Do BPD men just need their mothers?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm just going to throw this out there. It's come from years of observation of a male BPD.

His needs - no matter how disguised or intelligently expressed - seem to come down to an unconscious but overwhelming longing for the unconditional love of a mother.

These longings in adult life get all mixed up with relationships, sexual encounters, friendships - and also various addictions and compulsions. But no matter how they are perceived in adulthood, at base they appear to be a futile yearning for the kind of love only a mother can give (also a father, but mothers are closer, more bonded, and more nurturing to a baby.)

The fear of abandonment seems to be the kind of distress a baby experiences when its mother cannot be found. The deep desire for 'love' and sex seems to be a desire for physical comfort, affirmation, bonding, cuddling, warmth and all that a baby receives from a good mother - including food.

Only a mother can and will give her all without asking for a relationship in return. Only she will give everything without asking for a return.

Only she can be present at every moment to support, provide, protect without regard to herself. She IS his life. When she is happy, so is he. When she is sad, he's confused, fearful that he's done something wrong, but has no clue what to do about it.

He accompanies her everywhere, sharing her presence and her life as if it's his own. If anyone intrudes on that exclusive relationship he is enraged and jealous, afraid of losing his lifeline to her existence.

A BPD is completely aware of his own needs (as a baby) and feels a sense of grievance if they are not immediately met in full, but has little to NO awareness of the cost to others. Like a baby and his mother, he has absolutely NO understanding of his mother's life. She might be traumatised, sad, lonely, desperate - he neither knows nor cares. He certainly will never consider his own part in her condition.

I could go on. But this is probably enough. Is there truth in what I've said?

[New+Scared]

I'm just going to throw this out there. It's come from years of observation of a male BPD.

His needs - no matter how disguised or intelligently expressed - seem to come down to an unconscious but overwhelming longing for the unconditional love of a mother.

These longings in adult life get all mixed up with relationships, sexual encounters, friendships - and also various addictions and compulsions. But no matter how they are perceived in adulthood, at base they appear to be a futile yearning for the kind of love only a mother can give (also a father, but mothers are closer, more bonded, and more nurturing to a baby.)

The fear of abandonment seems to be the kind of distress a baby experiences when its mother cannot be found. The deep desire for 'love' and sex seems to be a desire for physical comfort, affirmation, bonding, cuddling, warmth and all that a baby receives from a good mother - including food.

Only a mother can and will give her all without asking for a relationship in return. Only she will give everything without asking for a return.

Only she can be present at every moment to support, provide, protect without regard to herself. She IS his life. When she is happy, so is he. When she is sad, he's confused, fearful that he's done something wrong, but has no clue what to do about it.

He accompanies her everywhere, sharing her presence and her life as if it's his own. If anyone intrudes on that exclusive relationship he is enraged and jealous, afraid of losing his lifeline to her existence.

A BPD is completely aware of his own needs (as a baby) and feels a sense of grievance if they are not immediately met in full, but has little to NO awareness of the cost to others. Like a baby and his mother, he has absolutely NO understanding of his mother's life. She might be traumatised, sad, lonely, desperate - he neither knows nor cares. He certainly will never consider his own part in her condition.

I could go on. But this is probably enough. Is there truth in what I've said?

[zachira]

Yes, there is  a lot of truth in what you have said. In many cultures the love of a man's life is his mother, and the men from these cultures talk endlessly about how they love their mothers, and let their partner know that mommy comes first. It is common in the English speaking world for men to  be enmeshed with their mothers when the mother grooves the boy from early childhood as a substitute for her husband. The causes for BPD are mixed, some genetic and some environmental. I would say that the more a man is enmeshed with his mother, the more likely he could have BPD, provided the circumstances, environment, and perhaps genetics support the development of a personality disorder like BPD.

[Notwendy]

I think that some pwBPD tendencies come from dysfunctional homes.

Only a mother can and will give her all without asking for a relationship in return. Only she will give everything without asking for a return.



This to me actually describes either a co-dependent mother or a mother who didn't provide unconditional love. Unconditional love is loving the child - the core of the child, for who she or he is. It doesn't mean giving everything without having any expectations.

Truly loving a child is having age appropriate expectations. It is providing what a child needs but not necessarily everything a child wants. It is allowing the child space to feel frustrated and angry, even at them sometimes and then allowing the child to learn to self soothe. It involves allowing the child to learn from some natural consequences while protecting them from potentially harmful ones. Don't allow a child to wander into a busy street ( heaven forbid). Do allow the child to face the teacher if he or she doesn't do their homework. Unconditional love doesn't depend on a teen ager behaving, but getting the keys to the car does.

IMHO, dysfunction can come from either an overindulgent parent or a neglectful one ( and a parent can also be both in some ways). It can also happen with two wonderful parents due to genetics or some other cause. PwBPD's have difficulty learning to self soothe, and also so do their partners. Many of us also came from homes where there was dysfunction. I have a BPD mom but I tended towards co-dependency.

Our roles are not to be the indulgent parent to a BPD partner, and also allow them to learn to self soothe and not fix their feelings for them. However, to do this, we need to also learn to self soothe our own discomfort when we do ( and also keep ourselves safe if they are potentially abusive).

[AskingWhy]

My uBPD/uNPD H has the "second-best syndrome" found in BPD males.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-almost-effect/201406/male-borderline-personality-disorder-being-second-best

My H and his younger B were born only 1 1/2 years apart.  That means while H was only 18 months old, his B came along.  His F is uNPD, IMO, through my observations of him in my 20+ year marriage to his son.  MIL is an enabler and FIL really used her as labourer in their 60+ year marriage.  She toiled to the bone for her H to give him the extra money for his hobbies and pastimes without complaint:  hunting and fishing gear, golf club memberships, etc. She went to her grave thinking her H adored her.

FIL preferred his younger son over H. FIL and his younger son did everything from watching sports to hunting and fishing together.  All of H's adult life were an attempt to get favor and recognition that he did not as a child.  The irony is that BIL is now an alcoholic and drug addict and barely works enough to cover his bills.  

When MIL died, H went out and got a huge rose tattooed on his chest with he word, "Mom" on it.  

Apart from this, my H is seriously enmeshed with his adult children, especially his daughters.  H's X W cheated on him while the children were all still in nappies, then divorced him to marry her lover.  (The lover was also married and had young children.)  As a result, guilt is a huge factor in H's RS with his children.  They are all in some spectrum of PD.  H's first marriage to his first W was the prefect NPD/BPD marriage.  

So, yes, I would say male BPDs have mommy issues, for certain.    

My H was rejected by his F, and H felt sorry for his mother (and therefore closer to her) who was not cherished the way a W should be by her H.   I know that H is really embarrassed by his F's behavior on many occasions and suspects there is a problem, but won't dig any deeper on this.

[Notwendy]

That example of the man in the Psychology Today article sounds a lot like my H, except that he wasn't second best. He was the  Golden Child to his mother, but his father was very verbally critical. He never felt "good enough" for his father. His father did love him and was a good man, but had issues from his own FOO. I wonder if it isn't "second best" that leads to this in a child, but "growing up not feeling good enough no matter what you achieve".

The idea that this could be BPD didn't occur to me as the main example I had of BPD was my low functioning mother. She is very intelligent, but her BPD issues are severe. I think her FOO is condescending to her, so perhaps she didn't feel good enough either.

I was the scapegoat in my family so perhaps this is different from "second best".  I don't have BPD but was raised with co-dependent tendencies.

I think there must also be genetics and resiliency factors, that also determines if someone will become BPD.

[Cat Familiar]

His needs - no matter how disguised or intelligently expressed - seem to come down to an unconscious but overwhelming longing for the unconditional love of a mother.

It's like pwBPD have missed a certain developmental step that leads to a sense of security in oneself and they try to find that feeling through attachment to other people, or though addictive behavior to alcohol, drugs, gambling, shopping, etc.  

The fear of abandonment seems to be the kind of distress a baby experiences when its mother cannot be found. The deep desire for 'love' and sex seems to be a desire for physical comfort, affirmation, bonding, cuddling, warmth and all that a baby receives from a good mother - including food.

Because they have not developed the ability to self-soothe, they seek comfort externally from others.

A BPD is completely aware of his own needs (as a baby) and feels a sense of grievance if they are not immediately met in full, but has little to NO awareness of the cost to others.

Because they are so focused upon their own needs but unable to self-soothe, they have little understanding of how their behavior affects others. And ultimately this self-centeredness drives away people and validates their feeling that "nobody likes me."  

[New+Scared]

This to me actually describes either a co-dependent mother or a mother who didn't provide unconditional love. Unconditional love is loving the child - the core of the child, for who she or he is. It doesn't mean giving everything without having any expectations.

Hi, what you said expanded on the idea and I can understand what you're saying. YES.

I just wanted to add that my post was comparing the need to that of a tiny baby in the early stages, rather than a toddler or growing child. Once past the dependent baby stage, the needs are different, and the interaction of the parents will be different too.

[Notwendy]

Yes, and pwBPD are delayed in their ability to regulate their emotions and can act like a toddler. Temper tantrums are developmentally normal for a toddler and with appropriate parenting - the toddler can grow to manage their own emotions.

To get to the next stage- the baby/toddler/child needs to have their needs met before they can do this. As you can imagine- both a neglectful parent or an over indulgent parent can stunt the growth. A tiny baby needs to have his needs met, and a toddler needs to learn to manage frustration when he doesn't get something like a cookie for dinner.

A co-dependent parent would not be able to manage their own discomfort with an angry toddler and would give them the cookie to soothe them. This is exactly what we (as partners ) do with a pwBPD when we walk on eggshells and give in to demands as a way of keeping them from dysregulating. They need to learn to manage their own feelings and when we manage them for them, they don't learn.

I think this is what is meant when they say the non has to be the emotional leader in the relationship. If one person is acting like a toddler, someone needs to be able to keep their cool and allow the toddler to learn to self regulate if it is possible.

[AskingWhy]

In theory, pwBPD are like infants who lack object constancy and have only two emotions:  contentment and rage.  Anyone who knows small babies knows this.  They are either nursing, smiling and happy, or raging for food or a diaper change.

Black and white behaviour in its most basic form.

[BasementDweller]

I could go on. But this is probably enough. Is there truth in what I've said?

I think there is a significant amount of truth to this - especially if the BPD man had an abusive mother.

My ex partner did. She was physically and psychologically abusive to her children, and abandoned them (sending them to live with a distant relative for 2 years in another country) when my ex was only 1.5 years old. He remembers being abandoned and asking her why, only to never get an answer. He has very little contact with his mother now, and has "disowned" her.

When I was painted white, he was very clingy and needy about wanting to be held, touched and soothed. When I was painted black, I was a "horrible abusive person that was exactly like his mother." (I am absolutely NOTHING like his mother.) Once when he was raging at me I told him that I loved him, and he shot back with "My mother told me that too, then she would hit me!" He never was able to trust me, or that my love for him was genuine. Most of the time, he was either needing to be soothed and held, or he was accusing me of being a monster like his mother. He never was able to escape from the trauma that his upbringing caused. My heart aches for him, it truly does. No amount of love from me could make him happy or content.

[SweetCharlotte]

At bottom, we all want that unconditional and life-giving love that only a mother can give (whether we actually received this in a healthy way or not). We learn to accept whatever form of it we can find in each relationship. The problem with BPD is the instability, which causes the goal, the perception/assessment, and the reaction to change radically and without warning.

As it happens, many with BPD had problematic relationships with their mothers, so it is a factor in their instability. My uBPDh had an abusive mother, which gives him immense trust and vulnerability issues. Each time he feels hurt, he paints me black. Then he becomes as emotionally cruel towards me as she was towards him. What he cannot see or admit is the genetic link—he has inherited his mother's mental illness. Her husband constantly threatened her with commitment to an institution to keep her in line. Her father, in turn, had died in a mental hospital in the 1930s.

My H will never seek help for his illness because he cannot stand to think that he has inherited the psychopathology of his abuser. He has to see himself as a pure victim in order to maintain his identity and function in life, which he does only marginally.

[AskingWhy]

What he cannot see or admit is the genetic link—he has inherited his mother's mental illness. Her husband constantly threatened her with commitment to an institution to keep her in line. Her father, in turn, had died in a mental hospital in the 1930s.

I agree about the genetic influences.  Genes are important, but not destiny.  In some cases, something has to happen in the environment physically to express the gene.  

Emotions affect physiology, such as fear causing adrenaline in an unstable home.  Each child in an unstable family night not react the same way depending on birth order and other factors.  One might be the favoured golden child while another might be the scapegoat.

[JNChell]

Hey there, New+Scared. This is a good topic. Although being gender based, it definitely has it’s place here. I’m a guy. I had a very adverse childhood and I identify with a lot of what is being discussed here. I hope that my input can be helpful.

I’m not a pwBPD, but I have been clinically diagnosed with an anxiety disorder that can present with similar traits to BPD. Both of my parents were very abusive. NPD father, BPD mother. I’m no mental health expert, but I know what I endured.

an unconscious but overwhelming longing for the unconditional love of a mother.

I think that this can most definitely be the case. It’s already been established through the conversation here that boys and their mothers are a very significant bond that needs to be reached for the boy’s development.

I remember the very intense physical feelings of my mother’s nurturing touch when I was very young. It didn’t happen often, so when it did the feeling was highly sensitized. The feelings and “good chills” that went through my body in those moments were captivating and left me wanting more of the same. As I grew, they became less. Understand the confusion between moments of nurture and moments of abuse here.

Scapegoating has also shown up in this thread quite a bit. I was the scapegoat. It’s also a common testimony around here that the golden child often ends up in a pretty bad way. Along with this, it’s been theorized that the scapegoat was chosen because of their strength. It’s only theory, but I like to lean on this assumption. For now, anyway.

Back on point. I can relate to men wBPD that are simply wanting an experience that they didn’t receive as a child. A “corrective outcome” with an abusive mother. While looking at myself, I have acted in childish ways in my romantic relationships without realizing it and wonder if my acts were off putting. Laying my head in their lap and having them rub my head and back. The same strong sensations happen. Maybe it doesn’t simply come down to BPD and the man. Maybe it comes down to the “mother” a bit more. It has also been discussed here and opined that the mother/Son relationship is, in what I’ve deciphered, the most important relationship that a male will experience. IMHO, this is most likely true. We spent a lot of time as one with our mothers in the womb and our first reaction upon birth was to lay on your bosom. The connection is proven.

I’m not trying to disprove the original intent of this thread. I’m simply chiming in to give a first hand perspective of the subject. “Mommy issues” are a real thing. BPD or not.

Men don’t have to have a PD to have these issues, which I know was never insinuated in this thread, but I just think that a little more focus could be placed on unfit mothers in this conversation. The catalyst to the conversation.

[Notwendy]

I see your point JNChell. Perhaps a common thread between nons and pwBPD is family dysfunction. I lacked the kind of love one would have from a mother. I don't think she touched or cuddled me much and I don't associate her touching me with any warm feelings. Sometimes she gives me a cursory hug and it feels creepy to me.

I didn't lean towards BPD but to the caretaking and people pleasing side. I felt I had to work hard at people pleasing at home to get approval from my parents. I think this made me attractive to men who wanted the kind of attention and love a mother would give but could also not return that.

If our parents left an emotional void, I don't think a partner can fill that void. I think I imagined that if I did enough, I would get some of that back, but it seems I also chose someone who couldn't give some of that back because he needed so much of it and so I recreated some of my family situation in relationships.

Self care is key- I think we have to give some of this to ourselves. We aren't able to change how we were parented growing up but I hope we can all learn to be good to ourselves- and others too, but I think some of us tend to overlook being good to ourselves.

[zachira]

I agree with Notwendy that we can't fill the emotional void left by parents that did not know how to love us with a partner. Parents are supposed to have unconditional love for their children. A relationship with a partner is supposed to be a reciprocal relationship where there is a good balance of give and take, and the possibility of ending that relationship if there is no real reciprocity. I too feel challenged in that I sometimes want to make an impaired man who can't love others back into a reparenting project in which I show him the unconditional love he never got in childhood without expecting reasonable reciprocity. There are some men out there who really know how to pair up with women who will be a mother figure and not a wife, just like some women are looking for a daddy figure not a mature relationship with a man.

[Euler2718]

Well, I do want nurturing and love. I don't know what it has to first with my mom. We weren't close, though. I really feel unloved.

I think your hypothesis may apply to females as well.

I'm not BPD but to their plight and symptoms I can sometimes relate (mostly fear if abandonment)

[zachira]

Euler2718
Like you, I do not have BPD, feel unloved by my mom, and have often had terrible fears of abandonment. You are right, that women can be searching for a partner to give them the unconditional love they never got from their parents. Most of what is attributed to one sex, usually applies to the opposite sex as well; it just looks different because of the sex of the person involved. Women are more commonly diagnosed with mental health disorders. Men are often given lighter diagnosis that are more in-line with the image men are supposed to project. So men will be given a diagnosis of anger problems, or drug abuse, when they in effect have BPD. BPD is a diagnosis that is often reserved for females. I think it is easier to describe a man as being a momma's boy than to say he has BPD. A BPD diagnosis indicates that the person has serious problems with managing their emotions, and men are taught that they are supposed to be strong and in control of most of their emotions. For many men, the main emotion they feel comfortable expressing is anger, which often is masking sadness and unresolved emotional pain.

[Euler2718]

I almost always have perfect emotional control... .meaning i seem to have none. I dont open up except in relationships, and even then I'd prefer not to. It's a way of life, I'm not saying its optimal. Since BPD left I'm dedicated to resurrecting my lost self. I feel EVERYTHING. Mostly painful stuff though. It does make me more interesting to be around though.

[AskingWhy]

I see your point JNChell. Perhaps a common thread between nons and pwBPD is family dysfunction. I lacked the kind of love one would have from a mother. I don't think she touched or cuddled me much and I don't associate her touching me with any warm feelings. Sometimes she gives me a cursory hug and it feels creepy to me.

I didn't lean towards BPD but to the caretaking and people pleasing side. I felt I had to work hard at people pleasing at home to get approval from my parents. I think this made me attractive to men who wanted the kind of attention and love a mother would give but could also not return that.

If our parents left an emotional void, I don't think a partner can fill that void. I think I imagined that if I did enough, I would get some of that back, but it seems I also chose someone who couldn't give some of that back because he needed so much of it and so I recreated some of my family situation in relationships.

Self care is key- I think we have to give some of this to ourselves. We aren't able to change how we were parented growing up but I hope we can all learn to be good to ourselves- and others too, but I think some of us tend to overlook being good to ourselves.

I also have issues with C-PTSD likely due to my FOO dysfunction.  My own M had fits of rage (going hot and cold, one day praising me and one day beating me) and my F was an enabler. 

It's no surprise my H is uBPD/uNPD because I had no healthy point of reference for a relationship. 

[JNChell]

Hi Notwendy.

Perhaps a common thread between nons and pwBPD is family dysfunction.

This support group and it’s members have most definitely validated this and I’m sorry for everyone that was neglected and abused as a child. So many of us here, I’d wager on a large majority, had adverse childhoods. I’m not sure if it was more painful as a child because it was the norm, or if those feelings are worse now with the full awareness of what happened to us, how it has at times dictated our lives and trying to process and grieve it all.

I didn't lean towards BPD but to the caretaking and people pleasing side.

This is my sister. She was the golden child. She turned out very well considering the pedestal that she was forced upon for so long. She’s brilliant, is a psychology professor and practices part time. Sorry, I’m very proud of her and plug her when I get the chance. However, she seems similar to you and many others here in the way that her caretaker role has gotten her into a couple of dysfunctional relationships that she was unable to leave and was ultimately left when she had given all she had. She’s done her healing and is in a good place now.

I couldn’t agree more with you and others here that a partner can’t fill an emotional void that was created by our parents. It’s not fair to anyone involved. It’s not sustainable. At least not in a healthy manner. I wonder if that void can ever really be filled by doing the work, or if it is learned to be accepted by doing the work, healing that wound and moving on with life. Thoughts?

As an adult, I’ve never really liked being taken care of by a SO. I prefer to do things like my own laundry, I’m always up for cooking and doing my share of household chores. The things that I’ve identified about myself in this aspect are the nurturing side of things. Reassurance and warmth. Like others have said here, I also have abandonment fears and when they’re triggered the reassurance thing can really kick in. I’m processing all of this now. Here and in therapy and it’s slowly helping me to understand who I am, why and that as a child I wasn’t responsible for this stuff. I am now because I’m an adult, and for the most part I have control over my outcomes and what I decide is in my best interest to allow to be in my bubble.

Self care is key

Yes, yes and yes. I’m having a hard time with making this a routine and sticking with it, but I’m aware that it’s vital to lasting recovery. I’ll get there.

I’ve taken up enough of this thread and have went in more of a PSI direction so I think I should cut it off here. The insight and shared experiences here are interesting and helpful.