Worried about disturbing pattern in family dynamics

[Angie59]

Hello everyone! 

I have a new topic I would like to your opinions and thoughts on, on how to handle a situation that has been within my son's family for some time but is becoming a very uncomfortable and disturbing situation for my husband and I.

I know many of you already know my story through other topics and threads I have posted in.  Just for the sake of clarification, my youngest son is engaged an uBPD.  They have been together for 4 years and no wedding date is set yet.  She has a daughter from a previous marriage who is 4 years old now but she came into our lives when she was just 4 months old.  I will refer to her as GD4 and then they have our grandson who is turning 2 that they had together, whom I will call GS2.   

Through reading other posts I am seeing a family dynamic that is occurring with my son and his uBPD fiancee.  It seems I am reading it in adults who grew up with a BP parent.  One in particular stands out in my mind as it is a duplication of what is going on with my son and his uBPD fiancee. 

My son's fiancee appears to be more of a roommate to my son than anything.  She comes and goes when she pleases, spends whatever amount of money she wishes to spend on herself, and leaves the children with my son a great part of the time to the point where the GD4 has brought it to her mother's attention stating she misses her and wishes she was home more.  My GS2 seems to gravitate more toward the men in our family than the women.  We are thinking it could be because he has more time and attention from his dad (our son) than his mother.  My son's uBPD's fiancee also has gone on trips with other men that my son was aware of, along with talking about how one man in particular wanted to take her home from a bar she was at, and she declined stating he had a wife.  No mention of her being engaged to my son, no mention of her having children, etc... .  My son allows all this to go on.

The other issue is that GD4 is very mean in general.  A mother from her daycare has told my son's uBPD that no one at school likes GD4 because she is mean to the other kids and no one wants to be around her for this reason.  She also told her that another mother's child was badly scratched by GD4 and even sent pictures to this mom, who then told my son's fiancee that "they were really bad." 

When watching my son's behavior, my GD4 uBPD's mom behavior, and even the biological grandparents (the uBPD's parents) are all PRO-GD4.  By that I mean that they will give her, her way, allow her to take toys away from our GS2 that were given to him by someone as a gift simply because she wants it, grandma to GD4 will laugh about GD4 throwing things when she has to go into time-out and throwing a fit and says, "She's just pissed off because she has to do something she doesn't want to do."  She has knocked our GS2 down numerous times using both hands against his back and she outweighs him by at least 30 pounds. 

It really hurts my husband and I to see this kind of behavior happening.  It is as if she is being allowed to control the whole entire household.  They all say whenever she pushes our GS2 down, that she is just trying to "toughen him up."  Then they sit back and laugh about it.  My husband is to the point where he is close to saying no more get-togethers with them at all because it is so ridiculous. 

We have a choice here to make, especially with GS2's birthday coming up very soon.  We can keep declining invitations to their home to avoid having to see this type of behavior going on and to me, nothing short of abuse to my GS2 - or we can go and endure it, perhaps say something about it and then we know our son and uBPD's fiancee's attitude enough that they will become angry about us making comments about their parenting, and then may even make the decision for us and not invite us back.

We both really feel it is important to have our GS2 in our lives, now and going forward so he knows us and knows that perhaps if there is a time he needs a safe harbor, we are there for him.  It is also a very small family.  Our GS2 only has us as his grandparents (of course also his grandparents on his mother's side), and one uncle, which is our other son.  So we feel like we are the only ones that are on his side. 

Any opinions and thoughts, suggestions, etc., would be greatly appreciated.  We feel so stuck right now and feel fear that we will lose contact with our GS2.  I understand firsthand why they wrote the book, "Stop Walking on Eggshells" now!

Angie

[Turkish]

My son allows all this to go on.

He's allowing all of this to go on. 

What does your son say about his step-daughter's aggressive behavior to his daughter?

[Angie59]

Hi Turkish!

The GD4 is doing the bullying to GS2, so it is actually his (not yet) step-daughter doing this to his biological son, just to clarify.

He actually doesn't talk about it too much.  The last conversation he and I had, I brought up seeing her knocking him down with both arms outstretched in our backyard, wouldn't give him a chance to get back up and she knocked him down again.  He said, "Okay, here we go again with our parenting." 

It's just wrong and it hurts me terribly to see him treated this way.  Why is my son allowing this to be done to his own son?  There have even been a few injuries to GS2 that have been covered up by saying GS2 fell (contradictions in what happened between my son and his fiancee, like they need to get their story straight between them). 

I'm at wits end on how to handle it all.  Anything you or anyone can help us see some light at the end of this tunnel would be most appreciated. 

[Turkish]

It would concern me greatly as a grandparent to see my grandchild treated like this by a sibling, step or not.  I think,  however,  that your son communicated a boundary with his family
He said, "Okay, here we go again with our parenting." 

He's indicating that he's taking the initiative to handle it how he will handle it. 

I agree that the 4 year old's acting out towards your GS and classmates is concerning,  but is your son's home to handle however he will. Continuing to bring it up will likely elicit stronger reactions from your son and harder boundaries on his side.  So what can you do?

Be there for GS2. Love him and validate his feelings without judgment of his father,  Sibling,  soon-to-be-step-mom.  He wouldn't be able to comprehend that at his age anyway,  and you don't want to alienate; that could backfire.  Validate your grandson when you hands interaction with him.  This book might help. 

The Power of Validation (for parents) - Karyn D. Hall, PhD

[Notwendy]

I know it is difficult to watch your son involved in this situation. However, I also think it is important to consider boundaries because when we cross someone's boundaries, there are consequences- it isn't good for the relationship with your son.

His statement : He said, "Okay, here we go again with our parenting."  
  indicates that he thinks he has already heard your concerns- maybe not all you have to say but this is how he receives information from you about this topic.

This is a tough situation for you to witness, but I will share something social services said to me when I asked about my parents. When my father was ill, my BPD mother was his main caretaker- by his choice. She is not competent to take care of someone else and she is emotionally abusive. My father was not being taken care of in a way I considered to be decent and there was no structure in the home- no mealtimes, no schedule, chaos. He had been the solid one and now with her in charge it was chaos. So I was asking about the criteria for possibly taking custody of an adult.

After hearing the situation and getting details- this was the reply " Your father is mentally competent to make his own bad decisions". That is- the minimum criteria were met. My idea of what is abuse/neglect is not the legal criteria for social services to intervene, and unless he himself is willing to change the situation, there is no grounds to intervene on their part ( and actually not on my part either so long as he meets criteria for mental competence and doesn't break the law in any way).

So I will say this to you from the same perspective. As difficult as this situation is for you to see, your son is a legal adult. He can choose the partners he wants to choose.  I agree it would not be my choice either to choose a partner who was also seeing other people, and I would not wish that for people I care about, but it is really up to your son to decide if his fiancees behavior bothers him or what he wants to do about it.

Children who grow up with a disordered parent are prone to acting out and behavioral issues, but to override the parent's legal rights as parents, there needs to be evidence of abuse and neglect in the legal sense. If someone truly believes a child is being abused/neglected, then they should call CPS.  However, there are legal criteria for what is abuse/neglect and those would have to be met before parental rights were questioned.

Basically- your son is legally competent to make his own ( bad in your eyes) decisions. I think from his statement and from the times you have become angry and spoken your mind, it is safe to conclude that he has heard you. You don't like his fiancee, you think their parenting is wrong. He has heard you and yet still- he is where he is- because for now he has chosen this.

How has saying things to him worked so far to get you the results you want? I think - if you are honest with yourself- what you want is for him to dump this woman and for him to take custody of his child. But what does your talking do? When you speak up against her, what he hears from you is that you also don't like him, you think he made a bad decision and you don't think he is a competent parent. Most people are going to bristle at this kind of communication.

I get it. If I were honest with myself- I wish my father had stood up to my mother about her selfish, abusive, behavior. But the fact is, it isn't my choice to put up with it,  but it was his choice- and he is legally competent to make his own choices. The more I spoke up about it, the more I pushed the two of them together against me ( drama triangle) and eroded my relationship with him. Put in a situation (by her ) where he felt he had to choose her, or me, he chose her.

Does this mean you only have to WOE, or turn a blind eye to what you see? You don't have to tolerate abusive behavior from them or anyone. You can take care of yourselves. If you are at the point where you are too upset when you visit and see things you don't want to see and it is too much for you, don't go. Have this boundary of self care- because if you don't, your anger and resentment will affect the relationship. However, if you want to spend time with your GS and are able to stay out of what is your son's business- his romantic life ( fiancee's other men) and his parenting, then I think the visit will go better for all involved.

WOE is a choice we make out of fear. To mind our own business, stay out of people's personal decisions whether we agree with them or not, is not fear but a choice to respect someone's boundaries.  If you visit with this in mind, it may make it better for you, but if you are WOE and all up in emotional knots about it, then honor that too.

[Angie59]

Thank you NotWendy for your input.  Wow, this is really going to be hard.  I do give my opinions many times where they are probably not welcomed.  I guess this is a good time for my husband and I to talk this over and figure out what the best route is to take in socializing with them, etc.

Yes, you are right about wanting someone different for my son.  He is a very kind, gentle, respectful, compassionate man who we could not be prouder of, and I guess I feel he deserves so, so much better than this.  As you said though, not my choice - it is his choice to be with who he is with.  I have to accept that.

Thank you for your reply.  By the way, I couldn't find WOE in the glossary.  What does it stand for?

[Notwendy]

WOE- walking on eggshells.

Yes, it is difficult to want something different for the people we love but if they are legal adults, they make their own choices. Your son wants what he wants and has the right to choose it.

It isn't about being right or wrong. I can understand not wanting someone to have an unfaithful spouse because I would not want one but that doesn't mean I get to insert myself into that person's choices. Getting in between my parents resulted in straining my relationship with my father. You can't control his side of this, but you can control things you are doing that are not helping you to stay connected with your son.

[Angie59]

Yes NotWendy, you are so right.  I can see how inserting yourself in someone else's relationship can only cause damage to your own relationship with one or both of them and can cause hurt feelings.  This is really hard for me to do, but I know I must accept this and follow through with keeping my nose where it belongs. 

Of course I want my relationship with my son to continue and be a good and healthy one at that.  However, I know he is an adult and can take care of himself.  My concern is more toward being able to keep a relationship going with our GS2.  Right now, we babysit him on Thursdays and Fridays so he sees us plenty to know who we are and through our hugs and kisses knows we love him.  We interact with him in play, taking walks, etc., and it is wonderful.  I am just hoping that my outburst last week does not prompt her to begin looking for another sitter and then we lose contact.

Operating out of fear sure isn't any fun, but that said, I'm preaching to the choir by saying that.  I know there are many other stories out there, some much worse than mine as I have been reading over many posts the last few weeks. 

I can't say it enough how happy I am to have come across bpdfamily.  It is a comforting place, a safe place and contains a wealth of knowledge for those struggling to deal with those plagued with BPD. 

[Notwendy]

Fear of her choosing another sitter is real, but you don't know what she is going to do, and so this fear isn't based on reality.

Sometimes fear is helpful to us. If a bear is chasing us, we better darn be scared as it helps us run fast. But fear when there is no real danger can be emotionally stressful for no reason. An acronym for this is F=false  E= evidence A=appearing R=real. This is not useful fear, so feel it but let it go.

I have hired sitters and I learned that, besides it being costly, most babysitting situations don't last- the sitter moves, or gets another job, or graduates ( if they are a student). It isn't a bad thing but I think few sitters stay in one position forever. So there is likely to be a time when they need a sitter and that time may be you or not.

You have offered a convenience to them at no cost, and they may continue to choose that.

Things change, children grow. I didn't see my Dad's family a lot when I was little but kids don't stay cute, cuddly and little forever. They turn into school age kids and teens. School holidays were a challenge for my BPD mother- she didn't like having kids around 24/7. My father's family opened their homes and hearts to us. We spent school breaks with them. It was our little piece of Heaven. Even longer out- my kids are close to their family members on that side, and are alienated from my mothers FOO.

You talk about making an impact but even a small amount of contact makes an impact even for future generations. They may not get a sitter, but if they do, it may not be forever. Getting a handle on how to manage this relationship may benefit you in the long run. Stay centered and not reactive.