Finally accepting the reality

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I first was introduced to the idea 20 years ago, that my mother might have BPD.  I wasn't ready to accept it then.  She seems to be on the milder end of the spectrum.  I guess getting married was the wake up call I needed.  Although it took me 11 years into my marriage and the threat of my husband leaving before I was willing to set any boundaries.  As a mother myself, I realize that my mom does not know how to have a normal relationship with her children.  My husband and I chose to set boundaries with my mom a few weeks ago.  That was the last time I spoke to my mom.  What resulted was name calling on her part.  She wonders why she can't have normal, loving relationships with her kids.  I feel like I am finally seeing behind the curtain, and now I am angry at my dad for not standing up for himself and allowing her to treat us kids poorly most of our life.

[herkey18]

I first was introduced to the idea 20 years ago, that my mother might have BPD.  I wasn't ready to accept it then.  She seems to be on the milder end of the spectrum.  I guess getting married was the wake up call I needed.  Although it took me 11 years into my marriage and the threat of my husband leaving before I was willing to set any boundaries.  As a mother myself, I realize that my mom does not know how to have a normal relationship with her children.  My husband and I chose to set boundaries with my mom a few weeks ago.  That was the last time I spoke to my mom.  What resulted was name calling on her part.  She wonders why she can't have normal, loving relationships with her kids.  I feel like I am finally seeing behind the curtain, and now I am angry at my dad for not standing up for himself and allowing her to treat us kids poorly most of our life.

[Woolspinner2000]

Welcome herkey18, 

I'm so glad you've found us and that you've shared your first post but I'm sorry for the circumstances that brought you here. It can be rather shocking to begin to 'see' as the blinders begin to drop off. I've been going through the same thing myself in my journey to healing from my uBPDm.

Have you read any books about BPD? If so, what has been the most helpful? Here is my own favorite: Surviving a Borderline Parent.

It takes a lot of courage to begin to set boundaries and to hold to them. Don't be surprised if she tries to break through them. They are for you and your protection. What types of things are you holding firm on?

You'll find a great group here that is understanding and knows what it has been like for you. We are family. 

 
Wools

[BabySister]

Welcome herkey18 
I just joined yesterday and totally relate to your entire post. It's tough to accept the reality of what's really going on! I've been dealing with this stuff for decades, although it's my brother with BPD I have a similar spill over into my relationship with my husband as I get really affected by the nasty, name calling, accusatory texts and phone calls if I'm not behaving the way my brother expects me to and not there enough for him. I wind up talking about it with my husband day after day, night after night. For the past few years I have been starting to set limits and not accept the behavior. It's difficult. My parents enable my brother, he lives with them so it's me vs. them.

I also relate to your anger at your father, feeling like you were allowed to go unprotected. My mother was and can still be very emotionally abusive, she guilts me big time, threatens, etc. I've never liked the way she treats and talks to my dad. Growing up, she said some completely inappropriate things to me about her feelings for my dad, she was jealous of me and more. After reading How to Stop Walking on Eggshells, I see a great deal of my mother in the book as well as perhaps an undiagnosed pwBPD.

Good for you posting on here! Looking forward to chatting with you.

[etown]

I just wanted to reinforce what's been said before. This feels very familiar. Every time I've tried to set reasonable boundaries with my mom, it's erupted in an argument and I have eventually relented and allowed things to go back to how they were before. Recently, I've become much more strict. It hurt, but I came to the conclusion with the help of my counsellor that her behaviour was negatively affecting my life. I tried to be loving, but of course, her response was hostile. She dug up some old stuff to use against me, told me that by trying to heal from decades old trauma, I was living in the past and that I would regret cutting off contact with my mother. This seems to be a regular refrain when setting boundaries around contact. The more you assert yourself, the louder the alarm. But in the end, it really is for the better. Not having her as a chaotic presence in my life has made me feel safer and stronger than I ever have before. So hang on there. Be kind to yourself. And allow yourself to feel that anger--it's part of healing.

[herkey18]

Thank you everyone!  I am so glad to have found this group!  I have read Stop Caretaking The Borderline or Narcissist (this has been so helpful!)
And I am currently reading Stop Walking on Eggshells.  The hardest part about being raised with a mother with Undiagnosed BPD is that the behavior is just accepted as normal.  When it is in your family, you don't know any different.  One of my mom's favorite sayings as a child was "I'm you're parent, I don't have to respect you."  This is still her mantra today.   The recent event was the final straw for my husband and he let her know that she wasn't allowed to respect us in our own home and as parents.  She took that opportunity to then attack my husband.  Telling him he was a horrible parent and husband, he's always negative and she feels sorry for me.  Can't help but feel like she was projecting.  She has been very negative about my husband for the past year.  I am glad to finally be away from the toxicity.  I sent my mother a letter after the event and told her that in order to have a relationship two things had to happen.  THe first was she had to apologize to my husband, and the second is that we need to set some boundaries moving forward, perhaps with all of the siblings there and a counselor.  I had heard nothing from my parents for the past 3 weeks until last night.  My dad contacted me and said that he wanted to meet with just me to talk.  I told him that if he can't meet with my husband and I, then a meeting wasn't happening.  He wasn't willing to come talk to us.  I feel very abandoned by my parents. I am really trying to take all of this in.  I start seeing a counselor the first part of July, so I am really grateful for this group!
'

[BabySister]

That's good advice from etown.

Wow, that is some mantra from your mom, I've never heard that one. One of my friends always tells me set your objection, intention, and check your emotions. Even if the one thing I can do is get my parents going in the same direction as me, that is progress. Baby steps need to be acknowledged and praised as a little bit of progress. That may have been a big deal for your dad to say he was coming over to talk. It may just seem overwhelming to talk with both you and your hubby.

I had the same happen recently, my mom came over by herself to talk about my BPDb. That never happens. She always has my dad with her. So it's a small change. My friend suggested writing out a list of items I want to address, keep the list to myself and start small. Hope some of this helps you too.

I hear you on feeling abandoned. Awesome you are going to see someone to honor and talk about your feelings in all of this! 

[Panda39]

I sent my mother a letter after the event and told her that in order to have a relationship two things had to happen.  THe first was she had to apologize to my husband, and the second is that we need to set some boundaries moving forward, perhaps with all of the siblings there and a counselor. 

Excellent boundary   Boundaries are about protecting ourselves you've done a nice job.  How do your siblings feel about your mom?  Do they see what you see?

I had heard nothing from my parents for the past 3 weeks until last night.  My dad contacted me and said that he wanted to meet with just me to talk.  I told him that if he can't meet with my husband and I, then a meeting wasn't happening.  He wasn't willing to come talk to us.  I feel very abandoned by my parents.

It sounds like your dad recognized that he can't play the usual game with your husband.  We all have our rolls in our families and he was coming over to get you to play yours but you blocked with your husband, who is outside of the family dynamic and can see things for what they are.  Your dad wasn't going to be able to use the same tactics he uses on you, with your husband.  My guess is your were going to get FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail from your mother through your dad. 

More on FOG... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

From your post I can also see Triangulation going on between you, your mom and your dad.  You want to avoid the triangle if you can.  From your mom's point of view she is the victim, you are the persecutor and your dad is the rescuer, from your dad's point of view he is the victim, mom is the persecutor and you are the rescuer... .and round and round everyone goes on the triangle.  The issue here is between you and your mom but she is putting your dad in the middle or your dad is under pressure by her so he puts himself in the middle (to influence/pressure you to drop your boundary) and by doing so you are thrust on to the triangle again.

More on the Karpman Triangle... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

I hope this information is helpful, I've really appreciated learning about the dynamics that are going on under the surface, for me it helps to take some of the emotion out of things and when I do that I can take things less personally.

Panda39

[herkey18]

Thank you Panda39!  I think you have hit the nail on the head.

[herkey18]

Today I feel frustrated that my parents continue on with their life like there is no rift between us.  Over Father's Day weekend, my parents got together with some of my siblings at a steak house.  Because of our recent argument and NC, my husband and I of course did not attend.  Part of me felt very betrayed by my siblings for going, knowing how I have been treated.  But then I realize that in the past when someone else was fighting with my mom, I didn't think twice about it, and maybe even felt relieved to still be in mom's good graces. 

My parents celebrate their 40th wedding anniversary this week and decided that they were going to rent a cabin at a lake and have everyone come together.  This has been in the planning stages for months, but In pure BPD fashion, there was no input from any of the children on date and whether one would be able to attend, it was just expected that you would be there. Anyone not jumping at the chance to be there was considered selfish and uncaring.  Out of 5 children in my family, only 2 of my siblings will be attending.  I obviously won't because of NC with my mom.  My brother just younger than me admitted that he tries to keep a low profile with mom and already had a camping trip of his own that he was going to attend.  He could have canceled it but decided he would rather not be holed up in a cabin with my mom for a weekend.  It is frustrating to me that my brother can't/won't be honest with my mom.  But I get it, I was honest and currently have no relationship with my parents.  My sister lives out of state with her girlfriend.  My parents do not accept that my sister has a girlfriend and they have had a rift for years.  Ironically, my sister has been thriving since she has been away for the past 7 years.  My parents try to make her out to be the bad guy because she has turned her back on religion.  Because of recent events, my sister and I have become closer. Fortunately my brother and sister see what I see, but my other 2 siblings continue to make excuses and ignore behaviors.

3 out of the 5 kids won't be there and yet my parents continue to act like they are the victims. I have just started on this journey, but I hope there comes a day that I don't care any more.  That I don't care that my family is dysfunctional and not like the families I see planning reunions year after year.  I won't care that my parents put on a front that everyone else is the problem.  And maybe I won't expect anything more from them. 

[Panda39]

3 out of the 5 kids won't be there and yet my parents continue to act like they are the victims. I have just started on this journey, but I hope there comes a day that I don't care any more.  That I don't care that my family is dysfunctional and not like the families I see planning reunions year after year.  I won't care that my parents put on a front that everyone else is the problem.  And maybe I won't expect anything more from them. 

It's hard when you don't have a family that behaves the way we hope they will behave or parents who are incapable of giving us what we need. It is a process to work through this stuff, it is a process to figure out what we need and what is best for us, it is a process to set boundaries based on what we think is best for ourselves, it is a process to adjust to things once those boundaries are in place, it is a process of letting go of some hopes and expectations, it is grieving, it is a process to create your own happiness and to fill your life with a new family a family of your own choosing.

And just a little P.S. yes there are many happy families out there even some that look ideal, but no family is perfect all families have issues and problems, both big and small many of them hidden from the outside world... .many families are keeping up appearances.  I know you're feeling sad and that everyone seems to have the perfect happy family or at least that's what it feels like to you right now but real families are somewhere in between the dysfunction and the ideal.

Nurture your relationships with your siblings they can be part of the new family you choose to have.  Include your best friends in that family.  Surround yourself with the people that love and accept you just the way you are.

Take Care,
Panda39

[herkey18]

For those of you following my story, my dad reached out again, and this time agreed to meet with both my husband and I.  He is coming over on Thursday afternoon.  I am very anxious about it because I don't know what to expect.  I am not sure why he changed his mind (last time he wanted to meet just me without my husband)
I shouldn't feel anxious, we are meeting at my house and my husband will be with me.  I just worry that I will freeze up and I won't say the right thing. I met with my therapist today and she said it is very important for me to make sure that my husband and I are on the same page.  Trying to prep myself for Thursday and can use any words of advice or encouragement.

[Libra]

Hi Herkey18,

What helps me in interactions with my mother is to think before I act. That sounds simple, but for me it still takes a lot of focus. My first reaction is pre-programmed, and purely based on emotion. I am trying to teach myself to take a deep breath, take a step back and try to look at the conversation as an observer (a very good tip I got from Panda39  ).
I always feel pressured into replying immediately, but that is a certain way to give an emotional reaction instead of a well-funded reply.

You have every right to your own opinion, so don't give in to the need to JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain).

Try to discuss boundaries beforehand with your husband: what do you both consider as acceptable, what is off-limits? That way you can act as a team and support each other. Standing strong together is invaluable.

My husband has been a great support these past months: he understands that my own set of values and interpretations are heavily clouded by FOG and low self-esteem, and I can rely on him to give objective and honest feedback every time I find myself stuck in a loop of FOG versus trying to live my own, independant life.

It is not easy, but know that you are not alone. We know how you feel, and we are here to listen and support you! 

Libra.

[Panda39]

I shouldn't feel anxious, we are meeting at my house and my husband will be with me.  I just worry that I will freeze up and I won't say the right thing. I met with my therapist today and she said it is very important for me to make sure that my husband and I are on the same page.  Trying to prep myself for Thursday and can use any words of advice or encouragement.

You won't "say the "right thing" to who?  What is the "right thing" to say?  I think the question here really is what is the "right thing" for you.  This isn't about pleasing other people this is about what you need out of the relationship. 

I agree with the therapist you and your husband want to present a united front... .good plan.

Panda39

[Harri]

You won't "say the "right thing" to who?  What is the "right thing" to say?  I think the question here really is what is the "right thing" for you.  This isn't about pleasing other people this is about what you need out of the relationship.

 

Panda is so right.  Say what you have to say for you. 

Let us know how it goes tomorrow.   

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Herkey18,

Isn't it amazing how nervous we can get as adults when faced with the upcoming 'talk' from one of our parents? That never ceases to amaze me. Even at work if someone says, "Can you come into my office when you get a chance? I want to talk with you," it still nearly causes me to freeze. I'm not sure that others see it, but my insides certainly feel it! For me it isn't connected to a specific memory either, but it is an automatic reaction bringing me to high alert and the desire to flee, knowing I must have done something wrong. At this point in my life, that is not usually the case, but my little inner children don't think so. Do you feel that way too? Maybe it is something we can explore together.

There are a couple of ideas I thought I'd pass on to you as you anticipate meeting with your dad (or anyone for that matter). One is to have the freedom to excuse yourself from the area as needed so you can go and breathe. It's a little bag of tricks such as, "Oh, excuse me. I need to go to the bathroom." Or something about transferring the laundry, or letting the dogs out, stirring the food on the stove... .basically anything to interrupt the intensity and give you a way out.

Another idea that I love and often use is to go down the non committal route if your dad or your mom ask for something and want a commitment. You can quite easily say, "That's an interesting idea. Let me get back to you on that. I need some time to think about it before I decide" (even if you already KNOW that you will never ever do what they want you to do).  This is a way to slow down the stress and to allow yourself to be in the driver's seat and empowered. 

Do you think any of these things might be helpful to you?

 
Wools

[herkey18]

This isn't about pleasing other people this is about what you need out of the relationship. 
I agree with the therapist you and your husband want to present a united front... .good plan.

Panda39

I am happy to say that the meeting with my dad went well today. I held my ground and let my dad know that if my mom didn't see a problem with how she has been treating my husband and I, then there is no way to move forward for now.  My husband and I were able to present a united front.  We discussed before hand how conversation might go, and I was prepared. I also kept in mind what Panda39 said, what do I need out of the relationship?  The honest answer is I need things to change.  I need to not continue down the same path that I have been on regarding my mom. As things stand now, we are continuing NC with my mom.  My dad was very interested in some of the information/research that I have conducted on Borderline personality disorder.  He says that my mom has agreed to see a counselor and he is going to get her into one.  I feel better after meeting with him, so that is a good sign.  I just hope that he follows through on his end.   I read a quote recently that said something to the effect that taking a stand is such a hard thing to do, it is easier to concede or compromise, but sometimes you just have to take a stand. 

[Learning2Thrive]

  Herkey18!

I’m glad to hear the meeting with your dad went well. That’s wonderful.

My dad was very interested in some of the information/research that I have conducted on Borderline personality disorder.  He says that my mom has agreed to see a counselor and he is going to get her into one.  I feel better after meeting with him, so that is a good sign.  I just hope that he follows through on his end.

Yes. It will be interesting to see what he does on his end.

However, no matter what he does—or what your mother does—you have taken a united stand with your husband for yourselves. You are worthy of love and respect, most of all your own.  Creating and maintaining healthy boundaries is critical to your own health, healing and recovery. Keep loving yourselves and hold on to each other.  

[Learning2Thrive]

One of my mom's favorite sayings as a child was "I'm you're parent, I don't have to respect you.

My mum said something similar anytime I or any of my sibs said anything that remotely questioned her on any level. Her favorite response was, "Cuz I am the Mum and you are the kid.” And it was always spewed with vitriol and a variety of threats and/or additional punishment.

[Harri]

Good to hear herkey.  I am glad your father was able to listen to you and respect the both of you.

Good job.  Speaking up and standing firm is very hard... .but it gets easier the more you do it.