How to deal with an ex?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I don't know how to deal with my ex. For the past 10+ years I have been jumping through every hoop so that she doesn't follow through on her threats to take the children away. During our relationship, and after, I have been physically, emotionally, mentally, and financially abused. There are times when we get along, but then something will snap in her and for no apparent reason I have done everything wrong. Now she says that I am suffering from narcissistic personality disorder and need help.  Of course she think that she is my biggest ally and can help me find a therapist. But in reality, she is the main problem in my life. I have just recently started to set boundaries on our interactions, but she doesn't like that at all and sees it as another sign that I am mentally ill.
I really don't know how to proceed. She will NEVER admit that there is anything wrong with her.  Meanwhile, she has alienated the rest of her family. And I worry about the children, who are teenagers now and I am sure they see that things aren't right.

[Yvonne T]

I don't know how to deal with my ex. For the past 10+ years I have been jumping through every hoop so that she doesn't follow through on her threats to take the children away. During our relationship, and after, I have been physically, emotionally, mentally, and financially abused. There are times when we get along, but then something will snap in her and for no apparent reason I have done everything wrong. Now she says that I am suffering from narcissistic personality disorder and need help.  Of course she think that she is my biggest ally and can help me find a therapist. But in reality, she is the main problem in my life. I have just recently started to set boundaries on our interactions, but she doesn't like that at all and sees it as another sign that I am mentally ill.
I really don't know how to proceed. She will NEVER admit that there is anything wrong with her.  Meanwhile, she has alienated the rest of her family. And I worry about the children, who are teenagers now and I am sure they see that things aren't right.

[david]

Boundaries are the first thing you need to establish. Think them through and figure out what works best for you and the kids. Document everything that has been happening as far as you seeing the kids. How often ? is there a schedule and what is it, etc.
Do you have documentation ( emails, text messages, etc) that have ex saying she will take the kids away. Save them all.
Teenagers have a say on where they want to live. Talk to an attorney.

[david]

I only communicate with my ex through email. This way everything is in writing.

[columme]

You and I sound similar.

I'd recommend setting boundaries slowly. Where you think you need boundaries, think about it and make a plan on how to slowly change things. If you do it abruptly it'll be a fight because she'll see it as a rejection/abandonment.

I am in the process of re-doing some boundaries. I have begged my kids Mom to not ambush me at pick up and drop offs or school events. She uses these times to either bash me or tell me information or use that cryptic manipulative communication style. It's annoying and always keeps me on edge. Depending on my mood it can trigger me.

A recent example was, I go to pick up our kid on Friday. The mom sits at the top of her stairs and asks me, "what time tomorrow?". She rarely does this. It's always been a noon exchange. In fact, if I'm late or push beyond that time, she'll be crummy about it. She goes, "12 or 1". I'm like 12 sounds great. I was looking forward to having some me time this weekend after.

My kid gets here and is like, we bought a new couch and she's getting it tomorrow. So it dawns on me that she was trying to push the time until 1pm. A normal person would have said, "I have something to get done in the morning, can you keep her until 1pm?". Pretty straight forward request.

My kid exchanges texts with her Mom and her Mom says she'll pick her up at 1. I don't really care either way. I just find it annoying and irritating that a simple exchange has to be so complicated. It's crap.

[zachira]

How nerve racking and heartbreaking to have an ex that is constantly threatening to not let you see the children anymore! I hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions so I can better understand your situation. What is the custody agreement regarding the children? Does she actually have the power to not let you see the children anymore? How old are the children? What is your relationship with the children and how do they feel about her? There are steps that you take that can limit the power that her threats have on you, though it is hard to say without knowing more about your situation. There are many people on this site who have gone through difficult breakups and extreme anxiety about continuing to be in their children's lives. Please keep up posted and let us know how we can help!

[Yvonne T]

Thanks for the responses!
When the kids were younger, we did have a set schedule. But there were times where she would refuse to let me have them when it was my time. I documented everything for seven years. I stopped after she took two of the three kids and moved across the country. I stopped because she was gone and my life was calmer. I always said that the day she moved away was the best and worst day of my life. I lost my kids but didn't have to put up with her anymore. Two years later she moved back with them and things were mostly fine until last fall. Before she moved I worked with an attorney to set up some sort of parenting plan. She would never agree to anything and ducked the process server several times.

One child is biologically mine and two are biologically hers. Both of our names are on all three birth certificates. There is no custody agreement. We were never legally married because this was all before gay marriage was legal. Because we weren't married, when we separated there was no requirement for a custody agreement. I don't think she would have signed one anyways. Compromise to her was that she have total custody of all three boys and I would see them every other weekend. I was their primary caregiver and this was not acceptable to me. So one lived with me and two lived with her. When they were younger, she would threaten that I couldn't see them if there was something, anything, she didn't like. For example, all of the windows in my house had to have locks on them or they couldn't be there. But none of the windows in her house had to have locks. I consider all three kids mine and feel I have parental rights because I am legally their mother.  She always refers to the two that she carried as HER kids. I am not allowed to make any decisions about them, even though I carry them on my health and auto insurance and I am the one that pays all of their school fees.

The good news is that the kids are teenagers now. The oldest is 17 and the twins are 15. The twins were the ones that were gone for two years. They have been back for a little over two years now. I feel that I have a good relationship with all of them. It is harder right now to see and talk to the twins because they live with her and she is very controlling of their schedules. When she and I are at odds, I don't see or talk to them much. I try to reach out to them on a daily basis, but they are teenagers and don't always respond. The twins have to deal with her daily and when she lashes out at them, they get mad and upset because often there is no reason for her fury. One of them will argue and fight back. The other shuts down and hardly speaks.  The oldest has been aware of her issues since he was 12 and I put him in therapy because he didn't want to be around her. Then she left him behind in her move across country. He is in therapy again now and on antidepressant meds.

I know that they are all old enough to decide who they want to live with. There is NO way that she would ever let the twins come live with me. And if they were asked to make a choice, I don't think that they would or could. I know that they love me and know that it is calmer at my house. But I don't think that they are strong enough to choose to leave her.

The last issue with her was about MY birthday. After starting out the day with a nice text, later in the day she accused me of stabbing her in the back. In front of the twins. Not the first time she has put me down in front of them. So I left. But she followed that up with MANY texts, calling me names, questioning my actions, just all around mean. Then the next day she expected me to go out to dinner with her and the kids for my birthday. When I told her no, well that started a whole additional round of condescending texts, specifically how I was damaging all of the kids. 

Since then I have tried to limit my contact with her.  I would get sucked in to thinking everything was fine because she was acting well. But then something little would set her off. I have walked out of therapy sessions for our oldest when she starts to attack me instead of focusing on helping him. When she calls, I don't always answer the phone. When she gets on her texts attacks, of which there was a HUGE one today (57 to be exact), I try not to read them. But it is emotionally draining. It was my therapist who suggested that she might be uBPD (she knows her because she was our couples therapist when we were trying to work things out many years ago).

I guess the hardest part is knowing that she will never admit that there is anything wrong with her. As far as she is concerned, everything that is wrong is because of me.  I need to find a way to protect my own emotional and psychological self but still be there for the kids.

[columme]

That experience sounds like emotional torture. She moved away, she came back, things are ok, things are not. Up and down, left and right. Ugh. Sorry.

The only time my kids Mom can impact me is when I am interacting with her. For many years, I like you thought, if I just be cool and go with the flow, things would change, but it never changed. In all of the 9 years I have been involved with this woman, she has consistently been inconsiderate.

It's painful. It's a painful experience. Emotionally, I was heavily invested in the experience. It wasn't until recently, I realized, after a solid year of extreme anxiety, that I have to pull back. I have to step back and see the pattern here. There is always a pattern.

I was reading an article here that said that people with this affliction can see you as just an object to use. And I believe that is 100%. The only time I hear from my kids Mom is when SHE needs something and that mostly has to do with impacting my routine and schedule with our daughter.

The only other time she engages me is during pick up and drop offs or school events. She'll use this time to either poke, complain, or attack me. Other than that, it is really black and white. The only time she is nice and considerate is when SHE wants something.  Like a little kid.

Also, the surprise attacks. The last minute dumps. The chaotic calls and needs. All these years, I suffered as a parent because in my heart, I wanted to do everything I could to be the best parent for my kid, so she'd call, I'd jump. I didn't want my kid to think I didn't love her when her Mom called because that is the message Mom would deliver.

I am going to use some of the material on this site to handle the conflicts to reduce them or disengage and study the BIFF method. I realize today, disengaging and having the tools to side step the BS and save my sanity is what I have to do regardless of the impact I can't control.

[rj47]

Having limited contact can be a challenge, especially if you hope to avoid conflict. My ex could not respect boundaries and continued to attack. It still hurt. Mostly triggering anxiety attacks. But I did not let myself react. Had to simply let it roll off. I stopped reading, stopped responding, would hang up if she was ranting, walked away; refused to engage until she calmed down. I finally had some control that I could never exercise while a prisoner. Without the reward of the old reactions from me I think she must have grown weary with it. Its much better now. She actually tries to be nice mostly. Throws a few subtle and indirect rocks at me occasionally, but its not the problem it was.

[ForeverDad]

The others have made excellent observations.  Jumping through hoops is appeasement fails all too soon, being compliant and reasonable also doesn't work because there is little or no reciprocation of our efforts.  In short, the solution is to deal with the person as he or she is, not as you want him or her to be.  After all, despite years of effort there has been no progress, likely it got even worse over time.  Firm boundaries of behavior are important.  Not boundaries as you may initially view them.  In a way, they're not boundaries for the other person.  (After all, the person doesn't really respect boundaries.)  They're boundaries for You, in this way... ."If you do or don't do ____ then I will do or not do ____."  The only person you can make do something is Yourself!  So in essence your stated boundaries are how you respond to the other's behaviors, whether good, bad or in between.  Does that make sense?  We have articles here describing boundaries.  Henry Cloud is an author highlighted here who wrote the book Boundaries.

Of course, another goal you should have is to avoid needlessly trigger overreactions in the ex.  So ponder your boundaries.  While you want to "Stop Walking on Eggshells" (by Randi Kreger) you need balance so you're not stomped upon either.

[david]

Not reacting and being as boring as can be takes the "fun/need" out of it.
I actually got rid of texting years back and had email only communication in our court order. I would not answer my phone if it was her calling. She realized that and started calling me from various phones so I wouldn't know it was her. She only wanted to yell/rage/rant when she called so I stopped answering my phone unless the number was in my cell phonebook. Eventually I got texting back. She found out and brought it up in a court ordered co parent counseling meeting. I explained myself and said I would simply delete any text she sent without opening it up. About 45 minutes after the meeting I received a text. I never opened it up just like I said. Boundary testing.
It took me changing my behavior for her to change her behavior. I stopped the dysfunctional dance by refusing to dance.
This started in 2007 and things have been calm for the last few years. Recently she started disregarding the court order to try to get me to respond. I quote the order and follow it. She will reply with all kinds of things. If I respond I simply quote the court order again.
A few years ago I received a call from our oldest boys' school. He was nauseous and the nurse said she tried calling his mom several times and left a voicemail. She then called me. I told the nurse I would pick him up. He went to bed as soon as we got home. He was cold and sweating. Had a temp too. I emailed ex with the info. She is a nurse. She replied by demanding I drive him to her place because it was her custodial time. I repeated basically what I said in my prior email and added that he was in bed and would remain there until tomorrow. I also told her I would let her know if/when I mead a doc appointment. A few hours later I received a call from the police wanting to know what was going on. I explained everything and the officer understood. He asked me to reach out to ex so I sent an email telling her what happened. She sent an email that she also cc'd to her attorney telling the attorney that I was in violation of the court order and wanted to proceed with going back to court. I ignored it. Nothing ever happened. I don't know if that was actually her attorneys email or not. I would have enjoyed going to court for that one.
I no longer try to reason even if it is about our kids. It didn't work before and I suspect it will never work so I have decided to accept it as it is.

[david]

Another example. We were in a custody eval. We live in different school districts and our boys go to the school in her district. I was seeking more time because ex was not helping, in any way, the boys with their school work and I couldn't do it with the time I had.
Ex insisted in one meeting that if I had the time I was seeking they would be kicked out of the school they were attending. Her logic was faulty because the way she described it the boys would not be able to go to either school district. The evaluator pointed that out. She refused to budge. The next meeting she brought proof that she was correct. It actually was proof that she was incorrect but she insisted otherwise. I sat there and let the evaluator handle it. This went round and round for about a half an hour and he finally decided he had enough and moved on.
We went to court and our order was changed to exactly what I was asking for. At the end of the hearing the judge yelled at me for about 15 minutes. I did nothing wrong but I had this happen before in court. I believe it is a way for the judge to make it appear that neither party won. My ex was satisfied as I got yelled at but the court order was changed to exactly what I was seeking. That is a win/win in court sometimes. Yes, that is a crazy as it sounds. I learned the second time I got yelled at by the judge that things were going well for me.