Saving the Relationships with FOO: Strategies and Sharing

[Depression = 72% of members]

PART 1: Background

Hello all, I’m starting this thread to tackle a particularly big challenge in my relationship with my uBPDw: family of origin (FOO). After a major blowout almost 3 years ago, I am beginning to plan my first trip back to my home country to see my family in 3 years. I would also like to open this topic to everyone who is also struggling with keeping the ties with the people who matter most to you.  

In the beginning my wife had a very good relationship with my family, which mostly consists of father, father’s second wife, brother, sister in law, aunt and uncle, grandmother (now deceased) and grandfather. Then the complaints started cropping up. They were rude. I was rude. I didn’t mention her recent accomplishment on the call. I told them my exact salary when they asked. They didn’t ask how her job interview went. They liked my sister in law more. Etc. Though I used to mostly disagree with her opinions, later I got better at validating her feelings. Too good in fact, as I started to actively agree with her that my FOO were mostly rude / bad people, first to assuage her, then later actually believing it.

When we had kids was when it started to get much worse. My wife started to see my family as only caring about kids and seeing her as just the birth giver. There may be layers of truth to all of my wife’s feelings. But overall my family had all maintained interest in her life as well as I think were generally warm and welcoming to her.

Then in 2016 we took our first trip with both S3 and D0.7 (at that time)  to the US. It was hard and she often complained about it, but now considering I have lived in her country for over 10 years I don’t think making the trip was too hard to ask. But there was that tone from the start. I forced her, etc.

Things were generally OK until we went to visit my dad and his new wife (who is, objectively, an extremely unlikeable and rude person and who everyone in family had some conflict with). My wife stepped up her own rudeness, like buying food for us to cook in their house but not cooking enough for them. Then she overheard dad’s wife asking dad why our son was still in diapers. Wife lost it. Told me we had to make up an excuse and leave right away. Even got into tears about it. I agreed.

A few days later my wife overheard my dad’s wife on the phone with my grandmother saying our behavior was strange. Explosions. Everyone saw. Made up more lies and we were back home on an early flight. After we got back my wife forced me to try an argue an apology out of everyone on the phone. They were all against her, she would say. I was spineless and didn’t protect her. I fought with everyone, even my grandparents to whom I’d never spoken a harsh word. It was all a nightmare.

It ended with my wife forbidding me from letting my dad, grandparents, or brother or sister in law see the kids on the phone. This was like a knife to their heart. But I did it. I did it by convincing myself she was right and they were bad people.

Six months later, my grandmother suddenly took ill and died. I got on Facetime in time to see her and let her see the kids. But it was too late to repair the damage. I barely spoke to my dad after. My brother and I stopped talking. I never saw my new born niece or my nephew. My kids didn’t even know they had cousins their own age.

It wasn’t until a few months I finally opened up to my family about BPD and what really happened. I got the relationships back. But the damage still exists.  

Since then my wife has lifted the ban. But calls with family still tend to end with her having an extreme episode after. I think my family is her biggest trigger. And I believe it has to do with her own family history, which was tragic and ended with the loss of both parents.  

For me, the whole experience has been the most traumatic of my adult life. I blame her and myself for what happened to my grandmother. I still don’t know quite how to process it.        

[RolandOfEld]

PART 1: Background

Hello all, I’m starting this thread to tackle a particularly big challenge in my relationship with my uBPDw: family of origin (FOO). After a major blowout almost 3 years ago, I am beginning to plan my first trip back to my home country to see my family in 3 years. I would also like to open this topic to everyone who is also struggling with keeping the ties with the people who matter most to you.  

In the beginning my wife had a very good relationship with my family, which mostly consists of father, father’s second wife, brother, sister in law, aunt and uncle, grandmother (now deceased) and grandfather. Then the complaints started cropping up. They were rude. I was rude. I didn’t mention her recent accomplishment on the call. I told them my exact salary when they asked. They didn’t ask how her job interview went. They liked my sister in law more. Etc. Though I used to mostly disagree with her opinions, later I got better at validating her feelings. Too good in fact, as I started to actively agree with her that my FOO were mostly rude / bad people, first to assuage her, then later actually believing it.

When we had kids was when it started to get much worse. My wife started to see my family as only caring about kids and seeing her as just the birth giver. There may be layers of truth to all of my wife’s feelings. But overall my family had all maintained interest in her life as well as I think were generally warm and welcoming to her.

Then in 2016 we took our first trip with both S3 and D0.7 (at that time)  to the US. It was hard and she often complained about it, but now considering I have lived in her country for over 10 years I don’t think making the trip was too hard to ask. But there was that tone from the start. I forced her, etc.

Things were generally OK until we went to visit my dad and his new wife (who is, objectively, an extremely unlikeable and rude person and who everyone in family had some conflict with). My wife stepped up her own rudeness, like buying food for us to cook in their house but not cooking enough for them. Then she overheard dad’s wife asking dad why our son was still in diapers. Wife lost it. Told me we had to make up an excuse and leave right away. Even got into tears about it. I agreed.

A few days later my wife overheard my dad’s wife on the phone with my grandmother saying our behavior was strange. Explosions. Everyone saw. Made up more lies and we were back home on an early flight. After we got back my wife forced me to try an argue an apology out of everyone on the phone. They were all against her, she would say. I was spineless and didn’t protect her. I fought with everyone, even my grandparents to whom I’d never spoken a harsh word. It was all a nightmare.

It ended with my wife forbidding me from letting my dad, grandparents, or brother or sister in law see the kids on the phone. This was like a knife to their heart. But I did it. I did it by convincing myself she was right and they were bad people.

Six months later, my grandmother suddenly took ill and died. I got on Facetime in time to see her and let her see the kids. But it was too late to repair the damage. I barely spoke to my dad after. My brother and I stopped talking. I never saw my new born niece or my nephew. My kids didn’t even know they had cousins their own age.

It wasn’t until a few months I finally opened up to my family about BPD and what really happened. I got the relationships back. But the damage still exists.  

Since then my wife has lifted the ban. But calls with family still tend to end with her having an extreme episode after. I think my family is her biggest trigger. And I believe it has to do with her own family history, which was tragic and ended with the loss of both parents.  

For me, the whole experience has been the most traumatic of my adult life. I blame her and myself for what happened to my grandmother. I still don’t know quite how to process it.        

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[RolandOfEld]

PART 2: The Problem

I want to go home and see my family next April. I’ve already started talking to them about it privately. They are up for it. The idea gives me happiness and hope since I had once almost given up on seeing my family.

As things are now, I see no way this can go over well with my wife. If I bring her, it will only cause more explosions and make for a miserable visit. If I don’t, she will resent us having a good time without her. Even though it would essentially be giving her a one week vacation from kids.
  
It’s early, and now is not the time to discuss. My wife is in the middle of stressful job interviews, and also taking some steps towards getting treatment. But sooner or later it will have to be brought up.

I hope I can work with everyone here towards building a strategy while at the same time sharing ideas for how we can all reconnect with FOO.

Thanks!  

[Radcliff]

Roland, thanks for sharing your difficult story.  I'm sorry for all of the pain you've experienced.  I understand your regrets about your grandmother, but you were battling gigantic forces of nature akin to a natural disaster.  Nobody could have been prepared for that.  All of us have stories of regret over the damage that has been done in the past.  Focus now on your heroism in taking back your own life and doing the best for your children, while not demonizing your wife.  Many others would not have done as well as you are doing.

When with my FOO, my wife always got along with them, but she was very uncomfortable with them.  When we were alone, and even in front of our children, she would insult them sometimes.  When we were alone and she was dysregulated, she would accuse them of having mental illnesses, say I was crazy just like them, and many other terrible things.  I'm still confused by the mixed situation, because there were times when she would encourage my relationship with my parents, like encouraging me to call them, or organizing kids' presents or cards for them, but then by talking them down to me in private, she'd drive me away from them.  As I worked to appease her, I transmitted a lot of stress and pushing to my mother over the phone.  She just recently passed away, so I am full of regret over this.

I've recently become much more open with my FOO about what has been going on in my marriage, and many of them told me they knew things were off, but hadn't wanted to say anything and be intrusive.

WW

[pearlsw]

PART 2: The Problem

I want to go home and see my family next April. I’ve already started talking to them about it privately. They are up for it. The idea gives me happiness and hope since I had once almost given up on seeing my family.

As things are now, I see no way this can go over well with my wife. If I bring her, it will only cause more explosions and make for a miserable visit. If I don’t, she will resent us having a good time without her. Even though it would essentially be giving her a one week vacation from kids.
  
It’s early, and now is not the time to discuss. My wife is in the middle of stressful job interviews, and also taking some steps towards getting treatment. But sooner or later it will have to be brought up.

I hope I can work with everyone here towards building a strategy while at the same time sharing ideas for how we can all reconnect with FOO.

Thanks!  

Hi Roland,

Of the two options, the one with her not going does sound preferable, negative outcome and all. Do you think she would allow you to travel alone with the kids?

And one step further does fear of abduction of the kids ever come up as an issue for either of you? You being afraid of her taking the kids, or threatening that, or her accusing of this/perhaps projecting?

Just curious! Hope not!

with compassion, pearl.

[Inquisitive1]

I really like wentworths points about being generous with yourself regarding the past. These things are very difficult.

I've dealt with some of the same FOO issues, my wife trying to push me to 'take her side.' Years later she still gets worked up about my brother being rude to her the day of my father's funeral. She kept wanting him to apologize... .crazy. I validate that he was rude, but go on to say that was the day his father died, give him some slack and move along. This does not make her happy, but sometime the truth must out.

You might want to open the conversation by telling her how important it is to you to reconnect with your FOO. I'm not sure how best to do it, but I'd hope that she could understand that at some level.

Decide where your boundaries are before discussing this with her. FOO is so important, that you might consider a boundary that this is definitely going to happen, regardless of how she responds, including any threats she makes.

Ultimately, you're probably best letting her choose if she wants to come or not. Make it totally her option. In my experience, efforts to push my dBPDw one way or the other have been used against me later.

The most important thing is that she hear about this plan from you first. If she hears about this from your FOO, it will really complicate things. Do what you must to assure you tell her before anyone else. One way to be sure is to tell her sooner rather than later.

[SunandMoon]

Hi Roland 

Personally, I wouldn't make this about my FOO at all, given the past conflicts.

I would make this all about me: I haven't been home in 3 years, I miss my country, I need to go home for a break, I want to catch up with family and friends, etc.

And then state it as a fact: I am going home for two weeks next April and I want to take the kids to meet their cousins. You'd love it if she wants to come but totally understand if she's not up for it. It might be a good break for her to have some time without the kids, if she wants but, either way, that's what you're doing.

Expect arguments and manipulations. Refuse to engage. "I'm missing home and so I'm going". That's it. Leave the room if necessary, distract if you can, but refuse to argue or back down.

That's the thing with boundaries - be totally immovable.

[GaGrl]

My DH's first wife (uBPD/NPD) started their married life in the U.S. by attempting to alienate and isolate him from his family. (She is Asian, by the way.) It didn't work, but they didn't know the level of functionality for a long time, although they had hints.

It's a fine balance.

Can your wife and children visit with your family for a week, then go home by themselves while you spray for another week?

[RolandOfEld]

Dear all, thank you so much for sharing. I was on 4 day leave with no access to PC so apologies for the late followup.

As I worked to appease her, I transmitted a lot of stress and pushing to my mother over the phone.  She just recently passed away, so I am full of regret over this.

I am so sorry to hear you have regret WW. Knowing you I believe you did everything within the situation that you could, but I understand the regret. It is much like the blame I put on myself for my grandmother's death. I can't even remember all the lousy things I said / did to my family and friends to appease my wife, all the lies, ducking out of important family events, and all the complaining about their behavior. I am wondering if my family, who is not keen to talking about emotions, has some resentment towards me they are not bringing up.

Do you think she would allow you to travel alone with the kids? And one step further does fear of abduction of the kids ever come up as an issue for either of you? You being afraid of her taking the kids, or threatening that, or her accusing of this/perhaps projecting?

Hi pearls, I think it's possible she would let me go alone. I don't think she's capable of abducting them. The worst she did was take them to a hotel one night while I was out, but she eventually called me and asked me to come join them. But I think the trip would be racked by texts from her complaining about how we all hate her and are having a great time without her, something like that.

Hi Inquisitive1, that's terrible about having conflict on the day of your father's funeral. Actually, my wife got mad and argued with me on the day of my mother's funeral. Good idea about opening the choice to her.

Thanks for the advice, SaM, I think I will follow it when the time comes. Everything comes down to how we frame things. If the money issue comes up, I'll insist on using my own savings.

Hi Gagrl, I think this trip will be one week at the most based on my vacation time,  so I don't think that's an option.

~ROE