Significant other other - Pretty sure it's BPD

[Krysalis]

Hi, 

I'm new to this group and very glad to have found it.  Thank you so much to the organisers and all contributors.

I'm in a seven year respectfully non-monogamous, long distance relationship with another mum of teenaged children.   Sounds like a disaster already but by and large it isn't all bad and it meets many of our needs.

My long distance partner, I'll call her L,  has been exhibiting what I now know to be just about all the signs of BPD and I have been rationalising them in terms of  the abovementioned complications in our relationship.     Much of the time we are both perfectly fine with the complications however.  It's the major dramas and upheavals, a diagnosis of dissociative disorder, insecurity, a periodic tendency towards manipulative ways of relating, suicidal episodes, repeated feigned dumpings, infidelities (yes betrayal can exist in a non-monogamous relationship)  and silent treatments, many of which appear to be cyclical, have led me to suspect BPD.

I now realise I was well and truly love-bombed by L at a time I was vulnerable and that is what started our romantic relationship.  I recently  found out that she had been doing exactly the same to another woman even using some of the same phrases and altering her personality to fit in with that person the way I now see she has done for me.  It was heartbreaking to discover but also like a light turning on as that, and my consequent discovery of BPD have resolved many inconsistencies that have tortured me for the whole duration of our relationship.   So I am both deeply hurt and relieved at the same time.

I am afraid I cannot see how we can remain in such an intimate relationship with this being something that isn't going to be resolved through understanding things rationally as we have attempted to do for a long time.  I can see now that was futile.  This is not rational behaviour and is completely inconsistent with what I consider to be her regular behaviour.   Time is a factor.  I have two teen-aged children, my live-with partner has health issues , I'm the sole financial support for my family (I have a great job and can do this part time which is wonderful.) 

My Live-with partner A is also good friends with L and fully supports our relationship.   I am so glad I found out about BPD as up to now he has been unable to believe that the peculiar and heartbreaking behaviour I've experienced was really occurring.  Now he can see too, however, that BPD seems likely.

L and I were friends a long time before we became romantically involved.  The three of us are sharing several business/personal projects that will take time, trust and mutual effort to dismantle if that becomes necessary.  I hope that it doesn't as we work wonderfully together and these projects are pivotal to L's livelihood and financial security after years of financial abuse by a former partner.   For this reason I really hope that we can all remain good friends, hence my research and careful consideration. I haven't mentioned my suppositions to L as yet. 

I  love L dearly despite all the agony this thing has caused.  I realise that transitioning back to a friendship will not be easy and is almost universally contraindicated but I still want to attempt it.

I'll be doing a lot of reading here but just wanted to introduce myself and would be grateful to hear about any relevant experience others have had, or if there's something glaringly obviously misguided in my thinking that I cannot see     (It happens)

 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

HI Krysalis,

Welcome to the board . Sorry that things have been difficult for your relationship.

What specific behaviors are you seeing that make you believe your partner has BPD?

[JoeBPD81]

I am afraid I cannot see how we can remain in such an intimate relationship with this being something that isn't going to be resolved through understanding things rationally as we have attempted to do for a long time.  I can see now that was futile.  This is not rational behaviour and is completely inconsistent with what I consider to be her regular behaviour.   

Hi there,

There have been some members in "poly-amorous" relationships, I wonder if it would be a good thing to open a sub-forum about that, because I believe you must have specific difficulties. Seeing that trust is a strong issue with BPD, the dynamics outside monogamy must be hard. I say this because I wish I could help you, but I'm not prepared to understand the challenges you might find. And maybe it would be a good thing to give yourselves more visibility so you can find people with similar issues. I apologize if I'm saying something inappropriate.

About the BPD I can tell you that it might sound irrational. But in time, most things make sense. It has its own   logic and "rationality", and when everyone is aware, the drama can be turned down a lot.

Reading about BPD gives you new tools to communicate better and learn about yourself and how each of us manage emotions. So, it is not time wasted.

Best of luck!

[Krysalis]

What specific behaviors are you seeing that make you believe your partner has BPD?

Thank you for the welcome and question

I have never had such an intense and unstable relationship as this one.   L seems to rapidly shift between emotional states and opinions of me.

She does this sort of pre-emptive dumping if she feels insecure about me (which is frequent) and will then implement a silent treatment for several days which feels like a punishment.

I have witnessed L changing major aspects about herself to fit in with somebody she is interested in pleasing.  Manner of speaking,  interests, spiritual beliefs and preferences.

L has always panicked a bit when I go on holiday, even a long weekend away, which I have thought was odd since we are already living about 600km apart.   OS trips really freak her out as she is certain I'll never return.

Unfortunately she has made threats of suicide about ten times in the seven years we've been together, including once when she bought pills and alcohol after her then husband was particularly verbally abusive.

She has a history of abuse from quite early childhood right up until she separated with her abusive husband a couple of years ago.

She will complain about about the limitations in our relationship which have always been known and accepted between us and occasionally she will make efforts to coerce me to be more present in her life than I am able.  When I've suggested our relationship is not good for her and she really needs a partner she can live with, she sometimes goes to extreme lengths to prove how much she loves and needs me (and only me)  in her life,  but will then discard me almost in the next breath, only to recommence very affectionate communications a day or two later and say that she never wanted more than we have.

There are major inconsistencies in her communication with me and sometimes I have become aware of untruths told that she must have been aware of but often it seems to be genuine memory lapse or change of belief in her own mind.

She has been diagnosed with dissociative disorder.

I'm not sure if it's BPD but I certainly feel better now I've stopped taking things so personally.

I have been doing a fair bit of reading and I have softened my view in line with what you have said thank you, JoeBPD81  and yes you are spot on, our non-monogamy has posed an extra challenge for L. 

I need transparency in order to manage my own engagement in multiple intimate relationships.   I am uncomfortable about being drip-fed information or finding things out the hard way that I could have been gently and lovingly informed of verbally.    L has often insisted she's absolutely open with me and questions my level of trust for not believing her,  while at the same time hiding very important details like an intense relationship she was having a while back.   She has often curated the truth to make it more palatable to me which is tragic as I am pretty sure I love her enough to accept anything at all if she is only honest and open.

[Krysalis]

One of the concerning things I have read is that people with BPD can sometimes maintain "romantic" relationships for personal gain.

There is no doubt that L is benefiting  financially from our relationship, gaining much needed security and a home for herself and children after a divorce and prior years of financial abuse.

I've not wanted finances to affect our relationship so I've made sure all arrangements between us are of a well documented somewhat mutually beneficial (or at least neutral) business nature.  Sounds awfully clinical and as I write it I'm in tears knowing I've always had some very slight occasional  inkling it was possible I was being used.

I can't actually think of any other reason for L to be secretive with me regarding her other relationship nor for her to suddenly give it up as she did after three months (as I found out later - she had told me it was a couple of weeks) , saying it was "nothing" and "a mistake".  Most of the time I can't imagine she would use me though.

[Krysalis]

It seems I Lost a message here last night.

I'd said I had realised i was  quite upset when I wrote those messages and things are looking much better now.

I just had a couple of days,with L, discussed the possibility of BPD though I have a lot of trouble remembering that strange name.

She read an article and we did a quiz together.  L said a lot of it does correlate with  how she feels.

I can also easily see now how I've been exacerbating situations for her and I hope we will both have a lot more understanding now.

Thanks again

[Radcliff]

Hi Krysalis, and welcome!

Cyclical ups and downs are a fact of life with BPD.  A reconciliation and things feeling much better is part of that cycling.  You have found a great resource here.  Independent of how things are feeling in your relationship at the present moment, I'd encourage you to visit the site regularly and keep learning.  I found when I first came to the site that I only came when there was a crisis, and it was only once I became a regular that I found the true power of being here.

You don't have to rush to make any decisions.  The time just after finding out about BPD is a good time to study and learn, then start applying some of the tools you can learn here.  Have you read any books about BPD?

Wentworth

[JoeBPD81]

Hi, Krysalis, I'm glad to hear from you.

It is a big part of the stigma that people close to someone with BPD feel manipulated, or used. It takes a lot of empathy and compasion to look beyond that and understand that it is not the case. You understand where it does come from and how it works, and you see that the motivation for some behavior or another is not to punish you, or manipulate or blackmail you. Even though it is easy to feel that way, and the effects often result in that we are being punished, or we act motivated by what we felt as blackmail... .So we resent them, and they don't get why. They will be very offended if we say they are punishing, using, blackmailing us... .So we form huge snowballs of resentment-offense-distrust.

Many people go online, or even write books, or guide their proffesional practice based on a judment like that. Only a person with an intimate knowledge of BPD can tell you that maybe they are wrong. The people with BPD would sooner attack you or run away than stop and explain what is happening to them.

Imagine you lose control of your car, and in those fractions of a second of high adrenaline and fear, before crashing your car into another car,  someone asks you "Stop screaming, it is very anoying, and tell me exactly what is happening". How whould you react? How would a person that doesn't know your circumstances define you, based solely on your response?

This is the stigma, this illness has been being defined for years based on the reactions of the people who suffer, before knowing what they were reacting to.

Only recently they have studied that people with BPD live in a constant state of "emotional arousal". Think again about that moment in the car, they might live their lives at 80% of that state of panic. Small things, or their own internal dialogue, can push them to 100%, and then their reactions are over the top.

All of that doesn't take away the fact that we are screamed at, and that our feelings get hurt by their reactions. That is also real. But it makes a difference to make sense of it, and also it makes a difference about what we can do about it to defuse the situations. With time we learn to react to the cause of their explosion instead of the words we are hearing.

My gf says "I hate you" a lot, and it used to hurt me deeply. Because I wouldn't say that to anyone. Now I understand she is saying "I am so stressed that I can't interact with people right now". Knowing that she doesn't really hate me, makes a lot more sense, than thinking she hates me one day and loves me the next. It is a lot like when kids say those things. My kids have called me and their mom all kinds of horrible names, only to come an hour later and say we are the best parents in the world. My little one, I don't know is he was 5 at the time or already 6, he showed a great insight one day that crying he told me "when I'm angry, cover your ears", because he realized that, when angry, he said horrible things that did not correspond with what he really felt for me.

Adults might not realize that. The response has become so automatic that feels true. But many realize, and the realization fills them with shame, and that shame increases the disregulation, and the emotional pain.

It takes time to put all the pieces together. I'm glad you could talk about it, and that she is open to a diagnosis. It can be scary but also revealing and give them hope.

Have you been reading on this site? Or elsewhere? It is great news that you started to take things less personally, and saw how it helps. You are doing great!

[Krysalis]

 It takes a lot of empathy and compasion to look beyond that and understand that it is not the case. You understand where it does come from and how it works, and you see that the motivation for some behavior or another is not to punish you, or manipulate or blackmail you. Even though it is easy to feel that way, and the effects often result in that we are being punished, or we act motivated by what we felt as blackmail... .So we resent them, and they don't get why. They will be very offended if we say they are punishing, using, blackmailing us... .So we form huge snowballs of resentment-offense-distrust.

That's what's happened with us sometimes and I see my.part in it clearly now.

L has actually done an amazing job of managing her own behaviours although sadly she's opted to be somewhat reclusive which I don't see as her nature. 

Many people go online, or even write books, or guide their proffesional practice based on a judment like that.

That's irresponsible   I'm  glad to have found  this site as one of the first I came across    I've been reading here and elsewhere but only online at this,stage.    I'm.usually critical re sources anyway but will be even more circumspect .   There's a great library near my workplace I'll be visiting.

Only a person with an intimate knowledge of BPD can tell you that maybe they are wrong. The people with BPD would sooner attack you or run away than stop and explain what is happening to them.

I can see the big problem  my insistence on "consistency"  was causing.  I needed to look at consistency in intention (longer term than five minutes)   and it's certainly there as plain as day.  It's the reason I could never quite give up and letting go of that sense of entitlement to transparency will be good for me I think. 

I am transparent to her and I see that as my privilege now that I am able to do that.   And she is open with me to the extent she's able and can hopefully be more so now she's not being hounded

Imagine you lose control of your car, and in those fractions of a second of high adrenaline and fear, before crashing your car into another car,  someone asks you "Stop screaming, it is very anoying, and tell me exactly what is happening". How whould you react? How would a person that doesn't know your circumstances define you, based solely on your response?

That's a good analogy and I'll try to remember that.   Thankfully she's not a screamer but she does shut down and I'll give her all the time she needs and hopefully it will happen less now.

L has always struck me as someone who has internalised a lot of hard feelings and managed to be almost universally kind, calm and gentle despite all that's happened in her past.

She's seeing a psychologist just now for stress   after some traumatic recent incidents in her life.   She's made it very clear she does not want any kind of analysis and only wants strategies to better handle stress.   I hope she'll be open to getting testing.  Either way and actually even if it's not BPD or a  mild version of it, with the benefit of another way of seeing,  things make some sense in our relationship that have never added up for me before and I'm grateful.

Thank you so much for all your insights. 

[JoeBPD81]

Thank you so much for all your insights. 

Thank YOU.

When I try to explain something to my love, what I get is "You have no F-ing idea what you are talking about. None. I can't talk to you about this." So it is nice to hear I'm not completely useless   Days later she can tell me that I'm the best, that I would be an amazing shrink... .But at the moment, she feels very threatened when I give any advice, even if she asked directly for it.

[Krysalis]

Cyclical ups and downs are a fact of life with BPD.  A reconciliation and things feeling much better is part of that cycling.  You have found a great resource here. 

Thank you for your advice and welcome Wentworth.  Finally found time to get back here but your words stayed with me and you're right I need to try to find my own stability midst the cycling.  There were times my confusion and hurt feelings have affected work and family but I think that's permanently  reduced now.

I've had flu and haven't made it to the library yet but I've read a few scholarly papers now.  Interesting that some of my own traits are mentioned as "symptoms" of BPD like having multiple partners and same sex relationships.  Good thing I'm quite comfortable with my own preferences 

I do wonder though, if BPD might be making our relationship possible as much as it's making it difficult.   And also have fresh cause to wonder if our relationship is good for L.

I'm taking it slowly though and no longer voice these concerns with L as I can see it triggers anxiety and she needs stability just now.  It's sad that I don't feel I can be fully transparent with her at the moment.  It's something I find difficult.   I have told her though that I'll keep these thoughts to myself as I've realised she takes it as a threat I will leave her when I can't see that happening.  I am really suggesting she might be better off leaving me but evidently (and understandably) she can do without that advice from me.