Ruminating

[blueblue12]

I am going through a second month of NC but somehow I keep ruminating which I find both annoying but at the same time it opens my mind into analysing how bad the last year of our relationship was and how cruel the ending actually was.

I feel a lot stronger in that although I ruminate daily at some point in time I am also getting to a time where I can clearly see the cruelty of the final days together. Now I was married and had a relationship with this woman that went over ten years of our lives.

The ending was tough as she went cold, detached and gave me the silent treatment while still living together. After selling the house while she decided to go on a trip, I had no choice but to go through the logistics and move on.

I learned about BPD from my T who gave me new insights into my relationship as the sessions went on. I had no idea. Until then I was convinced it was all my fault, as I was told repeatedly that I was controlling, insecure, etc... .

Then it all made sense, the arguments, physical abuse at times, the ongoing drama I had to endure for years. I kept thinking that it was all due to her upbringing which was unsavoury to say the least and would try to nurture her back and love her unconditionally. In other words out up with everything I was thrown at. That was my role.

Now that I am free I understand how much I actually put up with. I was the rescuer, the supporting husband, father, friend, lover, cook, financial supporter, etc, etc... .and I was super loyal, I never, ever even thought of betraying her.

Well I learned later that while we were living together during the last year she started a new relationship, one that ended up in misery. All while I was still trying to save our marriage. During that period I asked her several times whether she may be starting an emotional relationship, I didn't dare think of anything further, and she would look at me in the eye and say no. She was lying. Hard to take.

Then later after we moved out and she was back she explained that she had started a new relationship but it wasn't good, the guy was selfish and terrible and it was over. And in her mind our relationship had ended. Well I didn't know that.

So after a break of about two months she started calling me, texting me crazily. She wanted to start again, a fresh start, a new beggining. Then I realised how crazy this whole thing actually was. I had one short recycle and decided to stay away. This was about four months ago. Since then I had one middle of the night call where she was not well at all, crying uncontrollably, after that I still get the occasional texts telling me how much she loves me, that we can start again, I am the greatest love of her life.

I have stayed quiet and do not envisage going back, there is just so much bad stuff there. The loyalty and lying I must say is what makes it final, how can you go back to that and attempt to restart? As my T says it will just happen again at some point. You are the good guy but also the bad guy, always. It is such a sad situation as when it was good, it was great, but perhaps not real. And I am a stage where I do not want to see her at all, it wouldn't serve any purpose. I would just be seduced back to a relationship that has been ruined. As my T says she bulldozed the whole thing, but now she is back, it was like just a chapter in her story. But it was a terrible chapter in mine.

But somehow I seem to keep ruminating, is that everyone's experience in the road to getting away from your BPD? How can you really go back and forgive the unforgivable? I just can't see it.

[enlighten me]

Hi Raul

Our stories are similar like so many on here. One thing that always makes me distrustful is when the pwBPD says things like yours did that her fling was selfish. Whenever I read that I always think about my exs lies and how they would say things like that to manipulate me. My ex wife accused my first replacement of raping her so she could recycle me. Her story was horrifying and when I spoke to her friend about it her friend was horrified as it was exactly what had happened to her. My exgf would say things about her exs that had the effect of me sympathising with her.

As for forgiveness I personally don't see it as necessary to be able to move on. I personally have accepted my exs for who they are and that they will never change and never be good for me. By accepting they are disordered and that there is no chance they will change it gave me the power to let go of any hope that things might work out.

[GlennT]

I think all of us were/are stuck in the rumination maze... .some longer than others. It's a natural progression.  Nature takes over, and Nature takes time. "The Happy Days" replays will get dimmer, and "The Bad Stuff" replays will get brighter. This is when your built in Toxic Meter is being installed, so you can be strong enough to tell them and other toxic people "No" in the future. The reasons why this happens will come to the front of your consciousness in time, and you will finally "get it": BPD people are toxic. Trust me. This will happen. I assure you. You will come to realize that you cannot bail out a Titanic with a coffee mug, and finally put yourself in a waiting life-boat.

[blueblue12]

Hi enlighten me and Glenn T,
Thank you for your responses. You are both so right. Time will pass and time will heal. I must say I have changed a bit already. I was so attached to my ex wife, I felt so hard done by her decision to end things when I thought we had so much going together, it was devastating. At that time I was willing to do anything to keep our marriage intact, but she had a different idea. But then she tells me she was wrong and that she made a mistake. In my mind though she made a massive mistake! A bit different. As you rightly point out the happy days seem a lot time ago and the bad times very recent. Whenever I day dream about the good times they actually do seem distant, as if they were years and years ago. And the bad times are the ones I seem to recall easily and close.

I am so disappointed in the way she discarded me. I really feel that I didn't deserve that kind of disrespectful end. But at the time she was set on ending things. In reading recent posts in the forum I also feel that perhaps her leaving while the house was being sold was her way of not been able to face the truth and face me while everything collapsed. She couldn't cope and couldn't face the reality of her actions. Recently she was texting me about getting back together, how much she missed me, how much she loved me, etc, etc, at one point I had to say "you left me, did you forget?" To which she replied "please stop with that" which I found really odd, like really not been able at all to face the result of her actions.

And her short lived relationship after me was tinted by extremely bad outcomes, outcomes that have really changed her life, as many things went severely wrong and she experienced traumatic changes, very sad indeed. Such bad results from her poorly worked out decision to move on. And I ask myself, ok she left me, started a new relationship, how come things didn't succeed? how come they didn't live happily ever after? I guess the results of poorly thought out decisions.

So even after all that she comes back, but I find it almost impossible to re engage. How can one forget and forgive the way one is discarded? when it is so cruel and cold. When I think back I can hardly believe it was the same woman.

[Elmurr]

It's funny that you mention that in her head the relationship was over. Yet it was never mentioned. So that justifies her having another relationship to her. It's a bizarre logic, and an example of the clear cowardice that seems common with these types of women. It also keeps you around whilst she works with another supply, minimising risk and maximising potential hurt to you; but that doesn't matter, all that matters is her, right?

One of the reasons you will NEVER win against a borderline is that they expertly and wholly justify their own actions in their own minds, even if that justification is completely skewed. And if they can't find justification internally, they will look for something you did in the past, or push you so hard to do something bad and then use that as justification. And BANG, they're completely redeemed for cheating on you, and you're the arsehole! It is how they defend themselves from the shame that any sane person would feel.

It is the same process that they use when they tell a story giving 90% of the truth and 10% untruth. To them, this IS telling the truth. They convince themselves of it and if you dare question it YOU are abusive, insane, unstable, and all the other things. In her head she would likely have been saying, "yes I'm seeing someone, but we aren't in a relationship anymore, so it's fine". It's extremely unhealthy.

Re-engaging with this person would be the worst possible action as you know. As you say, she has not / will not change. She just NEEDS you at the moment. It's truly heartbreaking to realise that someone who so convincingly demonstrated that they "love" in fact has no idea of what that is, but instead searches only for self gratification, security, and drama.

Best to steer clear and take the higher ground.

[blueblue12]

Yes Elmurr all bad really when you look at it deeply. All wrong. Justifying a new relationship while still together? It was horrible news to me, but deep down I knew, and I asked her several times, but she lied back, but you know what? At the end I was right, I could tell, and I was justified. I wasn't the 'controlling insecure' guy asking, I was right. See when I asked a question like that her response would be "see? You are so jealous and insecure, you need help, need to fix yourself." That's how I ended up going to see a T!

They put it back on you, you have the problems. There is something wrong with you! Terrible stuff. At the end though she was actually the controlling, selfish, manipulator. And I really thought it was all my fault, they make you feel so odd that you start believing every word they tell you about your issues.

My T enlightened me. I really had no idea, never heard of BPD before but I am now convinced I was married to one and put up with it for ten years. It's a long time, I feel strange about lots of things in regards to our marriage now, her behaviour and actions ruined a lot of romantic notions I had about our life, our connection, it's quite sad really. You suddenly feel like you were living with a stranger. As if you were kind of fooled all along.

[lovenature]

Ruminating is part of recovery: your mind has to make sense of what you have gone through, the further out you get and the more you learn the clearer things become, and it is both helpful and hurtful.
Stay 100% NC. Don't think about going back and forgiving, the more you forgive and the closer you get the more you get hurt and pushed away.
Unless a PWBPD commits to YEARS of therapy, the cycle will ALWAYS repeat.

[blueblue12]

You are so right lovenature, I am too scared to go back, to even see her as she will manipulate the situation. When I was recycled she organised a meeting and when I go there she cried uncontrollably for at least 15 minutes straight, not a word, just crying, it got me right there, I was hooked again immediately! But a few days later she started to pick arguments again, that was it, I kept away after that, now I am too aware to go through that kind of scenario again. Must let go and move forward!

[Elmurr]

It takes a few returns before you realise that you HAVE to stay away for your own sake. When I went to see mine the last time at her request ("either you come here RIGHT NOW or I'm coming to find you"! - her words) she cried in the dark whilst drunk and listening to the songs we listened to together. She only spoke to shout abuse at me or compare me very unfavourably with the other men she'd cheated on me with or to tell me she didn't love me at all anymore, and when I tried to answer her questions she screamed over me immediately cutting me off every time... She eventually attacked me physically and I ended up breaking my hand on her bedroom door, it was either that or her face, which I suspect she would have preferred (victim mentality). Afterwards she claimed I had hit her, which I hadn't, which didn't help her much. That was the end. It seemed fitting based on the whole relationship. My advice to anyone would be just don't go back. Don't think it'll change. It will only get worse. And you'll likely be left psychologically damaged for months if not years.

[Enabler]

Who would imagine that there seems to be such a well defined formula repeated across the world by various different men and women. All dealing or not as the case seems to be with this in exactly the same way. Yet no one trains BPD sufferers what to do and how to behave. So many of the points above resonate with my current experience.

I too have been ruminated excessively. For me I'm a natural solutions guy, so, for me this is the biggest puzzle I have ever come across. I move the pieces of "facts" or my understanding of "reality" around in my head such that I can make sense of uBPDw's behaviors, reactions and communication and my own behaviors, reactions and communication. I feel it is important for me to ascertain the facts and how the influenced the situation enabling me to have a solid footing to move forward with. I suppose it's even more imperative for me as I have been accused of being abusive (as a deflection from her emotional (maybe physical) affair with OM), I need to assure myself that I am not guilty and I have assessed my own behaviors as much as humanly possible so I know that I am not THE PROBLEM especially in the face of my kids. THE FACTS have been so muddled due to gaslighting over the years it feels as though I need to re-write the script without the edits I have made due to uBPDw's manipulation of the truth.

The guilt and shame some of us have taken on ourselves is heartbreaking.