Married 37 Years, Decided to Leave

[No Words]

Hello,

First post but lurking about for a year.

I've been married for 37 years and I think I'm done. I've followed some advice from this forum and split to a hotel for some peace and reflection.

I had a bag packed for this instance, grabbed it and ran. My wife is undiagnosed but I'm sure she has BPD or a delusional disorder. She believes doctors are trying to kill or maim her. Even counselors are involved in a conspiracy to deny her care. She believes that her electronic health records contain information that she has harmed children, thereby causing doctors to want to harm her.

As you can see this is extreme stuff. It has only transpired in the last couple of years after a botched surgery and numerous trips to doctors. She has exhibited the usual BPD stuff in the years preceding, which to me, if that's all there was, would be tolerable. The stress from all she has experienced has only fuelled her paranoia to the utmost.

One of my daughters told me she thought my wife has BPD eight years ago. I should have investigated more then. Instead it took an event where she bought a gun and threatened to kill herself a year ago. I had her committed for evaluation and she has not forgiven me since then, making my life a living hell. She has 3 or 4 phone friends which enable her delusions and undermine any sense I could try to encourage her with.

So much more to tell. 37 years and I think I have to kiss it goodbye. When morning comes I am going to make some phone calls and see.what my options are.

As I said, I've been around for about a year. So many familiar stories here. I feel like I know you all. Thanks for listening.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lalathegreat]

Welcome to the family No Words. Pleased to “meet” you, I wish it weren’t under these circumstances.

It sounds like you are going about this wisely - taking some space to reflect and calling to get your options clearly explained. You say you took your bag and ran, is your wife aware this decision may be coming?

I also found with my ex that his friends reinforced his erroneous thinking. I truly believe this was because he could be so convincing and was only telling them HIS distorted perception of mine (or other people’s) actions. Unfortunately, once bolstered, it only helped keep him locked in his dysfunction.

Keep posting on the forums, I’ve found the support to be invaluable!

Lala

[No Words]

Welcome to the family No Words. Pleased to “meet” you, I wish it weren’t under these circumstances.

It sounds like you are going about this wisely - taking some space to reflect and calling to get your options clearly explained. You say you took your bag and ran, is your wife aware this decision may be coming?

I also found with my ex that his friends reinforced his erroneous thinking. I truly believe this was because he could be so convincing and was only telling them HIS distorted perception of mine (or other people’s) actions. Unfortunately, once bolstered, it only helped keep him locked in his dysfunction.

Keep posting on the forums, I’ve found the support to be invaluable!

Lala

Thank you Lala for your reply. I have watched your story unfold and can just feel every emotion you have shared. I really hope the best for you and your recovery.

I'm not sure if my wife understands how resolute I am at the moment. I think she may have her own line in the sand that I have crossed by  simply stating that I am unsure of what is in her electronic health records. Every time I do this she wails like a banshee and  today clawed her fingers into my face. This is the norm for the past year. Choking, clawing, hitting, screaming like she's burning in hell. I do my best not to invalidate her but I can't validate the invalid. About two weeks ago she took a hiking stick and swung it like a baseball bat upside my head and torso. Gave me a concussion for sure. We never had anything happen close to this for the first 35 years of our marriage.

I called one of her friends and said stop agreeing with her belief that her medical records have information that she is a child offender. She has no history of that as you know. He and two other of her friends are aquainted and sometimes talk to each other. One friend called her that night and reinforced her belief, the one I confronted called the next day and did as much. They believe her because she knows a lot of Bible scripture and says prayers like no one else can.  They think she is a saint and I am the unscriptural dolt in their eyes. I'm unsaved and going to hell.

I don't really want to separate, I want to see her whole. Seems very unlikely in light of the fact she thinks she is normal and doesn't need help.

[formflier]

No Words,

Paranoia sucks... .really bad.  Do you have a therapist for you?  I ask this because finding a T that has experience with paranoia is critical either for detaching or for staying.  Although likely more critical for staying.

Here is the thing... .many of the effective strategies to calm things down are counter-intuitive.  Many of the things we "nons" do to "help" actually poor fuel on the fire.

Sadly, paranoia is central to whatever issues trouble my wife.  Many years of trial & error, books and some therapy have helped me understand the limits of my "power" to calm the relationship dynamic.

For me, once I got rid of invalidation, much of the big paranoid stuff went away.  What does that look like?  So... let's say my wife thinks I have a child with another woman... .and I introduced her to that child at a McDonalds.  I was able to "prove" that it wasn't my child.  In my world that was a "win".  In my wife's "world" it "proved" that I was untrustworthy and that the "depths" I would go to in order to hide my stuff from her was so much worse than she ever imagined... .since I clearly manipulated her and this situation... .or something like that.

So... .the truth about the medical records for your wife doesn't matter... .how she feels about it is the critical thing and your response to those feelings.

It also rings true for my experience that a stressful event, in your case a medical event, seems to have "launched" the paranoia.  Natural disaster in my case.

Listen... as you know (since you have been lurking for a while), we are no here to tell you to stay or to go.  I am going to tell you that it appears you have a tough road ahead, even if you get a T in place and can do things "right" for a long time.

Very likely your relationship can get much better.  It's unlikely a "full cure" can be found (lots of literature on paranoia... very few stores of full cure).

Something has kept you together for a long time.  Something else has brought you to the point of considering walking away.  I would advise taking time and space to sort things out... for you.

   

Oh yeah... medical records... .my wife has a magical piece of paper that "clears her" and says it's all my fault.  I've never seen it... .my life got better when I stopped discussing it.

Remember... it's not the "truth of the matter"... .that matters.

FF

[Lucky Jim]

Hey No Words, Welcome!  I'm glad that you've decided to come out of the shadows.  This forum provides a safe place to let BPD issues out into the clear light of day.  It makes a big difference, I find, to join in the discussions and realize that you are not alone in relation to this terrible disorder.  We "get" it!  I'm sorry to hear about the situation that you find yourself and give you credit for taking the first steps to make changes in your life.  Fill us in some more, when you feel like it.

LuckyJim

[toomanydogs]

Hi No Words, 

Welcome to the boards! As FormFlier (  FF) as said, we aren't here to advise you either way, but boy can we provide support, whatever you decide to do.

I came on the boards in summer and quickly cycled through Improving a Relationship to Conflicted to Breakup and am now in Legal Divorce and whatnot.

The paranoia that FF references and that you've seen manifested in my r'ship with my H (soon to be ex, I hope). His paranoia primarily centered/centers on people stealing from him, including my stealing from him and his father stealing from him.

I am sorry the relationship between you and your wife is so strained, but happy that you're here.

TMD

[Cat Familiar]

Yep, as FF said, there's not much you can do to counter the paranoia. My BPD mother also had paranoia and once she got an idea in her head, no amount of evidence could convince her otherwise. I took my mother to an appointment to write a trust. Days later she told me that I was conspiring with the attorney and that we were going to throw her out on the street with nothing. And to cap it off, while we were in the office, the secretary gave her an injection of some mind-altering substance. She believed this scenario for years.

As you know, BPD and paranoia is a really tough mix to live with. And add religion and a sense of righteousness--and other people to support her position--well that's rough.

Knowledge is power. Now you see your situation clearly, you have choices. None of them are easy. You'll figure out what path is best for you.  

[DogMan75]

I also found with my ex that his friends reinforced his erroneous thinking. I truly believe this was because he could be so convincing and was only telling them HIS distorted perception of mine (or other people’s) actions. Unfortunately, once bolstered, it only helped keep him locked in his dysfunction.

Oh boy, do I know this one. They even all came and moved all of her stuff out of our place once while I was at work, like a battered woman evacuation (the irony). I’ll never know what was said, but they hated me for whatever she told them about me. I hated them for a long time too, until I realized there was really no possible way they could know the truth of the situation with her as their only source of information. Man, did that suck.

[No Words]

I get that I'll never convince my wife that her beliefs aren't real. And yes actual proof shows you are   unrustworthy in her mind. Mostly things have been going smoothly. I haven't invalidated but when she speaks to our daughters one of them invariably will. Therefore she's angry and it's my job to "correct" them. I keep telling her they are adults and I'm not going to be part of a triangular relationship. When she trys to talk to the daughters about that stuff at all they just hang up leaving her in a foul mood.

Some things going on that are reducing my (our?) quality of life:

1 I'm retired and she's disabled, we are together 24/7.
2 Her believing her electronic health records are filled with lies of being a child offender overwhelms her 24/7.
3 Her continually wanting me to "fix" above situation. She has tried calling the FBI, lawyers, and a private investigator. I think all she hears are crickets chirping on the line.
4 This is all she talks about from the time we get up to the time we go to bed.
5 She wakes up in terror most nights because of this.
6 Nothing is more important than this situation.
7 Her mistrust of Drs, dentists, etc has us traveling to Mexico frequently for substandard care.

I have applied for some part-time work and most likely will look for a therapist as well. I suggested in the past that I was going to talk to a therapist. She claimed all I was going to do was complain about her. We ended up moving to be closer to Mexico so there was no time for that then.

Thanks for all the replies. Because of our 24/7 together situation I couldn't risk getting caught posting here previously.

[formflier]

So... .to clarify... you don't need to "convince" your wife of anything.  It would be good if she "understands" that you aren't going to be involved... .(as you have written)

So... that would mean no trips to Mexico (for you).  Let her do what she wants...

If you could ask your adult children to disengage... .that would help as well.

"(whatever they call her), we've already talked about that issue.  Would you like me to bring lemonade next time I stop by?"

Very important it's non-judgmental... .just don't engage.

I'm not saying it will fix anything... .but it will likely turn down the temp.

FF

[donkey2016]

Hello No Words,

I'm truly sorry to hear about your difficult situation. Good that you're taking steps to improve your life. I also experienced that my ex's friends would reinforce his distorted beliefs and I first realizing this now when reading your posts and the answers to your post. I was very hurt when that happened. He had a female friend who also became my friend. I reached out to her when my ex threatened with suicide and other threats. My ex claimed (we were still kind of together then) that our friend have told him that I was just using men and that she was feed-up with me and never wanted to hear from me again. Also that she would have told her adult children not to answer the phone if I called. I miss her more then him. I don't want to contact her since I don't want to bother her either it's true or not. So probably it was him telling her that I'm only using men - and her maybe agreeing with him. Plus he would bring this up again in a situation when I complain about all the work I had to do to help him.

It gets better when you're free from the stress of being with a person like that - but I starting to realize that it's going to time to heal.
donkey2016

[Radcliff]

Hello No Words,  I'm sorry for all the grief you are going through, but am glad you've found some peace to regroup.  Hopefully this is a nonissue, but you mentioned:

she bought a gun and threatened to kill herself a year ago.

I'm assuming it got taken care of back then, but can you verify that she no longer has access to a firearm?  Just making sure... .

WW

[No Words]

Hopefully this is a nonissue, but you mentioned:I'm assuming it got taken care of back then, but can you verify that she no longer has access to a firearm?  Just making sure... .

WW

I had the gun hidden in the attic of our old house until we recently moved. With the stress of moving long distance I had forgotten to hide it again, so now she has it hidden from me.

This is the biggest reason I am staying in a hotel. I will not live under the same roof with her having access to the firearm. If enough time passes I think she will hand it over. I just hope she does it before I sign a lease on an apartment.

[Radcliff]

OK No Words, I'm glad I asked.  I grew up with guns, and they can be fine in the right situations, but this is not one of them.  You are wise to be out of the house.  For those of us who live with unstable people, we are constantly assessing the risk of bad things happening, whether they are emotional blowups, cancelled vacations, or physical violence.  We get pretty good at it.  We often can predict when something bad is about to happen.  Until we get it wrong and get surprised.

A history of mental illness with paranoia, suicide threats including the purchase of a gun, escalating problems, and a recent assault.  And while you leaving is a smart thing, that also is one of the most dangerous periods for domestic violence.  I would encourage you to take the MOSAIC survey.  It gives you a risk score at the end, but just going through the questions themselves is a learning experience.  If you are comfortable sharing, let us know what your score is.

Where am I going with this?  I would think hard about how to address the risk of that gun, and get some help.  Put a time clock on things.  If you can stay in a hotel for a while longer and she gives it back to you in a safe way, great (although I'm having a hard time thinking about how you could possibly get that weapon back from her in a safe way).  Consider filing a police report on the assault and the missing firearm.  Or simply walk into the police station and say that things are safe for the moment, but you could use some advice.  Consider contacting a local domestic violence agency or hotline and see if they have any suggestions.  One option might be for the police to conduct what's called a "civil standby" where they come to your house and talk to your wife, keeping an eye on her, while you and a couple of buddies search the house for the weapon.  But the first step is to talk to them.  There is a very good chance you'll find them helpful, since they'd much rather head off trouble than respond to a tragedy.  Bottom line -- that gun should be a top priority, and I'm hard pressed to think of a good option that doesn't involve asking the police for advice.

Finally, if you find the darn thing, sell it back to the gun store for whatever meager sum they will give you.  It needs to be gone for good.

Do any other members have thoughts on this?

WW

[toomanydogs]

A history of mental illness with paranoia, suicide threats including the purchase of a gun, escalating problems, and a recent assault.  And while you leaving is a smart thing, that also is one of the most dangerous periods for domestic violence.  I would encourage you to take the MOSAIC survey.  

I am in total agreement. I took MOSAIC to assess my own risk, and I don't recall my score offhand, but it was high enough that the only way I will talk with my soon-to-be-ex is with others present and his not being on the property.
I also agree that getting the police involved is the safest option.
 TMD

[Harley Quinn]

Hi No Words,

Just to follow WW's reply to you.  It's good to hear that you are no longer in the home at the moment.  That's a wise decision under the circumstances. 

When we are in these situations with people we love and care about, it is sometimes more difficult to see the weight of the risks involved.  If she were a friend's wife and you became aware of her disorder and the fact that she is paranoid and possesses a gun you would take that very seriously indeed.  It can be hard to imagine that someone we know and care for would do something unimaginable, and I'm sure that before you were hit repeatedly with the hiking stick that is not something you thought your wife would do.   

I don't wish to frighten you, but it is important that you do seek help on this and I'm inclined to agree that this will likely involve the police.  If you're more comfortable with the approach of contacting a local DV helpline first, then do so and take advice from them.  They deal with complex situations all the time and will know the protocol for such things. 

Safeguard yourself, your wife and anyone else who may be around her by prioritising removal of this weapon in a considered and above all safe way.  Doing so will give you an opportunity to actually rest easily in the knowledge that she is safe and so is everyone else, including and especially yourself.  Then you can figure out your next steps without constant worry, which will make a big difference, I'm sure. 

Love and light x