Im split between wanting her back and wanting to move on.

[Freeatlast_1]

So we broke up and she went to Spain to change pace and relax. Spent her whole trip texting me and anxious and crying and missing me. Was on WhatsApp all the time.

So what happened was that she came back from Spain and she was pursuing me and stocking me for three days, showed up to my work, started begging and pleading and crying that I give her a chance. I told her that we can start talking again but I'm not going to give her a legitimate chance until she proves herself and acts consistent and stable.

So for the following two weeks we were just  hanging out watching movies together not really back together hundred percent but we were just talking. And then an incident happened, she saw a spider in her room one day, she called me and started crying hysterically over the phone. She started victimizing and saying how nobody cares about her. So I made the statement " stop acting like a child  stop crying "and the way she was crying at that time was really funny so I was laughing at the same time. Now this is something I've done to her before and she used to laugh with me in the middle of her crying, kind of strange. She would convert her cries into a laugh because I say I can't believe how you're crying and the noises that you make. Anyhow this time around  she didn't turn it into a laugh, she told me to shut up you hung up the phone and she said it's over. This is the person that was begging and pleading for weeks while she was in Spain, came back for three days begging and pleading and crying for me.

I don't understand how someone can be all over you one day and just could say it's over. Since then we have not talked. It's been a week. Honestly I feel guilty and somehow insensitive in guards to my statement. I texted her an apology. I asked a few friends of mine and they said that this is my love language and that is also their love language and they say that to their friends all the time and I talk like that to my family like that all the time. None of them gets affected like this. I always tell my friends you're acting like a child stop it and my friends just stop acting like a child. I did not mean it in any bad way but she took it to a whole new level.

I am very distraught I'm sad and I'm very down every day. I'm having a lot of issues moving on. Part of it is I miss her and I don't want to move on and another part of it is I want It to work. She called me leaving me a voicemail saying that she will come back at a later time with contingencies of us going to therapy. I don't like being in a position where someone is telling me that they will come back in the right time with contingencies.

Knowing that I did not ask her back. I did not say plead or need her in anyway. In fact I told her that I'm over it. She somehow sensed that I missing her. I'm really having a hard time putting things behind me, part of it is because I don't want to, the other part is I'm attached. It's just really hard for me right now. I want to block her and MoveOn, I just don't know how.

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[JaxDK]

This is most likely what i think happened.

BPD's can't survive on their own. They need a 'host' to latch on to for an identity they are missing in themselves. Their worst enemy is loneliness and abandonment. What you experienced was her dysregulation and desperation. Not love hence the manipulation to draw you in. If a guy showed up at her door and showed her attention or fell for the fragile 'victim' you would not her a word from her trust me on this. This is less about you and more about her.

She didn't get what she needed from you (for you to end her loneliness and anxiety), causing her to split you at the moment as a defense mechanism she has no control over. Good for you to set some boundaries and protecting yourself. Sadly this does not work in this case, because her fear of being alone and her anxiety far outweighs healthy boundaries you might try and impose, to her it's just another form of rejection/abandonment and uncertainty. Boundaries are absolutely necessary in relationships but impossible to impose once a BPD is in dysregulation mode.

You really have to spend some time figuring out what's best for you, rather than finding a desperate way out of those feelings you are experiencing right now. Our feelings doesn't always have our best interest at heart

[Rayban]

Fear, Obligation, Guilt

That's what I'm seeing here. Fear of losing her and not taking the necessary steps to protect yourself.  I think you enjoyed her chasing you for days, and you forgot why you broke up with her. I'm assuming this is not the first time you've broken up ... .yes?

I told her that we can start talking again but I'm not going to give her a legitimate chance until she proves herself and acts consistent and stable. 

What's changed? Doesn't seem to be acting consistent and stable to me. You feel obligated to this person, to the point where you are willing to break your own boundries for her. Do you think she'll respect you if you give her yet another chance?

The whole spider thing was a guilt trip in the making. I've seen it many times. Question or hold your ground with a BPD and they will flip the table on you, end the conversation leaving the partner  stuck with the planted seed of guilt.  She planted it, stopped communicating with you and let your mind do the rest. If continue contact even after asserting boundries, deciding that's it's ok to watch movies with a person that has caused you so much pain is just a way of digging your own grave. Do you love her or the roller coaster ride?

 Part of it is I miss her and I don't want to move on and another part of it is I want It to work. She called me leaving me a voicemail saying that she will come back at a later time with contingencies of us going to therapy. I don't like being in a position where someone is telling me that they will come back in the right time with contingencies. 

This reminds me of my own ex who would end conversations with "take care ... .for now" In other words she'll be back when she wants" In the mean time she was with somone else, and I was left suffering.  Here she is using your reaction to the spider incident, as a reason to seek therapy.  Before long, she'll have YOU believing that you are the one that needs help. You seemed strong and steadfast in imposing boundries with her, and staying away now you are pinning for her again. This will never change.  If you love her, do what's best for both of you. End it and get help to move on. Nobody here will tell you it will be easy.  Infact it will probably be one of the hardest things you'll have to do in your life. Trust me it will get easier as you put in the effort to get your life back

[once removed]

I did not mean it in any bad way

when someone is crying, upset, fearful, emotionally volatile, i dont think theres ever a good way to tell them they are acting like a child and to stop it.

not judging. i did precisely the same thing a few times. its about as invalidating as we can be.

you apologized. that was a good move regardless of what happens.

so you miss her and youre not sure if you want to move on. shes in a similar place. we can work with that.

she proposed therapy for the both of you. what do you think of that?

[Freeatlast_1]

This is most likely what i think happened.

BPD's can't survive on their own. They need a 'host' to latch on to for an identity they are missing in themselves. Their worst enemy is loneliness and abandonment. What you experienced was her dysregulation and desperation. Not love hence the manipulation to draw you in. If a guy showed up at her door and showed her attention or fell for the fragile 'victim' you would not her a word from her trust me on this. This is less about you and more about her.

She didn't get what she needed from you (for you to end her loneliness and anxiety), causing her to split you at the moment as a defense mechanism she has no control over. Good for you to set some boundaries and protecting yourself. Sadly this does not work in this case, because her fear of being alone and her anxiety far outweighs healthy boundaries you might try and impose, to her it's just another form of rejection/abandonment and uncertainty. Boundaries are absolutely necessary in relationships but impossible to impose once a BPD is in dysregulation mode.

You really have to spend some time figuring out what's best for you, rather than finding a desperate way out of those feelings you are experiencing right now. Our feelings doesn't always have our best interest at heart

Jax, I know what you are saying is true. She manipulated me to sort of come back, kind of 1/4 a$$ though. She felt abandoned after I was back because I wasn't fully in it and was ignoring her all day and not wanting her to come over. So she felt horrible abandonment and get depressed over it within 2 weeks. I think she unconsciously did the spider freak out. The only thing is this girl is finishing her masters in Psych and going for her PHD and has gone through DBT and would do whatever it takes to fix her BPD, PTSD etc. I think if there is hope for anyone to resolve these issues, it would be for her. She has gone through one round of DBT and wants to do some more. Anyhow that is why I find it hard to step away. She is smart and wants to resolve her problems. But when she disregulates, forget about it.

[Freeatlast_1]

when someone is crying, upset, fearful, emotionally volatile, i dont think theres ever a good way to tell them they are acting like a child and to stop it.

not judging. i did precisely the same thing a few times. its about as invalidating as we can be.

you apologized. that was a good move regardless of what happens.

so you miss her and youre not sure if you want to move on. shes in a similar place. we can work with that.

she proposed therapy for the both of you. what do you think of that?

A lot of things I do is invalidating to her and dismissive. Remember she loves to use Psych jargon. She is overly sensitive and I try my best to be sensitive to her but sometimes I can come across snappy to her. She did already pin it on me that it's my fault and that I am insensitive and that no one else will take it. She said it's going to come up again when I am vulnerable with someone. Us going to therapy is an issue with me. We have not even moved in together and already going to couples counselling? that is a flag that we aren't on the same page from the getgo. I would rather things be more organically fitting. I don't mind couples therapy if I am married for 10 years and starting to have issues. But from the first year of dating to go to therapy is digging myself in a hole, and throwing my next few years down the drain. Having said that, I miss her A LOT. I have an ache in my stomach that is constant. I broke up with her Sept 16 and continued to have that ache in my stomach for 6 months until we got back together and I relaxed. We both dated others. So it's a little more complicated than just walking out, although I want to walk out. I just don't know how this time around I will not feel sick for months after. I remember I was with others back in Feb and felt I couldn't breath.

[Freeatlast_1]

she proposed therapy for the both of you. what do you think of that?

I don't want to go therapy with her. She needs to go to therapy so she can resolve her PTSD and BPD. She has major childhood trauma. She is trying to pin it on me that I am emotionally unavailable, afraid of intimacy. I wouldn't be so afraid of intimacy if my partner was safe. She is anything but safe... .of course I would be unavailable and doing my own thing. I feel like crap because my rational mind knows exactly what to do. My heart and emotions are suffering to the max... .

[Freeatlast_1]

Fear, Obligation, Guilt

I think you enjoyed her chasing you for days, and you forgot why you broke up with her. I'm assuming this is not the first time you've broken up ... .yes?

What's changed? Doesn't seem to be acting consistent and stable to me. You feel obligated to this person, to the point where you are willing to break your own boundries for her. Do you think she'll respect you if you give her yet another chance?
 Do you love her or the roller coaster ride?

Makes a lot of sense. I did enjoy her chasing... .and I wasn't planning to get back but was manipulated back through tears and dramatic proclamations of love, growing old, kids etc etc.

I don't enjoy the roller coaster right AT ALL ( at least not consciously) but I enjoy being with her when we are good. I have major boundaries with her but having them is also making the relationship a bit robotic. Like when I want to tell her I miss her and I want her to come over, I hold back because when I do that she initiates the pull back, she would say aww so sweet but I'm tired and gotta wake up early etc etc... .when I say don't come over for 5 days I got a project I gotta finish, she would whine all day and come to work, wait for me, bring me food... .do whatever it takes to come home with me that night and the night after JUST because I said I will see you in 5 days. I actually enjoy her over so I don't say no to it... .I love holding her and sleeping... .It gives me a lot of peace. Which is the dilemma, she gives me peace but utter anxiety at times... .I don't want to be with her when I'm with her but I do when it's over. I am not apologetic when I am with her, I am when it's over. Granted I put myself on the market and I have a few dates coming up just to get my mind off of this situation.

I am also planning to meet her and her father this weekend for dinner to discuss her career options and business decisions, I am her mentor in life too... .because I am 8 years older, I have a successful business and she is lost and doesn't know what she wants. So I don't know how that meeting will go, but I am planning to go home ALONE... .and I told her that. Every time I block her for NC, I unblock her, this is the worst most confusing emotionally challenging thing I have ever been through.

[Meili]

I don't want to go therapy with her. She needs to go to therapy so she can resolve her PTSD and BPD. She has major childhood trauma. She is trying to pin it on me that I am emotionally unavailable, afraid of intimacy. I wouldn't be so afraid of intimacy if my partner was safe. She is anything but safe... .of course I would be unavailable and doing my own thing. I feel like crap because my rational mind knows exactly what to do. My heart and emotions are suffering to the max... .

Wait, why don't you want to go to therapy with someone that you love and care about? Wouldn't it be better to figure out how the two of you can overcome your problems to have a satisfying relationship? Isn't that what you want with her?

[Freeatlast_1]

Wait, why don't you want to go to therapy with someone that you love and care about? Wouldn't it be better to figure out how the two of you can overcome your problems to have a satisfying relationship? Isn't that what you want with her?

Of course I do and I tried therapy with her for a few sessions in our (first) relationship. She blames me for everything and only takes accountability when she is in sane mode. When she's upset and victimizing, I am the most invalidating and dismissive creature. The therapist asked me to validate her more often and I did learn that, then she needed more of it. The more I give, the more she needs. This time around she wants me to go to therapy to "watch my snaps" like I shouldn't say things like "stop ur acting like a child", which I don't honestly think it's horrific if she is indeed acting like a child. It doesn't deserve a breakup, 5 days of a huge back and forth fight. Honestly, I don't want therapy with her because deep inside me I feel that we will be spending thousands of $ and the issues will remain. Her PTSD from Child trauma and mother's abandonment are so ingrained and rooted. Her BPD features very heightened sensitivity and emotions to a lot of things I do or say. Basically I have to always be sweet and nice, I can't have a bla day where I don't want to pick up her call, I can't be in a bad mood when I don't want to discuss her needs for attention. It's all about her and she wants me to go to therapy to train me to be all about her some more. She claims that she would do what it takes to make this work IF WE GO TO THERAPY. Someone who would "do what it takes" doesn't walk out on you via text a few days after saying that statement. I can't trust her instability. I can't be vulnerable with someone who can smash my heart in a matter of a second if she has it. I am hurt that I can't be fully vulnerable with her because I do care for her A LOT. If I give it up and go on my knees (not literally) begging and pleading, she will pull back and start manipulating and blaming. I really wish this wasn't the case, but it is... .I am stuck.

[Meili]

I can see that you certainly have strong feelings about therapy. I know that when my girl suggested that we go to therapy and suggested it so that I could learn to communicate better with her, I was resistant. In fact, I refused. So, I have some idea where you are coming from.

I had to learn that I cannot change her though. If things were going to be saved, I had to change how I acted. I had to learn to validate the valid, not validate the invalid, and not invalidate the valid. Learning those went a long way to learning to communicate differently.

If you want to save your relationship, I strongly recommend that you learn all that you can about BPD. People with the disorder experience emotions far more intensely than nons. Understanding this and completely accepting it as fact can change how we interact with our pwBPD. It will also help you understand What it Takes to be in a Relationship with a pwBPD.

Does all of that make sense?

[once removed]

Remember she loves to use Psych jargon.

validation isnt psych jargon  . its a skill for life that will take you far and make you a better partner.

She is overly sensitive and I try my best to be sensitive to her but sometimes I can come across snappy to her.

it takes practice, and you wont get it right all of the time. our partners can really test us. whats helped me a lot is to think in terms of "dont be invalidating" as opposed to "be validating". when i practice this skill with others (and i do, i use it all the time) i dont necessarily sit there and think "how can i validate, what can i validate?". i am very mindful about invalidating, or being dismissive.

if id come at you and said "dude you were a total jerk whats your problem i dont even begin to understand where youre coming from", would that have gotten us anywhere? thats kind of the approach i see you taking, with her. it was much easier for me to first practice "not being invalidating" before i learned how to validate. now they both come naturally. 

Us going to therapy is an issue with me. We have not even moved in together and already going to couples counselling? that is a flag that we aren't on the same page from the getgo. I would rather things be more organically fitting.

i can see where youre coming from on this. the prospect of couples counseling is kind of awkward. its the same attitude where members on the breakup board say "i dont want to go to therapy, i want to take this on myself".

bottom line is do you want to save your relationship? because youre not on the same page as it stands. what would therapy hurt?

but heres a caveat: we often discourage couples on here from couples counseling and instead encourage them to seek private, one on one therapy first. your relationship has broken down and both of you are kind of clinging to your respective corners. couples counseling could actually make that worse, with both of you trying to get the counselor to take your side, against the other (you mentioned you had a few sessions and thats how it played out). right now you are taking a "its not me, its her" position, and while our partners are exceptionally difficult, its an attitude that is driving you to do some really self defeating things. it contributes to relationship break down.

have a read of this, and let us know what stage you think your relationship is in: https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

what about seeing a therapist for yourself? i think if you told her that itd be a big demonstration, and would help you a lot, regardless of where the relationship goes.

[Freeatlast_1]

 First of all thank you so much for the reply, what you're saying makes a lot of sense. I am at stage four, I have been ignoring her since she got back from Spain. She tried to call me six or seven times a day I don't pick up any of her calls, she started  feeling abandoned emotionally, she complained to me but I said I'm concerned with my work and focusing on my work.  She complained that she was getting neglected, I said I don't mean it and let's schedule a date in the next few days, we scheduled it on the weekend. But of course we never got to the weekend. We broke up before that. About the invalidating comments I say, I really tried not being so invalidating, but I got to the point where  I cannot even have a bad day and say I'm having a bad day please give me space without that sounding invalidating and mean to her. One time she was really bubbly with me when I got in the car, and I said Babe please stop, she didn't even ask what was wrong with me she and didn't even ask what's happening or why am I in such a pissy mood, she immediately start started yelling screaming and cursing me. I don't mind  being validating, I really don't mind being gentle with her, but I don't have any room for my own needs and emotions. I don't have room to not want to talk to her when I can't focus on her, I don't have room to have a bad day after a 12 hour shift with complicated patients, afterwhile I'm a doctor. I also run a  A business that comes with its challenges, the last thing I need is her to unload all her issues at me every night. Now don't get me wrong, I mentor her every day with her career, she dumps a lot of her stuff on me and I have been there for her a lot. Sometimes however I just need her to chill out and give me some  Space without feeling abandoned and freaking out, and cursing and screaming and telling me to shut up. I don't do really well with verbal abuse, I take it very personal even though I know she's sick and I don't want to separate her from her illness honestly. Once she starts verbally abusing me, I lash out at her and I will not take one curse word from her. That's why she cannot handle this relationship, she leaves right away because she has a feeling that I cannot and I won't stay if she stays the way she is. Now I have hope in this woman, she is a psychologist and she has a lot of support in the field. She will probably end up getting very spiritual  and work on her mindfullness and will get over her BPD traits eventually. I predict that might take her a few years by that time I will be long gone. As much as I love this woman, I don't want to be a part of this process. As much as I respect all of you guys here who have learned to deal with these people,   I cannot see myself as a punching bag.  It's also hard for me not to take it personally when somebody's cursing me out and yelling at me, even though I'm fully aware of their fears and insecurities at that moment. It just really affect me and puts me into a major anxiety state. That's exactly why I'm torn. I know that this girl is very smart and capable, but once she shuts off, she's not aware that she needs to do the work. Last week, when she got back from Spain, and was chasing me back to get back into the relationship, she actually said those words "it is my fault, it happened and my other relationships too I am the common denominator, I will have to work on it"  I respected her so much after that comment. I really thought to myself OK there's a chance if she sees it that means she can improve it. All that shifted and a whole new personality came out the following week, a personality that denies her issues. A personality that blames me for invalidating and dismissing her and ignoring her. Honestly, at this point every time she calls and texts for the past few days I have been ignoring all attempts. At this point as much as I miss her and I love her, every time I think of her I get an anxiety attack. I don't think it is a good time for us to give this another try as painful as it seems.