She just got served...from me this time

[40days_in_desert]

I've been off and on this site for about a year and a half now so I'll give a very brief background.

 - Married for 14.5 years until separation in August 2015. She moved back to home state with our 5 children to give us time apart to work
    on our marriage. Divorce was not an option. Her idea and her words.
 - uBPD but persistently shows 8 of 9 BPD characteristics.
 - Started dating her ex boyfriend as soon as she moved back. She had been caught talking to him off and on since 2013 and found out
   later before that. 100% verifiable proof.
 - She found pornography on my computer in late 2013 then started talking to her ex boyfriend.
 - She filed for divorce in the state in which I still lived three months later. I moved to where she was to be near our children.
 - We mutually dismissed the case earlier this year in the state where she filed.
 - I recently filed in the state where we both live.
 - She was served two days ago.
 - Oldest D16 lives with me full time. I have the youngest four every other weekend and Thursdays for dinner.

That brings me to the present day. My D16 went to her mother's for dinner last night. After school today, D16 shared some of the things that her mother said about me. I kind of expected ex to talk about me but there were a few new things that popped up this time. The most amazing thing had to do with ex's boyfriend that she started seeing when she moved here. Actually before that on the last family visit to our home state as a family but she doesn't know that I know that. Ex told D16 that ex and boyfriend were just friends before moving and had no intentions of dating before she moved with the kids. She also told D16 that ex and boyfriend never talked about our marriage problems. Then... .wait for it... .she told D16 that I gave ex (her mom) permission to talk to the ex-boyfriend every time while we were still together... .wow! It was actually the opposite. It was the main topic of our fighting the last 20 months we were together! I found an "extra" FB page and a hidden pay as you go phone which wouldn't have been necessary if I gave her permission... .
Now back to reality and out of the twilight zone, I am use to talking with my two oldest children (D13 and D16) about things that their mother says about me. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or ideas as to any legal means to try and curb this. Even if any of the things that she says about me were true, it still shouldn't be something that she should share with the kids. I hesitate to say anything to ex because she will shame the kids for telling me. I just want to know if there is anything that might make her at least think twice before sharing. I will share with my L and see what she says but 1) needed to vent and 2) thought I'd ask before asking someone that costs $375/hr.

[WildernessMan]

I can related on one point in particular - My wife, with undocumented BPD, has said bad things about me since our kids were born.

We have a daughter 21, another 17, and a son 14; all living with us. Our oldest, by the way, was determined to have severe BPD 3 years ago.

All three children have been munipulated against me from birth by their mom, and this was confirmed to me by my olderst daughter back in November, 2016 when she was mad at her mom.

My wife and I, however, are still married. Nonetheless it is highly hurtful to have negative things said to your children about you, especially if it's said with a dishonest twist, which is the case in my situation most of the time. 

As a side note, my wife had an awful childhood. Her dad was a wife abuser, physical and verbal, throughout my wife's growth. He also molested my wife's oldest sister, and I've heard possibly my wife as well. My wife has reported to me that he did in fact fondle her when she hit puberty. I dont know to what extent.

This brings me to my final point. Sorry. Kind of long winded. I have read that, possibly, my wife is playing out a "script" in her head. Some type of repeat of hate against the father figure, as retaliation for her father's past bad behavior. I'm not a shrink but I've read this more than once. Does anyone have input o this point?

I'm sorry your Ex is saying awful things about you, but if she has BPD I'm not surprised at all. I'm not an attorney but my feeling is nothing can be done to stop her actions. I have thought about this myself.

 

   

[ForeverDad]

Boundaries... .The person with BPD (pwBPD) generally doesn't have boundaries, that is, proper ones.  Remorse, apologies and positive changes are infrequent, if ever.  I can't think of any practical way to stop ex from sharing adult topics, maybe someone else here can.

That's why boundaries are more for us than changing the ex.  Have a healthy boundary "I you do ____ then I will ____."  For example, if ex starts ranting and raging then your boundary is to stop getting bashed by leaving.  But here she is sharing adult matters things with the children where your influence is less.  On the one hand, you don't want the children to hide things from you since some things may be important for you to know.  However, you could teach the children to tell their mother that they don't want to hear such things, that way they'd be creating their own healthy boundaries.  May not work at first but over time they can get better at it and their mother may eventually hold back on those matters.

Do the children see a counselor?  An experienced and informed counselor would be an asset for them, well, as long as mother doesn't choose an easily manipulated or gullible person who would take sides against you.  Also, courts love the concept of counseling.  If she didn't want counseling for the kids and you did, I'm fairly sure the court would order counseling, but it would be up to you to ensure the counselor is qualified to handle the parental discord and ex's blame shifting.

If you look way back in my posts, I commented on the generational aspects of family discord.

This is a example that has been repeated millions of times in millions of families.  While the specifics may not apply directly in your case, the general pattern possibly does:

Little son/daughter sees parents screaming and fighting all the time, maybe both agressive against each other, or maybe just one fighting and the other one taking it passively.  Maybe it's directed at the kids too.  The poor little innocent kids either see abuse or are abused and they tell themselves, 'When I grow up I'll never do that to my spouse or to my kids or let my kids see/hear that.'

Well, guess what, the child grows up and does just what the parents did.  (It can be modeling either the aggressive parent(s) or the appeasing parent.  Abuser or Victim.)  That's the example they grew up with.  That's how an abused person can become an abuser years later without even realizing it.  From abused to abuser.

I've talked with some parents who had bad tempers and they admitted their own parents were that way too.  Yet it was so hard, so very hard for them to recognize the generational connection and to fight the urge to vent without self-control.

Many (but of course not all) adult problems seem to have roots in childhood.  Our basic personality is being formed in those early years.  I don't say this to add or remove blame to anyone, but just knowing that sometimes events in childhood have serious repercussions years later may help you to not feel so bad about yourself.  You are worth the effort to get better!

The point is, not to point blame in the past as primary focus, but rather to move forward and point to realistic solutions for the future.  Your future is your responsibility, hopefully a more and more positive one.

[flourdust]

I'll just briefly address your question about legal means. The short answer is "... .sort of." You can draft a divorce decree that will have instructions prohibiting this form of parental alienation. In my state, it's boilerplate. However, enforcement only comes down to how much time & money you want to spend dragging her into court (or before a parental consultant) when you hear of a violation.

You also should look into a few books I can recommend that address how to manage this head-on.

Don't Alienate the Kids by Bill Eddy, author of the much-endorsed Splitting, the definitive guide to divorcing someone with BPD. I find this book very solid for coping with this level of alienation.

There's also Divorce Poison, which addresses much more extreme cases of alienation (as in, the kids have been completely turned against ever seeing you again).

[Panda39]

Besides ForeverDads advice about having your kids tell their mom they don't want to hear that stuff.  Depending on what the discussion is about the kids can also refer their mom directly to you taking themselves out of the middle or off the Karpman Triangle.  So for example when mom says your dad won't do xyz they can tell her to talk with you directly about it.

Here is a link about the Karpman Triangle in case your interested... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

I've also pulled a link from the co-parenting board that might be helpful (you might also want to post over there about strategies for helping your children negotiate their mom's behaviors.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331288#msg1331288

Hope this helps,
Panda39