I am so angry

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Those of you who know my story with my ex married lover, will be aware of the rollercoaster ride I've been on. Four months ago I walked away as the relationship descended into a cycle of ST and withdrawal on my ex's part, whilst telling me I was driving her insane with my 'hostility.' I tried to stay strong and stick to the NC but then a suicide attempt was made by her. Out of compassion and love for her, I reinstated her on my FB and resumed contact.

I have been feeling terrible as she was treating me as a platonic friend rather than a lover. I asked her last week if she had any plans to come to London and she told me 'not to push.' I left it that. Meanwhile I had been very disciplined about not looking on her FB page and then yesterday, after four days of NC from her end, I cracked and looked at her page. I saw photos of her and then a post asking if anybody was going to the same music festival as her this weekend. That hurt like hell.

I asked her why she hadn't been talking to me. She responded by telling me that her life was effectively over and she was going to the festival with her daughter in order to find a reason to carry on living. I asked her why my love wasn't a reason to stay alive and she told me I was being hostile again. I replied that I wasn't being at all hostile but showing her how much I cared. I told her that she was hiding behind accusations of hostility as a way of avoiding talking about the r/s. I told her I loved her and if she didn't feel the same she should tell me. Silence.

I'm afraid the pain got the better of me and I unfriended her on FB. I told her I was finding it too difficult to pretend we are not lovers and felt completely worthless in her eyes. I just cannot be platonic friends with somebody I have so much passion for and I am feeling like I no longer want to be around myself. Seeing her photo causes me what feels like physical pain. I reminded her that less than a year ago we had shared two wonderful evenings together and that just a few months ago she had cried in my arms while watching a movie together. She told me to watch The Life Of A Courgette. I replied I was too depressed to watch anything.

I am going back to NC or this long goodbye is going to kill me. I don't say that lightly either. I believe she is stronger now than even a few weeks ago but I cannot keep seeing photos of her and posts about what she is doing. The jealousy is making me crazy. Not jealousy over a man, but of her spending time with everybody but me. I am now in despair and I cannot live like this. When she reconnected it was clear that she wanted a platonic friendship and I just cannot do it. I tried very hard to let her have whatever kind of r/s with me she needed but I want her too much in other ways. I really think the best thing for us both is to stay away from each other.

The saddest thing is that I told her that I felt like she hated me. She replied that 'nothing could be farther from the truth' - but the reality is that she doesn't want what I want. I can no longer live in the vain hope that we can have any kind of r/s. She has moved on away from what we had and there is no going back. I now have to resist any attempt by her to pull me back in just so she can feel less lonely when she doesn't want a real r/s. It is heartbreaking but now I must be stronger than ever. I did what I could for her mental health - now I have to be selfish and stay away from her for mine.

[RomanticFool]

Those of you who know my story with my ex married lover, will be aware of the rollercoaster ride I've been on. Four months ago I walked away as the relationship descended into a cycle of ST and withdrawal on my ex's part, whilst telling me I was driving her insane with my 'hostility.' I tried to stay strong and stick to the NC but then a suicide attempt was made by her. Out of compassion and love for her, I reinstated her on my FB and resumed contact.

I have been feeling terrible as she was treating me as a platonic friend rather than a lover. I asked her last week if she had any plans to come to London and she told me 'not to push.' I left it that. Meanwhile I had been very disciplined about not looking on her FB page and then yesterday, after four days of NC from her end, I cracked and looked at her page. I saw photos of her and then a post asking if anybody was going to the same music festival as her this weekend. That hurt like hell.

I asked her why she hadn't been talking to me. She responded by telling me that her life was effectively over and she was going to the festival with her daughter in order to find a reason to carry on living. I asked her why my love wasn't a reason to stay alive and she told me I was being hostile again. I replied that I wasn't being at all hostile but showing her how much I cared. I told her that she was hiding behind accusations of hostility as a way of avoiding talking about the r/s. I told her I loved her and if she didn't feel the same she should tell me. Silence.

I'm afraid the pain got the better of me and I unfriended her on FB. I told her I was finding it too difficult to pretend we are not lovers and felt completely worthless in her eyes. I just cannot be platonic friends with somebody I have so much passion for and I am feeling like I no longer want to be around myself. Seeing her photo causes me what feels like physical pain. I reminded her that less than a year ago we had shared two wonderful evenings together and that just a few months ago she had cried in my arms while watching a movie together. She told me to watch The Life Of A Courgette. I replied I was too depressed to watch anything.

I am going back to NC or this long goodbye is going to kill me. I don't say that lightly either. I believe she is stronger now than even a few weeks ago but I cannot keep seeing photos of her and posts about what she is doing. The jealousy is making me crazy. Not jealousy over a man, but of her spending time with everybody but me. I am now in despair and I cannot live like this. When she reconnected it was clear that she wanted a platonic friendship and I just cannot do it. I tried very hard to let her have whatever kind of r/s with me she needed but I want her too much in other ways. I really think the best thing for us both is to stay away from each other.

The saddest thing is that I told her that I felt like she hated me. She replied that 'nothing could be farther from the truth' - but the reality is that she doesn't want what I want. I can no longer live in the vain hope that we can have any kind of r/s. She has moved on away from what we had and there is no going back. I now have to resist any attempt by her to pull me back in just so she can feel less lonely when she doesn't want a real r/s. It is heartbreaking but now I must be stronger than ever. I did what I could for her mental health - now I have to be selfish and stay away from her for mine.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi RF,

I'm sorry to see you back here.  You've really had a rough time and I can feel your pain at reaching this point. 

I just cannot be platonic friends with somebody I have so much passion for and I am feeling like I no longer want to be around myself.

I worry about you feeling so low, yet feel optimistic at least in hearing you mean to prioritise your own well being.  You're clearly feeling very raw at the moment.
 Perhaps a little distance from the r/s will help you to decide what would be the best course of action in achieving that well being.  Does she know you mean to go NC?  How did the conversation end?  Please keep the posts coming so we can stay in touch with you and help you through.  We care about you.

Love and light x     

[Mutt]

Hi Romantic Fool,

I completely agree with NC and working on detaching, you don't want to be friend zoned if you have romantic feelings for her. It doesn't like the r/s is unfair and that she's using you at the moment, if you provide emotional support like a bf would but she's romantic with someone else, stick up for yourself and don't be treated that way.

Do what it takes to help you detach, block her on social media, don't peek on social media, store old photos and knick knacks, etc... .Shift the focus away from her and focus on you, what do you for self care? Me, I exercise everyday, I have a routine at home and I go the gym when I don't have the kids, I like going for long my walks for cardio, I like movies, reading, video games.

What do you for self care? What are your hobbies? Do you see a T?

[RomanticFool]

Hi Harley Quinn,

I'm sorry to see you back here.  You've really had a rough time and I can feel your pain at reaching this point.

I worry about you feeling so low, yet feel optimistic at least in hearing you mean to prioritise your own well being.  You're clearly feeling very raw at the moment.

Perhaps a little distance from the r/s will help you to decide what would be the best course of action in achieving that well being.  :)oes she know you mean to go NC?  How did the conversation end?  

I have indeed been on an emotional rollercoaster. For the last few weeks I have been putting my ex's wellbeing before my own and it has taken its toll on me. She just doesn't understand (or care) about the effect this situation has had on me. She is too focussed on her own pain. She won't even acknowledge that I have been suffering too. I had to cut her off FB today for my own sanity. FB is really the only thing she cares about regarding me and I was not surprised by her response: 'You have cut me off your friends list for the last time.' Dealing with somebody who won't talk to me and yet has free access to my life has really taken its toll on me. I wish I was stronger. I don't actually want to her cut her off. She thinks I'm doing it out of malice. I'm doing it to save myself heartache. I used to think myself it was a control mechanism, but I don't think it has ever been that. It is actually a coping mechanism.

I told her that I will talk to her on WhatsApp but seeing her photos on FB was literally driving me nuts. The problem is that she just has no interest in my feelings. It has been suggested to me by others on here that it is not incumbent on an affair partner to provide emotional support, but I have always disagreed with that assertion. I have been like a private confidante to her over much of our r/s.

When I first came onto these boards, I wanted this r/s over. It had taken me to a very low ebb but I just knew I didn't have the strength to do it on my own. Then through feedback I realised how much of my behaviour had inflamed the situation and that I wasn't handling my ex in an empathic way. The problem keeps coming back to the same issue: We do not want the same kind of r/s. She did at one time, but that was quite a long time ago now. I think she has always been conflicted about the affair, most notably the level of passion I have for her and how I express it. She doesn't like me holding her to any kind of commitment and wants the freedom to dip in and out of the r/s as she pleases. I have always held onto the passion from when the r/s was at its height and her own interest in me has been dwindling. Her depression tells her that her life is over and she has nothing left to live for. Perhaps before I walked away, my presence in her life at least kept her from trying to do away with herself, but the closeness has been declining steadily over a long period of time.

It is complicated and I'm trying to be as fair to her as I can with my post here, but it seems to me what she really needs is a no commitment friendship that she can use as support when she needs it without the pain of emotional entanglement. I can now see that she no longer wants a sexual r/s. That just does not work for me. It is hell to see her photos on FB and read about what she is up to without seeing her. I have had to once again be true to myself. I hope this doesn't push her over the edge again. I know she is going to a festival this weekend with her daughter but I am bracing myself from the fallout of the next few weeks. Hopefully she is now done with me but history suggests not.

[RomanticFool]

Hi Mutt,

I completely agree with NC and working on detaching, you don't want to be friend zoned if you have romantic feelings for her. It doesn't like the r/s is unfair and that she's using you at the moment, if you provide emotional support like a bf would but she's romantic with someone else, stick up for yourself and don't be treated that way.

This has been the situation for a while now. When we reconnected after her suicide attempt, despite the fact I was being compassionate by reinstating her on FB, she told me that I needed to regain her trust before she would open herself to me. It was suggested to me on here that she was setting a term that would have a never ending expiry period.

She wants me there but does not want the emotional entanglement of a r/s. My way of communicating with her seems to trigger her own depression and therefore she is keeping her distance from me. The problem is that she has no regard at all for the effect trying to conduct a platonic r/s has on myself when I am crazy about her. I had to put down a boundary today and cut her off FB again. I don't like doing it because she always reads it as aggression but I am at a very low ebb.

Do what it takes to help you detach, block her on social media, don't peek on social media, store old photos and knick knacks, etc... .Shift the focus away from her and focus on you, what do you for self care? Me, I exercise everyday, I have a routine at home and I go the gym when I don't have the kids, I like going for long my walks for cardio, I like movies, reading, video games.

I have cut her off FB but I am worried because the last time I tried to maintain NC she made a suicide attempt and blamed it on me. This time I told her that I was not turning my back on her and if she wants to talk to me I will be available on WhatsApp. Her reply was: 'You have cut me off FB for the last time.'

I play piano and exercise quite a bit. I watch movies and at the moment am engaged in some time consuming work. Even with the distraction of my very busy job, I was still feeling terrible the last few days.

What do you for self care? What are your hobbies? Do you see a T?

I go to AA meetings and have telephone and face to face contact with fellow members. However, the ones who know about my ex have all become bored/incredulous at the on/off nature of the saga. Trying to detach from a woman I am crazy about and really would love to be with while listening to her accusations of aggression and refusals to have a conversation, let alone meet, fully test any self care mechanisms I have in place. I don't have a T but should probably get one.

[Insom]

The way you write about how you feel reminds me of how I felt when I was separating from my BPD-ex:  self-aware enough to understand the relationship wasn't a healthy one but almost helplessly addicted.

Your anger is a good thing, I think.  Anger, for me, was the fuel I used to change my life and get away from my BPD-ex.  Without it I'd I'm afraid I'd have remained hopelessly, helplessly stuck.  Use it.  You don't have to hate her.  Use the anger to create some strong boundaries.  Once you've achieved that it may be possible to gain a different perspective on her, how you feel about her and what you want in life (what is possible for you relationship-wise).   

[Grey Kitty]

When she reconnected it was clear that she wanted a platonic friendship and I just cannot do it. I tried very hard to let her have whatever kind of r/s with me she needed but I want her too much in other ways.

Good for you that you TRIED to do this. Even though it was really hard and really hurt.

And also good for you that you figured out that you just can't, no matter how hard you try.

Now you know you CAN'T be in a platonic r/s with her. And you know that she wants exactly that, and can't do more.

It is very sad... .but also appears irreconcilable.

I really think the best thing for us both is to stay away from each other.

You may be right... .but that isn't for you to decide.

You can and should decide what is best for you. (i.e. staying away from her!)

Not so as for what is best for her. Yes, you've known her for 14 years, so you know her well, and are in a position to see what is good/bad for her... .but that choice is hers, not yours.

You can go NC with her to protect yourself from the heartbreak you experience with this kind of contact.

If you make going NC conditional on her agreeing to it, that isn't going to go well for you. I guarantee she will reach out to you, perhaps with something yanking at your heart like a suicide attempt again... .and you will go through ANOTHER round of this.

If you want NC to 'work', you have to do it to save yourself, regardless of what she wants or needs, thinks she wants or needs, or even what you think she wants or needs.

[Skip]

I have cut her off FB but I am worried because the last time I tried to maintain NC she made a suicide attempt and blamed it on me. This time I told her that I was not turning my back on her and if she wants to talk to me I will be available on WhatsApp.

How to I say this in a constructive, mature way? How about... .to any UK member who has friended and unfriended, and re-friended and re-unfriend and re-re-friended partner in the the last 4 weeks... .but is worried that it might not be a good idea... .to all of you... .


Date: June 2015Minutes: 0:49
The Slap

Don't think the cat has a FB page, but it sassed me.

RF, you need to re-friend her and then have your mom change your password and lock you out of your own Facebook page for 10 weeks. Seriously, if you want a moderator to help, we will. Blocking here is more self defeating than DJT on tweeter.

You consistently self sabotage. You sabotage reconnecting with her. You sabotage detaching and going no contact. Why?

Don't let her BPD traits blind you to your own emotional maturity.

She has long wanted to have a less "intensive" affair.
You have long refused that and used every push / pull tactic you could to drive her step up the intensity.
She has said you are a bully (abusive) and it upsets her.
You continue to push / pull tactics.
She pulls away.
You want more.
You intensify the push pull tactics.
She pulls away.
You want more.
You intensify the push pull tactics.
Each round make the recovery of this relationship more unlikely.

When the members call you out, you see it and agree. A few days later you are back at it.

You are still communicating with her, but posting on Detaching to get validating for "the push".

Tough love, I know, but I hate to see anyone stick there finger in an electric socket every day.

Here is construct to consider.

I love my gf, but she feels engulfed and wants me to back way off. Because I love her and I am a strong man, I  know when it is time to yield. I know it's important that she feel heard and respected so I back off and let her set the tempo. In order to maintain her respect for me, I embrace this with strength and dignity - no pouting, catastrophizing , no neediness. I make the best of it.  Even though it is a stage of limbo and it might not get better and that is very upsetting to me, I'm strong enough not to lose my cool, and I'm strong enough to let it play out for 90 days or so. I will make all the reasonable changes she has asked for, I will apologize without expecting something in return and I will understand that it will take time for her to believe these changes are real. At then end of 90 days, I will reassess. I've know her for 14 years, I certainly can invest myself fully in this change and see how she responds to it.  I will use my support community to center me and help me with my communications... .rather than wing it emotionally and ask for critique and validation after the fact.

I'm not telling you what to do, RF. I'm just painting a picture if how a some men who understand the eccentricities of relationships might show both confidence and benevolence in a difficult time. Men are expected to be emotionally strong.

One man to other.  

[RomanticFool]

Hi Insom,

The way you write about how you feel reminds me of how I felt when I was separating from my BPD-ex:  self-aware enough to understand the relationship wasn't a healthy one but almost helplessly addicted.

That is exactly how I feel. I know it has been tearing me apart for years - and yet I still crave my fix of her.

Your anger is a good thing, I think.  Anger, for me, was the fuel I used to change my life and get away from my BPD-ex.  Without it I'd I'm afraid I'd have remained hopelessly, helplessly stuck.  Use it.  You don't have to hate her.  Use the anger to create some strong boundaries.  Once you've achieved that it may be possible to gain a different perspective on her, how you feel about her and what you want in life (what is possible for you relationship-wise).

I felt really angry yesterday because the narrative she told me is that she was recently under sedation - and now she is going to a rock festival. I have always had the feeling that this woman is leading me up the garden path. I can never prove it but the feeling lingers. However, I took her suicide attempt seriously and she told me she was going to the festival to decide whether she can find something worth living for. This upset me no end as I have constantly offered my love and not so long ago she told me it was the only thing keeping her going. I do think she has manipulated me all the way along - suicide attempt or not.

Today I am not angry and I took the decision to cut her off FB out of self love rather than anger. I cannot allow this woman to hold this kind of power over my emotions. She kind of emotionally blackmailed me into reinstating her on FB and instantly putting me on endless probation ie I had to regain her trust in order for her to open up to me again. I was doing it out of compassion. It's not that I no longer feel compassion but I think I now need to do what I know is best for me, rather than what I think is best for her. I look on the FB issue as a boundary ie she cannot have free access to my FB without engaging in dialogue with me at least. Of course she will now cut me off - until she wants to blame me for something else probably. What a nightmare of a situation. Despite her mental health issues, her emotional vulnerability and her assertion that her 'life is over', I still feel she is manipulating me all the way. Her take on it is that she has to keep away from me because I am hostile and aggressive towards her and upset her emotional state. However, since her suicide attempt I have been more careful of how I say things. What i have discovered is that any time I talk about my own feelings or the r/s, I am being hostile or pushy. It has become a no win situation because she no longer values the r/s in the way she once does. What she does value is having access to my FB. I didn't deny her that out of malice but because it was hurting me intensely to see her photos while not speaking to me. I cannot allow that situation to continue.

[RomanticFool]

Skip,

The friending and defriending business has been going on for years. This isn't a new phenomenon between us. I know it is dysfunctional but I felt in this instance that she had gone back on our agreement which was if I reinstate her on FB we would have meaningful conversations. She didn't talk to me for 4 days. I just find that behaviour intolerable. That is a slap in the face to me too.

You consistently self sabotage. You sabotage reconnecting with her. You sabotage detaching and going no contact. Why?

Because I can bear the pain for a few days and then it becomes unbearable and makes me confront her. I find it intolerable that she has access to my FB and yet refuses to engage in meaningful conversation. She is a terrible hypocrite. She has given me so much crap for going to Vegas for my birthday to a festival and what do I see on her FB page? That she is going to a festival this weekend with her daughter. Perhaps I am sabotaging reconnecting because I know deep down it is killing my spirit and ruining my life.

I wasn't the one who sabotaged the NC. She did. Several times culminating in a suicide attempt. I had to talk to her after that. Otherwise I would now be 4 months of NC. Ok, I could have cut her off WhatsApp initially but I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Don't let her BPD traits blind you to your own emotional maturity.

My emotions feel addictive to me. I can tolerate something for a few days and then get a very strong urge to take action. A sense of injustice fuels my reactions. A feeling that I'm being manipulated by her also fuels it. My head tells me, 'Why should I allow her access to my FB, possibly to spy on my wife, when she has told me that I am hostile and have to regain her trust?' I walked away from the r/s because it was so dysfunctional I could no longer cope emotionally.

She has long wanted to have a less "intensive" affair.
You have long refused that and used every push / pull tactic you could to drive her step up the intensity.
She has said you are a bully (abusive) and it upsets her.
You continue to push / pull tactics.
She pulls away.
You want more.
You intensify the push pull tactics.
She pulls away.
You want more.
You intensify the push pull tactics.
Each round make the recovery of this relationship more unlikely.

I told her yesterday that I cannot do platonic love. I'm not really trying to drive up the intensity so much as get her to converse with me. How can I have a r/s with somebody who won't talk to me? What I have discovered with her is any time I talk about the r/s or my feelings, she calls me hostile. I cannot win on that score. I believe she is using that as an excuse to keep away from me. So I am setting a boundary.

I think the push/pull thing going is as much coming from her direction as mine. I liken her to a mouse. She pokes her head out of her little mouse hole and all I have to do is say 'hello' and she runs back in. I don't believe she has any intention of ever seeing me again - so given that, why should I put myself through the hell of having to see her life all over FB when I am excluded from it? A sense of injustice and hurt is fuelling everything.

This r/s is dead. Yesterday I described it as the long goodbye and it is heartbreaking to see her slipping away right in front of me. So I sabotage the reconnection to speed it up. There is no coming back from where we are. The only issue is whether I allow her to make a friend out of me.

When the members call you out, you see it and agree. A few days later you are back at it.

That is the nature of my own emotional life. I am very up and down where she is concerned. Every time I take a course of action I feel committed to it. Then things change. Just as many members agree with my actions as question them. I'm often confused about what the best course of action to take is. On this thread many people promote self love. You favour empathy. I wish I could do both but I am in such pain over this woman I can hardly think straight half the time. It's all emotional impulse.

You are still communicating with her, but posting on Detaching to get validating for "the push".

I went through 3 months of trying my damndest to remain NC. It became LC when she kept contacting me. If you remember I kept posting about whether I should cut her off WhatsApp. I tried very hard to detach from this r/s. Every time she contacted me, I reiterated the reasons for walking away. Then came the suicide attempt. It is now even harder to countenance NC because I am terrified of what she might do again. You know the truth? I wish she would leave me the hell alone - but she won't. It's not so much validation for the push. It's trying to deal with my grief. Every time a new action is taken we are back to square one with the pain.

I just reconnected her again to FB, which she will probably now refuse. If you think I am posting on here just to get validation to take a course of action you are mistaken. I post on here because I am in so much pain from any action I take and any reaction she makes to it. Pain rules my life. Not manipulation or revenge. Pain. I want it to stop. Now you know.

Tough love, I know, but I hate to see anyone stick there finger in an electric socket every day.

That is exactly how I feel. Perhaps I have BPD traits myself because I am ruled by my emotions.

I love my gf, but she feels engulfed and wants me to back way off. Because I love her and I am a strong man, I  know its when it is time to yield. I know its important that she feel heard and respected so I back off and let her set the tempo. In order to maintain her respect for me, I do this with strength and dignity - no pouting, catastrophizing , no neediness. Even though it is a stage of limbo and it might not get better and that is very upsetting to me, I'm strong enough not to lose my cool and strong let it play out for 90 days or so. I will make the reasonable changes she has asked for and I will understand that it will take time for her to believe these changes are real. At then end of 90 days, I will reassess. I've know her for 14 years, I certainly can invest myself fully in this change and see how she responds to it.  I will use my support community to center me and help me with my communications... .rather than wing it emotionally and ask for validation after the fact.

I don't think I am as strong as you think I am. The last few years have taken a huge toll on my mental health. I think the problem is that I now understand why this r/s is no good for me. Even if I did all of the above. Even if by some miracle she felt safe enough to meet up with me again - the whole catastrophe would happen again. We were in a wonderful place when she decided to start drinking again - in response to her brother dying. The fallout from that lasted a whole year. We were in a wonderful place when she decided not to talk to me for 3 days because she was away with her daughter. It is the same old nonsense time and again with her.

You know yourself that she doesn't want the type of r/s I do. Knowing that very fact makes me angry at her. As much as I want her, I don't want this dip in/dip out r/s that she does. It is a living nightmare. It's kind of gone beyond the r/s now and we are into the realms of me allowing her to control everything: The terms of being reconnected to FB, when we talk (if we talk), if we meet (which is not on the cards), jumping through her hoops ie I have to prove trustworthy again. I have never been untrustworthy. She knows that. I feel manipulated by her at every turn. That is why I react as I do.

I'm just painting a picture if how a some men who understand the eccentricities of relationships would show both confidence and benevolence.

You know what? I aspire to this. I don't think I have the kind of emotional life to make this happen. I would have to have the patience, tolerance and forgiveness of a saint to allow her behaviours to continue. I am certainly not a saint.

I think I just want out of the r/s - however much I love her. I don't want her to hurt herself again. I really hope she is ok but the truth is, she is taking me down with her.




 

[OptimusRhyme]

Skip,


I went through 3 months of trying my damndest to remain NC. It became LC when she kept contacting me. If you remember I kept posting about whether I should cut her off WhatsApp. I tried very hard to detach from this r/s. Every time she contacted me, I reiterated the reasons for walking away. Then came the suicide attempt. It is now even harder to countenance NC because I am terrified of what she might do again. You know the truth? I wish she would leave me the hell alone - but she won't. It's not so much validation for the push. It's trying to deal with my grief. Every time a new action is taken we are back to square one with the pain.

I think I just want out of the r/s - however much I love her. I don't want her to hurt herself again. I really hope she is ok but the truth is, she is taking me down with her.

So, I mean no disrespect here,  nor do I want to dilute or hijack skip's message. It sounds like you are actively choosing to give away your power in this situation. NC, at least to me, is not about hoping that the circumstances and factors outside your control fall in a convenient way to minimize your pain (eg, she doesn't contact you, etc). It's is precisely realizing that you have the power to say, "come what may, I am going to love and take care of myself, because that is all I can control, and therefore healthily look after."

To hear your history, you have bent over backwards to explain your position and decision making to her, you have tried different approaches, techniques, mindsets, etc etc. All have produced the same result. Her suicide threats are not qualitatively different from all of her other emotional blackmail, just to a more dramatic degree. And as awful as this may sound, just like any other choice she can make, you are not in control, nor responsible for her choosing to live or not. Your actions have not seemed, to this point, to have any influence on  her behavioral output; they won't in this instance, either.

Only you have the power to decide how you will respond to whatever she may do to you. If you want to detach, endeavor to do so,  exactly by realizing that detachment is breaking the causal relationship between what she does, and what you think you therefore should do.

I hope she's okay, too. But you are powerless over her, so save yourself.   

[Skip]

I know it is dysfunctional but... .
Because I can bear the pain for a few days and then it becomes unbearable and makes me...
I wasn't the one who sabotaged the NC. Otherwise I would now be 4 months of NC.
My emotions feel addictive to me. I can tolerate something for a few days and then get a very strong urge to take action. A sense of injustice fuels my reactions... .
A feeling that I'm being manipulated by her also fuels it... .
I believe she is using that as an excuse to keep away from me. So I am setting a boundary... .
I think the push/pull thing going is as much coming from her direction as mine... .
A sense of injustice and hurt is fuelling everything.
This r/s is dead.  I sabotage the reconnection to speed it up... .
That is the nature of my own emotional life. I am very up and down... .
Just as many members agree with my actions as question them... .
I'm often confused about what the best course of action to take is... .
I tried very hard to detach from this r/s. Every time she contacted me... .
I am terrified of what she might do again. You know the truth? I wish she would leave me the hell alone - but she won't... .
It's not so much validation for the push. It's trying to deal with my grief. Every time a new action is taken we are back to square one with the pain... .
Pain rules my life... .

Read this list, RF. Its says, I'm out of control.

I have BPD traits myself because I am ruled by my emotions.

The "why" doesn't matter, RF, if you were on a DBT board, they would be telling you that it is toxic to run a relationship by emotions and dysfunctional coping. They would say intercept those emotions and modulate them. You have a support group that will help you.

I'm often confused about what the best course of action to take is. On this thread many people promote self love. You favour empathy. I wish I could do both but I am in such pain over this woman I can hardly think straight half the time. It's all emotional impulse.

These things are not at all mutually exclusive. Self love is not indulging bad habits, its about treating yourself in a caring way... .don't shame yourself, don't put yourself down. Empathy is about understanding the other person - its not agreeing with them or saying they are right - its just understanding them. Imagine going in to get your car fixed and you think the engine is really a rabbit running in a wheel - how are you going to make a good decision on a repair if you think the problem is a shortage of carrots.

I don't think I am as strong as you think I am.

I think you are not as weak as you think you are.

You can be that man. Rewrite that paragraph in your own words and past it on your mirror. Commit to be that man for 90 days. You can do it. Before you interface with her, pause, post the situation here, ask member to help you modulate with the goal of not making matters worse, and then take mature actions.

When the impulsive mania stops and the patient, tolerant and forgiving saint man step up... .

You will like that guy. You will like you. She will like you.

I'm not saying this will fix your marriage or fix your affair, but it will get you to stop chasing you tail and get you on a road to better emotional health.

I know this is hard. Good mental health is hard. If often boils down to times like this. Do you choose emotional indulgence or good mental health? You can't be on the fence.

 

[onelittleladybug]

Hi RF

Im so sorry youre feeling this badly. Im glad you reached out here.

I dont have a whole lot to add to the amazing advice youve already received in this thread. I just wanted to add some support and give some practical advice. First of all, I said to you recently that I didnt think it was good for you to go NC given the circumstances but slipping into depression justifies NC. FWIW.

Secondly when it comes to FB unfriending I do agree with Skip. Ive blocked my pwBPD a few times when he was raging which will (unfortunately) automatically unfriend us and it hurt him deeply. I didnt understand why it mattered so much but its symbolic and being linked on FB has a much deeper meaning for him than for me. Ive since learned about a few things you can do without unfriending:

- Unfollow the person. This means you wont see their updates.
- Post to limited audience. You can actually set a default setting which will limit the people who see your posts.
- Mute on FB messenger. The person can send you messages but you only see them when you look up the conversation.
- You can also appear offline by a setting in messenger.

If you do a few of those things and then manage to control the urge of checking up on them you can remain linked on FB without them knowing what you are up to.

Also one more thing: Many of my friends take a break from FB on a regular basis. Kind of a social media fasting. They will make a statement and then close their account the day after. When they are ready to come back everything is still there. Nothing is deleted. Ive tried it and I loved it. My family in the old country reacted pretty harshly though, if it werent for that I would do this on a regular basis. I highly recommend it.

[RomanticFool]

So on Friday, I reconnected her to FB after she said, 'You have cut me off for the last time.' She accepted the reconnection and I have heard nothing since then. She has been at a music festival over the weekend.

The way I am feeling at the moment is that I should just have stuck to the NC. I don't see any point in having her on FB when she isn't talking to me. I feel angry and fed up with the whole situation. Even if we were to meet up again, I don't think there would be much affection going on.

She has clearly decided that she does not want romantic involvement with me. Whatever the pros and cons of cutting her off and then reinstating her are, I kept doing it to try and save myself from the agony of seeing what she is up to.

It is awful being so obsessed with another human being. I have had some respite since the detachment over four months ago. But really I believe keeping her on FB is just prolonging the agony. What am I really getting out of this apart from more suffering?

Yes, I care about what happens to her but she has clearly decided that we are no longer romantically involved. This is because I walked away as I was fed up with how she was treating me ie silences and blocking me on her phone. No normal person treats another human being like that. It is bullsh*t. I am not really the kind of person who can wait 3 months for a person to decide that she wants to contact me again. I want an end to the constant yearning I feel. That can only come with NC.

This situation is making me angry. She has me exactly where she has always wanted me. She has access to my FB and doesn't contact me outside of that. She seems to need to spy on me on FB. That is manipulative in my view. I am not cut out to deal with a pwBPD. Usually if a person does not talk to me then I vote with my feet ie I walk away. This whole situation has run its course. I think we both know it. So why am I allowing her to stay on FB? It seems ludicrous to me.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi RF,

You're going through such internal turmoil.  Are you receiving any therapy at all?  Sometimes we need to lean on someone outside of ourselves to help us come up with the answers. 

This situation is making me angry. She has me exactly where she has always wanted me.

A decision needs to be made here RF.  I have a question for you.  Where do YOU want yourself to be?  Just think about emotionally for the moment.  Not just right now, but in another year for example?  Would you like to still be in a place of turmoil?  Here's a technique you might try.  Once you've established what you would like your emotional life to look like (YOURS - not anybody else's as we can only control ourselves), take a look in the mirror.  When you see the man facing you, imagine it is future you on a parallel world, who has achieved these things for himself.  Then ask him what he did to get there.  What choices did he make, what changes?  Hopefully you'll find what lies within.  The voice that is trying to guide you.  Listen to it.

Love and light x 

[RomanticFool]

Hi Harley Quinn,

I'm caught in a mobius strip ie a vicious circle. I want to be in contact with her because of the hope of rekindling the r/s. She wants a platonic r/s and access to my FB. I don't want her to just have access to FB without rekindling our r/s. So it goes...
round and round.

The ideal for her would be for me to be totally focussed on her issues without any commitment to seeing me. Perhaps she might meet if she feels she has punished me enough for walking away. The ideal for me would be to see her again with regular contact but that is not going to happen. We have been too distant for too long and she views me as hostile.

For my own peace of mind I should cut her off and try to heal. I am following advice I was given on here not to cut her off FB and to remain in contact for 90 days and develop my empathy towards her. My problem with that suggestion is that there is no r/s to salvage. I am following the advice so as not to antagonise the situation. However, she may never contact me again, or she may when she feels lonely. I just don't know.

I have accepted that every time I cut her off it is like a slap in the face to her. However, while I am busy focusing on what us good for her, I am left feeling emotionally unstable. I am going to try 90 days of having her on FB and see if anything improves. At the moment I feel like I don't even like this person... but if I'm honest, I don't want her out of my life.

In a year's time, I hope I am free of my obsession.

[Emotions]

If you go NC and take that time to push yourself mentally (control your thoughts as much as possible), physically (exercise everyday, eat extremely healthy but sufficiently, and sleep as much as possible), essentially train your mind and body and self to become to best romantic fool you can be, you will get a different perspective other than the obsession you seem to write about... .if you do that for a month or two, you will go back on these posts and have a different perspective, and even shock yourself with how you are feeling at the moment... .control your self and mind will give you peace of mind you need, and although it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT, it is possible and well worth the trouble... .I still think of my ex everyday, but not with the same desires I once had, I don't feel like we own each other's actions anymore and it is a good feeling... .I hope you find the same in time, have faith in yourself

[Skip]

RF, its good that you are discussing this before taking action. It's also good that you have a realistic understanding of the dynamic between you two, and want to avoid self-defeating responses.  

She has me exactly where she has always wanted me. She has access to my FB and doesn't contact me outside of that. She seems to need to spy on me on FB. That is manipulative... .

She hasn't taken anything from you.    Try not to think of Facebook as a currency to barter. Giving it and taking it away over an over doesn't help - it hasn't helped. Just leave it alone for now. If it really bother you, don't log into FB for a few weeks.  

It might be real help to see a pdoc and get anti-anxiety meds to slow your panic down. Remember, its not like she is single and lonely and needs to find another relationship - she has a husband, a child, and a full life - and can't keep up with the demands of the affair. Time, more than most, is on your side.

Let this thing cool down. Wait for her to contact you.Think of it like sobriety - how many days can you go without making demands, creating guilt, over pursuing, withdrawing.

[RomanticFool]

RF, its good that you are discussing this before taking action. It's also good that you have a realistic understanding of the dynamic between you two, and want to avoid self-defeating responses.  :)oing the right thing

I will do it for 90 days and see how I feel at the end of that time period. I have a constant yearning for her and desire to contact her. When does that go? I've had it on and off for 14 years.

She hasn't taken anything from you.

What about my peace of mind? My romantic idealism? My commitment to her? My loyalty? My soul? My passion? My hope of real love? All of these things she has taken from me over a period of years. This is the problem. I feel that I need her for all of the above. I am not going to look outside of my marriage again. This is the sense of loss I feel.

Try not to think of Facebook as a currency to barter. Giving it and taking it away over an over doesn't help - it hasn't helped. Just leave it alone for now. If it really bother you, don't log into FB for a few weeks.

I feel like she is 'spying' on me without any sense of commitment to me. I find it intolerable. I haven't looked at her FB page since Friday and I won't. That is the only way I can do this.

It might be real help to see a pdoc and get anti-anxiety meds to slow your panic down

It isn't panic, it is more like compulsion followed by anger if I contact her and get no response.

Remember, its not like she is single and lonely and needs to find another relationship

She has a history of looking outside of her marriage. Unfortunately, I don't know much about that history other than what she has told me in the distant past. What I do know for certain is that she was at a gig a year ago with another man who she claimed was a friend. I don't believe her. I don't trust her totally, which is partly why I walked away.

she has a husband, a child, and a full life

Her 3 children are grown up. The one who lives at home has addiction issues around alcohol and gambling and he is also autistic. He can get violent. She always tells me that she feels bored and lonely and that her life is over. She works with her husband but she says she wants to disband the business. She goes to AA and works for a well known suicide prevention charity. She constantly tells me that she rarely goes out. Again, I don't know if I believe her.

and can't keep up with the demands of the affair.

This has changed constantly throughout our affair. In the beginning of this current recycle (ie 5 years ago) she was all over me and the way I behaved towards her was never an issue. She used to just call me 'challenging.' She stopped the distancing which she did first time round and we texted on a daily basis and spoke a couple of times a week. One time she begged me to call her in Las Vegas (from the UK) when she was missing me. This I gladly did.

Over a long period of time she gradually began to start the distancing and characterising me as aggressive, hostile and a bully. Eventually she started drinking again after her brother died. When this happened we were on good terms and she never blamed me. However, during that year's drinking she started abusing me. Often saying that I had driven her to drink with my aggression and hostility. It was like she had become a different person.

Even once she sobered up, that narrative became her truth. It became a self fulfilling prophecy, the more she accused me of hostility, the more hostile I became. The truth resides in her statement immediately after she sobered up. I asked her why she demonised me for a year and she replied: 'You always hurt those you love.'

Since I walked away, she has pressed the self destruction button, all the while denying me any dialogue or apparent importance in her life. She says I have to 'earn back' her trust. But I walked away because of her hostile behaviour towards me. Catch 22. Vicious circle. It will actually be interesting to see if she comes around by me being more gentle/indifferent towards her. However, the reason i cut her off the last time (and just to clarify we are currently connected and I won't be cutting her off) was because 2 weeks ago we were getting on really well and then suddenly I didn't hear from her for 4 days. That annoyed me. That is why I think the r/s is over. I am never going to tolerate that from the woman I love. It is not how a r/s should be conducted.

Time, more than most, is on your side.

I don't understand what you mean.

Let this thing cool down. Wait for her to contact you

That is what I am doing.

Think of it like sobriety - how many days can you go without making demands, creating guilt, over pursuing, withdrawing.

This is what I refer to as acting out. The problem is, that with the booze you can put it down and deal with the triggers over time. In this situation the trigger is constantly there. It's like I am living in active addiction.