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Author Topic: Emotional Incest Between Fiancé and her Son  (Read 1313 times)
Leanback
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« on: August 04, 2017, 10:29:11 AM »

My fiance and her son has a strange, strong, too close for comfort relationship.  I've come to narrow down the term (Emotional Incest).  This completely identfies their situation to the fullest.   I have been around 2 1/2 years now.  I've seen the son runaway from home 4 times.  Completely just doesn't care about high school at all.  (Grades, football games, parties, prom girls).  He will follow her around the house like a puppy giving her full undivided  attention everyday.  I used to think he was a Mama's boy.   It's alot More complex than just that.   When he gets in trouble.   She gets mad at him and then says "He will have a hard time being punished. " An they crave each other's attention. " When you ask him why he runs away or doesn't do his school work.   His answer is "I dont know why I do the things I do."   He has recently gone to job core because he is so far behind in school.   An I know she misses him.   But some time she will just cry and screaming" I need my son."   " We need each other's attention. " These are just a few examples and there is a whole lot more.   He is 17 by the way. How can I get her to understand that there is a problem ?
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Sunfl0wer
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: He moved out mid March
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2017, 10:54:53 AM »

If she is leaning on her child (albeit almost adult child) for emotional support, then likely it is because this feels like it is a safe way to get it.  

Not so sure that then attempting to confront or shed light on this will help her to gain what she is lacking in being able to find herself feeling comfy in adult dynamic exchanges of affection/attention and self soothing.  Also, if he is 17, this has likely been going on for as long as he has been around... .or following some break up or other such loss.

I guess what I am saying is that awareness of her situation is not the cure, and not necessarily going to lead to self discovery for her.  It can actually make her feel insecure in the adult intimacy dynamic between you two and lead her to cling to him more.

My advice:
Radical acceptance.
We cannot make people see what they don't want to see.  (However, I understand if you feel you need to give it a fair try first.)
This has likely been going on for years... .personally, I have seen lots of enmeshed relationships of parentification/or infantilizing... . never have I seen anyone parentifying or infantilizing their child, completely stop.  I have on the other hand witnessed the parentifying parent go through cycles of parentification in attempt to feel they fixed the situation, but then usually they cycle back into that old familiar role.  I mean, just sharing my own observations, maybe others have seen this fixed, just saying I have not.

My ex and his daughter is one such example... .
When his family was around, he would not rely on his kid for emotional needs and would even treat her like she and he were both seperate capable beings.  When others weren't looking, or when he was stressed, he default reverted back to parentifying stuff, or enmeshment via infantilizing her.  He was actually told by several therapists that he needed to work on the dynamics.  They would reframe what she could be responsible for or shouldn't be expected of her.  They never came out and accused him of infantilizing or parentification, but they did it via examples and explaining in specifics, not labels.  So I can only imagine, using those labels may not be best course when trying to deal with behaviors of parentification... .idk tho.

My uBPD sis parentifies her daughter.  She wants to spend time with her when her BF and her are struggling, but doesn't give her the time of day when BF and her are ok.  I really can't expect her to have any other way of relating, she seems incapable.

Maybe others are more hopeful on a parentifying mom changing the dynamic... .
IMO, not so hopeful here and thinking this is best handled with a huge dose of RA on your part.  This stuff existed before you got there, so kinda is what it is.

Maybe best place to have an impact is to shift your attention to how will you cope with a relationship with a woman who parentifies her child?
Seems to me the core issue is one of not being bale to have inner resources for self soothing and self esteem, feeling ok with ones self.  If these things were full in her, she would not need to long for a child to meet where she feels inept emotionally.
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How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself.~Anais Nin
Leanback
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2017, 09:06:19 AM »

Thank you for your response.   You are basically saying it's not worth bringing this to her attention and I need to find a away to deal with this if I can.         

After reading up on Emotional Incest this has the potential to be alot more.   Honestly I don't like it at all and not sure if this is something I can cope without saying anything.   If it upsets her or his feelings I could careless.   This boy will never grow up and if there is more I think it all needs to be addressed.  I've brought up several of his and her patterns to her attention not too long ago.   At first she was upset with me until I had pointed something out to her as they were happening.   

For example her son has mastered the trait of becoming very manipulative and plays her emotions.   Until this was pointed out she had no idea that this occurs.   

Well I will think about this harder and I will find away to break some of this down to her easier and see what happens.
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Sunfl0wer
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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2017, 10:24:48 PM »

Humm... .

I think what I am saying... .
Is either way, this is the person you met and this is part of who she is.  So yes, you likely need to accept that you are dating someone in what you consider to be an emotionally incestuous relationship with her child.  It just is what it is. 
Are you going to be ok with that?
What if she does agree to not rely on him so much, tries, but ultimately reverts back to old habits easily, will you be ok with this?

I once heard someone say... .
Don't date people for their potential.  Don't date people for who you hope they will become.  It doesn't usually work out too well to do that.

The other thing is... .
If she even wants to change her relationship with the child, this is likely to take a very long time, lots of therapy and growth on her part. 

Then the third thing is the dynamic between the two of you.
She likely has some intimacy issues for her to "need" this enmeshed relationship with a child.  She may very well resent you for bringing this up.  Or you may very well end up resenting her for her actions/inactions towards him or you.  (This is why needing radical acceptance is important.

Yet, looks like your current approach is playing her therapist via pointing stuff out to her and such... .  this usually is ok with folks short term, but in the long run... .  not so sure how this will continue to play out.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with something more useful though, idk... .possibly I am a bit more cynnical than most, idk, maybe not... .just not sure.
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How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself.~Anais Nin
Basenji
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2017, 07:44:29 PM »

Hopefully someone else will chime in with something more useful though, idk... .possibly I am a bit more cynnical than most, idk, maybe not... .just not sure.

My I make a couple of observations from the perspective of having been the child who was subjected to an emotionally incestuous relationship by an uBPD mother - father left home when I was about 7 years old.

IF it really is a case of emotional incest, then it is a situation which has been created by the mother, not the child! If emotional incest then the child has likely been psychologically and psycho-sexually abused by the mother. The child is the victim. Not the mother! The child may be responding in some ways that have been "groomed" by the mother on the one hand and in some others which derive from their protection mechanisms.

IF emotional incest the child may face years of personal growth to overcome the pervasive psychological impacts of their childhood - anxiety issues, emotional issues, difficulty with relationships and intimacy. The child may need a lot of professional support to be nurtured through the healing process. This may or may not mean the child will need to be independent of the mother (effectively "separated", which the mother may not like!

IF emotional incest then the mother is beset with some quite vexing psychological issues! Talking it through isn't going to fix the underlying problems. If emotional incest you are dealing with somebody who has pervasive psychological issues possibly reflecting their formative experiences (they could have been abused themselves in their childhood, for example) and genetic predisposition or personality type.

Please may I offer some ideas?

It might be prudent to seek professional advice (by yourself) in the first instance to try to clarify what you might be facing in this situation. Maybe it isn't emotional incest - just a case of a needy child for some other reason (?).

Then you might like to ask yourself what the implications are for the dynamics of your relationship with your fiancee and potential step child. What do you want out of a relationship? What are you prepared to do to realise the relationship you seek?

It seems there may be three choices:

1. Accept the situation and whatever strengths and weaknesses it presents because you see value in your current relationship
2. Confront the situation (which might only be resolved with both mother and child accepting their issues and seeking to heal themselves, probably with professional support) and risk resistance and a shift in your current relationship dynamics
3. Walk away and leave them to sort it all out themselves or individually - too hard basket and you're not a psych professional qualified to fix such a intractable dynamic!

In your position, I would want to assure myself that the real issue is indeed emotional incest because the implications are sobering (your partner is potentially a child abuser and you will need to accept the fact!).

If you choose options (1) or (2) please do not underestimate the intractable nature of the situation and the long term struggle for these people to find their inner happiness.

Please also consider that if it is emotional incest your fiancé is (emotionally / psychologically) dating two of you - yourself and the child: potentially you are never to going to enjoy a "normal" relationship until this situation is fully resolved (if ever).

Please consider that my position may be a lot more cynical that others (having coming from the background of being abused through emotional incest) and others may see other options and ideas more relevant to your particular situation.





 





 
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Sunfl0wer
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Relationship status: He moved out mid March
Posts: 2583



« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 08:43:32 AM »

Gotta say... .
Completely agree with Basenji.

Excerpt
If emotional incest then the child has likely been psychologically and psycho-sexually abused by the mother. The child is the victim. Not the mother! The child may be responding in some ways that have been "groomed" by the mother on the one hand and in some others which derive from their protection mechanisms.

Excerpt
IF emotional incest then the mother is beset with some quite vexing psychological issues!

Also agree with the rest, just highlighting that yea, this is abuse and quite a complicated situation.
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How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself.~Anais Nin
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