Is it different this time...and why?

[madeline7]

I am struggling with another NC round with my elderly uBPDm.
In the past 1-2 years, I have "chosen" to go NC for various periods of time, usually after being subjected to fits of rage by my Mom, often time after setting a boundary.
This time, there was no limit setting by me, no overt rage by her, just a week long emotional unraveling which is commonplace. After she stopped talking to me, it was suggested by various family members (including my husband) that I no longer attend a family get together. My husband was worried about my anxiety level and my family thought it best not to bring tension into someone else's home. But I feel  it was different this time because I did not choose to stay home, I wanted to attend the gathering. My family is not in denial about my Mom, they know she is unstable and irrational and has BPD traits.

So where does this leave me? Now my uBPDm and my FOO filled to the brim with enablers are in agreement that I am the one who should be excluded. I am expecting my first grandchild in the spring and feel so angry and sad that this drama is taking up space where joy and excitement should be.

[HappyChappy]

Hey Madeline,

Having been NC myself, I understand how frustrating this must be for you. Sounds like an element of NC or strong boundary setting is helpful to you.

I know my BPD tried hard to stop everyone in my family contact me, simply as retaliation, so that sounds about right.  You say that your BPD mom is surrounded by enablers, so could this simply be the reason they all agree with your BPD on this point ?

When you say where does this leave you, what do you think would be best for you ? In terms of your family of origin, I’m guessing they aren’t going anywhere, so does the issue need resolving today or can you put it on the back burner whilst you enjoy your grandchild ? From your brief description it does sound like you FOO are genuinely concerned for you, which is good. If their concern is you get anxious with your mother, then why not work on that, and when the time is right come back and demonstrate that is not the real issue ? So what are your thoughts on where this leaves you and what do you think the best approach should be ? 

[Fie]

Hello Madeline 

I want to give you a big hug.     It's so frustrating to be excluded, when *they* are the problem, not you. I know how you feel ... .my FOO is doing the same to me.

What is it exactly you find the most distressing ? Do you feel lonely and abandoned because of their NC ? Or are you more worried about your mum, who's elderly ?

xxx

[madeline7]

My husband is the one concerned with my emotional health, my FOO does not seem to care as much since they are willingly enabling a pwBPD to create chaos which leaves me excluded. The thing that is distressing me is that my FOO is so dysfunctional, and they mostly care more about enabling someone they acknowledge is mentally unstable rather than supporting me. I think they feel guilt about the pwBPD being elderly, as do I to some degree. But the enabling and unhealthy patterns were set many many years ago when she was young and had her companion by her side. So basically, if I enable I am in, if I set limits I am out of the family. My feelings towards my Mom and FOO are so confusing and ambivalent, I feel very unsupported by them but very loved by my nuclear family and chosen friends. The big issue for me is this, the FOO is all local, and feel somehow responsible that if I continue NC that it will impact my young adult children who will miss out on family gatherings. But some element of NC is healthy for me at this point.

[Fie]

Hi Madeline,

I see.
You have been NC before, and you are saying it was beneficial for you.
What makes you doubt more this time ? The fact that you feel that the NC is actually coming from them ?

I understand what you are saying about NC and your children.
I have felt tremendous guilt around that myself. I have one fantastic child, and a FOO that is completely dysfunctional. As weird as it may sound, I have felt guilty (a lot) about the NC initiated by my FOO, towards my child. I have let some pretty unhealthy things happen because of this guilt - both unhealthy for my child, and for me.

I now see it differently. And I can almost not understand anymore why I have ruminated soo much about this in the past. My daughter needs a healthy environment. My FOO cannot offer this to her. Exit FOO.

[madeline7]

Fie, bingo... .I feel it is different because this NC is coming from FOO and not from me.
And I have to believe it could be different if I lived away from the family or didn't have kids and a soon to be grandchild adding to my feelings of guilt. I am having a hard time accepting that this is the family I have to deal with.

[madeline7]

Happy Chappy, you asked what would be best for me. That is the age old question and I feel like it is a no win situation for me. Set limits= good initially for me but with consequences that affect my kids. Enable= Bad for me but my kids have a connection to cousins, etc. There is no possible way to have LC with this uBPDm without if affecting me adversely. Heavy sigh.

[Fie]

Maybe try to put yourself in the shoes of your children. Difficult, I know, but still.

What would you prefer :

scenario 1 :  - unhealthy family, stress
                   - contact with cousins
                   - unhappy mum

scenario 2 :  - happy mum
                   - no contact with family

Doing this exercise, do give yourself credit. You are by no means perfect. Some of us are able to deal with BPD and still live happily and quite stressless. I am not one of them (unfortunately).

[madeline7]

I do appreciate the breakdown of the 2 scenarios. I guess I still wish there could be a middle ground, but my uBPDm had created a toxic and impossible environment for me, and that leaves me with the scenario where I am less stressed and I do know that my kids want that as well. They are very grounded and intuitive and even they can see how dysfunctional the family dynamics are. Thank you for your insights.

[HappyChappy]

My feelings towards my Mom and FOO are so confusing and ambivalent, I feel very unsupported by them but very loved by my nuclear family and chosen friends. The big issue for me is this, the FOO is all local, and feel somehow responsible that if I continue NC that it will impact my young adult children who will miss out on family gatherings. But some element of NC is healthy for me at this point.

This was the very same aspect I found hardest to deal with. It does sound like your BPD has singled you out as the scapegoat. This is extremely effective at  deflect blame from the BPD,  because everyone else in the FOO dynamic support it out of fear, they don’t want to take any more heat.  So don’t take it personally and yes, it is very wrong and dysfunctional for you. The group will maintain it out of fear and “don’t rock the boat” mentality. Humans naturally avoid change unless absolutely necessary. My Therapist’s help in this respect, by getting me to accept I probably can not change the dynamic, so I need to step outside of it. Also that we all need to take an unjust hit every now and then. Easier said than done, but I am now LC and it works well for me.

My kids did not want to see their BPD because she triangulated them, they were scared of her. Here’s the odd thing though, my BPD was very abusive to me when young and scared the living daylights out of all my friends. Not one of them could understand why on earth I would want any connection with my BPD. But I did, because we only have one mom. After therapy, I now understand what my friends were saying. So the LC is only to be polite. I appreciate your situation is different, and yet similar, but I’m sure you will find a way.  You have identified a dysfunctional group, so you are ahead of many, and you have stepped outside of that and set up healthy boundaries for you and your family. Sound right to me.

One other point of interest, is that when I left home my BPD made my sister the scapegoat almost immediately. When my Dad died, as he and I were the fixers the givers in that dynamic every other member went LC on each other. So maybe in time you will reconnect with some members. I hope this helps and have a great New Year.

[Fie]

Pity about the cousins, I do understand. My daughter missed her oldest cousin sometimes.
I told her that cousins will always be welcome at our place. And that when my daughter is older, she can probably also go visit her cousins by herself, they will also be older and won't need their mom's permission anymore to meet my child.

My child like yours understands more then I realize sometimes. She said : 'Ok mum, but by that time it'll be probably too late.  My cousin will be like her mother then.' 

I focus on other people now. My daughter knows she can invite her friends at home, everyone is always welcome. I think that helps her.

[Highlander]

Hi madeline7,

I really feel for you.  I have a uBPD/NPD MIL and I spend many a nights helping my dear H through his nights full of nightmares of losing his entire FOO to his mother's gaslighting and lies about him and about me.  He has now gone NC with her but we have since heard about the rumours being spoken about around his FOO.  We sit back with all of the 'rock hard' evidence in the world to prove (texts, documents, recordings), without a doubt that she is lying to them all and have spoken about bringing it all into light.  But H then concludes:  "What's the point".  None of the FOO approached him to ask him for his side of the story, so are they really worth it anyway?

Happy Chappy has a huge point: 

One other point of interest, is that when I left home my BPD made my sister the scapegoat almost immediately. When my Dad died, as he and I were the fixers the givers in that dynamic every other member went LC on each other. So maybe in time you will reconnect with some members. I hope this helps and have a great New Year.

The best thing we have found from NC in comparison to LC is that because my uBPD MIL thrives on drama and conflict, in NC, she naturally had no choice but to refocus her negativeness towards other victims.  Whereas, during LC and as strong as our boundaries were, simply being in her life fed her desire for drama and upsets whereby a simple smile towards her was taken to be 'sarcastic'.  My experience tells me that Happy Chappy is right... .given time, some members of you FOO may well become her current victims and this may lead to their return to you.

As far as children are concerned?  When I met dear H, his daughter was 2.  He was upset that his mother, although lives close to his daughter, wanted nothing to do with his child (her first grandchild) and often spoke about ways he could try and get his mother interested in his daughter's life.  Both myself and all H's therapists did not encourage this, often telling him why would you want someone in your daughter's life that can manipulate her, play games with her head and use her against other adults.  HIs daughter is now 14 and H now thanks me profusely for never encouraging him to push her grandmother to spend time with his daughter.

Listening to other people's stories on this forum site, having a BPD grandparent uninterested in your children really is the easy way out... .other's here have to formulate ways to keep their BPD parents away from poisoning their children.

Best of Luck madeline7.

It helped for my H to sit down and write out the pros and cons for having his mother in his life and his daughters life.  When he visually saw the length of the list in the benefits column of keeping her NC, he began to heal and his nightmares have reduced.

[madeline7]

I appreciate all the good feedback and insights from you all! What a great support. My situation is hard for me because my FOO understands that my uBPDm is mentally ill and yet continues to enable her causing me to be pushed out. Even though, I too sit there with concrete proof in the form of texts and VM, and it is frustrating because it does not do any good to state my case. The family knows the score, and I agree with an earlier post that says they just don't want to take the heat. The other challenge right now is that I am expecting my first grandchild and really wanted to have a "semblance" of a family so my daughter and grandbaby would have family gatherings to attend. I feel that by staying NC, it will have an adverse effect on my daughter and soon to be grandbaby. How will it "look" to finally really go NC when my Mom is elderly and a new grandchild is on the way. I am between a rock and a hard place. I am so much more aware of how things are and am moving towards acceptance, this is just a bitter pill to swallow.

[Fie]

Both myself and all H's therapists did not encourage this, often telling him why would you want someone in your daughter's life that can manipulate her, play games with her head and use her against other adults.  HIs daughter is now 14 and H now thanks me profusely for never encouraging him to push her grandmother to spend time with his daughter.

I so much agree with this. You are a mother. You need to give your child the best possible. Unfortunately that may mean, keep her away from your own mum. It's a personal choice but a very healthy one, at least that's what I think.

You suffered from your mother's behavior already. You are really under no obligation to impose this same suffering on the generations behind you.

really wanted to have a "semblance" of a family so my daughter and grandbaby would have family gatherings to attend.

A small family is also a family. For me a smaller healthy family is to be preferred over a big family that will cause mental problems for your child/grandchild. What makes you think that you are not good enough to be the family your daughter / granddaughter need ? Why do you think you have to add some unhealthy FOO in the mix ?

I suffered a lot from the NC of my parents. Now I am happy that they are not in my daughter's life. This damn guilt feeling ... .it kept me from seeing things clear.
My daughter will get the chance to grow up free from BPD. I think that's one of the best things I could have provided for her. Unfortunately I didn't see that some time ago. But fortunately my mum's vision is so blurred that she cut me off - and with that her grandchild.

Unless my mum goes into therapy ... .I do not want her near my daughter ever again.

[madeline7]

Thank you Fie for your words. I found myself nodding my head in approval as I read your words. You are so right. When I supported my sister through her divorce when she had a young child, I told her that sometimes 2 happy homes is better than 1 unhappy home for her son. Now why didn't I translate that concept for me. The answer lies in the FOG. Always thinking of what I "should" be doing, especially what others would think I should be doing. It seems so easy, yet is so hard. I am thankfully aware, my eyes are wide open, and I am moving in the direction of health for myself and my children.