pwBPD as chameleons

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have ceased to care about H and his children.  

So... am I correct to assume this will make it easier for you to alter your relationship with them?

What do you expect the first step will look like?

FF

[formflier]

I have ceased to care about H and his children.  

So... am I correct to assume this will make it easier for you to alter your relationship with them?

What do you expect the first step will look like?

FF

[Notwendy]

Let's just say again, I have ceased to care about H and his children.  I have been hurt too many times and have developed a very thick skin.  I have my own interests and set of friends, so H does not dictate my world.  It was not always that way.  When H threatened divorce, I would be devastated and crushed for days, unable to work or even think straight.  Now, I take it with a grain of salt. My self esteem had returned after hard work and looking into myself.  If he files for divorce, I am ready.  I know I am strong and can survive without him.  It's a quite sense of strength I now have.


In several ways, I think this is a good step. For some of us ( I know myself) we tend to confuse caring with caretaking- doing too much for others- stepping over that boundary- and we end up feeling resentful. Also, I think it is important to have our own friends, interests, and focus whether we are in a caring relationship or not. Many of us tended to give up too much of ourselves for the relationship and this leads to resentment.

I hope you can make the distinction between caring and caretaking. Helping any adult too much leads to resentment. You are correct that his adult children are responsible for their own decisions. Not your monkeys, not your zoo- as you said.  I know their relationship to your H brings this into your world, but it isn't your responsibility to help or fix them.  

You are correct that your H is responsible for his own decisions. If he wants to divorce you- then he would have to take that step. It is good to not be in the position to reinforce his threats by begging and fixing.

I think it would help to work on letting go of resentment- for your own sake. You are taking steps to do this- caretaking leads to resentment. Once the resentment gets better- I think you will see you are able to care, but not caretake. I'm not talking about love or passion- I don't know if you will or will not feel that, but you can feel you care- in a universal sense and this comes when we get a handle on our resentments and not act on fears. Caring means not caretaking- it isn't good for you or the other person. Don't leave yourself out of that caring too. Caring means you allow someone to be responsible for their own decisions as that is in their best interest- caretaking is not in someone's best interest- or yours. To get to this place- we need to start with self care and stop caretaking. It seems you are taking steps towards that.

[AskingWhy]

FF and Wendy, I have started to move forward in many directions, and not just in the way I handle H.  I really don't have a relationship with H's children as they now ignore me.  That makes things easier.

I am a naturally caring empath, and really want to help people in need and am often in a position to help.  Too often this ends up backfiring and I get turned into the villain.

After getting metaphorically slapped in the face too many times, I step back.  H's children can be in a world of hurt, and I can see a crisis coming, but I not longer try to head that crisis off by getting involved.  They are H's children, and his problem.  One of his children made a suicide attempt, and I let H handle it.  Ditto for one getting a DUI and yet another arrested for petty theft.  Each time H gets frantic as he loves his children so much--more than me.  If I get in a fix (need a trip to the doctor, flat tire on the roadway), H begrudgingly helps me, usually with the normal cursing and name-calling, how he hates me, and how he needs to come to my aid so often.  The irony is that he is almost always helping his children: numerous car accidents, drunk and needs a ride home, phone call waking H and me from sleep because D got dumped by a boyfriend, etc.

I am slowly releasing my resentment the less I become involved.  It's hard.  Again, I am an empath and like to help people.  His son can wind up in jail or in the emergency room for an overdose, and it's not my place to make suggestions.  My caring only comes back to bite me.  So--no more.

One of the Ds went back to smoking and drugs, and S just lost his job--again--with drugs and cursing out his boss.  "Not my monkeys" has become my mantra.  All of his children are in some sort of BPD or NPD spectrum--I can see that--but it's not my place to suggest they get help.   H will not even admit he has a problem; it's always my fault when something goes wrong.  H's children have hurt me so badly in all of the years I was married to their father (from childhood to adulthood) that I think it's just best I stay in the background as an observer now.

[Notwendy]

Asking Why-

It is really hard for a parent to not be involved with a troubled child. This is not to say your H is dealing with this in an emotionally healthy way, or to excuse his behavior but to make the point that he is going to have strong feelings for his children.

Each time you make the comparison- "he loves them more than he loves me" you are going to feel resentment. Even if he did love them more, the kind of love for a child isn't the same as a love for a spouse. The more you get into this triangle as a "victim" of him or his children, the more drama in your life. True or not, this perspective isn't going to lead to you feeling happy.

You have mentioned you have a right to feel resentment. Yes, you do, you have every right to feel resentment. The problem with resentment is that it often feels worse for the person feeling it than the other person who may be the cause. You would do yourself a favor to just let this perspective go if you can.

Often dysfunctional people come from dysfunctional families and these family patterns are intergenerational. Your H's children sound like a handful of dysfunction. You say they have hurt you - from childhood on up. I would argue that they didn't just set out to hurt you- but that this is part of the dysfunction of their family and you married into this- and possibly participated in it. When you take on the victim perspective, it becomes part of the drama ( Karpman ) triangle. If you are a helper, you tend to take on rescuer position. With respect to the children, your H takes rescuer position. If you come on to this from victim perspective " you love them more than me" it increases the drama.

This pattern with his children is bigger than you. It existed before he met you and it is a part of who he is. Unless he wants to get into a lot of therapy to understand and change this, it is unlikely to change. It isn't about who he loves more, it is a pattern that drives him to take on rescuer role with them. He doesn't take rescuer role with you. If you need help such as a flat tire, he isn't going to respond to you the same way. Your role is helper/rescuer too, and changing roles is disruptive to the pattern.

Basically all of the roles are dysfunctional. It takes a lot of practice to not interact on the triangle. It doesn't mean breaking the relationships but if you can emotionally break out of the pattern, then the behaviors won't impact you emotionally. You won't feel hurt if you understand the pattern and don't take it personally.

I think it would help you if you could emotionally get off the triangle with your H and his children. This doesn't mean leaving or even changing who you are. It is changing the perspective that you are on some level competing with them. "He loves them more". "They have hurt me". "its always my fault when something goes wrong".

With the triangle, all roles lead to victim. Someone can jump in as rescuer and end up feeling hurt or attacked. Then if they react- they become the persecutor and then people get upset with them. This is why when you "help", "helping comes back to bite me".

Yes, your H's children are adults. You do not need to step in as rescuer to them. Yet from your posts it seems you are feeling in victim position, when your H steps in to rescue them. He's going to do what he does and it may have more to do about him than any lack of feelings for you or feelings for you. Not my monkeys also means not my triangle.

[AskingWhy]

Yes, your H's children are adults. You do not need to step in as rescuer to them. Yet from your posts it seems you are feeling in victim position, when your H steps in to rescue them. He's going to do what he does and it may have more to do about him than any lack of feelings for you or feelings for you. Not my monkeys also means not my triangle.

Notwendy,  I have learned to accept he cannot change.  After his children use and abuse him, he still forgive and comes back for more.

I attribute this special form of masochism due to the guilt he carries about his first wife leaving for another man and taking the children with her.  He was too much in shock from being served divorce papers so the divorce went uncontested--the X got everything she wanted and then some.

I won't lift a finger about his children now. I see the brick wall they are headed toward thanks to their poor life choices.  They are really mean young people, and I don't say anything to H about them any more.  They have learned to manipulate H they way their mother did after the divorce.

[Cat Familiar]

AskingWhy,
How are things in your world today?

Cat

[wendydarling]

I am locking this thread because it has reached its length limit. The post originator is welcomed to open a continuation thread on this topic.  Have a great day.