Constant double standards...on my last nerve

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

There has been a long standing double standard about having visitors in our house.  My uBPDw believes, according to how she acts, that she can have anyone in our house at anytime without communicating with me.  That is all well and good.  I could honestly care less most of the time.  There is one caveat to that which I will go in to later.  This afternoon, she had the pastor over to the house about an hour before I got home.  He left just as I was coming up the driveway.  He said that he had just stopped by to drop off the dog.  Anyway, getting back to the point, I had a customer/neighbor stop by to pick up something I had made for him.  He was in the entryway for 5 minutes and then left.  When I told her he had stopped by, she lost it.  I need to check with her first and I have no business letting anyone in the house without checking with her.  She needs to verify that the house is 'presentable', no laundry sitting out etc.  This double standard is constant and really to the extreme.  She was involved with a local organization to help single mothers get education/jobs.  Her role was to mentor one of the girls.  The girl that she was assigned had a young child, probably about 6 months old.  The woman had been in and out of jail and her current bf was in jail on rape charges.  My wife set up to watch the child while the girl went to school/work.  This involved dropping the child off at our house.  I communicated that I was not comfortable with her being in our house or knowing where we live due to the past history this person had.  She basically told me she didn't care, she was going to do what she wanted to do.  I told her that I was perfectly ok with her watching the child but that they should meet at a neutral location to pick up and drop off.  She refused and stated that she was going to do whatever she wanted.  Also, when I went on a trip back home to celebrate my father's birthday, she set up to have two of her 'friends' visit and stay in our house.  She said nothing to me about what her plans were.  I found out about it when I called to talk to the kids and they told me.  I have voiced my concerns about both of these women for years.  I have not tried to control her in any way with interacting or communicating with them.  One of them is very paranoid and has law enforcement experience.   I have overheard many conversations about tapping phones etc over the years.  When I found out, I just completely lost it.  I was JADEing like no one has ever JADEed before.  I was very angry.  If I had even thought about having anyone visit and stay in the house without her there, she would have probably killed me or made me wish I was dead.  I do not plan on addressing the current issue, at least not until I have myself calmed down and thinking straight. 

Woodchuck

[Woodchuck]

There has been a long standing double standard about having visitors in our house.  My uBPDw believes, according to how she acts, that she can have anyone in our house at anytime without communicating with me.  That is all well and good.  I could honestly care less most of the time.  There is one caveat to that which I will go in to later.  This afternoon, she had the pastor over to the house about an hour before I got home.  He left just as I was coming up the driveway.  He said that he had just stopped by to drop off the dog.  Anyway, getting back to the point, I had a customer/neighbor stop by to pick up something I had made for him.  He was in the entryway for 5 minutes and then left.  When I told her he had stopped by, she lost it.  I need to check with her first and I have no business letting anyone in the house without checking with her.  She needs to verify that the house is 'presentable', no laundry sitting out etc.  This double standard is constant and really to the extreme.  She was involved with a local organization to help single mothers get education/jobs.  Her role was to mentor one of the girls.  The girl that she was assigned had a young child, probably about 6 months old.  The woman had been in and out of jail and her current bf was in jail on rape charges.  My wife set up to watch the child while the girl went to school/work.  This involved dropping the child off at our house.  I communicated that I was not comfortable with her being in our house or knowing where we live due to the past history this person had.  She basically told me she didn't care, she was going to do what she wanted to do.  I told her that I was perfectly ok with her watching the child but that they should meet at a neutral location to pick up and drop off.  She refused and stated that she was going to do whatever she wanted.  Also, when I went on a trip back home to celebrate my father's birthday, she set up to have two of her 'friends' visit and stay in our house.  She said nothing to me about what her plans were.  I found out about it when I called to talk to the kids and they told me.  I have voiced my concerns about both of these women for years.  I have not tried to control her in any way with interacting or communicating with them.  One of them is very paranoid and has law enforcement experience.   I have overheard many conversations about tapping phones etc over the years.  When I found out, I just completely lost it.  I was JADEing like no one has ever JADEed before.  I was very angry.  If I had even thought about having anyone visit and stay in the house without her there, she would have probably killed me or made me wish I was dead.  I do not plan on addressing the current issue, at least not until I have myself calmed down and thinking straight. 

Woodchuck

[formflier]

Sorry dude... .this is "hooking you"  I get "hooked" by the "preposterousness" of it all (brand new FF word) lots of times too.

My advice... .bring over who you want... when you want.  When she complains... offer to come to mutual written agreement.  Let her run the show... you only point out inconsistencies.

You keep doing what you want until you get an agreement... if it gets that far.

"Help me understand how this agreements treats each of us equally" (don't use fair)

Let her do the work.

She will likely figure out she doesn't want to explain it.

Sorry dude... .these are tactics to make this better... but they don't fix anything.  At best it hands some uncomfortable stuff back to her.

FF

[Woodchuck]

Sorry dude... .this is "hooking you"  I get "hooked" by the "preposterousness" of it all (brand new FF word) lots of times too.

My advice... .bring over who you want... when you want.  When she complains... offer to come to mutual written agreement.  Let her run the show... you only point out inconsistencies.

You keep doing what you want until you get an agreement... if it gets that far.

"Help me understand how this agreements treats each of us equally" (don't use fair)

Let her do the work.

She will likely figure out she doesn't want to explain it.

Sorry dude... .these are tactics to make this better... but they don't fix anything.  At best it hands some uncomfortable stuff back to her.

FF

Formflier -
I have thought about doing that.  The part that makes me conflicted is demonstrating respect and love etc to the children.  I don't want to teach them that it is ok do be like that.  If it was just the two of us and no kids, I wouldn't have a problem with it.  Trust me, it is still tempting, I just don't know that it is the best way to handle things with kids in the picture.

Woodchuck

[formflier]

You lost me a bit on demonstrating this to your kids...

Why would they know if you have discussed it with your wife.  That's an adult conversation... .not a kid one.

Do they know you wife DID NOT ask? 

My guess is I missed some of your point here... so... help get me back on track.

You can demonstrate to your kids that you are reasonable.  Checking to see if someone can come over at 11pm and bang drums for 3 hours... .yeah... .good thing to check.

Someone stopping by to conduct some quick thing at noon.  No... .people stop by... .that's what happens.

Sure... it's nice to give a heads up and be considerate... but what has that gotten you?  (I'm not saying you stop being considerate)  Very different than being a pushover... .or giving her control.

Note:  I'm not suggesting she will like it... that's really not my or your concern.

FF

[Notwendy]

I agree to not be rude and disrespectful to others, but we also send a message to our kids when we tolerate our boundaries being violated and enable a disordered person. Children learn from their role models. I had two- BPD mother and co-dependent enabling father. Because my mother's behaviors were so obvious, I knew I didn't want to act like her. I also bonded more with my father. Kids don't have a sense of "normal" already. Parents are their "normal". I perceived my father as the normal one, and also thought he was a victim of my mother's behaviors. It was only when I faced my own co-dependent enabling behaviors that I realized he had them too. With the two role models I had, I chose to model his behavior, and while that was not as disruptive as BPD - it also contributed to dysfunction. One of the main motivators for me to work on my own behavior was to not pass this pattern on to my children.

There are times when it is more important to "keep the peace" than others, but consider that learning to stand up for yourself and maintain a sense of reality for yourself is a better example for your children than giving in to keep the peace. It isn't easy to learn these new relationship skills, and we may fall back on our habits at times, but gaining these skills helps you and your children.

For now, try not to take your wife's sense of reality to heart. There are times she will say what she says in the moment to justify her position but that doesn't mean you have to accept her feelings as facts to you. We should not cruelly discount the feelings of others- she feels what she feels but they don't have to define our reality. It is possible to stay grounded while someone says something that doesn't make sense. We don't have to tolerate abuse, but if she tells you something that doesn't make sense to you, then you don't have to believe it.

One of my favorite lines from a Dr. Phil show about a family with a disordered person was " You are all lost in the woods and you are looking to a disordered person to lead you out? ".  I think it is important to consider your wife's feelings, but you don't have to look to these feelings to lead all your actions.

[Cat Familiar]

How she can somehow justify it's OK being able to invite whomever she wants to the house without telling you, yet you having a customer who is a neighbor pick up something you made for him is not OK without her being notified beforehand--     Right out of the BPD playbook.

Knowing that's how they see "reality" I've had to learn to let these sort of things go and figure out which battles are worth fighting over. Otherwise it's just too exhausting to keep track of all the "unfairness".

And when you don't get lost in the weeds over these little naggingly annoying issues, then you have much more energy to confront the important stuff.

As an example, I used to ask my husband about getting some home repairs done. He's currently the one who has money (now, lots of it)--it was originally me who did and I was the one who paid for a huge addition to my little house so that we could live together. He inevitably gets grumpy about spending money and lots of times in the past, I gave up getting something fixed because I didn't want the fight.

I'm the home repair person in the family--he has no clue--but lots of things are above my pay grade or too physically demanding for a small woman without help--and he is of no use typically when I've tried to ask him to assist me in construction projects--just a lot of whining, swearing and complaining, and then thinking that he knows more than he does. 

In the past, I'd try to talk with him about his "feelings" about fixing the toilet that doesn't flush properly. Now I just researched the pressure assist flush tank, ordered it online and told him the plumber is coming to install it.

He still would grimace whenever I ask him for a check, but I often can alleviate that part by paying with a credit card.

After the job was done, I thanked him profusely now that the toilet is flushing properly! (And while the plumber was here, I got him to take care of five other minor issues that were on my "to do" list!  )

It's taken me a while to figure out not to engage in conflicts where I know what the outcome will be beforehand. Much better to just take care of things and then be happy with a good result.

So to go back to your example--"Isn't it great that Neighbor Bob bought the gizmo I made for him?" Ignore the grousing. Don't even think about the unfairness. "Oops--I've got to go and turn off the water to the lawn."

I've got a giant list of things I suddenly have to do so as not to stand around listening to grumbling: animal medications, irrigation on or off, check on something on the stove or in the oven, laundry in the dryer, returning an email or phone call, feeding critters, etc.

[Red5]

Good Morning Woodchuck,

The girl that she was assigned had a young child, probably about 6 months old.  The woman had been in and out of jail and her current bf was in jail on rape charges.  My wife set up to watch the child while the girl went to school/work.  This involved dropping the child off at our house.

That's sets off a little red warning light for me, .I completely understand about helping out as anyone would want to do, however; considering what you wrote, about alleged bf, .that's not something you may want get involved in too far, that's a risk to me, what if bf came to your home, to collect the baby, of to get back at the woman, now we are talking "on your doorstep"... .not a good situation imho.

How many times have we read about stalkers, and folks with ill intent in regards to troubled mothers with small children, .

… quick story, I was ushering in Church this last Sunday, and after services had started, this young lady, and four little ones, came through the front door, we immediately welcomed her, and got her and the little ones a good seat in the sanctuary, we had never seen them before around town... .one of the four little ones was about three months old, and so after Church, all the ladies wanted to meet her, and love up on the little ones, particular the baby... .turns out she was from a woman's shelter right down the street, that I knew nothing about… you know; the ones no one is supposed to know about , so the ex's cannot find them, ie' battered... .so after Church, we were leaving, and saw this woman walking down the sidewalk with all the little ones, and the little baby on her arm, so my W says to me, why don’t we ask her to lunch with us, I liked this idea, as “maybe we can help her out somehow”…

… so we collected them all, and took them all down the road to the buffet, and W and I took turns holding the baby so mom could eat, and also her other little ones, she told us what was going on, where she was from, and what had happened to her, and the little ones… long story short, she had been shipped away from her own town, by the system for her and the little ones protection, as sig-other (ex-bf/husband?) was a pretty bad dude, in fact she told us that “he” had found them in the last place, and the system had moved her and the little ones to our town only in the last twenty-four hours… I had no idea that this particular facility even existed right down the street from our Church… I drive by it all the time… wow !

After lunch, we took them back to the shelter by her directions, and we told them to please come back to Church and worship, and visit us, and that we wanted to help in whatever capacity that we could… she told us, that we should tell no one about any of this, so we hugged her, and the little ones, and they went inside, and we drove away… wow !

I cried…

Yeah, got to be careful of someone out there who may want to do bad things, yes, protect the little ones by ALL means, but be careful as you get involved, and help out, as you never know who you may come across.

Red5

[jsgirl360]

Woodchuck,

The more I read these boards, the more I'm realizing that so many BPD behaviors are standard and text book.  Things I thought my husband did that were unique to him, really aren't unique at all.

I can relate to your visitor situation with your wife. I too am not permitted to bring friends to the house (which is actually owned by my mother, who lives above us.) If I do attempt to bring friends over, husband will rage, even right in front of my guests. Due to his behavior, most of my friends have no desire to visit.  However... .he can freely invite who he wants... .even moving questionable guests in for months at a time and expecting me to feed them/support them.

The last time I asked to bring friends over was early this year, for Super Bowl Sunday. He was having some guests over, so I figured it would be okay to ask a few of my coworkers over as well. When I suggested this, the resulting rage was so bad that he was threatening to move out. End result... his guests came over... .I didn't invite anyone. Since then, I haven't even mentioned having friends to the house. Instead I do day trips and lunches outside the house with friends,  usually while he's at work.

I'm at a loss to give any kind of advice on the topic. I've always been a "pushover".  I let him have his way to keep the peace, especially in front of the kids.  With these BPD's there is no way to come to a reasonable compromise.  "Reasonable" in their mind is so very different than "reasonable" in the mind of a non. If you just continued to allow people to visit you, without formally asking (like she does), what do you think the results would be? Would she accept it eventually?

[Woodchuck]

Woodchuck,

The more I read these boards, the more I'm realizing that so many BPD behaviors are standard and text book.  Things I thought my husband did that were unique to him, really aren't unique at all.

I can relate to your visitor situation with your wife. I too am not permitted to bring friends to the house (which is actually owned by my mother, who lives above us.) If I do attempt to bring friends over, husband will rage, even right in front of my guests. Due to his behavior, most of my friends have no desire to visit.  However... .he can freely invite who he wants... .even moving questionable guests in for months at a time and expecting me to feed them/support them.

The last time I asked to bring friends over was early this year, for Super Bowl Sunday. He was having some guests over, so I figured it would be okay to ask a few of my coworkers over as well. When I suggested this, the resulting rage was so bad that he was threatening to move out. End result... his guests came over... .I didn't invite anyone. Since then, I haven't even mentioned having friends to the house. Instead I do day trips and lunches outside the house with friends,  usually while he's at work.

I'm at a loss to give any kind of advice on the topic. I've always been a "pushover".  I let him have his way to keep the peace, especially in front of the kids.  With these BPD's there is no way to come to a reasonable compromise.  "Reasonable" in their mind is so very different than "reasonable" in the mind of a non. If you just continued to allow people to visit you, without formally asking (like she does), what do you think the results would be? Would she accept it eventually?

jsgirl360-
Good morning!  I have been a bit surprised about how 'text book' these behaviors are after reading many of the posts here.  Realizing that makes you feel a bit less alone. 
My W is a little bit different as she will put on a mask when others are around, including guests she does not like or approve of.  If she knows ahead of time that I have someone coming over, she will go and 'hide' in the bedroom.  If she hears our neighbor knock (he has a very distinct knock), she will run out of the room and go hide.  Those kinds of instances combined with other anti-social behaviors such as not wanting to be part of any groups or parties etc are of a bit of a concern.  She will talk about having people over and I will encourage it when she does bring it up but she very very rarely follows through with those plans.  I have been a bit of a 'pushover' myself in an effort to keep some semblance of peace and respecting her wishes.  Is this really healthy?  Probably not to the extent that I have practiced it.  I have not taken care of me in efforts to take care of her.  I think that if I did continually bring people over, that nothing would change.  I do not believe that she would ever truly accept it but rather look at it as being rude and disrespectful.

Woodchuck

[Cat Familiar]

My BPD mother was avoidant, like your wife, and also she would put on a mask and feign politeness and interest. I think it was incredibly taxing for her to play that role. It was so weird and in retrospect, amusing, how she could switch characters and be really nasty to me, then turn around and be uber polite to some stranger.

[Red5]

My W is a little bit different as she will put on a mask when others are around... .

If I were to have an "out of body experience", .when neighbors stop by, or even my children, or her foo; and be able to observe my W's behavior at that time, "floating above"... .and then super imposed over "what I know" she is really like with me, when we are alone... .I would be very surprised, if I knew no better... .at the way she can "switch channels" so quickly, and effectively, .that is pretty crazy to me... .I've never been able to understand this type of behavior, .I've never been any good at the "poker face", others can always tell if I'm "off center", .it perplexes me to observe this with her.

Kind of like that Clint Eastwood movie, where he walks into a dinner that is being robbed, and the waitress puts way too much sugar in his coffee to go; to warn him that "things are not what they seem"... .yeah, her behavior is a "little too sweet" if you know what your looking for,

Red5

[udunnome81]

It was so weird and in retrospect, amusing, how she could switch characters and be really nasty to me, then turn around and be uber polite to some stranger.

Isn't that the truth... .treated me like absolute garbage, but would be the nicest person in the world to others... .people we didn't even know.

[jsgirl360]

Husband will sometimes hide in the other room. Other times, he will sit in the chair in the living room, looking at his iPad,  and ignoring guests as they walk in. He doesn't even look up or verbally acknowledge them. To me, this behavior is socially awkward.  It has also made my friends uncomfortable.  He will openly rage once he becomes more familiar with any guest.

I too have been a "pushover", easily giving in and allowing him to invite (or move in!) anyone he wants, while I go meet friends elsewhere... .and sometimes get verbal abuse for doing that as well.

I strongly feel that we're not helping the pwBPD by giving them their way. Husband surely isn't appreciative for it.  I also don't think repeatedly bringing friends over would "desensitize " him to visitors either. If anything,  it might embolden new and rageful behaviors.

Husband also repeatedly declines social events... .unless they involve certain work acquaintances and alcohol. I think he may have some underlying social anxiety,  because any time we were planning to attend an event together, he would dysregulate horribly beforehand and the outing would be ruined before we even left home. (His dysregulations last days or weeks.)  Nowadays I avoid going places with him.

[Woodchuck]

If I were to have an "out of body experience", ... .when neighbors stop by, or even my children, or her foo; and be able to observe my W's behavior at that time, "floating above" ... .and then super imposed over "what I know" she is really like with me, when we are alone ... .I would be very surprised, if I knew no better ... .at the way she can "switch channels" so quickly, and effectively, ... .that is pretty crazy to me ... .I've never been able to understand this type of behavior, ... .I've never been any good at the "poker face", others can always tell if I'm "off center", ... .it perplexes me to observe this with her.

Kind of like that Clint Eastwood movie, where he walks into a dinner that is being robbed, and the waitress puts way too much sugar in his coffee to go; to warn him that "things are not what they seem" ... .yeah, her behavior is a "little too sweet" if you know what your looking for,

Red5

The masks are very puzzling to me.  I think everyone uses masks to an extent and I think there are appropriate times to use masks.  For example, if you really don't care for your inlaws but you know that it is important to your spouse to spend time with them, I think that it would be appropriate to put on a mask and make the best of the situation.  That mask though, would be for the inlaws.  You would have to genuinely want to be supportive of your spouse and be happy for them to spend time with their family in spite of you not having the same feelings/connections.  I think the mask become a problem when you put it on with resentment or anger.  Your spouse knows that you are resentful/angry and knows that what is coming once you are alone is not going to be good.