Still trying to make sense of wife and BPD

[sadandlonely]

I lost this page for a while as life got crazy and busy. My wife has moved out and has been gone since July 1st. We still see each other now and again as we are selling our house and I just got an apartment on the first of August. We both hated the house so it really seems ok to be selling it.

Wednesday we got together and things were good. She still mentioned that she thinks we are terrible being married but she really missed me and wanted to still be friends. She talked my ear off for a few hours and ended by saying she still wanted to talk about things and was super emotional. I held it together and hugged her and felt pretty good.

Like a fool I texted her the next day saying that whatever is going on we should talk about it and work to move past it. She took that to mean I thought she was cheating so she immediately got mad and said she made a mistake the night before because she was sad and nostalgic, but now she is just mad. She said what she really wanted to tell me the night before is that she wants a divorce ASAP. She keeps saying we are bad together and she was unhappy, but I don't get a clear answer as to what that is.

I've made mistakes and been emotional. I begged her to stay and even became suicidal. In the last 2 weeks I never messaged her first, I only responded to her messages and calls. This seemed to draw her closer but I worry it also gives her enough space to forget me. Things seemed good on Wednesday but then she immediately changed it the next day.

I love my wife and want to get her back. Most of our married life has been great but since my dad died and she found her biological family she really seems to be pulling away. She is a wonderful woman and I don't want to lose her. I'm trying to work on me and just be ok with whatever outcome, but there are moments when the depression just shuts me down. Her therapist doesn't seem to be helping and I'm starting to think my wife has painted me black with her therapist because her therapist told her I shouldn't know where she is living or be able to go to her apartment. I don't know what to do if the therapist is buying her lies and I can't talk to her. My wife has only been diagnosed as Bi-polar, but I spoke with a Doctor from the Mayo clinic today that said based on what they heard she is a clear case for borderline. After I went through the first part of the "Stop walking on eggshells" workbook my wife was about a 27 and a 20 is considered borderline.

I need help and I don't know what to do. I feel like if I could just convince her to get DBT things could get better. I'm doing the best I can to be strong and show her I'm changing, but I'm afraid it is going too slowly and we will be divorced before I can win her back. I'm not even entirely sure how to win her back either if she barely talks to me and won't spend much time with me. Please help me, all advice is appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Wednesday we got together and things were good. She still mentioned that she thinks we are terrible being married but she really missed me and wanted to still be friends. She talked my ear off for a few hours and ended by saying she still wanted to talk about things and was super emotional.

Like a fool I texted her the next day saying that whatever is going on we should talk about it and work to move past it. She took that to mean I thought she was cheating so she immediately got mad and said she made a mistake the night before because she was sad and nostalgic, but now she is just mad. She said what she really wanted to tell me the night before is that she wants a divorce ASAP. She keeps saying we are bad together and she was unhappy, but I don't get a clear answer as to what that is.

I've made mistakes and been emotional. I begged her to stay and even became suicidal.

Please help me, all advice is appreciated.

Hi sadandlonely,

Sorry to hear you are having a tough time and your relationship is troubled.

It feels like there are some pieces of the story here that it would be helpful to know a bit more about if I may ask.

When she said she "still wanted to talk about things" what did she have in mind? What made her think you were bringing up cheating? Was that a previous issue between you two?

Do I understand correctly that you are unsure what about the marriage made her so unhappy and why she (sometimes?) thinks you were bad together?

Is she aware you were suicidal? If so how did you inform her of this?

Hope things can improve for each of you! Sorry things are so painful right now!

with compassion, pearl.

[sadandlonely]

I'm not sure what she had in mind to talk about, that is why I sent her the text. She just said she was having a difficult time and knew that when I asked her questions she would shut down. She said she wanted to give me answers but she was struggling to tell me.

In the past there has been cheating, that is how she was first diagnosed bi-polar. She also was talking to a guy recently and told me they only talked for the last 2 weeks and accused me of controlling her and looking at phone records. This seemed odd to me, so I did check the phone records and found she has been talking to this guy since March and has texted him more each month than anyone else. This did set off some PTSD for me at the time and I confronted her about it but she denied anything was going on and made me the bad guy for asking her about it. When I asked her about lying and the false 2 week comment she said she wouldn't have this conversation and we haven't talked about it in over a month.

When we were seeing a marriage therapist within a one hour session she accused me of doing nothing with her and by the end of the session she said I was smothering her. She always turns on a dime and finds a new reason why she just can't be married to me. When I have told her in the past how that isn't reality she just finds another reason or just says she is unhappy.

She is aware I was suicidal. In June when she first mentioned divorce and moved to her parents I went to the hospital to try and get medication. I did mention to the hospital that I felt suicidal so they locked me up for the weekend. She is aware of this and it was a huge mistake but I don't know how to get past that.

This hurts a lot and I don't know how to fix it. I know I should just let it be but I can barely function during the day between the depression and playing all my mistakes over in my head. I just want to fix things and get her back but I'm not sure how.

[pearlsw]

Hi sadandlonely,

Wanted to touch on a few more things here:

Wednesday we got together and things were good. She still mentioned that she thinks we are terrible being married but she really missed me and wanted to still be friends. She talked my ear off for a few hours and ended by saying she still wanted to talk about things and was super emotional. I held it together and hugged her and felt pretty good.

If she is saying she wants to be friends, and the relationship has deteriorated to this extent otherwise, then I think it might be a good idea to focus in on the friendship part as best you can, knowing, and being honest with yourself that you want more and that is your motivation with the friendship. In terms of how she will respond that may or may not work. If she really means “just friends” and you try to cross that barrier it could set off problems between you too. It’s early and understandable at this point though.

I love my wife and want to get her back. Most of our married life has been great but since my dad died and she found her biological family she really seems to be pulling away. She is a wonderful woman and I don't want to lose her. I'm trying to work on me and just be ok with whatever outcome, but there are moments when the depression just shuts me down. Her therapist doesn't seem to be helping and I'm starting to think my wife has painted me black with her therapist because her therapist told her I shouldn't know where she is living or be able to go to her apartment. I don't know what to do if the therapist is buying her lies and I can't talk to her. My wife has only been diagnosed as Bi-polar, but I spoke with a Doctor from the Mayo clinic today that said based on what they heard she is a clear case for borderline. After I went through the first part of the "Stop walking on eggshells" workbook my wife was about a 27 and a 20 is considered borderline.

Why do you think your dad dying affect her like this?

She is now in touch with her biological family? Was she adopted as a child? Does she have strong feelings of abandonment?  That sounds like a lot could be going on inside of her in terms of identity and making sense of her life.

I need help and I don't know what to do. I feel like if I could just convince her to get DBT things could get better. I'm doing the best I can to be strong and show her I'm changing, but I'm afraid it is going too slowly and we will be divorced before I can win her back. I'm not even entirely sure how to win her back either if she barely talks to me and won't spend much time with me. Please help me, all advice is appreciated.

Does she do any therapy? Recognize she has BPD or other mental health issues and want to work on them?

Are you spending any time together? How do divorces work where you live? How fast are they?

Again, sorry for your pain. I can imagine how hard it must be to feel like you are losing someone you love! 

take care, pearl.

[sadandlonely]

I am just trying to be friends at this point and not really mention anything about the marriage or relationship. She quickly goes from sad to angry though and it makes things difficult.

She always says that my dad dying was really hard for her. She has even said to me that if I die I will leave her so she wants to leave me first. We have also been talking about my mom and how hard it is for her and I've told her she will be fine because she has kids. My wife responded with "what will happen to me when you leave me". This seems like classic borderline thoughts to me.

She was adopted basically a few hours after she was born.  She does have strong feelings and fears of abandonment. She even texted me in June with a list of all the symptoms of borderline and agreed that she had it. The next day she saw her therapist and that is when she first put divorce out there. She is seeing a therapist but she claims she is the healthiest she has ever been. I'm worried her therapist doesn't understand the situation because whenever things are good with my wife she quickly turns off after seeing her therapist. I'm convinced she is telling her therapist lies and feeling empowered by her therapist telling her I'm a bad guy.

We are spending a little time together. There is little discussion via text or phone that doesn't involve selling the house, but we have been spending about an hour together about once a week. I've never been divorced before, the best I know is that you file paperwork and have a 90 day waiting period after that.

Thanks for responding and the hugs, I feel very alone and depressed right now and its hard to focus on anything else.

[pearlsw]

Thanks for responding and the hugs, I feel very alone and depressed right now and its hard to focus on anything else.

Hi again sadandlonely,

Then here I am again with more hugs:     

I want to set aside the relationship stuff for a bit and just talk about you. What kinds of things could you do today, tomorrow, and next week to help you feel less alone and depressed? Are you doing any self-care? What would put a smile on your face today?

It might sound silly but at my lowest points I watch comedy videos on YouTube or find inspirational talks. I think it is just good to laugh and have good input into our brains when we are feeling low.

Any ideas?

wishing you some good thoughts and smiles, pearl.

[sadandlonely]

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't know what self-care means. I can't stop thinking about the relationship and stop the "what if" games. I also keep wondering if I should contact her or not and what I should say. I don't know what will make me happy or get me through the day.

I've gone for a walk, done some laundry, and tried to play a video game, but I'm still stuck. I can't slow my mind down.

[pearlsw]

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't know what self-care means. I can't stop thinking about the relationship and stop the "what if" games. I also keep wondering if I should contact her or not and what I should say. I don't know what will make me happy or get me through the day.

I've gone for a walk, done some laundry, and tried to play a video game, but I'm still stuck. I can't slow my mind down.

Hey sadandlonely!

No worries! I think self-care is just a fancy way of saying doing things that make you feel happy, relaxed, inspired, better, ya know? So, it can be a lot of things! 

What are your hobbies and interests? Who in your life haven't you seen lately? What makes you feel good? What makes you laugh?

When I can't slow my mind down I try to put other harmless thoughts in there. If your mind is in worry mode, let it worry about the increasing amount of plastic in the ocean for example, lots of videos on that! Okay, so that is pretty bad! But you can think of movie or t.v. characters and worry about their not real problems. You can't avoid pain, but sometimes it's nice to lessen it and get a break!

take care, pearl.

[sadandlonely]

Hey Pearl,

I try to find comedy shows or funny movies since that usually helps. I've had a hard time enjoying any of it though. Sometimes I get so stuck in my head that nothing helps. I'm feeling a little better today but it really comes and goes.

I'm just so focused on trying to find ways to get my wife back but I know that isn't what I should be doing. I do want her back though.

[pearlsw]

Hey Pearl,

I try to find comedy shows or funny movies since that usually helps. I've had a hard time enjoying any of it though. Sometimes I get so stuck in my head that nothing helps. I'm feeling a little better today but it really comes and goes.

I'm just so focused on trying to find ways to get my wife back but I know that isn't what I should be doing. I do want her back though.

Hi sadandlonely,

Well, nice! We both like some comedy to keep our spirits up! Yes, sometimes we can't avoid being down. It happens. Are you clinically depressed? Did you get medication?

Why do you think your being hospitalized for suicidal thoughts was a mistake? It upset or affected your wife somehow? Is there more to this?

How close are you with others? Do you have people to spend time with besides your wife? Do you work? Is that a way you also have a social outlet?

Do you do any form of exercise?

When will you next see your wife?

Sorry to pepper you with questions! 

warmly, pearl.

[sadandlonely]

Pearl,

My therapist said I am "severely depressed" and I am on an anti-depressant. The medication helps a little but not much, my doctor believes that is because my depression is situational and not so much chemical.

The hospitalization was a mistake because I don't believe I was really a danger. Because I asked for Valium they put on my papers that they thought I was a drug abuser. I promise I'm not and never have been. It did seem to freak my wife out and given the issues of borderline I can see her worries of abandonment or that I'm not strong enough becoming more real for her.

I have a few friends and a good family but I've always played the role of a therapist that had his stuff together. This is an odd position for me and those around me so I've mostly avoided them. I also tend to isolate naturally when I need to deal with things. I'm introverted and prefer time alone to think and process. Sometimes I need to vent and get other opinions though, which is why I came here. I do work and I have a social outlet and support there. My biggest issue is running thoughts and issues over and over in my head. This makes me less productive at work most days.

I do go to the gym around 3 times a week. Oddly enough it seems to make me more tired and depressed and doesn't really give me that positive boost everyone talks about.

I don't know when I will see my wife again, perhaps not until signing papers to sell our house. It is very hit and miss and all over the board right now. Everyone keeps telling me to avoid reaching out to her and to just live my life, so I'm trying that.

No worries about the questions. Hopefully, it gives you some insight and you have advice on what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for responding. It feels good to have someone talking to me. Things can get lonely sometimes.

[pearlsw]

Pearl,
No worries about the questions. Hopefully, it gives you some insight and you have advice on what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for responding. It feels good to have someone talking to me. Things can get lonely sometimes.

Awwwww! Well, I'm a veteran of more breakups than I care to remember so I definitely don't want ya weathering this alone if this break up fully takes.  

Well, it sounds like you are actually doing a lot of the right things! The hardest part is getting ahold of your thoughts. It's okay! I'd probably allow myself certain times of the day to think about it, and talk it over with friends, that is a necessary step. No need to rush it. And I'd probably push myself as best I could not to think about it other times to stay productive and moving forward. No worries, we'll be here to keep talking long after others may not want to talk about it so much!  

How are you feeling now? Anything good happen today? (even a tiny good thing!)

warmly, pearl.

[sadandlonely]

I'm holding up ok, but I just really wish I knew what to do. She has barely talked to me in 2 weeks and I really miss her. I still love her even though my therapist tells me to just move on. It really hurts especially when she is saying bad things about me to other people and she has really turned me "black".

[pearlsw]

I'm holding up ok, but I just really wish I knew what to do. She has barely talked to me in 2 weeks and I really miss her. I still love her even though my therapist tells me to just move on. It really hurts especially when she is saying bad things about me to other people and she has really turned me "black".

Hi sadandlonely,

Is the minimal contact you are having related to the potential divorce? Is she aware you do not want this?

Have you had any time with friends since you last wrote?

Really? Your therapist said this? Why do you think that is?

warmly, pearl.

[sadandlonely]

The minimal contact has been about our house we are trying to sell. She is VERY aware I don't want a divorce, but she tells me she doesn't love me and wants to move on. She also keeps saying it will be better for me or I will be happier. Which I keep saying that isn't the case but she insists.

I have been with friends and family but that is only limited. They can't fix or replace the love I have for my wife. I just really miss her.

My therapist has heard about some of the cheating and lies and believes I am better off without her. Just because she is sick right now, we had many great years together and I believe we can have many more. Just because she has BPD doesn't mean she isn't worthy of love and relationships.

[pearlsw]

The minimal contact has been about our house we are trying to sell. She is VERY aware I don't want a divorce, but she tells me she doesn't love me and wants to move on. She also keeps saying it will be better for me or I will be happier. Which I keep saying that isn't the case but she insists.

I have been with friends and family but that is only limited. They can't fix or replace the love I have for my wife. I just really miss her.

My therapist has heard about some of the cheating and lies and believes I am better off without her. Just because she is sick right now, we had many great years together and I believe we can have many more. Just because she has BPD doesn't mean she isn't worthy of love and relationships.

Hi sadandlonely,

Oh yes, I understand. I feel like I have been grieving this relationship nearly as long as it has existed. It is indeed painful to not be able to connect to someone we love, and what's worse to have it be related to an illness.

What are you doing these days to keep your spirits up if possible?

Please feel free to talk over how you are feeling at any time! 

warmly, pearl.

[sadandlonely]

Pearlsw,

You seem to be the only one responding to me, hopefully I didn't break some protocol to anger others.

I'm hiking, hitting the gym, spending time with friends and family, trying to focus more on work. I'm doing whatever I can but it is really hard for me. My biggest problem is that I really don't understand why she is so set on leaving me. She hasn't given me any good answers and the answers I get contradict each other. The crazy making is really getting to me and not knowing what is really going on can send my brain into a loop for far too long. It is getting better and I can focus on other things now and again, but I still get stuck in that loop and miss her terribly.

[pearlsw]

Pearlsw,

You seem to be the only one responding to me, hopefully I didn't break some protocol to anger others.
 It is getting better and I can focus on other things now and again, but I still get stuck in that loop and miss her terribly.

Hi sadandlonely,

Oh no, you didn't anything wrong! It can take time for people to join in on threads sometimes. I think when some people see a lot of replies they think it is a lot to read and don't open it!  Or sometimes people don't post because they are afraid to say the wrong thing! I felt that way early on, and still do sometimes, but mostly I just say what I think!

I know it can be hard to make sense of breakups! Especially when they don't really give you a reason, or it is sudden, or it just makes no sense. Our "non" brains long for logic and reason and wanting answers and a chance to fix things.  I know, I know! It's so painful!

I noticed my brain was in a worry loop the other day so I put something silly in there to worry about! It is so silly to say what it was! But I guess I will. I got to visit a castle and the story of the owner of the castle, how he died, was pretty involved, an unsolved mystery really! So, I let myself ruminate on that for a bit... .really mull it over. Sometimes, knowing our brain can get into that mode it can help to set something harmless in there and let that wheel spin! At least I do! It doesn't happen often, but it's a little trick I made up as a kid and it is my do-it- yourself form of cognitive therapy in a way!

Are you still trying to contact her aside from the divorce talk? Or is it all divorce talk?

wishing you peace and calm, pearl.  

So, no worries! Okay?  

[Enabler]

My biggest problem is that I really don't understand why she is so set on leaving me. She hasn't given me any good answers and the answers I get contradict each other. The crazy making is really getting to me and not knowing what is really going on can send my brain into a loop for far too long.

Hey Sadandlonely,

I'm just catching up here, sounds like you've had a rotten time of things. I can totally empathise around the fact that you don't want a D and feel that letting her know is showing her your feelings and  a good thing... .I mean everyone wants to be wanted and everyone wants to know the door is open to come back... .don't they? It's complicated, she needs to see you as her pillar of strength, her rock, with a shade of indifference. At the moment she possible doesn't see you this way. You might even consider parking any conversations about the relationship. Every time you do is triggers her need for distance and sparks off the NEED for a D. What she says re the D and what her actions are might not tally. Look at the actions for genuine intent, acknowledge her words but look for actions.

Re the D, I have made the choice that I don't want the D and don't think it's the right thing for my family. I accept that she is a grown adult free to make her own choices and trying to keep her in the marriage is futile... .BUT... .this doesn't mean I have to enabler her by being proactive with the process. I don'#t obstruct but I don't assist. Who put the house on the market and pushed that over the line?

Take some deep breaths stud, you're not going to die, this hurts like hell and is incredibly emotionally uncomfortable but you will rise like a phoenix from the ashes. The worst has happened, she's called a divorce... .what more can happen?

Enabler

[BeagleGirl]

sadandlonely,

I'm also catching up on your story and wanted to add my  .

I can very much relate to the seemingly endless mental loops and inability to focus on anything else.  I chose the user name BeagleGirl because I have been told (and admit) that I share a lot of characteristics with that breed.  One of the things about beagles is that they will pursue a scent to the point of bleeding paws and literally drop from exhaustion but with their noses still pointed in the direction of the scent.  I feel like my mind does that. 

I also relate to being the family/friend "therapist" who has everything together and the temptation to isolate from them when I don't feel like I can be what they expect me to be.  I've been fighting against that temptation and I feel like it's made a lot of difference in how well I am able to cope.  I would encourage you to try booking some time with friends and family.  You might want to have the group of people you can talk to about what is going on and the group you don't feel the need/want to talk to about what's going on.  The first group can support you and walk with you in the hard times.  The second group can provide distraction and a break from the chaos in your life.  You could probably benefit from some time with both groups.

As far as things that help slow/refocus your mental energy - I like Pearlsw's idea of finding an unrelated mental problem to focus on; something that you are not emotionally invested in.  I also like seeking out humor.  I spent a week learning just about every "x walked into a bar" joke I could find.  Running is my go to activity.  I tend to feel cooped up in a gym, so I run outside.  Even though running still leaves lots of space for rumination, I find that my thoughts tend to slow and become more orderly as I find my pace.  When I want to take a break from thinking about my problems, I put on a podcast rather than music while I run.

Do you think that it might help to write out the questions that you can't seem to get answers for?  Sometimes putting them on paper (or a screen) can free up the space in your brain.  It can also be a tool for limiting your rumination time.  You can say "I won't think about these questions unless I'm staring at the piece of paper they are written on". 

There's my practical advice.  On a more fundamental level, I want you to know that the pain you are feeling is real and normal and it really sucks.  There are some things you can do to lessen/work through it, but sometimes you just have to sit with it.  Cry when you need to.  Yell when you need to.  Curl up in a ball and just breathe when you need to.  Try to remember that it won't always hurt like this, and rushing through or running away from the pain can sometimes put you at risk for relapses down the line.  It's great to have those people in your life that can help keep you from drowning in the pain and grief but won't try to pull you out of it.  I found a DivorceCare group helpful for that.  There are also groups for people dealing with grief.  And of course there is bpdfamily.  I'm glad you found this community.

BeagleGirl 
 

[pearlsw]

Hi sadandlonely,

I saw this Dealing with Ruminations and wanted to see if I could ask you to take a look, if interested?

If you do please let us know what you think! 

take care, pearl.