Which way should I go?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello to all members. It's my second post about my experience. I'm thinking about fixing things and posted first how to save this relationship but I'm very confused and really don't know if it's possible. So I post here.
I just wish not to make more damages.

My girlfriend probably suffers from BPD. Never diagnosed. I'm a psychologist but without much experience and I was traveling for last few years. Never had any experience with BPD person in close relationship before.

I'm in relationship with her for 1,5 year. She lives in China. We met there. We always had difficulties in relationship. I developed codependency as I can see and definitely it makes things worse. Somehow I have also lot of other limitations and even if I wished so much to make a good relationship with her I would say I made lot of mistakes instead.


We created toxic companionship and it was lot of hurt from beginning but none of us didn't want to stop. I lost completely ground and sense of reality.

We wished to be family. She has 4 years old wonderful daughter from previous relationship with whom finally I developed a good bonds.
She pushed to have a child since beginning. I wasn't ready for real life and I naively believed I will grow in this relationship. She couldn't get pregnant for almost 11 months. During this time she was pretty controlling and emotionally abusive (like kicking me out from her apartment every three days). But I believed she might be the person who I met at the beginning and felt so lucky I've met her. I stayed and tolerated abuse. Well not always. When there was too much for me I left back home. It was after few months together with one break  when I went home to organize my things. We broke up. But I didn't want to leave her. I believed she may change. She came to me later but experience was the same and I was thinking about giving up. Then she got pregnant. We came back to China. She became very abusive and I was getting to be cold and so on. She was breaking up and started to talk about abortion. At some point I was completely lost and hurt and I felt it's too much and told her I can't stand it anymore. I broke up. Her parents convinced her to make abortion the same day and asked me to stay and take care of her. I stayed two weeks. Very hard weeks. Just before I was about to leave she asked me to stay with her and continue relationship. But I left. I regretted later. I tried to come back but she didn't want. After some time she changed her mind and we started again. On the phone everything seemed to be ok. But this time was even harder. She was full of hate blaming me for abortion. I didn't want to give up but she was unhappy angry and was breaking up with me almost everyday. I was exhausted. We talked one day and it seemed to me she's willing to give up. I started to think about the same.
She got pregnant again. We talked and we decided to be together and follow some rules. In next two days she broke all rules and asked me to leave. I was desperate and  didn't want to leave but it seemed like I have to show her what she wants. Well I have to say I was also very scared of this baby because I felt it's so hard to be with her. It's my darkest side I've ever encountered. She kicked me out when she was pregnant before. I went to talk with my mum. She lost control and punched me for that. She attacked me with furry. I stopped her and in emotions said it's the end. She was broken. Called her father who asked her for another abortion. Then called her friends. And they talked. She told me there is a problem and I can't go. They gathered and didn't let me go out when I tried to leave without anything to check of she's serious and she said I have to take responsibility for her another abortion and said according to local tradition when man is irresponsible has to leave money or leg. She said she wants my leg. And threatened me for few hours with death or serious damage to my body. I involved my family. At the end she stopped and said I can go but I was scared. She was still threatening me so I played. I didn't have anyone to help. She "conviced" me to stay in relationship but I was just terrified. And when there was a chance I run away to Thailand. She knew it will be hard now but believed I will be back. I developed after this situation some anxiety. I don't trust her. I'm scared of her. I wish not hurt her and don't leave her pregnant on her own but I just closed my eyes I was in the worst mental condition I've ever been with intention to hurt myself. I left. We started to talk after few days. I told her it's just insane what she did. She never regretted never said sorry. Didn't make me calm at all but even threatened me again and changed the scenario that happened that day a little to make me more responsible for her actions.


She wanted me to go back but I didn't go. I started to feel bad about what she did to me for all this time we had... Everyone is saying I shouldn't go back including a psychologist from emergency line. I should probably behave better know more and it would be different story now but it's too late

 I'm away for one month. She cut me off ten days ago and broke up with me.

I want to write her email and I wouldn't mind to go back to her and try to make things better even if after four weeks reading here I'm getting finally closer to understand what is going on. We triggered our problems in each other and hurt each other a lot. It can be very difficult to go back. I have also safety issues and don't know what to do with that. She said she won't do any harm to me but after what I experienced I don't know if I can trust her.

I feel I wish to be with her. She's charming, intelligent, strong and beautiful girl. I wished to try to continue our relationship but it seems like I can't fail anymore but when I see what we just had I'm loosing my confidence. Now I don't really have a good plan. I could come back but with the same cards. And of course I don't want be back to experience more drama. We don't have comfort to learn somehow. I feel if I will fail there will be serious problem and I don't know how to protect myself there.

I want to move because so far I'm just lying down devastated and crying and reading about our problems.

I'm getting to understand better BPD and I can see I did everything exactly opposite to what I should do. Leaving her was the worst. I want to change.

The other option is to go back home take care of myself get stronger and then the situation can be different also for her but I'm scared I will lose her forever this way and also my child.

I also want to write her email. Ask her how is she how's the baby. Try to tell her how I see the situation that happened to us. We are really like puppets of some dark forces within us and we can't break the cycle. So I want to break up her no contact (or silent treatment). I wonder what is it. She broke up so there was closure. But she is pregnant.
Her friend asked me about my plans and where I am few days ago but she might did it on her own.

I will appreciate all suggestions all direction I should consider to go and consequences. Thank you

[Haba]

Hello to all members. It's my second post about my experience. I'm thinking about fixing things and posted first how to save this relationship but I'm very confused and really don't know if it's possible. So I post here.
I just wish not to make more damages.

My girlfriend probably suffers from BPD. Never diagnosed. I'm a psychologist but without much experience and I was traveling for last few years. Never had any experience with BPD person in close relationship before.

I'm in relationship with her for 1,5 year. She lives in China. We met there. We always had difficulties in relationship. I developed codependency as I can see and definitely it makes things worse. Somehow I have also lot of other limitations and even if I wished so much to make a good relationship with her I would say I made lot of mistakes instead.


We created toxic companionship and it was lot of hurt from beginning but none of us didn't want to stop. I lost completely ground and sense of reality.

We wished to be family. She has 4 years old wonderful daughter from previous relationship with whom finally I developed a good bonds.
She pushed to have a child since beginning. I wasn't ready for real life and I naively believed I will grow in this relationship. She couldn't get pregnant for almost 11 months. During this time she was pretty controlling and emotionally abusive (like kicking me out from her apartment every three days). But I believed she might be the person who I met at the beginning and felt so lucky I've met her. I stayed and tolerated abuse. Well not always. When there was too much for me I left back home. It was after few months together with one break  when I went home to organize my things. We broke up. But I didn't want to leave her. I believed she may change. She came to me later but experience was the same and I was thinking about giving up. Then she got pregnant. We came back to China. She became very abusive and I was getting to be cold and so on. She was breaking up and started to talk about abortion. At some point I was completely lost and hurt and I felt it's too much and told her I can't stand it anymore. I broke up. Her parents convinced her to make abortion the same day and asked me to stay and take care of her. I stayed two weeks. Very hard weeks. Just before I was about to leave she asked me to stay with her and continue relationship. But I left. I regretted later. I tried to come back but she didn't want. After some time she changed her mind and we started again. On the phone everything seemed to be ok. But this time was even harder. She was full of hate blaming me for abortion. I didn't want to give up but she was unhappy angry and was breaking up with me almost everyday. I was exhausted. We talked one day and it seemed to me she's willing to give up. I started to think about the same.
She got pregnant again. We talked and we decided to be together and follow some rules. In next two days she broke all rules and asked me to leave. I was desperate and  didn't want to leave but it seemed like I have to show her what she wants. Well I have to say I was also very scared of this baby because I felt it's so hard to be with her. It's my darkest side I've ever encountered. She kicked me out when she was pregnant before. I went to talk with my mum. She lost control and punched me for that. She attacked me with furry. I stopped her and in emotions said it's the end. She was broken. Called her father who asked her for another abortion. Then called her friends. And they talked. She told me there is a problem and I can't go. They gathered and didn't let me go out when I tried to leave without anything to check of she's serious and she said I have to take responsibility for her another abortion and said according to local tradition when man is irresponsible has to leave money or leg. She said she wants my leg. And threatened me for few hours with death or serious damage to my body. I involved my family. At the end she stopped and said I can go but I was scared. She was still threatening me so I played. I didn't have anyone to help. She "conviced" me to stay in relationship but I was just terrified. And when there was a chance I run away to Thailand. She knew it will be hard now but believed I will be back. I developed after this situation some anxiety. I don't trust her. I'm scared of her. I wish not hurt her and don't leave her pregnant on her own but I just closed my eyes I was in the worst mental condition I've ever been with intention to hurt myself. I left. We started to talk after few days. I told her it's just insane what she did. She never regretted never said sorry. Didn't make me calm at all but even threatened me again and changed the scenario that happened that day a little to make me more responsible for her actions.


She wanted me to go back but I didn't go. I started to feel bad about what she did to me for all this time we had... Everyone is saying I shouldn't go back including a psychologist from emergency line. I should probably behave better know more and it would be different story now but it's too late

 I'm away for one month. She cut me off ten days ago and broke up with me.

I want to write her email and I wouldn't mind to go back to her and try to make things better even if after four weeks reading here I'm getting finally closer to understand what is going on. We triggered our problems in each other and hurt each other a lot. It can be very difficult to go back. I have also safety issues and don't know what to do with that. She said she won't do any harm to me but after what I experienced I don't know if I can trust her.

I feel I wish to be with her. She's charming, intelligent, strong and beautiful girl. I wished to try to continue our relationship but it seems like I can't fail anymore but when I see what we just had I'm loosing my confidence. Now I don't really have a good plan. I could come back but with the same cards. And of course I don't want be back to experience more drama. We don't have comfort to learn somehow. I feel if I will fail there will be serious problem and I don't know how to protect myself there.

I want to move because so far I'm just lying down devastated and crying and reading about our problems.

I'm getting to understand better BPD and I can see I did everything exactly opposite to what I should do. Leaving her was the worst. I want to change.

The other option is to go back home take care of myself get stronger and then the situation can be different also for her but I'm scared I will lose her forever this way and also my child.

I also want to write her email. Ask her how is she how's the baby. Try to tell her how I see the situation that happened to us. We are really like puppets of some dark forces within us and we can't break the cycle. So I want to break up her no contact (or silent treatment). I wonder what is it. She broke up so there was closure. But she is pregnant.
Her friend asked me about my plans and where I am few days ago but she might did it on her own.

I will appreciate all suggestions all direction I should consider to go and consequences. Thank you

[Haba]

I wonder also about this email. I just don't know if it's ok. She decided to go into no contact. Should I accept it and respect it and wait or I can try to contact her and see what can we do? I also understand it can be silent treatment but I can't really say what is it for sure...

[Haba]

It's like confessions of codependent. I'm justifying myself. I let the monster of destruction to grow a lot. Poor very good person suffered a lot with me.  I'm thinking how to find the way out from the darkness. I have to accept the facts and ask myself how much I can stand. I want to talk with her about her feelings because I was just talking only about mine recently. I don't remember when I was empathic with her and irony I can be a good in this. I want ask about little girl. It's so hard to face I'm not with them. I want to be close to her hug her hold her belly with our baby. Hold her tide. What stops me to go there and be with them. It could be the most beautiful time in our lives instead of pain. I want to save this relationship. I want be with this girl. But how to move on in better direction and not to lose it in next moment? I want to grow enough to take the responsibility. I'm completely not prepared now and time is running so I need to start here and take few steps in good direction. I know it won't be easy but I wish to go.

[heartandwhole]

I want to save this relationship. I want be with this girl. But how to move on in better direction and not to lose it in next moment? I want to grow enough to take the responsibility. I'm completely not prepared now and time is running so I need to start here and take few steps in good direction. I know it won't be easy but I wish to go.

Haba, this is a very tough situation to be in. I'm sorry that this is happening.   It's very understandable to be unsure about which way to go. None of us can tell you what to do, but we can give you some hope that things can get better. It's not easy and it takes a lot of effort, but it is possible.

This article may help as you think about what steps you want to take going forward:

What Does It Take to Be in a Relationship | BPD

What do you think?

heartandwhole

[Haba]

Haba, this is a very tough situation to be in. I'm sorry that this is happening.   It's very understandable to be unsure about which way to go. None of us can tell you what to do, but we can give you some hope that things can get better. It's not easy and it takes a lot of effort, but it is possible.

This article may help as you think about what steps you want to take going forward

Thank you Heartandwhole.

Yes I know this article. I thought about it. I'm changing my expectations about her about this relationship. No more dreaming. Well there is a dream of course but I know it's a long way and still luck is very important. I understand there is lot of work to make it happen and it won't be easy. I know which direction it is about to go.
Of course my thinking can be affected by my codependency. I don't trust myself anymore because I believed I can make something good and here we are. I'm scared of myself. I don't understand everything yet. I don't want to fail anymore because I will just make more damage to her, me and our families. It's a huge responsibility. I know what I'm facing. And I'm really scared.
I have to be realistic too and act as an adult not wishing something kid. We are here because we both have issues. I'm not the strongest. I'm not the rock. In fact I'm very sensitive. I can see my responses were completely wrong so far but I also understand I have skills to learn to stop contributing to emotional instability. I have motivation to do so even if I'm really scared because I don't want to have in my life beautiful and good woman with my kid far from me. I don't want to go that way even if it might happen because I won't manage.
My fears are:

I don't know if I can think I will do it if I can say I'm trusted person. I want her best but after this what we had I'm not sure if I still have a chance to be a person who can really help.

At the moment I think I will have to do something completely different than she expects. I have to take care of myself. I have to heal my wounds and go out from codependency completely. I have to create a strong balanced person and perhaps without her so our relationship will erode further if we can still say if we have it because I don't where she is. And nothing can be done about it. I can't say I'm ready for it.

Then conditions are not the best. I don't have protection in case of serious problems whatsoever. I believe I was black painted recently a lot. In the city where we live people probably just hate me. After this last story I'm not even safe myself there. Her parents hate me. It's a fact. For all of them I'm just weak and irresponsible. So there is no support. I feel completely abandoned without anyone who could help. I'm basically on my own there and under such conditions completely dependent on her. And no chance for professional help and probably no understanding I will need it. Could be different in other places. She wishes to move in a few years and I don't think she will sacrifice anything for getting out from her sickness. She might not be interested. This is my biggest concern.

For now I have to understand why I'm at this point of my life because there is a reason. I have to get stronger and respond in the healthiest possible way. I understand I can grow a care taker but it won't be easy and conditions to do it are really difficult. I also don't want to fail and so far I was able to stand maximum two months. And it can't be this way. I have to learn and yes I believe I can. I have some predisposition which can help. I hope it's not just illusion of codependency. Definitely I don't want to play victim role anymore. I'm not the strongest but I'm wishing to change. I'm concerned about safety and support.

I want to tell her today what I believe we are facing and what I wish but I have to be realistic and can't really promise or guarantee anything unfortunately. It's also the worst possible moment for that in my life. I was traveling didn't work for long time. There is not easy to settle everything and start from scratch in China where we lived. I went to codependency and I was just trying to help her without taking care of my things. So I'm very dependent. I have to change this and it's about time. And she's pregnant now. She already told me if I'm not with her when she's pregnant I can forget about her. It's insane because I wish to be with her more than anything but I don't want to just go and cause more damage because I have the same cards in my hand as I had so far. I'm understanding better everyday the situation but still has to learn and learn. I don't know if she will wait. If she will understand. So hard. But no choice. I want to go in good direction. Thanks to You I know far more than ever before.

I have a question. I have learned that there is no other way to improve things in abusive relationship than to stop violence. On the other hand care taker has to accept there will be abuse and has to develop strategies to cope with them. I understand I can't run anymore because of pain but what to do to limit my exposure to abuse. I'm really scared of going back to China right now. I expect there might be revenge.
How should I address this question right now?

[Haba]

Wow I got scared. I just realized I have some anxiety disorder (obsessions and fears related to threats I was exposed to) and I can see it's affecting my response from the beginning to the end. It's exaggerated. I'm avoiding something that can be only in my mind.

We have some serious trust issues. In context of this article I wonder if I'm not just blind to think it's possible to reverse this situation as she has trust issues as well and I want to become her rock. What if it's just simply not possible.
I'm flooded with guilt. Because I was so scared I run away because of her behavior but at the end my response was the worst it could be to calm situation and improve something. And still is. I feel I should take care of myself first because I'm really low before I start to do anything else but somehow I know it will be eroding our relationship and I just don't know. Maybe I should go back to her and start now. Even if I don't feel safe.

[heartandwhole]

I feel I should take care of myself first because I'm really low

Haba, it's very important to take care of yourself. If you are not doing well, then you can't be there for your partner or your child. I can understand how much pressure you must feel to make a decision. It really is tough.

Maybe I should go back to her and start now. Even if I don't feel safe.

I think you need a support system. Do you think you can build one there in China? Will you have access to professionals who can help?

We are here for you. 

heartandwhole

[Haba]

I think you need a support system. Do you think you can build one there in China? Will you have access to professionals who can help?

Thank you heartandwhole for more directions to look after.

I was thinking about support system. It might be completly crazy idea but I was thinking to talk with her parents. The whole family went to support her and are with her as she told me. I believe only they have key to change this situation and balance somehow things and people around but I really don't know if I have a right to ask them for help. Last time what I've heard (I exchanged emails with her) they are not happy with her decision to give birth to our child but help her.

I was thinking about any other country where we could really receive professional help and where I could build support system but she's about to finish her new SPA in China. So it will be hard to convince her to give up her 1,5 year work. I think she is just wishing me to come back. She worked very hard. She did really good work. Was a lot of stress for her.


I'm starting to think a little about your questions and maybe I just don't have any arguments to become care taker now and if so what does it mean? If I won't be care taker now who I will be then? Person who enables her symptoms and nothing else? Are we going to repaet another cycle and if it's the case then there will be another tragedy at the end which we can't avoid? Why everyone says I shouldn't even think to come back because she is a person who may see you in category of enemy and you are completly without protection there. What is the other role I can play? What will be the healthiest response now?

I'm starting to realize few things. I would say I'm going out from some kind of fog. I searched a little about BPD recently and I'm getting new information everyday. I don't understand them all yet.

I wrote her email where I tried to explain where I am now.
I wish to have a chance to be with my partner and kids. I always wished to be with her as she says no matter what.
Her behavior devastates me. One, two months and I have to leave because I'm completly out of reason. When I get better (alone) I see things better and I go again (not this time so far).  Is it codepedency that I'm trying something (relationship) that is impossible in such conditions? I started to worry it can be.

I got answer and this is what I'm talking about. I see things differently now. At the begining I felt very nice about her email. I was even seriously considering to go to China but now I think we will just start another recycle because there is no reason to think something different can happen. It's just very surprising to me I can change my mind so easily after few words (email was very long) from her even after such story that happened recently there. I know I have to be realistic and don't expect sweets anymore. Why it's so easy to believe she might changed? I should now it's love bombing plus few things more and resist.


In her message she was wishing me well no matter what gonna happen and promised me that nothing bad will ever happen to me "even if she has to face it alone". I shouldn't worry and maybe just get better with myself if I'm so scared. She was worried about my mental condition and even said maybe we can't be together because she doesn't want me to get crazy. It wouldn't be good for her family but in reality I think she was checking waters. She asked me questions what now what about us. Proposed few scenarios inculding continuation of relatnionship. She was kind and supportive.
 
I felt it's charming. I felt huge desire after reading it because she was very sensual. She addicted me to sex as I believe and she knows this may work after 5 weeks without her and of course it works.

Then she talked about kids. She said a lot about her daughter and me, how she miss me and a lot about her pregnancy how happy she is and how happy her daughter is. I have such confused feelings now. I miss her I miss them all. I feel very sorry it went this way but I see her attitude somehow different now. She wants something and she use manipulation to get it and she touches these things she believes may work. And of course they work. I feel guilty I'm not there. I feel it will be so beautiful no matter how far I went to just come back and start everything again. We have a kids to take care of. She needs care. And I just got crazy scared. Am I just irresponsible with my fears now? 

I feel a bit strange. Sometimes things pop up in my brain and last one was really painful. I remember she made a very strange thing when I left after she kicked me out few times. Gosh I don't understand how I could tolerate that. The promise of life with her was wonderful and amazing.
I discovered in my mind she might cheated me. Day after her birtday we talked a lot. She took a shower and went to meet her old Italian friend who lives in her hometown. She prefers foreigners as partners, father of her first child is also foreigner and I think it can be narcistic because superficially we attract lot of attention in China. And it's much easier for her to manipulate us and at the end easier to give us lot of troubles. She told me she is going to meet him. She went alone to his home for dinner. Month later she said he was wishing to be with her and they know each other for long time. It was few days before she came to me, she got visa just tickets to buy left. Now I think she did it in purpose because of course I was getting crazy to think what is she doing there. Then after few hours without contact she called me back and since that was attacking me for two days I'm not as she wish me to be, she doesn't have topics to talk with me and she might not come. I didn't understand what happened. I was a bit agry she went to him and she just raged at me and her emotions were so strong. Now I understand BPD person will project unpleasant feelings they feel on others. And she was just flooded with some emotions. I felt guilty she's not happy with me as I am and I have to change. Why she felt so much guilt that time? I read a bit recently so I got paranoid. I don't know I don't want to be detective. It just came to my mind suddenly without a reason let's say but I just realized she might cheated me that day. I feel realy bad about it and I wonder what else I need experience to give up this beautiful but unrealistic dream about her. It's just insane I was able to stand it.

I feel like in some dark game and I have to be very careful what I will do. I have to read everything carefully. I may have some paranoia. It looks like that. She said she's sorry I left and so on but in general she is working hard, everyone help her and things getting better and she is more and more happy.

I'm completly lost. I don't know but maybe I should just start to consider myself as person who enables her sickness and that's it? It's very hard to accept something like that when she is carrying my child. And there is so many good things about her. I like the way she is, ah I have learned a lot from her. She is so beautiful. There is so many positive things in her. She said before we discovered she might be pregnant we didn't have a good fully happy day for long time. Somehow it's true but to me she is somehow looking for troubles and makes them from nothing. But maybe it's just me and my problem that Isee things in such a strange way. Sometimes I really don't know what is real and what is not. For me it's a huge thing what happened. For her it's somehow ok. Where is the truth?



 
 

[Harley Quinn]

Hi haba,

I see from your posts a lot of your guilt over what she needs from you.  Have you tried talking to her about your own needs if you were to consider recycling the relationship?  :)id you two ever discuss her intentions to seek out therapy and do work on herself so that you are both working on yourselves to improve the relationship?  I feel you are considering taking a lot on yourself and expecting little from her to change her behaviours.  This concerns me because of your mentions about fearing for your safety.

Contacting her family to talk about things may be a good idea.  They have known her forever and must surely be aware of her emotional state and behaviours.  Perhaps they will be open to you being proactive in seeking their help and support.  If not, you are no worse off so I'd say it could be worth a try.

I'm glad to see that you are reading and learning a lot.  :)o look at others' posts to see what similarities there are and also what has/hasn't worked for others.  It helps to get new perspectives before you make any firm decisions.  What is most important is that you take care of yourself as unless you do this then you will not be able to maintain a role of supportive caretaker to her or the children.  I'm glad that you recognise this.  If you decide to contact the family it would be wise to explain the impact on yourself that being with her has for you, and that you would need to be able to find support services in the area to help you to cope and look after your own well being.  Maybe they can direct you to these services so that you can know in advance what help is available for you if you choose to go.

I wish you luck with this difficult decision.  Remember that raising a child is for life, so it may be painful to consider missing some of the pregnancy (could she visit during this time if you get back together?) but may be a positive thing long term if it means that you are in a better place in yourself to cope as a new father.

If you decide that you wish to let things go between you and this woman because it is the best choice for you, then that makes it the best choice for her also and the child.  No good ever came out of a relationship based solely on obligation and if that is the only reason then it cannot be healthy or last in the long term.

Have you read all of the lessons to the right of the board?  They may help you with handling some of the fears and worries that you have, and put things into perspective a little.  Dealing with a pwBPD certainly can create paranoia, especially when we begin to really dig into the behaviours and the potential causes for these.  Sometimes it helps to take a step back and look at things in a structured way so there can be some clarity.  I hope this helps.

Let us know how things go.

Love and light x

[Haba]

I see from your posts a lot of your guilt over what she needs from you.  Have you tried talking to her about your own needs if you were to consider recycling the relationship?  :)id you two ever discuss her intentions to seek out therapy and do work on herself so that you are both working on yourselves to improve the relationship?  I feel you are considering taking a lot on yourself and expecting little from her to change her behaviours.  This concerns me because of your mentions about fearing for your safety.

Thank you for your reply. It's really helpful and allows me to come out a bit from my shells.

Yes, I see a lot where I could do better for her but don't have much hope she will do something for me. She did a lot but at the end when we fall apart it looks like she was so good for me and I'm just a ass who used her and left.
I don't come out with my needs. It's all about her. And of course this way it couldn't end up different way. I have to work on it.
She denies any wrongdoings. She knows who is she (awaken). And she doesn't take any responsibilty of her actions. She did it because I did that and so on. It's completly pointless to go this way. I feel only worse when I see she even blames me for her abusive behaviour. But yes I should talk about my needs with her and about therapy. We need two to make it better not just me focusing entirely on this.

Contacting her family to talk about things may be a good idea.

Thanks for that. I was thinking it's just crazy idea which only can make things worse but true - it can't be worse than it is and who knows where it will take us. If it ain't going to work at least I had tried.

I wish you luck with this difficult decision.  Remember that raising a child is for life, so it may be painful to consider missing some of the pregnancy (could she visit during this time if you get back together?) but may be a positive thing long term if it means that you are in a better place in yourself to cope as a new father.

No good ever came out of a relationship based solely on obligation

I didn't take any decision.  Well, I told her about my doubts and fears but somehow I'm going more in direction to try to reconcile our relationship than opposite. I feel a bit helpless sometimes and I'm very carefull but we have established limited contact (emails) and I even received two photos from her daughter's birthday party. It looks like she wish us to start again but she is also very carefull. I don't want to rush things and do it without proper preparations. I wish to be with her but for what I have learned so far I see how challenging it is and I see the cards I have. This is why I'm in pain. I don't want to let it go but I see my wish and my love may be not enough. I'm also very confused about myself. My mind says: “you see what you had, are you sure you wanna more?”. My heart says there is always a hope.

It's a huge pressure so I don't do much to let her feel I care. I would even say I do too little. I don't know why. I'm scared, I don't feel good about myself, I'm loosing hope? We start slowly I woud say, different than before.

You see I was thinking to ask her to come over and see what can we do when the season is finished and she will be free in November or earlier (still it's a lot of time) and I will have a time to improve and prepare better myself but somehow I'm blocked to propose her these ideas so far. During this time we could also see what can she do on her side but I'm not very optimistic (she denies she has BPD). I could have safe enviroment to practice things I have learned here. It's somehow like I'm sabotaging my hopes to reconcile this relationship. I feel she won't be interested. Somehow I choose this direction which I don't like. It's like I'm making things worse but wishing to have them better. This is also how I feel about the way I was dealing with problems I encountered in this relationship. I didn't make it better but worse.

I don't think it's any obligation to be with her. I never thought this way. Well I'm under pressure of doing "the right things" but I didn't so far. It's not an obligation I feel. It's about what I want even if it seems to be just insane because it brought me lot of pain. Still there was lot of good things and it's so difficult to accept I won't see her and my child. But I know abuse is not a love. And we have to stop it or at least limit it to some acceptable level so it won't affect us and children. I know I can grow and develop the needed skills to be with pwBPD. Maybe I shouldn't be so confident but I really believe so. It's the part I'm very optimistic. I learned quite a lot already when I worked as a psychologist. It doesn't mean anything as we can see but it's good attitude I think. It's just irony what I'm facing now. But I'm getting to understand why life brings me this and I skipped my own therapy long time ago. I feel there is lot of sense in it. I truly believe I could grow with her if we both would start work on ourselves. Just conditions we have discourage me. And yes I'm scared of lack of balance and support. I'm very dependent on her over there and the story with her employees giving her crazy ideas about cutting my legs don't make me calm. This is pain. It caught me in the worst possible moment and worst possible place to make it work.

Dealing with a pwBPD certainly can create paranoia...

Yes maybe all these fears are in my mind. Some of my friends also exaggerate them. Not many poeple actually make me calm and support my hopes. This is what I can only find here. But sometimes it's hard when you ask me to think if I can do this or that and I see it's so hard. It's like I'm in my lowest point ever and facing the most difficult thing I have ever faced. My responsibilty and fears stops me to act fast as I don't want to make wrong choices and create more destruction on both sides. I'm scared. Thanks God I'm more relaxed about safety now. I crossed few borders and I was so scared they will arrest me on the way (you have a clue what was in my mind recently). That's why I stayed so long in Cambodia instead of looking for help. Gosh...

Thank you so much. It's a lot of hope for me in your message Harley Quinn. I have to start to check what is possible what is not. And maybe I should trust myself more about ideas that come to my mind. I read everything what is on the right side of the board. I'm kinda know we are slowly getting closer to each other but we are very careful. I have some doubts of course but not about this if I wish to be with her or not. I wish just to put it into reality can be hard as I know how responsible I have to be and prepare first. Still not sure what's in her mind. She doesn't say much.

 

[Haba]

I'm back home. On Tuesday going to psychotherapist. This is the first thing I decided to do when I arrived. I was waiting so long.

Without her I still wouldn't know so much and I always appreciated I can learn through all this pain. Sometimes I have enough but my deepest personal issues I wasn't aware of I understood thanks to her.
I'm facing myself for the first time in my life this way. I'm taking repsonsibilty of puting myself in this situation and I can finally see my own problems that lead me to this point of my life.
I see my personality and emotional problems that drove me here. Her BPD is a problem but it's me who created my experience. I put myself in this role of victim. First few times when she disrespected me I should wish her good luck and go my way. I didn't respect myself, I allowed her to cross my boundries.

At the begining I focused entirely on her and on BPD. But now I think more about my issues because this is why I'm here. Her BPD can't be excuse. It's also my responsibilty of what we created. My codependency made her even worse. Of course she shouldn't do things she did and her BPD can't be excuse for that neither. I can only do something with my stuff.

I don't want to make the same mistakes again. I still have some doubts and fears. It's not I can control everything. We will see what she will do.

I see our story in a bit different light now. I'm asking myself why I want to be with her if there was so much pain so far. Somehow I believed what I have experienced as a child is far behind me and doesn't have any influence on me. Wrong. We are like two wounded people who tried to heal each other instead of going to hospital to get real help.

It looks like without child I wouldn't make so much effort to try to learn about it all. I would just join this group of people who run away and blame them for all. Sometimes I'm getting better and starting to think I will cope with this experience. It happened to me because I'm able to handle it and at the end I will be fine. Sometimes I feel completly opposite. I just can't imagine I won't be able to see this child growing up. It would be really painful. I would like to be with her too. Of course I don't want so much pain. She is smart, charming, sensual, beautiful, full of energy, wise, pretty amazing person. She is so strong. She pushes things when I'm just crying. And it's her who I left alone pregnant. Maybe I didn't have choice. She did really crazy thing. I'm not sure what would happen with all of us if I would stay there in this state of mind I was that time.

She told me she is more and more relaxed. Got new dog. She said she was very sad I left but now she is getting better and she is very happy she will have another child. Her daughter whom I just love to see happy is waiting for her “brother” to come and asked when I will be back. She accepts things they are. She believes no matter what it will be good. She still hopes we can be back together but it will be also ok if not and she understands it's very hard for me to be with her. Not sure if I can believe in everything but it definitely looks like she will give a birth to our child.

I'm looking for sense in it. I want to move on. I know it wasn't good for me to be with her. It was like drinking alcohol. You might be high and happy but the price to pay is right there. The more you want it the more pain you will get. For that reason maybe I should go. On the other hand I really like her as a person. She really impress me, she really teach me something. The lesson is costly.  Giving up is somehow really hard for me and makes me completly numb and not happy. The hope changes everything. We will see if it is not just illusion. I know how much work I have to make and still we don't know if it will be possible. Time will tell where we can go. She might be not interested in me anymore. As I know the sickness she may already tried to see what can she do in other places. I have to accept anything life will bring me. I'm scared it might be just a moment of weakness and I shouldn't have any hope and walk away. The most important thing is to learn more, be patient and try to create better conditions to move forward. I have to check what will be possible to do and adopt to reality and not to follow my naive wishes anymore.

[heartandwhole]

Haba,

It sounds like this relationship has really been a catalyst for you to look at yourself and what you want and need. I hear lots of reflection in your posts, and I think that is the best thing you can do right now. This is very hard work, but you are taking the steps that will help you with your decision.

How regularly are you talking to your girlfriend?

heartandwhole

[Haba]

It sounds like this relationship has really been a catalyst for you to look at yourself and what you want and need. I hear lots of reflection in your posts, and I think that is the best thing you can do right now. This is very hard work, but you are taking the steps that will help you with your decision.

Thank you heartandwhole. I hope it will help. Anyway it will be good to improve myself as I understand better "why things happened to me".

How regularly are you talking to your girlfriend?

Well we have just started. It's not regularly. She still keeps her phone blocked for me. It's me who tries to establish contact and move from this point. It looks like she wouldn't try to talk with me herself.

I sent her few short emails before and I got very warm answer with some doubts, but promising for reconcilation our relationship. She said she miss me and still believe in us.

Then I sent few messages again plus wished her daughter happy birthday and got short message back with two pictures from birhtday's party without any answer to my messages regarding us.

Finally two days ago I wrote her message about our issues (BPD and my stuff), what can we do if we want to do something, full of hope and love but with some fears and doubts, about my condition (depression) and wish to improve situation between us, a bit about therapy. Lot of nice warm words about her, but also about her abusive behaviour and its impact on me. I said there is hope but of course it's really difficult to make it work if it's BPD as I believe (I asked maybe she could check if it is the case, but didn't push her at all, as it can be only her choice). I wrote about my fears and obstacles I'm facing in this situation. And that I need to get better myself first and do lot of work to make it good, as I'm very worried we can fail without good plan and preparations but I really wish to go further. I asked how she feels and what she wish and if she has some ideas how we can improve situation if she's willing to do so and tried to explain from my perspective why we are at this point but without blaming anybody for anything. I asked her to see this situation as a consequence of our actions. I said warm things about our child and my wish to be close to it.

She replied this morning. She is full of doubts if I can make it. She is not sure if she wants to be with me, if I can make her happy, if we can have a good life for the way I'm and I react. She said maybe better if everything will be just like it is, it's very hard for her to love me as I am, she is afraid I won't be good father, I'm sick, I should work on myself so the baby won't have father who is looser. She has more stable and peacful life without me. She said she have some issues but it's not so bad as I said (I didn't blame her for anything, I tried to talk about sickness but insisted it's nobody's fault but responsibility and I told her I won't push her anywhere and also I won't talk about BPD anymore, she can do whatever she thinks is right). She mentioned we both have to change but almost all message is about me wrong, irresponsible, who has to work and change and do something real and don't stay in emotions. For the first time she said she is sorry for the damage she caused. She tried very hard to be with me and it was wrong because I can't give her what she needs. She believed I will change but it was wrong. She is ready to rise the baby herself. If I would be diffeerent then she would love me more. She talked a little about father of her daughter. I felt a bit like she really regrets she is not with him but maybe I'm wrong. She thinks I'm good person and I was very nice for them but it's not enough. I'm weak and don't understand many things. She wished to make it good with me but the reality is different. She will have good life and she won't give up. She is amazing woman and only amazing man can be with her. She hopes I will recover and start good life no matter what.  At the end she said if I want to be with her and face problems together in life we can try.

I have impression she is angry, makes me responsible for the situation and shows me it won't be easy to “get” her back but it's possible and she would like to try. I guess she believes all this what we have is beacuse of my problems and weakness and she might have some problems but not much.

I don't want to reply straight away. I will give her and myself some time. I would like to make her calm but on the other hand if it's just all my fault then where we can go.

She has to be angry for the things I did and I can understand it. But she doesn't think much about my needs and how I feel. For her I'm sick and should give up staying in emotions.

I think I will try to prepare answer using tools I can find here on the site and will also try to talk about my needs and what she thinks about her responsibilty to improve our relationship.

I remember it was very similar when I tried to bring us back together last time. I got pretty angry message back. She was blaming me for everything and didn't give clear answer what we gonna do. She didn't have answer but it looked like it's the end. Few weeks later when I tried to confirm it's the end she was again full of love. This message is pretty much like that one from few months ago. It leaves doors open but somehow in very bitter way. It looks like she makes me feel it won't be that easy to start again. I think this time is different for me but not for her. I will wait and won't push her. This relationship was a bit like that, everything about her. Not much about me. She got used to to it and now I'm afraid it might be a bit difficult to talk with her about my needs and set her some boundries.

[Haba]

I don't know what is going on. I'm scared I'm loosing her. I might loose her forever. I see it very dark. I'm very despareted and scared. Whatever I do the results are not as I wished. It looks like no matter how much I'm trying to understand and learn about this situation and what is BPD I get outcomes I'm afraid most. What I do wrong? Should I just tell her I love her and I was all the time wrong or just couldn't act different and it's the only way to get her back? But where it will take us? I wish to be with her but I don't think to tell her something like this will be good in larger perspective. She will just learn she can do whatever and she is right. I'm afraid it won't help anyone but will cause more harm in the future and this is the last thing I wish to happen. But maybe I should start from it and then try to improve things between us...


I didn't reply yet for a message that I think didn't have any other aim but to push me away more and scared me she might just leave. I received another very short messages. First she asked me when she could get pregnant because she is going to hospital for check. Later she wrote me we should talk, what I want to do and I should be there with her. 

I said of course I want to talk and it doesn't matter what I want but what I can and what I have to do (told her I have to prepare for fatherhood and stand up) and asked her why does she think I'm not there. I asked what the doctor said and what can I help. Got message back “Hehe ... .Very cold guy”. I tried to be empathic and thought she doesn't feel good. I wrote I can imagine how she feels, I'm worried about her she might not feeling good now because her parents left (in the past she had some crises few times when she was there on her own). I told her also about my anger to people who gave her horrible idea to hurt me and also about our tragedy (abortion), how traumatic it was and that it has to be still so painful for her (I talked about it with therapist).

She raged at me. She didn't focus on these things that I touched at all. She was angry I think she is sad and I'm so proud of myself to think I can help her. I didn't say anything I can make her feel better. I was even worried I can make her worse. She was very angry and hostile. She replied she is so happy there without me. She doesn't want to see me again. She induced lot of blame in me that I don't care about the child at all and that was the only reason she asked me to be there and she doesn't want to be with me anymore and also doesn't want me to do anything for the child. She never asked me about anything before and just told me she doesn't even know about my blood Rh type and it's needed and said to doctor I will never come back so they need to make some additional tests. She said she won't forgive me what I did and I'm sick. Asked me to forget about child and about her. I'm afraid she will go into no contact with emails too so I won't have any chance to talk with her anymore.

I replied fast I didn't know what she needed and I'm sorry I didn't understood and I wish to improve the situation. Send her my blood type information and told her I want to help but I have to know what she needs me to do.

But truly I can see she doesn't let me to improve anything but just push me away and away and makes me a monster. Don't try to make anything better but cut me off more and more. I'm losing hope. 
She doesn't want to talk. I guess she won't reply back anymore. I don't know but maybe I have to let her do whatever she wants to do and if she wants to go just let her go. I feel it's nothing I can do. It's against what I wish but how can I stop her?

I'm thinking what to do but more and more I feel I have to accept her choice even if it devastates me. I want to tell her I want to cooperate and do everything I can for the baby (my therapist said it's the only healthy thing in this story even if she asked me if I'm really sure she's still pregnant) but I can't force her to improve and heal our relationship if she pushes me away and it's more and more clear she doesn't want anything but end it up. Well maybe she tries to manipulate me and make me feel I'm loosing her so I have to act the way she wants. And she wants me to come asap. 

I'm completely broken. Should I respect her choice? She said few nice things and gave me hope at the begining when we started to talk via emails (ah emails are not so good there is lot of misunderstandings this way) but was never consequent: she attacks me, blames me, disrespects me, tries to hurt me. She said she feels great, she has fantastic people around, everything is wonderful, life is good, it's just me who brings pain and she won't let me to ruin it and that's it. She used strong words. I feel hopeless. 

My therapist told me it's not time to come back there yet. She even suggested I might have some self destructive tendencies when I told her the situation and my hope to reconcile this relationship.

I didn't write yet to her parents. I was waiting for meeting with therapist. She was shocked when I told her the story with parents: for the first time they took us to hospital just two hours after I said I can't stand anymore what she is doing, that she is talking all the time about abortion and pushes me to do it and again they tried to push her straight away to make another abortion when she just called them and told them about the situation we had last time. It looked to me like my therapist shares my fear her father can have psychopathic traits. What can I write them if it's the case? I feel like it's just a war and there is nothing I can do. I can only loose. I have no choice even if I don't want to fight. I wish to address the safety issues and work on relationship and rise up kids together and this is what I'm talking about with her. I feel I don't have any choice but to give up or just put myself back into victim role and accept it but it might be too late even for that. I used to be quite optimistic person but it's very hard to find hope and optimism in this situation.

It looks like she won't even let me see the baby and there might be always safety issue between us if we will end up like that. 

I don't know what to do. She did crazy thing that put me down that scared me so much. I don't know I lost sense of reality and maybe I overreacted. But I was already completely out of mind after what I have experienced with her for that month when I came last time to her. Then she cut me off. I tried to improve, talked with her about safety and it seemed to go in good direction but last messages from her shows it's even worse. I don't know why she pushes so much in this moment. I don't feel I can go there at all. It seems it can be dangerous. When I remind myself how she explained why she hit me (because I asked her just before to make abortion what never ever happened) I'm afraid if this is what all the people there heard I can't expect anything from her and them but hate and vengeance. It's just insane but it looks like I can't do anything. I feel completely entrapped. I just don't see love there but some kind of dark game. It's so sad. I'm again so paranoid but it really looks like there is just hate on the other side and I can only protect myself. Nothing else. I'm sure she is pregnant and she wants to rise this child. I don't understand why she doesn't want to make things better between us. Maybe it's just true I'm a crazy cold animal who abandoned her. This is what she seems to believe in and what can I do? It's her reality. Should I go there to prove I'm not? I doubt I can. Stay here? I'll be animal. I'm starting to feel like it's something very wrong with me and it's me who is acting like psychopath.

I can't understand and can't believe it. I want to write message to her parents but I don't know what to write. It sounds like I can only write them suggestions for the future for what I believe she will need and I'm very sorry but she really doesn't allow me to do anything better and her actions have really bad impact on my psyche and I can't respond as I wish. I'm really low now. I came to this point to discover what we all need but I can't do anything because I'm completely alone and have to actually fix myself first. It looks like I don't have a choice not to fail. Actually I failed long time ago. At the very beginning and my wish to try to make it work no matter what was completely wrong and seems to be the worst decision so far in my life and I'm fully responsible for it and have to face myself for this. I didn't go to therapy before, even when I was so close and I have started just now but it might be too late. I screw it up.

She makes me a monster who doesn't care about the child. I'm afraid she won't reply me via email anymore. She said something similar when she has blocked her phone contact and never reversed it. And she is pregnant with me (!). I just can't believe it who I'm. A guy who leaves amazing wonderful woman when she's pregnant? Is it really me?

I know I'm responsible for lot of things here. I tolerated her abuse but I can't believe I end up like this. I woke up too late. I don't know what else I can do. Do I have to grow up finally and accept what it is? What else can I do to stop this destruction? Maybe I'm wrong it's destruction and it will be the healthiest thing we can do - split up. I'm terrified because I may not see my baby and I still care so much about her. I wonder if in this situation I should be very careful or I should have more understanding and trust to her?

My first reaction when I got these last two messages from her was to say I agree, I accept, let's move on. I felt hurt. But I don't want that. Maybe I won't reply at all and just think and let her be happy as she is. I will try to understand better all these things. I go a bit crazy.

I also started to think about one thing. I have believed to this point all her behavior is caused by BPD. Just recently I read it's not exactly true and abusive behavior might be her choice. I'm a bit cofused about it because it seems like it's a norm for pwBPD to use emotional violence and often physical too. I don't know what to think about it. I know I shouldn't tolerate abuse but is it really true they have a choice in this regard? And what implications it has? How I should address this question? It's very hard to accept it it's her choice to be abusive. Do pwBPD really control this? I feel like what I experience now is caused byt long expousure to emotional abuse and this is the reason why I don't feel everything is fine with me. Also the situation is just overhelming.

 I'm very confused. It can be it's just the end as she wrote and I have to accept it. I mean she is ready to be on her own and doesn't want me to be in her life anymore and both of us has to move on. Another idea that came to my mind is that I'm facing extinction burst as no matter what I say I actually set a boundries and don't allow her to threatend me the way she did and she pushes now a lot to get something she believes she will get the way she used to get. Should I just wait to see what will come? Am I naive and it's just the end because she won't recognize she is also responsible for this situation so she won't change anything and it's just sickness or her choice? Well the result will be the same. If I'm so guilty in her eyes then there is nothing I can do except to sacrifice myself and this way we will end up as we did last time?

I feel I'm really tired of all this. Recently I felt a bit better and started to focus on other things but she keeps me alert and I can't focus on other things easily. I have lot of doubts now. I was thinking we need time. Of course I felt lot of pressure I'm not there but I was thinking we have to find some answers for problems we face and we never did. I never actually felt I can trust her for what she says. I think I need time and some good attitude to my person not just hate and it's a lot of hate. She said she won't forgive me what I did and I'm a loser and she doesn't wish to be with anyone like me. It's really painful and somehow I feel I shouldn't tolerate it but how to bring us together with all this?

My therapist makes me calm and she doesn't say there is no hope for us but for last messages from this beautiful girl I'm afraid it can be that she is gone. She and the baby. 

[Haba]

Good God. She didn't write me the truth. I just received another email form her. And everything is clear now. She is not happy at all. She just said life is extremly hard for her. I think her parents push her to have another abortion and left her without support when they have seen she resists. She feels as I thought. All what she wrote was to break me down and bring me there the way I would never understand and accept.

Why did she wait so long? She trusted me I won't leave her alone even when she was saying completly opposite. I promised her to help with the baby. I told her I wish to be with her but we have such problems and this is so difficult to make it real.

She asked me to give her the answer as soon as possible.

Yesterday her life was amazing and so much better without me and she doesn't want to be with me anymore and she will rise this baby alone.

Today is different. She still blames me for all. She says I don't have a heart. I broke her life. I don't have morals. I'm real evil. I'm hurting her and I should just stop and not make her worse anymore. One thing haven't changed. She still hates me.

I'm also responsible for this situation. It's so late.

It's so hard. I wish to be with her. She never ever took any responsibility for her actions. Well I should know she can't. There is hope but it's very limited. I have to work and improve. We have to build a support system. We need professional help and lot of time and hard work. I told my therapist I'm 100% sure she will give birth to this child. What should I do?

Be quiet. I can't

Repeat what I was saying all this time.

I feel no matter what I will do it will end up not good.

I can't tell her I will be right there with her very soon.

We can try but I have to be honest and say everything what I just said before. There is hope but we have to work. I want to this work anyway. I feel now I was just blind and maybe I'm just scared codependent and make her only worse and only prolonged all this. How come I believed? 

It's so hard... .   

[heartandwhole]

Hi Haba,

This IS hard. I'm sorry.   You are going through all the possibilities in your mind, which is normal. I'm very glad to hear that you have been seeing a therapist. That really helped me, too.

Have you been reading about communication skills here on the site? They can help a lot. When you can't communicate face to face, it can be difficult to understand each other, so practicing using the skills can help. And if your girlfriend has BPD, it is especially important to practice these skills, as a pwBPD is usually very sensitive to how things are said.

Check out this workshop:Validation Skills

Understandably, you have a lot of thoughts going around in your mind at this time. It can help to find the center between your emotional mind and logical mind:

Triggering and Mindfulness and Wise Mind

Is it possible for you two to Skype or call each other?

Hang in there. I know things feel very confused right now. Sometimes it takes longer to see the best course of action than is comfortable. We're here for you.

heartandwhole

[Haba]

Thank you heartandwhole for support. It's really helpful in this difficult time.

Have you been reading about communication skills here on the site? They can help a lot.

Check out this workshop:Validation Skills

Yes I've checked this one and many others. I'm trying my best however it takes time to master them.

Understandably, you have a lot of thoughts going around in your mind at this time. It can help to find the center between your emotional mind and logical mind:

Triggering and Mindfulness and Wise Mind

This one seemsto be even more difficult especially in such emotions I'm having now. However I'm trying my best. I meditate regularly and I can see it helps a lot.

Is it possible for you two to Skype or call each other?

Yes, we are going to talk via phone this evening. I'm a bit scared. We will see where it will take us. I'm worried she wants to put me in situation where I will have to decide about the fate of this pregnancy. I know it's only her choice but she may try put the whole repsonsibility on me. This will be hard.

Thank you for warm and wise words

[heartandwhole]

Haba,

You're right: it takes time to master these communication skills. I'm definitely still practicing myself !

This phone call with your girlfriend will be an opportunity to practice what you are learning. 

Let us know how it goes.

heartandwhole

[Haba]

Haba,

You're right: it takes time to master these communication skills. I'm definitely still practicing myself !

This phone call with your girlfriend will be an opportunity to practice what you are learning. 

We had a long talk. I can't believe it but it was nearly six hours call and I don't even know what we were talking about.

Perhaps I wasn't very elastic so she told me she feels like talking with therapist and wasn't happy with me guessing her emotions and so on. We were postponing our talk for few days. She's quite busy. Then we talked. I give her lot of space. It was a bit frustrating experience for both of us as there is still little of understanding. She still blames me for all bad things and is wishing me to be back asap to help her during pregnancy and doesn't understand at all why I left. She says she accepts I'm this kind of person and doesn't have much hope for us but expects I will come and help her with the baby.

I feel better we talked this way. It's much easier to avoid misunderstandigns even if it's still not easy.
I'm calmer about the baby. It was just in my head. She doesn't want to make abortion. I feel huge relief.

I'm trying to find the best solution for both of us and for a while I was full of hope that I found one. I feel there is no way to build really good stable support system in China, to become more than just a victim and enabler in our relationship. When I started my therapy I talked with my former boss (psychotherapist) and he proposed me work. I guess it wouldn't be very hard to find other jobs in this area. I have a good reputation here. I have friends and family and most importantly acces to therapy for me and for her if she will change her mind one day. I imagined our life here and I belived it's possible to make it. I can see how much I could grow myself here. I was even thinking about psychoterapy school. I didn't think about this before as I thought I will be doing something else. Next year I can start PhD studdies (I talked already with my former Professor about it as this one I was considering as a good thing in any circumstances). Seems like it would be really much easier to cope with our struggles here. Her daughter with whom I believe I have a good contact is only 4 years old so sh'e able to learn language fast. We could move to bigger city where she could study in English so we could move somewhere else one day. I guess there will be lot of Chinese people around. She even has some family in Prague which is only 150 km away. I think she could have lot of opportunities to grow here as well. But I know it has to be her choice and she has to see it as an opportunity for her.

She told me she is interested to move to Europe in a 3 years. I started to think I could build here a good conditions for our family (unfortunatelly not straight away because I was away for long time but should get better and better) and it would be much easier to become emotional leader in her life and save our relationship and have my baby with me. I was almost happy to find out it can be easier than I thought.

I also heard from my therapist that I'm actually a “rock”. I'm able to stand a lot and many people would give up already. More hope arised in me.

But the doubts came too. First of all I even don't know if it is good idea for me to start psychotherapy school as I'm having very unstable and chaotic life myself. I was supported before by my colegues (experienced therapists) and encouraged to go this path but it was 3 years ago. I can say I travelled for last 3 years (including time spent with her in China). I screwed up my personal life a lot as you can tell. Not sure if this path is still available for me as I know how much my situation can affect this kind of work.

On the other hand I feel it would be good direction for myself. I don't have much time. All schools start very soon. Some next month. And when I wonder what else I can do I can see few things but they don't seem to be very good to make things better for me and for the familly's life (tour leader who spends nearly half year out of home is not a good option even if I was thinking I will work this way in China and it seemed to be ok for her). I have other ideas but hmm nothing that gives me so much hope and nothing that would make me feel satisfied for what I'm doing.

The problem is she finshed her Spa in China. She worked very hard to make it happened.

I don't want to manipulate her and I feel she can read my intensions this way. I don't want to give her any ultimatum. Nothing like that. She said once she would like to open something similar in my place but it was at the begining of our relationship perhaps in idealisation stage. She changes her mind very fast. One day she talkes about Australia, next day about Denmark and another about Finland. It all sounds very unrealistic to me but I know she can do it and go this or another way.

I'm afraid I will fail in China. Sometimes I think opposite but I don't have much hope. She's not willing to go for therapy. I made research and there is not easy acces to  proffesional help. Most of the time we live in small town (for Chinese standards) where nobody even heard about psychotherapy and there is no chance for this kind of help at all.

In place where her parents live there are some options. I couldn't find anything in English but I found in Chinese. I read a post from one man who has a Chinese wife with BPD and was living in China and he struggled a lot to find help even for himself. He doesn't speak Chinese just like me. But the biggest problem there will be something different: nobody is interested in it at all except me.

I don't think I can build there support system easily. I feel completly hopeless about idea to go there and try again. I don't even think I will be safe there and I'm on my own. I put myself in really difficult situation. I  don't want to fail and hurt myself, her and our families. And I'm afraid this is what gonna happen there. I know it's like putting myself into fire to continue our journey together but I know what I'm fighting for and it's worth it for me. I just need to make it possible and don't close my eyes and wait for what life will bring us there because I did it few times and results were always not good.

Here things also don't look so bright but give me much more hope and confidence about myself. I have to make decisions soon. I want to talk with her. She's very busy. I hope I will have a chance soon. I don't want to just fail again. I know it can  be even worse and I can lost myself completly. I'm getting out from depression and starting to look around. I sleep better. Meeting friends. I'm very lucky with my therapist as I can see how much she's willing to help me (for her it's obvious that we both need therapy) and I've just found out (when I was looking for shool for myself) she is even a supervisor of psychotherapy and work in psychotherapy school (I didn't know it before).

I can see it. She wants to leave her place and go to her parents in 3 months and prepare for birth. I would like to propose her marriage here to make her stay here possible. The hardest thing is I have to start everything from the scratch and it's really difficult. I guess it will take me some time to fully stand up and be able to support her and children, so far everything dependent on her. My work was to focus on children and home and do my things as I wish but I know those were just words. She had „an excellent” plan for us but it can't work. I know how much I have to change to push it in good direction. I feel I can do it but it caught me in the worst possible moment. I was living in a fog in an illusion for long time. And I can see now the loses in my life. I caused lot of destruction in her life too. And she'e alone now. It's good we started to talk. Gosh it seems to be so hard to make it good.

[Haba]

Ok, we are after long talk. It's hard to tell what gonna happened. She gave me a lot of hope and at the same time told me it not gonna work. She is actually very surprised I still want to be with her. She said she feels very nice about it. But she doesn't think she will be able to forgive me I left her during her pregnancy. She told me we have some reality obstacles to make it as I wish but she will consider it and she needs time for that. I was afraid and very stressed she won't be interested at all so it's a huge relief.

I can see I have to work on myself a lot. I experience lot of anxiety and it doesn't help. It's like sabotaging myself. I got DBT skills workbook and started some work on it myself. Hopefully therapy also will help me to find solutions for that issue. It doesn't allow me to grow and affects my response to difficult situations I face.

I have to also prepare for demands of this relationship. Learn more here (bpdfamily, it's a lot to learn) and similar sites, read books, avoid sites that present pwBPD as demons (so many of them and I can see how much they have scared me) and most importantly focus on myself, grow, preserve my emotional health. I hope I will cope better with all challenges and one day she will go for her own treatment. It's so encouraging to see how easy access we have to proffesional help here, how close we are to make it work.

I know it won't be easy at all but finally I see some light.
Hopefully soon I will move the topic to the "How to improve realtionship" section. That would be nice.

Sometimes I still think why I choose so. Is it really healthy response? Sometimes I'm scared how it gonna be. Will I manage? These doubts come to me everyday.

[heartandwhole]

I can see I have to work on myself a lot. I experience lot of anxiety and it doesn't help. It's like sabotaging myself. I got DBT skills workbook and started some work on it myself. Hopefully therapy also will help me to find solutions for that issue. It doesn't allow me to grow and affects my response to difficult situations I face.

Haba, I commend you for taking the reins of your emotional life and doing something about what you've found. That takes courage.  I think working on DBT skills and therapy are excellent ways to help you. As you change, so will your relationship. There are no guarantees that things will work out between you, but by working on your issues (indeed, the only thing you can control), you are doing something good for yourself and your child.

The doubts are normal. We've all got them. I think taking small steps, reflecting, and taking care of yourself are good ways to move forward.

Well done.    Keep posting. Keep learning. We are here for you.

heartandwhole

[Haba]

I think working on DBT skills and therapy are excellent ways to help you. As you change, so will your relationship. There are no guarantees that things will work out between you, but by working on your issues (indeed, the only thing you can control), you are doing something good for yourself and your child.

The doubts are normal. We've all got them. I think taking small steps, reflecting, and taking care of yourself are good ways to move forward.

heartandwhole

Thank you heartandwhole

Yes I feel exactly this way. I know there is still a lot to do and it will take some time to make things good but I feel I'm on the right path even if some doubts come sometimes. DBT and therapy are changing a lot my daily life experience.

On the other hand I'm not sure if I'm still not just blind about our relationship. She hates me so much. Blames me for everything. I have hope but it's not easy.

Since I offered her to come here and try to make things better between us I was dealing with very confusing information from her. Lot of criticizm and anger, break ups, threats and so on mixed with some seeds of hope. I was patient but I heard so many times it's not going to work so I started to believe it can be really hard. One morning she wrote me message: I should forget she will come here. Then sudennly change her mind in the afternoon and said she will come. I was happy. At the same time scared if I will manage. She talked with her parents and said they were against but at the end accepted her choice. She said they were making some jokes If I'm not scared she will kill me. She also talked with her daughter about school here, she needs to learn the language and so on. It didn't look bad in general.

Then she said something really shocking. She asked me if she can leave me with the child. I asked for how long. She said half year. She explained she wants to come back to China and work on her hotel during the season. I told her I think it will be best if she can be all the time around the kid for at least first year of its life. She wasn't happy to hear that but she said ok.

It took me a while to get scared but eventually the red flag appeared. I can't believe it but it looks like her intencion was to leave this kid with me for half year right after its birth. There was no other option for her.

Today I asked if she planned to leave also her daughter. It took her a while to answer. She got angry and said yes but I saw it wasn't easy for her to say so. Then she said we can go to China all together. I said I'm verry worried about kids. She said she planned to do exactly what I did. I abandond her so she can do the same. I told her it's not the case and asked her if she wants to do so in revange. She got very angry and said we can forget about it and she won't leave with me kids. She said I just want to make her upset. I said again I'm worried about kids, especially about the baby, it's too early to leave 1-2 months old baby just like that but she hung up the call and doesn't answer anymore.
 
I don't know anything for sure but maybe she doesn't want to rise this baby. I didn't think much but if this is the case I can do it myself. It's gonna be hard - it will be such a little baby and without mum. It's dark scenario but who knows what is her intention. I think I should also prepare for it. Maybe I'm just paranoid but when I talked with my friend about it who worked with pwBPD she told me I should be carefull because it's not common for any mother to think this way (to leave the baby soon after birth because of work). My girlfriend also said she is not going to meet my family and my friends.

I wish to know the truth. If she has a plan to leave this baby with me then I have to be ready for that.

Maybe I should talk with her honestly. I know how sensitve this issue is so I wonder how can I talk with her about it. If she doesn't want to be with me and she doesn't want to rise this baby then I would like to know this ahead. I don't know if I should marry her in this case. 

How to deal with this situation?

Should I be open and honest with her about my fears? Make with her agreement about it? Ask directly what's her plan? She never asked me if I will manage with this child, what I'm going to do while I'm in work and so on.

I have to set her some healthy boundries in this situation and in general.

Should I just stick to the plan and try to be her emotional leader no matter what and see what gonna happen? The problem is she can't really stay here easily if I won't marry her. Can be even hard with the birth. On the other hand it's not easy to get divorce if she will decide not to come back.

Maybe I'm paranoid but it's unbeliveble for me. She wants to leave this kid right after the birth. I think she would never ever do so to her first child.

I'm a bit worried. I understand how she has to feel right now without me there but I'm somehow sure what would happen if I would come back. I guess she would be happy just for one day and then not anymore. I can see how much she hates me for what I did. It's really difficult to deal with this situation.

I'm trying my best to validate her emotions and be emphatic but it looks like if she won't go for her therapy (she said she won't) it's gonna be hard. I think here I'm safe. But China scares me. Without any support it can be real disaster to go there.

[Haba]

I'm getting a bit worried about myself. Since we really consider to be together again I can see I'm getting to feel worse. I'm doing less for myself. This relationship vacuums too much of my attention and energy and make me feel very strange, out of order and even sick. I definetlly haven't experienced so much anxiety before and wasn't so obssesed never ever in my life with anything. I feel kind of lack of integration of myself. I'm paranoid. I have huge difficulties to make decisions. I feel I got stuck. It affects me and my relationships with others. Everyone is tired of me and my issues. I can't talk about something different but my problems with my girlfriend. I'm trying my best but still it's not easy.

Sometimes I feel I'm getting better but sometimes I feel it's completly opposite and everything goes really bad, I feel confused and lost. I thought few times it would be so much easier without her in my life. It would be so good to feel sane, happy, have control over my life and go wherever I wish and not question it. Feel safe and stable and be able to predict what gonna happen tomorrow and so on. 

On the other hand I remember when we talked for the first time since I left. I was so happy, I was so excited. I felt a bit like I just met her first time in my life and she's so fantastic. I'm so confused. I feel sometimes like I'm having my own BPD.

I know I met her for a reason. I have my own issues that I can see better thanks to her. She is not a bad person. There is lot of things I really like about her but I can see how this relationship drains me from energy and sanity. I'm a shadow of myself and I'm getting to be tired of it. I want to be with her, I want to be with my child, I feel we can work out our issues and make our life together a good experience but on the other hand I'm exhausted. My mental condition is very poor. Sometimes I really have no ideas how I will cope with all this in such a state. I know I don't have a choice but it might be really hard. I'm worried, I see things so dark. I was always optimist. I was travelling for last three years all over the world. I had tones of amazing adventures. Before that I've worked happily, enjoyed mountains I have here, had so many interests,  wandered around, had fun with friends and now I'm so low. I know it's not permanent. The sunshine will be back in my life. This is what I told her. We will get better for sure. I hope we can experience this together. This situation has a massive impact on me. I don't know but maybe even if sometimes I feel I'm getting better I have some stress disorder? My body and intuition also alarms me when she is getting closer to me?

The one thing came to my mind these days. I see more clearly the pattern of my girlfriend's behavior. At first she's shocking me with her understandnig of things, her ideas but when I'm patient and let her just talk and try to validate her emotions and say how I see the things, she changes her mind, not immediately, but in a few hours or days later. It gives me some hope and tells me I should be patient but still I don't know what I shouldn't tolerate in her behavior.


I can see she suffers a lot. She experinces her emotions so intensly. When she's angry she can't control herself at all. She gets angry with me so easily. 

She critisize me, fights with me most of the time when we talk. We just had a very nice first talk on skype. I was very happy to see her finaly but we didn't talk much. Anyway we were smiling a lot to each other. Besides that she is most of the time angry with me.

On the other hand she asked me to say hello to her friends that were curious who is her „husband”. She says she is happy about everything in her life except me. I'm with her, I'm trying to support her. But I'm worried I don't do well. She might need something else. I understand how she can feel but it looks like she's not so unhappy when she talkes with others, with her employees, but when she talkes with me... .She's really suffering. I'm worried I contribute to her dysregulation a lot. I don't know for sure but we are both in crisis. I believe it's for something. We have to change to cope with it and I think even if it's really painful what we experience there might be benefit in it as a gateaway to our change. I started to work on myself already. She can join and it seems like she wants to do so but she can't communicate it easily. She goes around and sometimes opposite. 

It's so many condradictions in what she says. It may cause my problems to recognize what is real what is not. Sometimes I feel grounded, sometimes not. Sometimes I feel slowly things will go in good direction but sometimes overwhelming doubts come to my mind. When I read my previous post I can see how paranoid and scared I got. Then two days later I can see things are getting better. She plans our future and so on and talks very different about our child. I know I shouldn't go too far. I should make it step by step. Slowly without rush deal with things that are ahead of us and don't focus too much on those that may happened in long term.


In all this hard time I'm having now with her I can see some moments when everything is going in right direction. Few days ago she told me she will never ever go to psychotherapist. I didn't talk about it with her at all and replied it's her choice and she has right to do so. Yesterday I told her she might consider to look for help if she feels so low when she was struggling with intensive emotions. She surprised me and said it's good idea and she will do this for me not for herself but eventually she might go and see therapist. I know I shouldn't be excited but on the other hand it's probably step in good direction right? Well not 100% as she says it's for me but maybe she just says so and slowly it will get better. I'm a bit surprised aboutthe speed of things changing between us. We talk for not very long and it looks like the things that I was considering as a good steps to take are more and more possible. I remember when I was so scared she will never ever come here and she's still not here but she consider it more and more. I don't know what's her intention but maybe not so bad as I sometimes think. I hope so.

     

[Harley Quinn]

Haba,

I'm sorry to hear how your struggles are affecting you and I can relate to so much of what you write about how the relationship impacts your sense of well being.  At the same time I'm glad that you see it as an opportunity for growth and a turning point.  I do believe everything happens for a reason and it's up to us to take from it what we should learn. 

You do sound very torn in your posts because of her mixed messages and I think it's important to remember that a pwBPD will behave and make decisions based on what they are feeling in that moment.  And the feelings will change frequently.  This is likely why she comes across as so changeable in her thought process and it is going to be very hard to know what to expect from one day to the next.  For that reason the only thing I can advise right now is to take what she says in the moment and not hang too much on it.  You really can only take one day at a time.  Just remain focused on what is right for YOU at the moment to regain some balance in your life and keep up positive communication as much as you're able to guide things in the direction you wish them to go, but also have boundaries in place that protect your energy from being sapped.  You will need to be clear about what you won't tolerate and stick with that, even if it is difficult for both of you at the time.

If you still decide to encourage her to go to you and IF you think there really is a chance that she may come to you and then wish to leave the children with you for a time I would suggest that you consider this may be a possibility and get in front of it.  So that you are prepared for if that happens.  Consider how you would manage, what support you might need and from whom.  Is there anyone you would need to speak to in that situation, in order to make this possible for you, what would you do about your working situation, childcare etc... .?  I'm not saying put anything concrete in place, simply to have a clear plan of action if you were to need it.  Just so that you have some peace of mind and have sort of worked through the possibility and it doesn't become a source of stress and worry for you.  It may of course never happen, however if it should you are ready in yourself and it does not have to become a huge trauma if you are prepared.  In reality, if she is as unstable as she sounds to be, then it could be that the children might benefit from your care more long term in that eventuality. 

As you're unsure about the future of the relationship right now, rather than going straight to her coming to you permanently, how about a trial visit for a short time so that you can see how things might go?  Would she be open to that?  I know you said you were concerned about marriage for her to stay permanently.  I think it's important that before you commit to something like that you are certain that things can work out, especially as you mention that divorce would be difficult in the event that they don't.  Just an idea.

Love and light x

[Haba]

I do believe everything happens for a reason and it's up to us to take from it what we should learn. 

Thank you so much Harley Quinn for your message. It's a lot of support for me in this difficult time. I know it won't be so bad forever and there is definitelly reason behind all this.

Nothing is permanent. It will pass and something new will come. Of course I need to work very hard on it to get best possible results and learn what needs to be learn from it. Step by step. I believe things will go in good direction. I understand I can't focus so much on this relationship because it will consume me and leave me completly drained.

Last week was terrible. And even when both of us declare we want to improve our relationship we don't have good experience. No matter what I do she just hates me. She says “She force herself to feel different about me but she can't”. Sometimes I have enough and I start to set some limits because it's all not good for her too. She suffers while focusing on this frustrating relationship with me. 

I can advise right now is to take what she says in the moment and not hang too much on it.  You really can only take one day at a time. 

I'm trying my best not to fix on anything but I can see she has hostile attitude to me most of the time. Sometimes she will say something really nice, she is trying to sustain connection with me and as she says she feels nice about me and have a need to talk with me but then something happens to her and she can't control it. That's what she says. When I set her some limits for amount of hate through skype I can see she is getting calmer and there are some moments when it's possible to talk with her. But sometimes it's just impossible. On the other hand for few occasions she mentioned she might go for therapy. She really surprised me about it. I hope there will action following these words.

Just remain focused on what is right for YOU at the moment to regain some balance in your life and keep up positive communication as much as you're able to guide things in the direction you wish them to go, but also have boundaries in place that protect your energy from being sapped. 

Yes this is best thing I can do. I'm trying again politely show her it's difficult to make any step forward by never ending attakcs on me. I guess something will have to change very soon because of that.
I have found plenty of jobs. I want to settle down a bit and think what to do. I'm considering psychotherapy schoolfor myself and my therapist encourages me to apply to one. I'm very indecisive somehow. There are three schools to choose and I don't know yet which one should I pick. I know any choice will be good but I have to think a little what I want to really do in my life and what can I do. I had a bit different plan for myself before. I don't have much time to make decision and it stresses me out a lot. I can't understand why I have such huge problems with decision making this time. It's my issue but also this situation probably makes things worse.

If you still decide to encourage her to go to you and IF you think there really is a chance that she may come to you and then wish to leave the children with you for a time I would suggest that you consider this may be a possibility and get in front of it. 
 

I'm thinking about it. What I can see she have changed her attitude to our baby. She said once she regrets she will have it. She is not excited anymore, doesn't say anything about her daughter, how she is happy about it and still says it's “your baby”.

I think she doesn't really want to come here and might be she doesn't really want to be with me but she doesn't know what to do with “my child”. But I might be completly wrong and I don't want to set my mind in this defensive and paranoid mode because it will be hard to make anything good. She said she will finish her work within two months then she might come here but will have to come back to her place in April or May. Doesn't say what we are going to do when she will leave. She makes strong plans about that place there and it's not a surprise but she doesn't talk at all about future of kids, about education and it's just 2 years when the girl will have to start education in primary school. If she wants to do it in European country I can't really imagine it because she will need to learn some language first.

I doubt she would like to leave her daughter with me. She has strong bonds with her. She is 4 yrs old. I'm not her father. I think she consider to leave only our soon newborn child. I think I'm ready for that. I talked with my therapist about it too. She may hate this baby now. If this will be a boy then because of her experience with men it will be definitelly better if he will stay with me. I want to rise him with or without her. There is no other choice and I think I have already love for this baby. Of course it doesn't matter if it's a boy or girl but would be easier for us if it's a boy in these settings. I will get some help from my family. I think it will be hard but I'm ready for it. It's dark scenario but it might happen.

I also don't know what to do with marriage. She is actually married to father of her first child. He doesn't have any contact with his daughter. They have married in Vegas and both of them think it's not valid anywhere except Nevada but I think it's not true even if they didn't register it in any consulate. For this reason our marriage can be actually impossible. And yes everyone says, inculding my therapist, it might be bad idea to marry her in general at this moment because we don't know what she will do and she can easily use it against me and complicate my life. If she will decide to leave forever then it might be bad idea indeed.

On the other hand it will be really difficult for her to stay here if she will come and also to give birth to our child. I wish to give us a chance. For me this is the healthiest option. We work on our family. So how to make it without marriage I don't know. It's China and Poland. Couldn't be more difficult to make just trial. I wonder how to talk with her honestly to know her plans for us and the child. I know it's not an option for me to go to China. It can be dangerous. Sad but true.

The second healthiest solution for us I think is if the baby will stay with me and she can go and do whatever she wish. I guess one day it will be very hard for her but nothing I can do about it. Maybe she will be back maybe not. I know she can be really bad for her daughter sometimes but she idealizes her father and... .well it's lot of things but she definitelly loves her. If she hates our baby because it's mine then I really don't think there might be something good for this child to stay with her.

It's insane bacause I wish we can be together and at the same time I have to prepare for a very vicious and devilish plans she might have to protect myself, her and the children.

It seems like I really still don't know much about BPD.