Need help with decision on ex-girlfriend w/BPD

[southside420]

Over the last few days, I dove head first into education myself about BPD and the traits of it, and am trying to become informed to make a final decision on my ex-girlfriend.

I met her in August 2016 and we clicked immediately. She asked me to be her boyfriend midway through the second date and we settled into a relationship fairly quickly. Three months in was the first sign I noticed something was off. She had gone home to her parents and ended up coming back early because she was so down she could barely speak. She asked me to come over and she held onto me and cried. I took her out to eat to make her feel better, and she thanked me for helping her.

In January 2017, I lost my grandfather, who was like a father to me and my best friend, and I was devastated. She had a lot of trouble providing me emotional support, and tried to leave me one night when I saw her while he was dying in hospice because I was not talking to her enough and she felt I just wasn't interested in her anymore.

She met my family in March 2017 and they loved her, but by April, she began disliking my friends and told me I needed to stop seeing them, and by June, she had caused a rift in my social circle when she demonized and lashed out at a friend of mine, causing my other friends to take sides and our social circle to be forever impacted. The cause of her outburst was never really known, but she'd tell me "I just don't trust her and I don't want you to be around her." She never gave me a real reason why.

By the summer of 2017, she began accusing me of cheating on her despite having no proof whatsoever. I agreed to go to therapy with her to discuss our trust issues. She ended up storming out of the session, claiming the therapist did was biased against her and treated her unfairly. In her first solo session with the therapist, she said she liked her, so this mood swing was fairly violent.

In August, she lashed out at me over a fantasty football draft party I had previously told her about and claimed I was "planning parties" without her and didn't want her around. Our fight was so public a third party called the cops on us and I was accused of assault. She never pressed charges but used the threat of that to keep me around. This arrest happened in front of my close friends and my mother, which turned all of them against her. We continued seeing each other for 2 months after. Not much changed, but we were completely isolated. Whenever I'd try to leave her, she'd threaten suicide. One night, she sent me a picture of her bloody wrist and I called the cops, which made her furious because she was bluffing. By November, she gave me an ultimatum that if I didn't bring her around my family and force them to accept her back, we had to break up. My friends/family said they'd accept her but she needed to take it slow and let them rebuild trust. I told her if I had to follow the ultimatum, then we had to break up.

That night, she said if I left her, she'd kill herself. I left anyway. She began telling me she was taking anxiety pills and drinking with them, and she'd die, and if I wanted her to stop, I had to come see her. I told her to please stop but she kept telling me how many pills she was taking. The next morning, I found out she was taken to the hospital. Her mother blamed me for not calling the cops on her, but I had done so in the past and she was bluffing. Her friends blamed me as well.

After the attempt, I told her she needed to get help and I needed time apart. She initially agreed to speak twice a month but not about our problems, and we could meet again early 2018. I agreed. But she never stuck to it. She would contact me daily, begging to talk and see me, telling me she loved me and if I loved her I would be with her now. I said I needed time. She then said her therapist told her I was a sociopath who just wanted to hurt her. By late November, she began telling me she was moving away and I needed to stop her. I declined. She then said if I wouldn't talk to her, she'd ruin me. She ended up contacting my office, posting on social media and telling all my ex girlfriends I abused her; contacted my mother to tell her I was homocidal; and threatened to go back to the police. She did this one time a day so I would be terrorized for multiple weeks.

In December, she said she had been diagnosed with BPD and would be starting special treatment. I had not responded to her since November. She then went through periods of telling me she loved me and we were meant to be together to saying she hated me and I was a vile human. In February, she told me she wanted to meet up and talk, that she knew she did horrible things to be and didn't like living with such a burden thinking I hated her. She also said she was seeing someone else. I finally responded and told her I was glad she had moved on, to which she responded she hadn't, but I had been silent for 3 months so she thought she had to try to see others and that she still loves me and knows we are soulmates. She said she didn't like being around the new person, didn't get excited to do things with him and never planned anything with him herself, but she had few friends in town and wasn't kept busy like I was with my friends. She asked to come over to my apartment to see me, but I declined.

A week later, she told me she loved me every much and that her mother got a new puppy and I'd love it so much, and she knows we are meant to be together and wanted to talk to me now. I told her no. She then demanded to know if I saw a future, and she'd wait a month or so but not longer than that. I told her I had not gotten over what she did to me and I didn't think I could see her anytime soon. She then said I was vile, deserved to die alone, my friends/family were toxic, she hoped she'd never see my disgusting face again and hoped to never hear from me again, and that she knew I knew she was way better than me and could do way better, and the new person was way better than me, and she hopes I hurt every day for throwing away something good with her.

24 hours later, she told me she was sorry for what she said, that she was extremely hurt and upset, but would not contact me again, and that she hoped to hear from me again someday.

I have been struggling for a week now. Part of me wants to reach back to her and tell her I do want to talk, but I am afraid of re-opening everything and setting her off again. She hasn't contacted me in 6 days, but I never know if she will keep quiet. I still care for her and love her and hope she gets the help she needs, but I don't think she's taking it seriously and no one understands the gravity of her illness. Should I just avoid her and try to forget? I am in therapy and my therapist says her illness takes years of therapy to manage and I should not talk or see her.

I have not come to a decision on what to do, and I don't want to let this new person she's seeing rush me because I fear she will fall in love with him and forget me.

[ArleighBurke]

Southside: How old are you? I can't see that you've posted that.

Not that it matters too much, but trying to have a relationship with a BPD takes a lot of work. The behaviours she has demonstrated she will likely have all through her life. If you're under 25 I'd say let her go without a question - you're young, emotionally inexperienced and there are so many more women out there. If you are older, then perhaps you have the emotional maturity to deal with her.

But what is your motivation? I get that you love her. BPDs have an amazing skill at making us fall head-over-heals for them. But at what cost? It is often difficult, but try to determine WHY you want a relationship. Do you fear being alone? Do you want to help her? Is it simply love? What do you love about her? Perhaps this will help your decision... .

[formflier]

I am in therapy and my therapist says her illness takes years of therapy to manage and I should not talk or see her.

I have not come to a decision on what to do, and I don't want to let this new person she's seeing rush me because I fear she will fall in love with him and forget me.

Just so you know... .we are not allowed to give "run messages" and we also aren't allowed to say "stay with her".

I feel comfortable saying that if you are in T and your T is giving you this advice and you are considering going against the advice of your T... .I would make sure you have a really... .really really... good reason for doing so.

I would hope that you talk this reason through thoroughly with your T.

FF

[DaddyBear77]

Hi southside420, thank you for posting this. It sounds like you're facing a really hard decision.

My first observation, though, is that you've already done a really good job of setting boundaries around what you will and will not accept in your life. This is huge. This is great! Look at all the times she asked you to do something you didn't want to do, and you still found the strength to say "No, I do not want that" or "No, I will not do that" - this cannot be underestimated.

So along those lines, I'd ask you - what do you really want here? Do you want a relationship with this person under any circumstances? Or do you want a relationship with conditions? Do you want there to be serious change before you'll consider getting back together? Or are you ready to have a relationship now, taking things as they really are?

You've taken a dive head first into learning about BPD the past few days. As you may have read, it's often very difficult for someone with BPD traits to make a serious commitment to therapy and make long lasting changes. We have an article on What it takes to be in a relationship that might help you in your decision making process.

Like formflier said, it's never our role to tell you "stay" or "leave" - and in fact, I am someone who has known for many years about BPD, yet I have stayed and tried to make things work. It's a big decision to make and I want you to look at it from as many angles as possible. Love and compassion and desire to help someone is one aspect. Commitment and accepting someone for who they actually are, instead of who we want them to be is another aspect.

[southside420]

Hi southside420, thank you for posting this. It sounds like you're facing a really hard decision.

My first observation, though, is that you've already done a really good job of setting boundaries around what you will and will not accept in your life. This is huge. This is great! Look at all the times she asked you to do something you didn't want to do, and you still found the strength to say "No, I do not want that" or "No, I will not do that" - this cannot be underestimated.

So along those lines, I'd ask you - what do you really want here? Do you want a relationship with this person under any circumstances? Or do you want a relationship with conditions? Do you want there to be serious change before you'll consider getting back together? Or are you ready to have a relationship now, taking things as they really are?

You've taken a dive head first into learning about BPD the past few days. As you may have read, it's often very difficult for someone with BPD traits to make a serious commitment to therapy and make long lasting changes. We have an article on What it takes to be in a relationship that might help you in your decision making process.

Like formflier said, it's never our role to tell you "stay" or "leave" - and in fact, I am someone who has known for many years about BPD, yet I have stayed and tried to make things work. It's a big decision to make and I want you to look at it from as many angles as possible. Love and compassion and desire to help someone is one aspect. Commitment and accepting someone for who they actually are, instead of who we want them to be is another aspect.

Thanks for your reply.

To answer a previous question, I will be 30 this month, so I am not *that* young but also not very old, nor have we need married or have children to keep us together.

Ideally, I would give the relationship another shot with conditions - that she continues therapy for the foreseeable future and does not waiver in it. I also would like her to make an effort to show remorse for her actions in the past, but I am unsure she is capable of doing that yet. I would like to be there to help and support her while she works through her illness. I never dated her knowing she had BPD in the past so I was never able to understand why she reacted the way she did and did not have the tools, knowledge or ability to handle it because I was clueless. I am not certain I could do any better now, but the unknown bothers me a lot.

The therapist/LPC I am seeing did recommend I not speak to her again and said it is unlikely I will accomplish anything if I did not fully commit to taking her back, and the psychiatrist, who does not particularly steer me either way, suggested that if I did commit to taking her back, I may potentially become a parental figure to her where I had to check with her constantly to make sure she was being serious about therapy. His point was, I may lose respect for her.

Ultimately, I would like to at least sit down and talk with her, but I fear if I don't commit to her when I do, she will have another vengeful episode. I am lucky after the last one I did not end up in jail or unemployed and that is something I have to recognize. The other part of me says I should count my blessings and close this chapter and move on.

[Lucky Jim]

I would like to at least sit down and talk with her, but I fear if I don't commit to her when I do, she will have another vengeful episode. I am lucky after the last one I did not end up in jail or unemployed and that is something I have to recognize.

Hey southside, To me this is a red flag.     Are you pushing yourself to commit to her out of fear of "another vengeful episode"?  If so, I would suggest that you could be being manipulated by F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt).  Needless to say, you don't have to worry about ending up in jail in a healthy r/s.

LuckyJim

[southside420]

Hey southside, To me this is a red flag.     Are you pushing yourself to commit to her out of fear of "another vengeful episode"?  If so, I would suggest that you could be being manipulated by F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt).  Needless to say, you don't have to worry about ending up in jail in a healthy r/s.

LuckyJim

I don't feel the need to commit to her now or I'd end up in jail. I am afraid if I meet her or try to see her again and realize she has not changed, she will go off on me again. But I just really want to know how her life is going, how she's doing, how her therapy is going, and see if she is making strides. All I want to see is for her to be in a good place because I still miss and love her. I just have not told her any of this because I know what she's capable of now.

[formflier]

Ideally, I would give the relationship another shot with conditions - that she continues therapy for the foreseeable future and does not waiver in it. 

OK... .FF assignment number 1.  Take some time and look around the conflicted board... .and especially the "improving" board.

That will be where the most "success" stories are (in quotes because that is a relative term).

Look at you conditions and see how many other people have stories where this has come true.

How likely is it that if she "really wanted to" that your conditions would come true?

FF

[southside420]

OK... .FF assignment number 1.  Take some time and look around the conflicted board... .and especially the "improving" board.

That will be where the most "success" stories are (in quotes because that is a relative term).

Look at you conditions and see how many other people have stories where this has come true.

How likely is it that if she "really wanted to" that your conditions would come true?

FF

I will check those areas out. I think I am in the phase where I am blaming myself for how I handled conflict with her pretty often. I am not great with conflict in general and avoid it more than I should, and sometimes when we'd fight, I would shut down and try to disengage until it's over which would make her angry because she felt abandoned. This was, of course, well before she was diagnosed with BPD. I'm sure the way I feel is common for many people here who are out of relationships with BPD people who are diagnosed after the fact. I just have no idea how things would change on my end knowing what she is dealing with.

The thing I am hung up on is that she still blames me for not calling in her suicide threat. Was I supposed to do that? She had threatened suicide in the past and she had been bluffing. I called the first time in, the police showed up, and she was furious that I embarrassed her in front of her roommate for calling in her cutting her wrists. She second attempt, she told me her plan, told me as she took the pills, wrote a suicide letter and said not to call the cops. At that moment, I did not and she ended up being taken to the hospital. Should I feel guilt for that? Should I apologize?

[formflier]

 At that moment, I did not and she ended up being taken to the hospital. Should I feel guilt for that? Should I apologize?

No.... you are not responsible for the decisions of others regarding their health and life.  You are just not.

Can you see how "she wants you to be"... .and when you tried to be "she blamed you" and guess what... .when you decided not to be... "she blamed you again"

She wants to have it both ways... .life doesn't work that way.

You are responsible for you.

If you know for sure... .as in you have "eyes on" that someone else is in danger, I would hope you would act.  However, that's not the case.  It's just not.

Let her be responsible for her.

FF

[southside420]

No.... you are not responsible for the decisions of others regarding their health and life.  You are just not.

Can you see how "she wants you to be"... .and when you tried to be "she blamed you" and guess what... .when you decided not to be... "she blamed you again"

She wants to have it both ways... .life doesn't work that way.

You are responsible for you.

If you know for sure... .as in you have "eyes on" that someone else is in danger, I would hope you would act.  However, that's not the case.  It's just not.

Let her be responsible for her.

FF

No, I did not have any eyes on her. The first time she attempted, she sent me pictures of her wrists bleeding and I DID call that one in. It was discovered that she was bluffing and nothing was done - they were flesh wounds. The second time, I had no eyes on anything except she said she was taking pills, wrote a suicide note which she sent to me, and would live text me during it. Pure manipulation in my eyes.

[ArleighBurke]

I think a relationship with a BPD is like a drug addiction... .

When it's great, it's amazing! Such a high - they have a way to make us feel on top of the world. Whether that's because we're codependant, or just because of the contrast between their bad side and good side, or because they are masters at emotional manipulation. I dunno.

And when it's bad, we hurt. We long for the good. We long the the "real" them. We feel withdrawal. We CRAVE... .

[Turkish]

southside420,

I think you did the right thing calling the cops when she sent you those pics.  

The push pull towards you is nothing short of confusing and hurtful.  She's unable to manage her emotions,  and both the love and hate are real... .at the time.  Have you seen or discussion on Splitting? Click on the quote link for the whole discussion.  

Splitting

Splitting refers to a primitive defense mechanism characterized by a polarization of good feelings and bad feelings, of love and hate, of attachment and rejection.

Splitting is a powerful unconscious force that manifests to protect against anxiety. Rather than providing real protection, splitting leads to destructive behavior and turmoil, and the often confused reactions by those who try to help.

I'd lean towards what your T said,  then ask,  how would you feel of she kept exhibiting this love/hate towards you? This isn't about her,  but about you and how you would feel.

[southside420]

southside420,

I think you did the right thing calling the cops when she sent you those pics.  

The push pull towards you is nothing short of confusing and hurtful.  She's unable to manage her emotions,  and both the love and hate are real... .at the time.  Have you seen or discussion on Splitting? Click on the quote link for the whole discussion.  

I'd lean towards what your T said,  then ask,  how would you feel of she kept exhibiting this love/hate towards you? This isn't about her,  but about you and how you would feel.

Right, through this whole process, I have tried to be very strong about putting my own emotions first and my own needs first. For so long, I would bend over backwards to make her happy and neglected my own wants and needs. The last 3 months apart have been about me and what I want to do.


I think she did try to make contact with me last night. A social media account dedicated to food in my town began following me and looked at a picture I posted last night. The picture of the account looked like a shirt she'd wear all the time. I requested to follow it back but it has not accepted. I'm almost certain it's her trying to check in on what I am doing.