Ex Dealing With Our 8 Year Old Son

[Turkish]

Earlier this week my uBPDx asked me if S8 had been acting out.  No more than the usual which I deal with.  She said that last weekend he, his sister (6) and their 5 year old cousin were playing tag.  C5 kept tagging S8, he got upset. My ex told him that he needed to work and run harder because that's how you get better.  That he needed to practice of he earned to win.  Here I have trouble because she sounded reasonable communicating it to me,  but I remember her often tone with me,  which communicated what's wrong with you? Shaming.

She said that S8 got upset and told her she was a "stupid mommy." Her mom was there and told her "if that were my son I know how I'd handle it." Yeah. Smack the crap out of him. I agreed with her that that was unacceptable for him to say that.  She seemed to struggle how to handle it.

Today she told me about our son being taken advantage of by another kid in summer camp. She got frustrated that he believed the other kids about an exchange (juice for a toy) and the kids didn't reciprocate. I agreed with her that I'd be upset seeing my kid taken advantage of and more so his inability to see it. She admitted that she got frustrated with him (projection as she doesn't trust people), but she admitted something significant: "I'm my family there was shaming."

I'll give her credit for realizing the shaming pressure from her mom last weekend and Ansari what age was implying how she viewed herself as maybe shaming our son yesterday: "why can't you see that the kid is lying to you and taking advantage of you?"

I'm hesitant to talk to her about the differences between guilt (I did something wrong) and shame (I'm a bad person) but I will.  

I read something from a recovered pwBPD: "guilt is always a constructive emotion,  and shame is always its destructive opposite. 

[takingandsending]

Hi Turkish.

Shame is a pretty huge mover in my xw’s world, and she spent decades convincing me that she had no shame and it was my issue. The level of projection is so intense that I, as an adult (albeit a codependent), couldn’t see it clearly. How much harder for an eight year old?

I am finally learning that my ex only asks me about how S7 or S12 are behaving when they do something that upsets her. Your ex asked because she wanted to justify her own feelings that she was wronged by your son, that it’s not okay for her to be called stupid. But in cases like this with my kids where I am all too often duped into taking sides, I’d miss validating the feeling that led to my son’s outburst. Namely, mom I came to you with an upset and you invalidated it which is what you do, and I am mad at you. And really, who could blame S8 for being mad with his parent at that moment?

I’m not saying it’s easy to validate your kids feelings, especially when they make you uncomfortable, but that’s usually when they need it the most. I am glad your ex shows some cognizance that she may have been shaming, but kids need support, and I have watched my ex turn possible moments to bond into her self realization, awareness aha moments that left my kids with little benefit. My advice is to keep the commiserations with the ex to a minimum and focus on how you can help your kids become emotionally resilient by validating that it must have been hard feeling like one person kept going after you during the game and how frustrating it is when a mom or dad don’t see that.

[Turkish]

Thanks takingandsending,

I think that you summarized how I need to be.  I can listen,  but stop fixing. I know that our son feels safer with me.  He told me last year, "I like it at Daddy's more because I don't get into trouble as much as I do at mommy's."

Our couples' counselor told me this one thing after she abandoned out after two single appointments, "I asked her if she trusted Men, and she said 'No'." It confirmed what I already knew.  S8 will become a man very soon.  And with me, my mom didn't get better at all when I hit the teen years.  Those were the worst, thus my concern.

Today the subject didn't come up.  She's decided to take Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu on the adult class. She asked me a favor. Since I pay for both kids by auto-deduct from my account, it world save her money to add herself rather than starting a seperate auto-pay. Families get discounts. With the math on the top of my head I said that I'd only be paying her then like $30/month child support. She said that she might owe me money.  I had been deducting the amount for 1 kid from the CS checks.

She did ask it as a favor. I quipped, "should we just get married?" She didn't react to that.  She did indicate that since she is on subsidized housing that she was worried about losing out of they audited her and found that she could afford martial arts. I said yes. She asked of I wanted to notarize the agreement.  I said it wasn't necessary,  but to send me am email with the math broken down. 

I'm making $11k more per year since the CS order was filed in 2014. Agreeing to "below guideline" support, I put the balance into the kids' college savings plans, she could go after me any time for higher support without "change of circumstances." So it's in my best interest to acquiesce to keep her happy. It doesn't cost me more $$, but it still feels weird. 

[Mutt]

Id feel weird about it too Turk does she usually usually do activities like this? If she’s happy saving money and it helps alleviate her anxiety because it’s a physical activity it’ll help you if she’s in a good mood. I think that you said that she suffers from anxiety? You’re not married you’re just doing her a favor you two have a history.

[GaGrl]

I doubt she would want to go after more CS if it endangered her subsidized housing.