Hi New here, suspect partner is uBPD

[starfox]

Hi all,
I found this forum yesterday and it has been like getting a pair of glasses with the right prescription and suddenly everything is in clear focus.  I have been trying to absorb and learn as much as I can and hope this can be a helpful outlet for feelings and place of mutual support. Sorry this is so long but I haven't been able to express any of this to ANYONE.

I live with my partner who I believe now is uBPD or at least has a lot of really strong tendencies (dating 9 months, living together 5, friends for a couple years before). When it's good, it's the best relationship I have ever had and when it's bad, it's the most confounding. Both extremes.

We have been in couples counseling for about 2 months. Our counselor was my partner's counselor first, and then we mutually agreed to start seeing her together. I had a session alone with her last week so she could get to know me and my background better. One thing she said that struck me was that my partner is often very much in their own world of emotion and gets heightened very easily and it can be difficult to reach through. She wanted to emphasize that I am not responsible for my partner's feelings, which is something I know intellectually but I do always get defensive and want to soothe my partner, and my counselor noticed thus and said it's not going to help my partner learn how to cope with their emotions on their own. I agreed and have been trying to stay mindful of this dynamic.

This week in our couples session she suggested we get the book The High-Conflict Couple, which I ordered 2 copies of the next day for us to read together. Upon reading the reviews, I noticed that it was recommended by a lot of people for relating with someone who has BPD. Curious, I started to read about BPD and recognized my partner immediately.

I found this forum shortly after and also recognized a lot of the advice being given here in a lot of what our counselor has advised us to try.
Whether my partner is actually BPD or not, I feel a lot of this advice on here can only help our relationship.

A tiny snapshot into some of our relationship dynamic…

My partner will often bring up something they are upset about without any seeming provocation or warning, and act like I should have already realized or known what it was that was upsetting them.

I am often blamed for the way they are feeling, using something I said or did as a justification for an incessant tirade of repetitive circular comments about it that sometimes borderline on verbally abusive that won't end no matter what is said or how I try to convey my hearing them. ("Well I wouldn't be feeling and acting this way if you hadn't said/done that so this is completely justified“ "Your behavior yesterday was vile and disgusting and I absolutely won’t tolerate it“ and my favorite, "There's no room for that" when I try to explain my perspective before they have felt sufficiently heard on their point, no matter how flawed their logic is around it). Ironically I am often told I am emotionally abusive but it is usually when I am saying something they don't want to hear.

They also frequently find criticism, attacks, or slights where absolutely none were intended. I’m trying to think of some good examples for this but it happens a lot. They often feel like they are being attacked.

My partner often has extreme reactions to small problems. The other night we were at our favorite bar and we got a plate of food that had a piece of gum stuck under the outside rim that the dishwasher missed. I was a little bit grossed out but continued to enjoy my food; my partner's reaction was "People who do that should be taken out to the street and shot." When I expressed concern at the severity of this reaction, it was taken as me attacking them.

There was an instance when we were in a rough spot for a couple of days and I stayed home sick from work in bed. An old friend of the opposite sex (same sex as my partner) who happened to be in town reached out to me and I agreed to meet with them to catch up and get a snack. The old friend came over to our house first. I was making the bed after finally getting up at noon, and my partner came home from work early, saw my old friend, saw me making the bed, and in their mind immediately assumed that I was cheating but didn't say anything to me. Old friend and I invited my partner to get a snack with us but they declined. I left my phone home and came back to a handwritten note and several facebook messages saying we needed to talk immediately and what happened better not be what they think had happened. I spent the next two hours trying to soothe my partner and reassure them nothing had happened and that such a thing would never even cross my mind as an option, instead of spending time with my friend who lives all the way across the country and just happened to be in my city for that one afternoon.

My partner often brings up things that I’ve said or done in the past that they have found hurtful, attacking, wrong, mean, etc. These things often get brought up in the midst of a current fight, to re-enforce all the ways they think I’m the one creating problems in our relationship and establish an overlying pattern in which I’m supposed to take all responsibility for our disconnects. I don’t like having supposedly resolved instances brought up in current fights, which is a boundary I have attempted to establish with mixed results. I tend to JADE a lot in our disagreements, which I have decided to consciously stop doing immediately.

There’s so so so much more I can say, but I will say reading about a lot of this on this forum has really shined a light on a dark puzzling thing and helped me a lot already. I also want to take responsibility for the things that are mine in this relationship that do not help. I have plenty of my own baggage/issues/whatever that contribute to this and have been actively committed on working on it. Relationship aside, I have tended towards lower self-esteem, and tend to be extremely self-critical and never feel good enough. I also have some issues around trust/abandonment, which is something I can relate to with my partner (rejection/abandonment are THE WORST THING for them), but also something I have learned to manage on my own a lot better through about 10 years of therapy.

This week we got in a huge fight that I definitely contributed to. When I tried to JADE my side of it instead of hearing what my partner was saying, it escalated, I said I was going to take a break from the conversation (a tactic we agreed upon, although my partner really doesn’t like it) and then I said the worst thing I could say to them in a moment of frustration/anger “Maybe I’ll come back, maybe I won’t.” It just came out of my mouth and I knew it was terrible immediately. Before I took my walk I apologized immediately for saying it and that it was out of line, but the damage was done.

Yesterday I spent all day reading this forum and decided to try the SET approach to talking with my partner. It seemed to help but they were still extremely distant with me all day, which was honestly totally fine with me. I made us a nice dinner and did my best to be sweet, neutral, and loving, even though I am often criticized for being “too sweet” after a disconnect. Partner kept their distance all evening (didn’t go to bed with me, didn’t really want to talk, I just let them be). This text exchange just happened this morning after exchanging a few pictures and making plans for the day like we usually do when not fighting:

PARTNER:  How do I get a consistent interaction with sweet, caring concerned starfox that's not in the realm of partner is emotionally exhausted, self preserving and taking distance? 

I feel like I get ignored, criticized and pushed away to a breaking point, start to make peace with finality just to find this full throttle sweet repairing interaction to save the day.

This isn't sustainable. I want consistency.

ME: I hear you, I care about you and I want to work on this so much. (S) I’m hearing (and feeling/seeing) that you are feeling drained and guarded as a result of our most recent disconnect, and that you want sustainable consistency. (E) I want the same thing, and I’m actively seeking out some communication tools to do that, which I hope will become more of a standard. How can we work together on it? (T)

PARTNER: Figure out how to love yourself?  (notice how I said “We” and it becomes about what I need to do Pretty typical. I am accused of “skirting accountability” all the time btw)

ME: Thank you for the suggestion, it is something I have been actively working on. The book I’m reading right now has been really helpful to me this week--I think you would really like it too. (distracting; also he book I’m reading now is “You Are A Badass”)

PARTNER: Thanks. I feel like you attack anyone who tries to love you to validate your own self anger.  (nice to meet you pot, my name is kettle)

Your emotional path is your own process and I support you finding what you need.

I will not continue to feed into this cycle and allow your unhealthy emotions rip me apart so much.

That's either emotional and/or physical distance from me or your baggage being identified, compartmentalized and let go of.



I haven't responded bc I'm not sure what to say, which has led my partner to assume I've reached my saturation point. I just needed to say "Thanks, I need to think about this and will respond in kind soon" then follow through. I do have a lot of hope that my partner can work on their reactivity/finding attacks in everything! I hope counseling will help, I hope some of these methods discussed here can at least help me, and I hope to continue to work on all of my own “stuff” that holds me back. Thanks for reading if you did.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi starfox and Welcome!  

I'm so glad that you found the site and that you're discovering how helpful it can be for you, as I did.  What you describe does sound a lot like BPD traits and I must say that you appear to be taking a really positive approach to improving communication between you.  This takes real effort, and can feel a bit unnatural at first, yet once you get into the swing of things I hope you will find it makes both of your lives a lot easier.  Well done for your commitment to trying out new ways.
 There are some great articles and tools here, which I can see you've already been browsing and applying techniques from.

I notice that your partner brings up validation.  Is this something that you guys have talked about with your counsellor?  For me, learning to implement validation effectively was challenging at first, yet probably the most rewarding thing I learned once I got the hang of it.  How do you find you get on with validation of your partner?  This is something that a pwBPD craves and can go a long way to diffuse highly emotional states and allow communication to progress more smoothly.  There's a great article and video on the site, which I found extremely helpful in how I framed validation in my mind and it gave me some good pointers on application.  In case you've not seen this yet, here's a link:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

I hope it is helpful to you too.  You may have already covered this and mastered it, in which case hats off to you!  I really struggled initially until eventually it became second nature.    

I haven't responded bc I'm not sure what to say, which has led my partner to assume I've reached my saturation point.

 

Did you manage to come up with a response you felt happy with?  I know that getting it 'right' in a time frame that is comfortable to our partners can feel quite high pressure so be sure to go easy on yourself and know that you're doing a great job at considering best options to use and working on your part in things.  Nobody gets everything right every time so remember that you are doing your very best and your efforts will show.  For changes to take effect can take a little time whilst we iron out the kinks, and with your determination I'm sure you'll see improvements in how you both relate to one another.  Keep up the great work!  

Continue reading and posting here and you will find many other members who can relate to your situations and feelings.  Others will provide you with empathy and support, whilst sharing their own experiences that can benefit you, as yours will benefit others.  Let us know how it's going.

Love and light x        

[starfox]

Thank you for your response and welcome, Harley Quinn.   I was feeling a little worried that maybe I should have just stayed a reader on this forum or that I was complaining about nothing, as my partner is not diagnosed. I was actually trying to figure out how to delete my post, when you responded.

Validation is so hard! My partner has actually been really good at saying "I just want to be validated and heard" but it took me a long time to understand what that meant and they have been unable to offer much in the way of explaining it themselves, which is OK. I did start saying more at one point "I hear what you're saying" and then repeated back what I heard as an attempt to validate, and while it worked sometimes, other times I have been accused of just "parroting" back what they are saying and not actually listening, which leaves me feeling at a loss as to how to communicate the hearing part.

Since my partner was already saying those words to me so much, I think it kind of primed me for "getting it" a little more quickly when I read the definition of what that means. I know it will still take time to implement it consistently. Before finding this forum and other resources, to me the word validating meant agreeing with whatever they were saying/confirming that it was true, which I was having a reallyyyy hard time wrapping my head around because sometimes I don't agree at all or find their emotional response to be completely outsized to the situation at hand.

What I learned from this forum/articles is that validation is NOT agreeing, but it is acknowledging that the other person's feelings are real for them, and it's OK to feel them. That was a big mental game changer for me, and something I can definitely get behind.

I've also fallen into a pattern of apologizing for things when I didn't feel like I was actually doing anything wrong (apologies have been demanded of me for perceived slights or "wrong" behavior, and I've given them sometimes in an attempt to stop the fight, which never actually works and leaves me feeling terrible for apologizing for something that doesn't warrant one/something I didn't actually do). I'm hoping that validating without apologizing will be a key tool in helping our communication get better. I'm so glad it has worked for you and I have a feeling it will help my relationship a lot too.

I did end up quickly communicating to my partner's assumption that I was saturated, with a note that I was simply busy at work and would think on a response and get back shortly. This was acceptable enough to them, and when I did respond I asked them to explain a little differently what they meant by "I feel like you attack anyone who tries to love you to validate your own self anger" as (I didn't say this to them) it was kind of vague to me. We had a calm short dialogue about it where I tried to practice some more validating, and I was able to change the subject quickly to our plans together after work. We'll see how that goes when I see them.

Thank you so much for the video suggestion, I did not see that one and will watch it now. Any skill takes a long time to master I'll keep trying to do the best I can and also remember to keep taking care of myself.

Hugs 

[Harley Quinn]

Hi starfox,

I was feeling a little worried that maybe I should have just stayed a reader on this forum or that I was complaining about nothing, as my partner is not diagnosed.

You are definitely in the right place for help and support and deserving of it.  It's very important to have somewhere you feel you can share these things and be understood by others who experience similar behaviours in their relationships and be there for one another.  That's why I'm glad you found the site.  

You're clearly making real efforts to make a positive difference in your r/s and that's fantastic.  How did you find the video?  Implementing this stuff felt a little awkward for me in the beginning as I said, then I found that it was useful in all aspects of my life, with friends, family members and guess what?  With myself!  :)on't forget how hard you work at this and give yourself a little slack from time to time.  It's OK and understandable to experience the feelings you do in a r/s with someone who has these traits and we can all use a little cheer leading and validation from time to time so try to give it to yourself too as you practise.  

Love and light x

[Grey Kitty]

Validation is so hard! My partner has actually been really good at saying "I just want to be validated and heard" but it took me a long time to understand what that meant and they have been unable to offer much in the way of explaining it themselves, which is OK. I did start saying more at one point "I hear what you're saying" and then repeated back what I heard as an attempt to validate, and while it worked sometimes, other times I have been accused of just "parroting" back what they are saying and not actually listening, which leaves me feeling at a loss as to how to communicate the hearing part.

You hit one nail right on the head. Validation *IS* hard. It is also subtle, and it also takes practice. And you are taking good steps in that direction.

My experience here, and helping others not to try validation first, starting with things that are simpler/easier.

1. Make sure you aren't being accidentally INvalidating in ways you don't realize. If you say something that is 98% validating with 2% invalidation, all the validation is contaminated and lost.

So make sure you can stop yourself from JADEing, and avoid other invalidating things.

2. You cannot validate and enforce a boundary at the same time. Being able to enforce boundaries are key.

You need to be able to remove yourself from a circular argument. Your partner's trying to keep you in it, so it is intrinsically at least a little invalidating to yank yourself out of it. Do it anyways!

Same with verbal abuse--remove yourself from it.

Validation isn't the best tool to end a fight/conflict. In fact, it is far easier when your partner isn't so upset, or at least isn't upset at YOU.

Best of all... .practice validation with people in your life that aren't mentally ill! Coworkers, customers, maybe the grocery store checker, if you see an chance! You will find that it is far easier--they are more receptive... .and if you "miss" won't dysregulate at you!

And don't worry--you will get better at it, even with your partner, but give yourself time to learn.

[starfox]

My experience here, and helping others not to try validation first, starting with things that are simpler/easier.

1. Make sure you aren't being accidentally INvalidating in ways you don't realize. If you say something that is 98% validating with 2% invalidation, all the validation is contaminated and lost.

So make sure you can stop yourself from JADEing, and avoid other invalidating things.

2. You cannot validate and enforce a boundary at the same time. Being able to enforce boundaries are key.

You need to be able to remove yourself from a circular argument. Your partner's trying to keep you in it, so it is intrinsically at least a little invalidating to yank yourself out of it. Do it anyways!

Same with verbal abuse--remove yourself from it.

Validation isn't the best tool to end a fight/conflict. In fact, it is far easier when your partner isn't so upset, or at least isn't upset at YOU.

Best of all... .practice validation with people in your life that aren't mentally ill! Coworkers, customers, maybe the grocery store checker, if you see an chance! You will find that it is far easier--they are more receptive... .and if you "miss" won't dysregulate at you!

And don't worry--you will get better at it, even with your partner, but give yourself time to learn.

Thank you for your response and thoughtful advice, Grey Kitty. I especially appreciate the advice to practice on people without BPD in my life, as that will probably help a lot in getting more used to it. What to do in a fight/conflict though? Our therapist has recommended taking a break and walking away for a little while. My partner hates that, but it helps me a lot, and they do grudgingly accept it. Maybe validate after we've come back from the "cool down" period at the start of the conversation?

[starfox]

Things have been going really well for the last week, even though it's been kind of intense. Yesterday/today have been kind of dicey, and I think I'm just looking to vent a little.

It was my uBPD partner's birthday this week. They have expressed wanting to spend more time with friends and have more gatherings at our house so I did everything I could to plan a really awesome BBQ at our house. They really enjoyed it and so did everyone else. I was running around like a crazy person most of the day, but I had fun too. I plan events as part of my job so it wasn't too logistically hard, but it was still tiring of course.

I also had a lot going on at work this week otherwise, and with my period coming I was completely exhausted yesterday by the time work was done (extreme fatigue is one of the only symptoms of my PMS, and I'll take it over cramps any day). When I get fatigued like this, I usually just have to sleep a lot. Last night I came home from work and fell asleep on the floor, woke up, and got in bed at 8. Partner was out with my friend who is visiting.

I will stop here to note that I have my own issues/troubles with sleep. This has been a lifelong thing, and it has never been as huge of an issue in any other relationship I have had. Basically, I sleep like I'm dead and if you try to wake me up or touch me I will be mean, grouchy, and rude. Sometimes the meanness is very direct. 99% of the time I don't remember saying anything at all to the person doing the waking. In every other relationship I've had, it's been nothing more than a sometimes annoying quirk (except for with my mom, who had to wake me up for school, but that's a different can of worms and I'm sorry mom  . I lived with one other partner in the past who just avoided waking me up. Any time I was rude to them, they were able to let it roll off their shoulders, and maybe bring it up later and we would laugh about it together. Same with my best friend who I lived with--they just didn't wake me up and still won't to this day. One time I remember them being hurt when I got up in the morning, they told me I was mean, I apologized, and we moved on. Even my friend who is visiting--they lived with me for almost 2 months, and just learned to not wake me up or to just laugh about how incredibly ridiculous my behavior is in that state.

This sleep issue has been one of the biggest problems in my uBPD relationship, to the point where I sought my own therapy for a few months and was even hypnotized to try and quell how defensive I am in my sleep, as my partner "just wants nice mornings and to snuggle." When I am rude to my partner in my sleep and don't remember it, I get told it's "no different than if I punched them in the face." Sometimes they touch me and I'll slap their hand away. There's no amount of explaining how the meanness isn't about them  and in fact has nothing to do with them, as they just take it really, really personally. There's also no compromise on them just not touching me in my sleep, as they just want to be close all the time, despite the fact that touching me in my sleep is literally like touching an angry alligator.

It's been a lot better for awhile, but last night I was just done. Busy week + stress at work + stress of party + PMS = starfox is passed out dead in their work clothes in bed. Apparently last night when uBPD partner and my friend came home, uBPD partner tried to wake me up and I was mean and rude to them. They tried again and I was still mean and rude. They gave up and went to get food without me (1000% fine by me). Tried to ask if I wanted to get out of my work clothes -- starfox is mean. I remember 0% of this and while I do know I am mean/rude when sleeping from other people's accounts, I do also take my partner's accounts of these instances with a huge grain of salt.

So this morning they were upset at me and feeling incredibly hurt, and we talked about it a little bit upon waking up--this is also iffy/dicey, and I've requested we talk when I'm fully cognizant but sometimes we still have convos upon just waking up. This is probably a boundary that needs to be enforced better, no matter how much foot stomping comes from my uBPD partner.

I got up a little while after them and realized they were in a funk. I worked on doing the SET method with them, and assured them that of course I don't want to act like that in my sleep, etc etc. I think we were getting calmed down a little, but they were still pretty aggressively hurt. My friend who is staying with us overheard the conversation, and, wanting to help tried to intervene with their observation to my partner-- "You let yourself get so hurt by the people who love you." As much as I wanted to high five my friend and agree with that statement, my partner was definitely upset by it and not wanting to hear it.

I also explained to my friend that we're in therapy and stuff, and they will apologize for intervening. I know their heart was in a good place and I know they probably hated hearing my partner ramp up for what was about to be a tirade. Another interesting note is that my partner requested that I talk to my friend about the fact that "we're in therapy for this" meaning my sleep issues, which is NOT the reason we are in therapy together. Oh well.

Also trying to have a lot of compassion for my partner today as they are going through some pretty major life changes this week. They are changing their workplace, and getting rid of a ton of material possessions that they've been talking about getting rid of, and it was their birthday, which brings up a lot of stuff for them around family. Their dad didn't even call them and they were pretty hurt about that. Quite honestly, their family upbringing was emotionally abusive and terrible in a lot of ways and I think it is an ENORMOUS contributing factor to their mental and emotional processes and why they are the way they are. So I'm trying to hold space today. And breathe. And be supportive. And remind myself I have to be the emotionally strong one. But I just need to vent here a little.

Hugs and love.

[Grey Kitty]

  taking a time out when it is becoming a nasty fight is the right thing to do. I recommend at least 15-20 minutes if they are clearly well ruled up... .to allow time for adrenaline to clear from the bloodstream.

Don't let resistance stop you, and don't apologize for your actions (taking space) either.

Perhaps someday they will realize that it is good for both of you... .and thank you, but don't expect that.

You can acknowledge and validate hurt feelings from your leaving. Those feelings are real. They just won't keep you around to either be an emotional punching bag or to keep fighting and say things you will soon regret!

Bonus tip: one reason for those feelings is a fear of abandonment. The fear that you won't come back. You can leave with a TIME SPECIFIC commitment to return soon, and if you do, honor it. Even if you have to leave again immediately. "I'm going to the store. I'll be back in half an hour" or something similar. This will build some trust and make it easier to get away cleanly.


Dunno what to say about waking up mean. Other than pointing out that you haven't been able to change it all your life, and anybody who wants to live with you has to live with it. And the best move for them is to avoid doing it when possible.

[starfox]

Bonus tip: one reason for those feelings is a fear of abandonment. The fear that you won't come back. You can leave with a TIME SPECIFIC commitment to return soon, and if you do, honor it. Even if you have to leave again immediately. "I'm going to the store. I'll be back in half an hour" or something similar. This will build some trust and make it easier to get away cleanly.


Dunno what to say about waking up mean. Other than pointing out that you haven't been able to change it all your life, and anybody who wants to live with you has to live with it. And the best move for them is to avoid doing it when possible.

Yes... .I have learned time specific is the way to go too! No amount of foot stomping to stop me, though I can have more compassion knowing it's coming from a fear place. And can reassure that I will be back.

The mean thing is a thing. It has gotten a lot better as our relationship has progressed and after I went to months of therapy for it, but still flares up when I'm stressed or have PMS or especially in this case, both. It's interesting that when we first started dating, my partner was able to let it roll off their back a little more--we often slept in a tiny twin bed that I had. As we have gotten closer and especially after I moved in with them, that's when it's become more personal to them. I am almost positive it must feel like rejection. 

Thanks again for your support, helpful words, and encouragement.