is this complex ptsd?

[Depression = 72% of members]

So this week has been a rollercoaster of emotions. I found out my BPDex married the woman he replaced me with only two months after he and I had our last blow out... .Finding this out brought out some profound grief inside me. My therapist told me I had not fully grieved the relationship with him, nor had I properly grieved the trauma from my childhood. Rather than getting into the destructive thinking pattern of "why wasn't I good enough" or rather "how was I deficient so that he didn't marry me?" I decided I would sit with my grief. And so I did. And it was not just grief but very profound fear that I felt in the depths of my belly. To the point where my stomach, which under intense emotional stress usually tightens up, was shaking. My body began to shake with that fear. And it brought me back to feeling when I was a child and I think of a specific situation:
After having a very severe shouting match with BPD mom when I was 7 years old, my grandfather took me on his lap to calm me down. I remember sitting on knees and the comforting touch of an adult seemed foreign to me. I also remember sensing that he was observing me, that he was concerned about something and I felt ashamed that there was something wrong with me. Being close and comforted by an adult was something I had not experienced so I felt there was something wrong with me. The next day my mother came up to me and said:
"Your grandfather told me you were shaking yesterday while you sat on his lap. Why were you shaking?" I didn't have an answer because I had not even been aware that I had been shaking.
I remember her words so well though because a person has to be really f--ked up to do that to their child.

My grandfather did not live with us, so that was an exceptional time when I was comforted. All the other times that my mother subjected me to her emotional violence I was left to cry myself to sleep. And I remember feeling that terrible knotted stomach sensation, that sensation of shaking in my body. I remember my cat giving me comfort in those moments, and I cried into his fur.

Does anyone have any knowledge of Complex PTSD? I have been seeing a therapist but she is not big on diagnosis. While my stomach was shaking yesterday, today it was my legs. I am filled with fear and I shake. Whenever I think of going online to see what my BPDex is up to I fill with the same fear and shaking which means I never go on to check. It feels as though it makes me relive my childhood trauma of punishment and exclusion because most of the time his photos are of him moving on, and negating my very existence.

Anyone have insights on this?

[caughtnreleased]

So this week has been a rollercoaster of emotions. I found out my BPDex married the woman he replaced me with only two months after he and I had our last blow out... .Finding this out brought out some profound grief inside me. My therapist told me I had not fully grieved the relationship with him, nor had I properly grieved the trauma from my childhood. Rather than getting into the destructive thinking pattern of "why wasn't I good enough" or rather "how was I deficient so that he didn't marry me?" I decided I would sit with my grief. And so I did. And it was not just grief but very profound fear that I felt in the depths of my belly. To the point where my stomach, which under intense emotional stress usually tightens up, was shaking. My body began to shake with that fear. And it brought me back to feeling when I was a child and I think of a specific situation:
After having a very severe shouting match with BPD mom when I was 7 years old, my grandfather took me on his lap to calm me down. I remember sitting on knees and the comforting touch of an adult seemed foreign to me. I also remember sensing that he was observing me, that he was concerned about something and I felt ashamed that there was something wrong with me. Being close and comforted by an adult was something I had not experienced so I felt there was something wrong with me. The next day my mother came up to me and said:
"Your grandfather told me you were shaking yesterday while you sat on his lap. Why were you shaking?" I didn't have an answer because I had not even been aware that I had been shaking.
I remember her words so well though because a person has to be really f--ked up to do that to their child.

My grandfather did not live with us, so that was an exceptional time when I was comforted. All the other times that my mother subjected me to her emotional violence I was left to cry myself to sleep. And I remember feeling that terrible knotted stomach sensation, that sensation of shaking in my body. I remember my cat giving me comfort in those moments, and I cried into his fur.

Does anyone have any knowledge of Complex PTSD? I have been seeing a therapist but she is not big on diagnosis. While my stomach was shaking yesterday, today it was my legs. I am filled with fear and I shake. Whenever I think of going online to see what my BPDex is up to I fill with the same fear and shaking which means I never go on to check. It feels as though it makes me relive my childhood trauma of punishment and exclusion because most of the time his photos are of him moving on, and negating my very existence.

Anyone have insights on this?

[HappyChappy]

My therapist told me I had not fully grieved the relationship with him, nor had I properly grieved the trauma from my childhood... .
... .it was not just grief but very profound fear that I felt in the depths of my belly.
Anyone have insights on this?

So Sorry to hear about you shocking news. Your reaction sound undestadable, and you T probably has a point, because two months doesn't give anyone time to grieve (unless you are BPD). But on the upside, if you are away from the BPD framework you also have space to heal from your childhood.

Complex PTSD is formed by repeated  abuse often involving humiliation over a long period of time, so common among hostage victims and children who were abused. Second only to eating disorders as the most common aliment a child of a BPD would have. That said you’ve not revealed enough for a diagnosis, and no one on here could or should diagnose you. But the shaking sounds like trauma, anxiety and or stress.

The main value of diagnosis is directing therapy. CBT or EMDR are normally recommended for childhood trauma (and C-PTSD). But as your T will tell you, CBT doesn’t work if you are grieving. You need to be in a clam place without other worries interrupting you. Shaking suggest adrenaline, did you also feel hypervigelace ?

With CBT you analysis the memory, correct it, and then hopefully forget about it and go on your well adjusted way.  PTSD is a fear thing, you amplify fear and anxiety to unhealthy levels (shaking may indicated that). So in my case, my BPD use beat me, but even as a frail old lady I couldn’t be in the same room as her when triggered. Not a problem otherwise. CBT taught me to repeat over, “she’s and old frail lady, she can’t hurt you.”

We can only make suppositions, but your grandfather memory was about hankering for a reassuring hug, that special connection. By why did you feel fearful (if it was CPTSD) ? Was it because you knew your BPD would not approve, or may get jealous ?

One sticking point for me in my T, was realising that acceptance was not enough, and I needed "Radical acceptance" of my childhood. To grieve the parent I should have had (one like your grandfather maybe). Anyway, I'm just hypothesising, does any of this chime a bell, what do you think it might be ?   

[babyducks]

Hi c&r,

I have been diagnosed with a 'stress disorder most likely cptsd'.    My P also does not like to specifically diagnose saying instead "labels are something that get us close to a topic but never totally define it."    I've found over time that I agree with that thought.   People are too complex to fit neatly into diagnostic boxes.

I am going to pick up on something HappyChappy said.   The text book definition of Complex PTSD is as follows:

Complex post-traumatic stress disorder is a psychological disorder thought to occur as a result of repetitive, prolonged trauma involving sustained abuse or abandonment by a caregiver or other interpersonal relationships with an uneven power dynamic. ... /... /...   C-PTSD-like symptoms, which include prolonged feelings of terror, worthlessness, helplessness, and deformation of one's identity and sense of self.

Prolonged chronic emotional neglect, distain, contempt and abandonment by a parent creates a fear/shame response in a child.   It's nothing a child does intentionally, it's a product of the environment.

Pete Walker M.A. has written a lot on the topic of CPTSD and I would highly recommend either of his books.    Walker said this:

Parents who systematically ignore or turn their backs on a child’s calls for attention, connection or help, abandon their child to unmanageable amounts of fear which over time devolve into the child giving up and succumbing to depressed, death-like feelings of helplessness and hopelessness

and that pretty much describes my experience.    as a child I grew up with parents who were not able to effectively care for me and like you, my grandparents often arrived to 'save the day'.   that upbringing left me with a toxic inner critic who often tells me things like:

getting into the destructive thinking pattern of "why wasn't I good enough" or rather "how was I deficient so that he didn't marry me?"

for me one of the most important and eye opening facts was that with C-PTSD I am prone to emotional flashbacks, not physical flashbacks.   In PTSD it is possible to flashback to an event, the car accident, the violent episode, the war trauma, and relive it.    In C-PTSD I flash back to a set of emotions and relive them.   I react in similar ways to what you describe.   I shake, my stomach roils,  I become so fearful I tend to want to go hide under the covers in bed.

something has triggered in me an emotional memory... .usually for me it's a trigger about not being 'good enough' to be cared for and loved.   my amygdala hijacks my brain and I internally panic.    I find it to be scary and emotionally painful.  I am reliving those childhood emotions of desperately trying to figure out how to be loved, cared for and emotional safe and not being able to succeed at that.

What I have found over time that while it's a painful reaction, it's a normal one and I can 'learn' ways to integrate those emotional memories into my current life.

what do you think?

'ducks

[Kwamina]

Hi caughtndreleased

You've gotten some great responses from HapyChappy and babyducks.

I am sorry you've had this rather unsettling experience that has literally left you shaking. You specifically mention fear in your post. Pete Walker says the following about fear in relation to managing emotional flashbacks:
"Feel the fear in your body without reacting to it. Fear is just an energy in your body that cannot hurt you if you do not run from it or react self-destructively to it."

What you experienced right now with your ex so quickly moving on from you is quite significant indeed. Considering your past experiences growing up, I can see how your current experience could then trigger such strong emotional responses in you. Keeping that in mind, what is happening right now might also be an opportunity to start healing something from your past, I again quote Pete Walker here:

"Allow yourself to grieve. Flashbacks are opportunities to release old, unexpressed feelings of fear, hurt, and abandonment, and to validate - and then soothe - the child's past experience of helplessness and hopelessness. Healthy grieving can turn our tears into self-compassion and our anger into self-protection."

"Figure out what you are flashing back to. Flashbacks are opportunities to discover, validate and heal our wounds from past abuse and abandonment. They also point to our still unmet developmental needs and can provide motivation to get them met."

You've already figured out what you are flashing back to and Babyducks mentions the hijacking of the amygdala, this is how Pete Walker describes emotional flashbaks:

Emotional flashbacks are sudden and often prolonged regressions ('amygdala hijackings' to the frightening circumstances of childhood. They are typically experienced as intense and confusing episodes of fear and/or despair - or as sorrowful and/or enraged reactions to this fear and despair. Emotional flashbacks are especially painful because the inner critic typically overlays them with toxic shame, inhibiting the individual from seeking comfort and support, isolating him in an overwhelming and humiliating sense of defectiveness.

Do you feel like this describes your current experience of feeling fearful, shaking and being taken back to that time sitting on your grandfather's lap after that severe shouting match with your mother when you were only 7 years old?

Do you perhaps feel like your ex moving on, getting married and possibly posting pics, says anything about who you really are? Do you in some way perhaps feel like your ex's behavior is a reflection of your own worthiness? If your ex had not moved on so quickly, would that make you feel better you think?

[GeekyGirl]

I'm not a PTSD expert, so I can't weigh in on whether or not you have it, but I'm glad that you're reaching out for answers. 

One question: what would you change with a diagnosis? What changes would you make to your treatment plan?

[caughtnreleased]

Thanks all for your feedback.

We can only make suppositions, but your grandfather memory was about hankering for a reassuring hug, that special connection. By why did you feel fearful (if it was CPTSD) ? Was it because you knew your BPD would not approve, or may get jealous ?

Because compassion in my household was shameful. So were tears and any form of weakness. Needing a hug must've meant something was wrong with me. Those were the messages in my household. Most of the time when I cried my mother would laugh at me. I remember crying once and my mother and sister laughing at me telling me I was crying crocodile tears. I again was baffled because I did not understand what it meant.

Do you feel like this describes your current experience of feeling fearful, shaking and being taken back to that time sitting on your grandfather's lap after that severe shouting match with your mother when you were only 7 years old?

The fear that I felt is very much the same feeling of fear that I had in my childhood. So is the extreme shaking. I think I was able to dissociate from my body's shaking (which is why I didn't realize I was shaking on my grandfather's lap) so wasn't always able to realize I was shaking. But intense sadness, and fear after a major conflict with my mother were both very common things in my childhood which frequently interfered with my life because I would be left an complete and total emotional wreck and had trouble engaging with others after this. Now that I think about it, some of these similar feelings occurred with my first boyfriend. He was always triangulating and I remember experiencing sleepless nights filled with major anxiety.

Prolonged chronic emotional neglect, distain, contempt and abandonment by a parent creates a fear/shame response in a child.   It's nothing a child does intentionally, it's a product of the environment.
 
 I react in similar ways to what you describe.   I shake, my stomach roils,  I become so fearful I tend to want to go hide under the covers in bed.

something has triggered in me an emotional memory... .usually for me it's a trigger about not being 'good enough' to be cared for and loved. 

What I have found over time that while it's a painful reaction, it's a normal one and I can 'learn' ways to integrate those emotional memories into my current life.

what do you think?

'ducks

Hi Babyducks, Thank you so much for sharing your experience. It sounds very similar to what I go through when I am triggered back into that fearful state of being rejected and shamed when I have emotional needs. Not only do I become fearful but I also used to become very angry. Fear and anger go hand in hand with me. My anger has subsided somewhat in recent years and instead has made room for sadness... .so much sadness and grief. Does anyone have any mindfulness exercises to deal with these? I have tried to sit in meditation and it seems to have worked at first but the last couple of days have left me emotionally very raw. Do you handle these situations through self soothing? Do you have someone who helps your through it? I do want these feelings of shame and inadequacy that I feel especially when I am emotionally needy to subside. I believe it has caused me a lot of difficulty to connect with other healthy people. The connecting I felt with the BPDex I think was that I connected with his pain and he with mine. Ultimately the pain was stronger than both of us.

[babyducks]

hi c&r,
 

 Does anyone have any mindfulness exercises to deal with these?

I had to dig around in this site but finally found the link I was looking for here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=315252.0

It was number 8 on that list that was most effective for me.    Resist the Inner Critic's catastrophizing.  I have a virulent and toxic inner critic who tells me that any display of ~inappropriate emotion~  or ~inappropriate behavior~ (i.e. something that would have inconvenienced my unsafe person) is very nearly the end of the world and launches a full blown shame storm.

For me the shame storm or emotional flashback spirals, it starts out with one simple thought, idea, observation and then spirals downhill and out of control.    If I can slow down or resist the inner critic,  I can move away from the emotional storm and into compassionate conversation with my inner self.

I have tried to sit in meditation and it seems to have worked at first but the last couple of days have left me emotionally very raw. Do you handle these situations through self soothing?

Strangely, what helps me is exercise.  and I mean beyond the typical boost of exercise.    I was once told that while in a flash back to stand up and stretch my arms out,... make myself as big as I possible could.    That helps.    at some superficial level I feel bigger, stronger, tougher, more in control after exercise.    I don't go out and run a marathon but I do challenge myself physically in ways that I know I can accomplish.    I think it's an attempt to cultivate the feeling of success.

Do you have someone who helps your through it? I do want these feelings of shame and inadequacy that I feel especially when I am emotionally needy to subside. I believe it has caused me a lot of difficulty to connect with other healthy people. The connecting I felt with the BPDex I think was that I connected with his pain and he with mine. Ultimately the pain was stronger than both of us.

It took me a while to be able to tell people what my inner critic sounded like.   It took a while to be able to share openly with my therapist.   which I think was pretty normal.   I have one close buddy who I share with casually,   not to the same level of depth or intensity.   

I too think that is why my BPDex was such an roller coaster attachment for me.   The early idealization phase was so great at quieting my inner critic, and when the devaluation started it was like dying a thousand deaths all of them shameful.

I've gotten better at handling flashbacks.    So much better that I am doing things I wouldn't have tried a year ago.    and I would say about 70% of it has been shrinking the inner critic.

'ducks

[HappyChappy]

Because compassion in my household was shameful. So were tears and any form of weakness. Needing a hug must've meant something was wrong with me... .
... .The fear that I felt is very much the same feeling of fear that I had in my childhood. So is the extreme shaking... .But intense sadness, and fear after a major conflict with my mother. 

Ditto in my BPD family on all those points. I haven't cried since I was 10 years old, I wish I could. Looks like a great release, a bit like a hug is. Could all this be telling you its OK to cry and hug people now ? But you still have the fear your mother may laugh in your face or humiliate you if you do ? My mother laughing in my face is a lasting memory. So now you've connected the dots, how will you use this ?