Helping kids adapt to dBPDxh's new relationship

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Quick summary (okay, maybe not so quick) of my situation:

-Married dBPDxh in 1995 after 5 years of dating (started when I was 14)
-2 children: now S19 and S15
-Separated from (moved to an apartment) Jan. 2017.
-Legal separation final Feb 2018 at which point dBPDxh asked to have it converted to a divorce ASAP - in our state that's 90 days. He also asked (literally next sentence after asking for divorce) me if I would leave our church.  That solidified my suspicion that he was dating our church secretary... .Still only a suspicion, but things started making more sense when viewed with that as an assumption.
-S15's therapist suggested that we not tell our kids about seeking a divorce until school was out.  dBPDxh and I discussed what to do if S15 asked if we were getting a divorce and agreed upon an approach.  The same night that S15's T makes this suggestion, when I take S15 to a movie that I had mentioned we were seeing that night, I and S15 seek dBPDxh's work truck parked next to church secretary's van (which was our family van until a few months earlier) in the theater parking lot.  dBPDxh admits they were there together but says he was seeing the movie with her adult son and she decided to come along.  Less than two weeks later (and 3 weeks before school ended) dBPDxh tells me as I'm picking up S15 for my custody time that he told S15 that we were divorcing... .only an hour or two before pick up time.  S15 did not ask.  dBPDxh just decided to tell him.  
-Divorce final 25 May, 2018. I found out divorce was final 01 June and told dBPDxh 03 June.  He told me to tell our kids, so I told them 04 June.  On June 8th we meet to discuss some parenting stuff and he admits that he has been seeing church secretary and that it's serious and he wants to tell our boys.  I suggest that he talk with S15's therapist about how to best do that before talking to the boys.  Spoiler alert: He tells S15 on June 17th (again, the afternoon of the day I pick up for my custody week) and S19 "a few days before that", but I don't know this until after... .
-June 18th I take S15 to a session with T but do a quick update meeting before they meet where I tell T that dBPDxh has started dating and is wanting to tell the boys and ask if there's anything I can do to smooth the transition.  T had not spoken with dBPDxh in a few weeks but would bring up the topic in their next debrief if dBPDxh did not.  Note that this was the day after dBPDxh had told S15.
-June 21, I tell both my pastor and S15 that I have decided to find a new church home.  My explanation to S15 is that I have been a bit distracted in worship with all that has been going on.  I (at the advice of my T) tell my pastor that dBPDxh is dating his secretary and that has played into my decision to leave.  This is when I find out that our pastor had suspected and, immediately before dBPDxh came and asked me for a divorce, had confronted him with the question of whether he was seeing our church secretary before our divorce was final and, when dBPDxh admitted he was, told him that it was not helpful at this time and they should stop seeing each other romantically until the divorce was final.  Pastor also asked her separately to confirm and gave her the same guidance.  
-June 23, I'm volunteering with both S15 and S19 at a Drive Thru BBQ fundraiser at our church.  It was my custody weekend.  dBPDxh shows up at the BBQ with church secretary in the passenger seat and proceeds to buy her, one of her adult sons, and himself BBQ.  They then sit next to each other on the curb near the volunteer table for the next hour at the DRIVE THRU BBQ where the point was to get your food to go.  They chat with S15, S19 and her two kids and a number of our church members who stop by to get food BUT DON'T STAY LONG BECAUSE THAT WAS KINDA THE POINT.  S15 is visibly withdrawn.  After the fundraiser ends, I take my boys to see a movie and to dinner afterward.  S15 only speaks 3 words the whole remainder of the day (5 if you count his order to the waitress) and doesn't make eye contact with me or S19 the whole night.
-June 24, I text dBPDxh and ask if he has told the boys.  This is when I find out they have known (still not considerate to push the relationship in our kid's faces so soon and DEFINITELY not considerate of my custody time with the boys to do it in that manner) and he didn't bother to tell me.

So given that summary of events, I'm dealing with my own emotions about how dBPD is treating me and making what I consider a very selfish decision to push the timeline of telling our boys about the relationship and expecting them to be okay with it.  It's dBPDxh's custody week this week, so I'm hoping to work through those emotions and start to prepare for ways to help S15 and S19 with this transition.  

I've done some google searches and plan to discuss with my T and S15's T in more detail next week, but I would really appreciate any feedback any of you have on what helps/doesn't help the process.  I'm planning to stick to the "no disparaging ex-spouse" rule and would like to find a way to communicate to my boys that I am okay and that I will continue to be okay if they like and have fun with dBPDxh's girlfriend and her kids.  I wish I could be a safe place for them to talk about NOT liking the situation or not getting along with dBPDxh's gf and her kids (S19, S20 who live with their mom and may end up living with their mom and dBPDxh if things go the way they seem to be going), but I don't think that's going to be a very good role for me to attempt, even if they were willing to share.  I've gotten S19 an appointment with S15's T this week and hope to provide that safe place in the form of T since I can't really be that for them at the moment... .or should I be?  I don't know.

Anyways, thanks in advance for your thoughts/feedback/advice.

BeagleGirl

[BeagleGirl]

Quick summary (okay, maybe not so quick) of my situation:

-Married dBPDxh in 1995 after 5 years of dating (started when I was 14)
-2 children: now S19 and S15
-Separated from (moved to an apartment) Jan. 2017.
-Legal separation final Feb 2018 at which point dBPDxh asked to have it converted to a divorce ASAP - in our state that's 90 days. He also asked (literally next sentence after asking for divorce) me if I would leave our church.  That solidified my suspicion that he was dating our church secretary... .Still only a suspicion, but things started making more sense when viewed with that as an assumption.
-S15's therapist suggested that we not tell our kids about seeking a divorce until school was out.  dBPDxh and I discussed what to do if S15 asked if we were getting a divorce and agreed upon an approach.  The same night that S15's T makes this suggestion, when I take S15 to a movie that I had mentioned we were seeing that night, I and S15 seek dBPDxh's work truck parked next to church secretary's van (which was our family van until a few months earlier) in the theater parking lot.  dBPDxh admits they were there together but says he was seeing the movie with her adult son and she decided to come along.  Less than two weeks later (and 3 weeks before school ended) dBPDxh tells me as I'm picking up S15 for my custody time that he told S15 that we were divorcing... .only an hour or two before pick up time.  S15 did not ask.  dBPDxh just decided to tell him.  
-Divorce final 25 May, 2018. I found out divorce was final 01 June and told dBPDxh 03 June.  He told me to tell our kids, so I told them 04 June.  On June 8th we meet to discuss some parenting stuff and he admits that he has been seeing church secretary and that it's serious and he wants to tell our boys.  I suggest that he talk with S15's therapist about how to best do that before talking to the boys.  Spoiler alert: He tells S15 on June 17th (again, the afternoon of the day I pick up for my custody week) and S19 "a few days before that", but I don't know this until after... .
-June 18th I take S15 to a session with T but do a quick update meeting before they meet where I tell T that dBPDxh has started dating and is wanting to tell the boys and ask if there's anything I can do to smooth the transition.  T had not spoken with dBPDxh in a few weeks but would bring up the topic in their next debrief if dBPDxh did not.  Note that this was the day after dBPDxh had told S15.
-June 21, I tell both my pastor and S15 that I have decided to find a new church home.  My explanation to S15 is that I have been a bit distracted in worship with all that has been going on.  I (at the advice of my T) tell my pastor that dBPDxh is dating his secretary and that has played into my decision to leave.  This is when I find out that our pastor had suspected and, immediately before dBPDxh came and asked me for a divorce, had confronted him with the question of whether he was seeing our church secretary before our divorce was final and, when dBPDxh admitted he was, told him that it was not helpful at this time and they should stop seeing each other romantically until the divorce was final.  Pastor also asked her separately to confirm and gave her the same guidance.  
-June 23, I'm volunteering with both S15 and S19 at a Drive Thru BBQ fundraiser at our church.  It was my custody weekend.  dBPDxh shows up at the BBQ with church secretary in the passenger seat and proceeds to buy her, one of her adult sons, and himself BBQ.  They then sit next to each other on the curb near the volunteer table for the next hour at the DRIVE THRU BBQ where the point was to get your food to go.  They chat with S15, S19 and her two kids and a number of our church members who stop by to get food BUT DON'T STAY LONG BECAUSE THAT WAS KINDA THE POINT.  S15 is visibly withdrawn.  After the fundraiser ends, I take my boys to see a movie and to dinner afterward.  S15 only speaks 3 words the whole remainder of the day (5 if you count his order to the waitress) and doesn't make eye contact with me or S19 the whole night.
-June 24, I text dBPDxh and ask if he has told the boys.  This is when I find out they have known (still not considerate to push the relationship in our kid's faces so soon and DEFINITELY not considerate of my custody time with the boys to do it in that manner) and he didn't bother to tell me.

So given that summary of events, I'm dealing with my own emotions about how dBPD is treating me and making what I consider a very selfish decision to push the timeline of telling our boys about the relationship and expecting them to be okay with it.  It's dBPDxh's custody week this week, so I'm hoping to work through those emotions and start to prepare for ways to help S15 and S19 with this transition.  

I've done some google searches and plan to discuss with my T and S15's T in more detail next week, but I would really appreciate any feedback any of you have on what helps/doesn't help the process.  I'm planning to stick to the "no disparaging ex-spouse" rule and would like to find a way to communicate to my boys that I am okay and that I will continue to be okay if they like and have fun with dBPDxh's girlfriend and her kids.  I wish I could be a safe place for them to talk about NOT liking the situation or not getting along with dBPDxh's gf and her kids (S19, S20 who live with their mom and may end up living with their mom and dBPDxh if things go the way they seem to be going), but I don't think that's going to be a very good role for me to attempt, even if they were willing to share.  I've gotten S19 an appointment with S15's T this week and hope to provide that safe place in the form of T since I can't really be that for them at the moment... .or should I be?  I don't know.

Anyways, thanks in advance for your thoughts/feedback/advice.

BeagleGirl

[Panda39]

Hi Beaglegirl,

Below is information on Raising Resilient Kids that you might find helpful... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331459#msg1331459

Rather than telling your son what you are okay with him doing or not doing, maybe start by asking him some validating questions?  Get a sense of where he is with this.  He may or may not want anything to do with dad's new girlfriend right now. 

I'm not super good at these (where is LnL when you need her?  but I'll give it a try... .

S15, I know there has been a lot of change in our family that has been happening really quickly lately, do you have any questions for me?  How are you feeling about things?

As "the girlfriend", I can tell you that it took a while (they knew of me but I didn't meet them until I had been with their dad for a year) for my SO's daughter's to accept me.  That first year after we finally met was rough, his older daughter was incredibly mean.     It is a process and he may not automatically accept her even if you are okay with it.

Panda39

[kells76]

Yeouch. And, Yup. 3-4 months after DH & the kids' mom were legally divorced, she was engaged to DH's (former) best friend, then married 3 months after that. But of course, it was "different for them" because "the kids already had a relationship with him". And, of course, they kindly advised DH and I to "slow our relationship down" because it was too hard for the kids 

You and I couldn't make this stuff up if we TRIED... .

Panda39 had some good feedback on, in this situation, making things about your sons. Clearly Dad's actions are showing that he's making this all about him. So, what you can do is validate your kids to make it about them and how they're feeling.

Not having teen boys, I'm not sure how well this would work -- so let me know what you think -- but you could try using their body language as an entry to conversation:

"S15, you look kind of down -- what's going on?" "S19, I noticed you're looking out the car window a lot -- something on your mind?"

I'm on the fence about verbalizing to them that you're OK and will continue to be OK no matter what. I think I get what you're trying to do, which is high on my list to try to do with DH's girls -- to NOT be the parent who is emotionally needy and leans on the kids or sends tacit messages that they need to act a certain way for me to be happy. That makes a lot of sense. I wonder, though, if you can communicate that by what you do even more than by what you say. Not sure how that would look in your situation, but it's something to think about.

So sorry you and your boys are going through this. It's really hard on the kids.

[formflier]

BG,

Sorry you are having to deal with this.  You ex is being very selfish and appears to have "his own interests" at heart... .vice those of his child.  That saddens me greatly... .angers me actually.

I think you need to be proactive about this, yet I don't think this is an "urgent" matter.  I would let the T guide you in how to bring this up... ask general questions that let him fill in the blanks (him being your son).  After several conversations, if he doesn't directly raise the issue... I'm hoping your T will advise you to bring it up directly.

"I believe you are aware your Dad is dating again.  I'm sure you are sorting out your feelings about this and if you want to discuss this for me, please know I'm available to talk.   It's important to me that you understand our relationship is secure and you can bring up anything that is on your mind."  (something like that)

BG... you and I belong to the "fixer" and "overfunctioner" club... .I've had to learn to be a bit more patient that I'm comfortable with to let kids thoughts and emotions come out.

Yet... .there is a time and place to be direct and clear with your child, even if he chooses not  to communicate back about that.

Let your T guide you in this.

Good grief... .the impact of selfish people... .again... pisses me off.

FF

[livednlearned]

S15, I know there has been a lot of change in our family that has been happening really quickly lately, do you have any questions for me?  How are you feeling about things?

That sounds great  

Don't make this stuff about yourself, if you can. It's like kryptonite to a kid in emotional turmoil. He has a father who isn't seeing him, so be the parent who does.

Also, if I remember correctly, S15 was leaving church without telling people a while back. This secretary business is probably connected, no?

For some reason, S15 does not feel safe telling you why he is doing things. Or, he doesn't have the emotional language to express how he feels. If it's really bad, he won't even know what he's feeling, much less why.

That stuff is way more important than telling him how you feel about the secretary.

And it's ok to be honest. You were pissed that the secretary and her son sat there and ate BBQ. It was rude and wrong and totally tone deaf. His actions to hook up with the secretary at your church ruined a lot of relationships and destroyed the family. Maybe right now is not the time to be ok with things. Maybe right now is the time to find out how S15 feels, and let him be angry and hurt.

The day my son learned his dad had a mental illness was like a banner day with rockets going off. Within about 30 minutes of him puzzling together a lot of confusing stuff, I went and told him I forgave his dad and wasn't angry. I basically clipped my son's wings in that important moment. For one, these emotions coming out were perfectly appropriate, the moment wasn't about me, and why was I rushing him to accept things just because I was? I had had years to make sense of my ex, and a boatload of therapy. My son had 30 minutes.

I had to go back and undo that moment, and tell him I was wrong to talk about forgiveness, and that it's ok to be angry when people hurt us, even if those people include someone who is supposed to love us, who we are trying hard to love in return.

My last two cents is that your H cannot be trusted to wait and tell your kids anything. If it's an important topic that requires skill, tell your S15 what's going on with his T present.

I do this with S16 and it works well. I go in for 15 minutes, the T skillfully handles us, then I offer to leave so they can talk. Sometimes S16 will open up in the car and tell me things he said in that session. Sometimes he is quiet.

I think what we are going for is emotional safety and when an adult can't handle that task, then you have to create that safety another way.

[ForeverDad]

And it's ok to be honest... .Maybe right now is not the time to be ok with things. Maybe right now is the time to find out how S15 feels, and let him be angry and hurt.

It's okay to state you have different standards or values than the other parent and (respectfully and at a good time) even detail how your standards or values make sense to you and ask your child how he feels about it.  It's not a Blamefest but discussing the pros and cons.  That you don't agree with ex's method of making choices but that life going forward requires you to accept the framework of "what is".

My last two cents is that your H cannot be trusted to wait and tell your kids anything. If it's an important topic that requires skill, tell your S15 what's going on with his T present.

Again, it is what it is.  As with boundaries, you can't expect a person, especially a disordered person, to always do the right thing.  Maybe sometimes.  You have to include that in your plans and expectations.

[BeagleGirl]

Don't make this stuff about yourself, if you can. It's like kryptonite to a kid in emotional turmoil. He has a father who isn't seeing him, so be the parent who does.

Also, if I remember correctly, S15 was leaving church without telling people a while back. This secretary business is probably connected, no?

My last two cents is that your H cannot be trusted to wait and tell your kids anything. If it's an important topic that requires skill, tell your S15 what's going on with his T present.

First of all, I want to thank all of you for your responses.  I got a lot out of each of them. 

All of you said something similar to the first thing I quoted for LnL - don't make this about me and my feelings.  I'm finding myself really glad that this is a non-custodial week for me, because it gives me more time and space to process my feelings so they don't get in the way of me hearing my boys' feelings. 

Another thing that really struck me was that in an attempt to "fix" things for S15, I could easily communicate to him that it's not okay to feel the things he's feeling, and that's definitely not something I want to do.  I'm still working through my anger and I know the damage it can do to stuff that anger rather than dealing with it.  I do suspect that he has known, on some level, about his dad's relationship with the church secretary for a while.  It would make sense that he didn't feel he could express his feelings about that knowledge/suspicion and that was some of the cause of his "disappearing" from church and other instances of acting out.  I definitely want to create a safe space for him, and if he wants to fill it with anger as he works through it - that could be really healing.

LnL - your last two cents have a lot of relevance that I probably need to work through soon.  dBPDxh has the "nuclear bomb" of things he can tell our kids and hurt them in the process of hurting me.  He could tell them that I had an affair 4 years ago.  Our kids, to the best of my knowledge, don't know about it.  I've debated telling them so that I can better control the way they learn of it, but I have felt like the benefit of waiting until a less turbulent time to reveal it to them outweighs the risk of dBPDxh telling them.  I'm hoping that his new love takes some focus off of the desire to hurt me, but based on his actions this weekend, I don't have a lot of faith in his discretion.  And if they don't seem to be "warming up" to his GF, I can see him sharing that information with them in a bid to paint me blacker than himself and his GF.

I'll be talking with my T and his T about all of this on Monday.  In the meantime, I thank you all for the guidance.  It's given me lots of food for thought.

BG

[ForeverDad]

Many years ago, more than I want to admit, I told my sibling something about his ex that his kids already knew.  I was into family history and was the young family genealogist.  While searching records at the county's offices, I looked up his second marriage.  I noticed his ex filed for a marriage license a week after his license was issued.  When I told him he admitted feeling a bit guilty since he remarried first.  That she waited mere weeks until he remarried first made it so hard on him.  There was indication of infidelity but he didn't have an admission from her.  Then I told him stunning news, it was her third marriage.  He had never learned that she had married after their divorce and she lived in a converted bus.  That marriage lasted just six months according to her (third) marriage application.  You could see the relief on his face, she had let him think she might not have been unfaithful to their marriage.  He had heard vague rumors about someone who could have been her but never any details or confirmation.

The part that applies here is that he told his teen children that I had read their mother's marriage application and shared with him that she had been married and then divorced or annulled without telling him.  He realized they had known all along when the response was, "Why did uncle FD do that?"  Surely they had been sworn to secrecy.  As I recall the secrecy was because he could have gotten some of his house's marital equity earlier than scheduled if he found out she had remarried.

For years I've been in frequent and close contact with my niece.  Yes, she had issues with her dad, that he had responded or got involved squabbling with their mother when they were still together and those were tough childhood memories for her but guess what?  For decades niece has not had a relationship with her mother, didn't even tell her mother when she had kids, but all these years was regularly visiting her father.

As for my own ended marriage, my son sometimes mentions something about life with mother but then adds he shouldn't say more.  Well, I guess I don't want him talking about life with me to her either.  The key lesson is that despite the reluctance to divulge information between homes, much of it appropriate, the children should share major things that we really should be aware of.

[livednlearned]

dBPDxh has the "nuclear bomb" of things he can tell our kids and hurt them in the process of hurting me.  

He sounds impulsive.

If I were a betting person, I would place bets on him having told the kids already. If only to neutralize his own guilt about having an affair.

I cannot imagine a person with BPD or NPD having the impulse control or empathy to be discreet about a detail like that. It would be like having a get out of jail free card and not using it.   .

If you were a teen and knew both parents had affairs, one was out in the open, the other wasn't, what would you want?

I haven't been in your shoes, but I have been human   and done things I regret.

One thing that helped me handle my mistakes comes from the book Love and Logic for Teens, about humbling ourselves when we don't know what we're doing. "I've never been in this situation and frankly, I'm fumbling my way through this. You can probably tell."

I tried hard, early on, to be the higher ground parent. I think that created emotional isolation for my son, and for me, tbh.

It was the book Don't Alienate the Kids by Bill Eddy that changed my mindset. It made me realize it isn't the content or topic or issue that matters so much, it's how I model for S16 emotional resilience when I'm floundering that counts.

Now, as a parent, I do things different. I have a lot of faults and I admit them. I feel the pain of having those faults, and express vulnerability, and try to let myself have unpleasant emotions before tidying them up and stuffing them back in their box.

That's partly what drew my son out of his emotional closet. He now does a similar version of this. He makes a mistake or does something he is ashamed of, or something that he doesn't understand about himself, and then he takes responsibility for it.

I didn't tell him to be that way. He does it because that's what I do, and it feels better than being emotionally isolated.

For my next trick, I plan to make no mistakes so he can be more like that too  

[formflier]

  I've debated telling them so that I can better control the way they learn of it, but I have felt like the benefit of waiting until a less turbulent time to reveal it to them outweighs the risk of dBPDxh telling them. 

I'm having a hard time imagining how this would be a good thing to discuss with a teenager.  Even if your ex told him or you found out about your son being told, I worry this would be validating that it is ok to discuss.

Perhaps (and that's a big perhaps) as an adult it might be appropriate, but even then that's hard for me to imagine.



FF