was reasonable.  That column also eventually helped me see that the "average person" wouldn't have gotten that far in.

2.  Take a step back and look at the complaints.  We can not make people do things.  We can not make them give up friendships or give up video games.  But also, take a look and think about this - a grown adult is blaming you for having to give up childish hobbies.  A grown adult is complaining about your spending - were you paying all the household bills?  Were you stealing their money?  Taking a step back can give you some much needed perspective.

3.  Accept that you did the best you possibly could in an insane situation.  My guess is your ex was unable to ever own up to any contribution to troubles the two of you faced.  The sicker they are, the easier it is to see.  But in reality, our worldview is biased by overfunctioning.  The measure of a relationship is not you gave everything and in some way weren't perfect.  It is about reciprocity.  What did you ex contribute positively to your life together and to their own life?  My guess is that list won't be very long.  I uncovered a blatant pattern of doing something nice right before asking for money, my car, etc. that's a transaction, not a relationship.  Often the complaints seem to boil down to you didn't act like a benevolent parent who gave everything to every whim I uttered or hinted around.  If you call them on it they didn't ask for it. again, going back to item #1, if you grew up without a healthy frame of reference, you don't know what healthy reciprocal love is.  That may be the hardest part - accepting that we were caught in a repeated episode but lacked the awareness and skill to bail when the relationship didn't meet our needs for well-being, health, and safety.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Lala, Trying to rationalize what is inherently irrational is bound to be an exercise in futility.  Instead, I suggest you shift the focus to yourself and treat yourself with care and compassion.  Try putting yourself first, for a change.  Can you honestly say that you can love and accept yourself, just the way you are?  If you are like me, the answer is no.  Recovery, I suggest, involves learning to love oneself again so that one will never again be the object of someone's abuse.

LuckyJim

[Lalathegreat]

Thank you everyone! I know that I wasn't perfect but that I gave EVERYTHING that I had to give to this relationship. I KNOW that I never "took" that which I didn't feel I more than reciprocated. If anything, by the end, I could list MANY times that I showed up for HIM and at least as many times when he had an opportunity to do for me but did NOT. I KNOW that I never told him that he wasn't allowed to have friends. All these times he feels that I "chastised" (always the word he uses) him for trying to have other friends or outlets always boil down to one time when I was over and asked him to not play a video game with a friend while I was there (this would have been December I believe. He lost it, and as a result I have never asked him to not do it again (and he plays video games regularly now). But when we fight, he ALWAYS bring up that ONE incident), and during this last argument he told me that knowing my marriage broke up because I felt that my husband made me feel "alone" made him feel that he could NEVER give me anything but his full attention. So apparently another time when confiding in him during those early days when he felt like my "best friend" has come back to bite me. Whew! Run on sentence.

At the end of the day I love the idea of writing each of those statements down and really dissecting them from different points of view. I am a little frustrated that I seem to need that in order to trust what I already know, but if that's what I need right now than I'm going to do it!

Thank you everyone - it is a relief to not be alone in this, and to be reminded that these distortions are a product of HIM and HIS past - not me.