Setting boundaries for elderly mom and sister. How do you cope?

[Snoopy737]

Practical advice needed for upcoming Christmas

Hi bpdfamily members.

You have helped me so much a year ago, with my undiagnosed BPD sister. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and after my father died, I now can see how my mother is behaving on herself (and I couldn't really see that before, because my parents supported each other very much in disagreements in the family).

Sadly my sister cut the contact to me this time, but what she didn't know was that this time, I worked with several doctors and therapist through the hospital, while trying to get a good relationship with her after last no-contact.

Now sister's gone no contact, and the doctors and therapists backed me up and said I did everything I could do and even more that you could ask for a human beeing, and that I now had to take care of myself and my own future, because they could see it broke me completely down with anxiety and depression, when I thought I supported sister and thought I had build up a good relationship with her, and she then suddenly was splitting and would say really cruel things to me.

This time, I have really listened to the doctors, and the last six month I've been active creating new contacts, I am looking for a new job and I've started in a swimming club getting into shape and learned that people I meet - contrary to my sister -  are really nice to me, and we can swim, smile, have fun, without any problems or people suddenly splitting. A true relief.

But after my dad has gone, I only have my elderly mother, and now I can really see her mood swings too (though she only thinks she's strong).

Yeaterday when I helped her with her garden, I again saw her idelizing. She was so greatful and thought I had done really weeding between the stones on the terrace, mowing the lawns and trimming some hedges. And that's great. But today I got a text, that she want to hire a man to trim the cotoneaster. And we agreed, that I should trim it next time.

It recal that the only hard job yesterday was trimming only 1 meter of that cotoneaster. After googling it, I now can see that I probably shouldn't have done it with the electric hedge trimmer, but with a rose scissors. My bad. But the point isn't that she now want a gardener to trim it instead, but that she uses an excuse in her text, that 'Oh, hedges was the gardeners job, she just remembered, so I should not trim it next week'. Why is it always 'Oh, that soo beautiful' or 'You can't do it!' (actually the idealizing is just as annoying as the critique)

That doesn't sound that bad, and I'm a grown up man, he he, but it's because I recognize the pattern, when I was a kind. My parents were totally hysterical with the hedges in our garden, if some kids played softball on our street - and they often did -  both mom and dad got furious, absolutely mad and raging if the kids knocked on our door asking permission to get the ball they accidently shot into our hedge. It happened so many times, and it was hard to be friends with the other kids, when my parents overreacted and yelled at the other kids for getting their lost ball.

It just one of those memories I can never let go of. And then I get really annoyed that hedges or material stuff also seemed to be more important than human beings. And still is. I also remember my mother could get absolutely furious, if my dad trimmed too much (in her view) of a hedge or a tree, while she was inside the house). The mood could get really bad for days. And now, I'm like. What happened? It was only a plant. It would grow bigger again. Yeeez.
 
So what am I asking for help to, this time. Well, you see, I now recognise my mom's always shifting moods and opinions - and that's new and a good thing. And I also can see - after the long support from docs and therapist helping me with my sister - that I have pleased both my sister and mother A LOT!  (Yeah, howcome I was blind for soo long, it's so obvious, right) ;)

And as a person, I'm not really into debates about small things like hedges or other material stuff, so I have just done anything to make my parents glad. Problem is, you can't make a person happy, if that person is constantly chaning mind or thinks black or white. And that's where my problem lies now.

So I really need to hear how you guys deal with that kind of problems in your families.

I mean, I will not discuss that silly cotoneaster, and it's fine by me, if she want's a real gardener to trim it. But I would really learn how not to get annoyed when that happens. Also, I'm a bit unsecure/uneasy about what to text back. Maybe it's just 'Fine, okay, mom (happy smiley)'. That would end it quickly. But I'm like, is it wrong to say 'Okay fine!', when I'm really annoyed that she couldn't just tell me? On the other side, you can't learn an old dog to sit. And she's over 80. Why would we waste time discussing something that also isn't of importance to me, I mean the cotoneaster isn't important to me.


I can say, I don't want to discuss the cotoneaster, because she can easily find another subject where she behaves the same. E.g. like her friend holding a big party, and the friend knows I'm good at baking, so she asked if I could bake cakes for her party, instead of receiving a present. I realized it would maybe be a bit expensive in ingredients, but why not. My mom have known this friend for 50 years. I wouldn't go in small shoes and said, yes! And then when I was finished baking and my mother got to know the price for the ingredients, she made a BIG problem out of it. It was too much money to spend on that friend and that party, and I was really like, I should never have told you. Mom would tell the friend how much the ingredients costed, and I said, that I would never myself tell someone how much their present was worth. It's absurd in my world. My mom insisted. And instead of taking the fight, because I thought it was really unacceptable. But for the first time I did the contrary, I raged a bit at home and wrote 'Well, do what you have to do, it's your friend, not mine, I was only trying to help out'.

It's those kind of really small and pathetic problems made GIGANTIC. And I hate it.

And now Christmas is soon coming. I really like Christmas, I want a tree, wanna decorate and cook, and I like to hear the carols. But my mom says she can't listen to all the Christmas music and she don't want a christmas tree, because it reminds me of her husband, my dad, who died. Now I'm like, I really want it to be a merry Christmas for her too, and again, well, I don't HAVE TO hear carols and I'm not dying if we don't have a tree. But again, hey, it's pain always pleasing her, and then she actually changes her mind a week later, and then I can change plans again. It's the never ending story.

So how do you act, when family members does these things to you? I could be really interesting hearing, because I need a new approach.

The problem with the cake, wasn't actually my problem any longer, when I said 'Do what you have to do', but I spend too much time thinking about it before I finally texted 'Do what you have to do'.
Is is “just” something you have to reherse? Can you recognise those problems sooner and sooner, and then get out of them faster than before.
I mean, I know I can't change my mom, and discussions with her are endless where I have to listen to 'Can't you understand, how I'm feeling' (Yeah, pretty needy, right), and I really don't wanna waste time of that, been there, done that for too long.

I think I just wan't to get out of those problems as fast as possible, before they annoy me. Have you also struggled with that? Have you learned anything? Are you better at getting out now?

Thanks in advance!

All best, Snoopy

[zachira]

You are asking us how to do we cope with your BPD family members. You are specifically looking for ways to better cope with your sister with BPD and your elderly mother. For now, your sister is no contact with you, though you do not know if she will as some point resume contact with you. Your mother has mood swings and you do not know how she will respond. I have a mother and sister who both have BPD and NPD. I have learned that I can only control how I respond, and will never be able to predict when they will be acting badly or be somehow easier to deal with for shorter periods of time. I find it key to take out 30-60 minutes nearly every day to meditate and notice my feelings. That way no feeling ever gets to the point that I am overwhelmed. I also have been in therapy for the past seven years as there are regular family crisis, and I need someone to listen at length to all that is going on, how it affects me, and to help me to figure out the best way to go forward. For the past year, I have been posting regularly on this Board, and I have found lots of caring support from members who understand what it is like to have to continually deal with family members with BPD. We are here to listen and support you. Keep us posted on how you are doing and let us know how we can best support you. You are not alone, though it may seem like it at times.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Snoopy737,

It is definitely hard having a pwBPD in our lives. I think it's very normal that you have to think for some time before you respond and send a text to your mom.

Also, I'm a bit unsecure/uneasy about what to text back. Maybe it's just 'Fine, okay, mom (happy smiley)'. That would end it quickly. But I'm like, is it wrong to say 'Okay fine!', when I'm really annoyed that she couldn't just tell me?  

Us adult kids have learned to be very very careful what we say and how we say it to our pwBPD. To say it wrongly might set them off. To share our true feelings of irritation or anger and hurt would also set them off. It's a no win situation unfortunately. The way to be free from what you think she will say and how she will respond comes as you begin to a knowledge you, your feelings, and your value. That takes time, and as you said, you are beginning to be more aware of who she is. That's a wonderful place to be as your awareness increases.  

What would it look like if you could speak freely to one of your friends, for example, if they said something about not needing you to trim the plants? It's safe to practice here, so give it a try.

Wools

[Notwendy]

Snoopy, I have learned over the years that sometimes my mother is pleased with the things I do for her and sometimes she is not, but it has more to do about her than about me. My own way of coping is to not let her moods define me or my intent. I have made or brought cakes and she is either pleased or she throws them out. If I cooked something nice, she might complain about the mess in the kitchen. If she is picky about something- I don't touch that. One thing she is super picky about is her possessions- I don't touch them at all - no borrowing her car, don't use something she is super picky about. It distresses her. It seems your mother has some attachment to her hedges. If she wants someone else to trim them- let her do it her way.

I do nice things for her when I can according to my own values. I can send a gift that I think is nice- and if she likes it, great, and if she doesn't, then that doesn't change the intent of my gift. I also learned that trying to please her may not work- so now, I don't do that. This doesn't mean I don't do something nice- it means that her reaction doesn't change my nice action.

Sometimes though, we help people too much. We may jump in and do things for them that they can do for themselves or they prefer to choose how to do it. Your mother may prefer a professional hedge trimmer, or baker- well that is her choice. It isn't about you.

For Christmas- if she is just recently widowed- Christmas is not going to be easy. If these are her wishes, and you live in her home- then respect them. She may change her mind, or she may complain you didn't do any decorations or tree afterwards, and there is still time for her to change her mind. However, if it is in her house, then she does determine what decorations are there. While decorations and music is nice to have, they don't define how someone celebrates Christmas. You might consider donating that money to a charity that gives gifts to people who can't afford to have them at Christmas, or doing some volunteer work- a soup kitchen may be serving Christmas dinner- and they will have a tree and carols playing. You could have a small tree in your room and play music on your phone with headphones. Let your mother do it her way- purchase a gift for her and have a special meal at home- if she eats it, fine, if not, you did what you could do.

[Learning2Thrive]

Practical advice needed for upcoming Christmas
... .
So I really need to hear how you guys deal with that kind of problems in your families.
... .
Is is “just” something you have to reherse? Can you recognise those problems sooner and sooner, and then get out of them faster than before.

Hi Snoopy,

Yes, I have to practice using the tools a LOT. As I practice, it does become easier... .but it’s always good to practice the tools here. They help in all sorts of situations, not just with our person with BPD.

I mean, I know I can't change my mom, and discussions with her are endless where I have to listen to 'Can't you understand, how I'm feeling' (Yeah, pretty needy, right), and I really don't wanna waste time of that, been there, done that for too long.

It’s great that you have accepted that you cannot change your mom. All any of us can control or change is ourselves and how we respond behave and respond.

I think I just wan't to get out of those problems as fast as possible, before they annoy me. Have you also struggled with that? Have you learned anything? Are you better at getting out now?

That’s the tough part... .there really aren’t any short cuts because we are all unique and our loved one(s) with BPD are also unique. There’s no one size fits all solution so each of us has to do our own work.

That said, we can and do help each other here. We offer support, encouragement, constructive opinions on problem solving, etc.

Have you looked over our tools yet? You can find the link in the big green bar near the top of this page.

Here’s a direct link to mindfulness and wisemind—one of my current favorites:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

How are you doing today?

Sending you gentle hugs and smiles,
L2T

[Snoopy737]

Thank you, Zachira

Yup, I have been going to therapy, too. And for a while. But I can't afford more hours at the moment. Also, I really want to cope myself in the long run, so I thought it would be an idea to post it here - and get help from you.

Meditation, I really can't get it to work - I have tried it several times, but I have noticed that when I ruminate about it. It often helps going away from the work at my computer and instead biking down to our pool in the city for a swim. Freestyle still is hard to me, so I have to concentrate so much, that I can't think of anything else. ;) And afterwards, I shower and change to really nice, casual sports clothes and go sit at the almost empty seats for spectators. The sound of the water splashing and just looking at each swimmer. How some uses good techniques and some just swim without any, can in an extraordinary way calm me down. And then the problems doesn't feel as hard anymore. It's the change of scene that helps. Sometimes I also do a few yoga poses on the top floor of the spectators rows and that works as well.

It's true that when I feel my hard feelings (and I actually try anything to procrastinate), I end up crying, but feeling better afterwards. The pain-feeling in the brain disappears. So, it surely helps feeling the hard feelings too, like you say.

Thank you again for your support.

All best, Snoopy

[Snoopy737]

Hello Woolspinner2000

Thank you so much for your reply.

I read it a couple of says ago and chose to think a bit about it. It resulted in talking about my frustration with my nurse (she's there for exactly that and thinks say it's totally O.K) instead of writing a text to my mum.

I really didn't know what I would say to my mom, because those hedges has annoyed my since my early childhood. But I was kind of right, my mother actually prompted for an answer to her text. (I had hoped she just would forget it  ;) )

I decided to write something like "Oh yes, I have got that text. You ask that you would rather have a gardener to trim that cotoneaster. That's just the way we do it then" and I also answered something more neutral about a TV program. She didn't reply back, so ... .IDK.   I guess I decided to get better to let it go, because when I think of my sister, which is 10 times my mother, I recall that sis will never let a discussion end without fighting to the bitter end. Often with tears. So I just took 5 minutes figuring out, why it annoyed me. And it was the fact that if I don't do anything totally perfect after my moms mind, I kind of get sacked for the job in the future. And me myself, I'm into giving people constructive critique in a nice way, so ... .But that hard thing for me is just to let it go.

And I did. But I had to talk to my nurse about it for 10 minutes though. ;) But you're right. It's a no-win-situation. Because I would never get mom (and especially not sister) to understand my feelings about it, because their own feelings are so intense.

You know, sometimes we need a role model, and at the time, I'm relaxing watching a lot of police-videos on Youtube. It's video when officers has first respond and has to figure out what's going on. I was so impressed how those officers was calm all the time, even though people they met swore at them, kicked and even shot at them. It was very clear they were trained to handle folks with a bad temper. Not just ignoring what was said, but actually analyzing it and finding out, what would be the best to say to get them to chill down.

I know it's pretty peculiar thinking like that, when it comes to my family, but it actually works. I just imagine the uniform and stear clear of the conflict, because ... .yeah, why, I guess because I don't wanna spend time on it and also because it gets me in a bad mood. But to be honest, I have to repete this reaction a lot of times, because it's still very new to me.

At the end, you ask me, what I would've said to normal friends, if they'd ask me not to trim their plants. Well, then I would just have spoken from my heart, I think. Something like 'Oh, do you ask me not to trim the plants, because I was a little rough with the first 1 meter of cotoneaster? Because, I have to admit, the hedge trimmer couldn't get through it. I now realize after surfing Google, that I should only have trimmed it with a rose scissors." And if it were my normal friends, they would tell me what it was all about. E.g. when I looked after their house when they were on summer vacation, they ask if I had been in their freezer, and I said "Yes, I took one of your ice creams after mowing the lawns." And they said "That's all right, but there is this little thing with the fridge door, that it doesn't close proporly, so the door has acutally been open for 10 days, we could see." And then I was glad that they told me, instead of never letting my look after their house again, and I of course offered to take it on my insurance if the food was damaged or the freezer broke down in the near future. It never did, and I was actually glad that they had told me the truth.

But I just have to accept that way isn't possible with my mother. It isn't worth it taking days or even weeks discussing it, when I know she'll only stop, when I say "Oh, O.K. mom, I understand your feelings". And I'm really tired of "understanding her feelings" because the same never goes my way.

Thanks again, All best, Snoopy

[Snoopy737]

Hi NotWendy

Thanks for the reply.

Your mom sounds exactly like mine. ;) I can't figure out either, why something nice I do for her, is accepted with gratitude and other things are recepted with a displeased face. And I guess, you're right. Normally, it's a good thing to find out why you misunderstand others, but trying to understand someone that changes her mind every day, it's not really worth the time and energy. I will try to say to myself 'It was a nice thing to do. She didn't see it. Well, all right, that shouldn't stop me from doing nice things to others in the future. I like me."

Actually, it's a pretty good advice not toucing anything she is picky about. And there is a lot of other things in that garden that needs attention, that I can do, so it isn't a real problem for me in that way. And it ended with me complaining a bit to my contact nurse, and that was all right, and the I texted my mom that it was of course okay, that she wanted the gardener to trim the hedges in the future. And I just ended it there.

I actually can feel a tiny reward already, because I didn't have to go into a long discussion with her. One of the problem is just, that after my dad is gone, she want's my opinion on everything before she decides. But she kind of has already decided even before she asks me ;)

Thank you, again. All best Snoopy

[Snoopy737]

Hello L2T, it's really nice of you to reply. I really appreciate it!

Practise: O.K., then. I'll just keep it up. ;) And yeah, we can only change ourselves. It just took me 5-7 years to see, that my sister really don't wanna change. I mean, she always used to write how terrible she felt and that she thought she was seriously ill, but when I threw all the cards on the table and offered to help her go to hospitals and so on, I just got a mad answer, that I shouldn't control her, and why I thought she couldn't cope with it (well, maybe she texted and wrote e-mails about, how she couldn't feel her legs at night in the bed, and she was so dizzy she couldn't get home from the mall and had to lie in a public toilet stall for hours in that mall, before she could come home. But I guess she didn't think it was a problem.) And in the end of that e-mail, I got a lecture about how my life sucked, and that I was absolutely no role model, because I was so far out, almost loosing it. (thank you, sis).

Yeah, thanks I can see there isn't any solutions that fits all. Maybe I guess, I just thought of, if you became as frustrated that I am, and how you approached someone who's never satisfied.

I'm 48, and I actually kind of embarrassed that I unsecure about how to celebrate Christmas with my mother. But I talked it over with my contact nurse friday, and I had an idea that said: I will take forever to satisfy my mom. I did everything last year and she only thought of getting home from the minute she came in the door. Now I have decided to invite my mother for Christmas in a formal snailmail letter. And I'm going to decorate and have a tree, just like I would do, if I had a wife and kids, but yet I don't. And the my mom can accept or decline.

Thanks again, I'm pretty O.K. again, and I have checked some of the tools here, in particual the setting boundaries-article.

All best, Snoopy

[Learning2Thrive]

Snoopy wrote:

I'm 48, and I actually kind of embarrassed that I unsecure about how to celebrate Christmas with my mother. But I talked it over with my contact nurse friday, and I had an idea that said: I will take forever to satisfy my mom. I did everything last year and she only thought of getting home from the minute she came in the door. Now I have decided to invite my mother for Christmas in a formal snailmail letter. And I'm going to decorate and have a tree, just like I would do, if I had a wife and kids, but yet I don't. And the my mom can accept or decline.

Snoopy, please don’t feel embarrassed. I’m 53. Christmas is always troublesome for me.

I think your plan to celebrate Christmas the way YOU WANT is a great idea. It’s your life. You should celebrate the way you desire. That’s not selfish. That’s living an authentic life. You’re absolutely correct. Your mom can accept or decline. Just remember, whatever she decides, her decision is about HER and not you. No matter what she says.

 

L2T

[Notwendy]

Holidays and special events can be difficult. I think it is because we have an idea of how we want it to be and sometimes it isn't that way. Also the things that can be meaningful for us may not be the same for someone else. I think it is a good idea to invite your mother to your Christmas. Keep in mind, just like any invitation, she has the choice to say yes or no. You might also want to invite other people- any friends or anyone else you would like to have over. You can do it your way. If you live at home though, you would need to collaborate with the other people there ( ie your mom).

If she says absolutely not, remember there are celebrations at Christmas through churches and other groups, and even soup kitchens ( you can volunteer) where you can have a nice celebration.