First post on this board, Elder Care bringing messed up family dynamics to head

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hi,

Family dynamics come to a head with elder care, first post on this board

Long story short want to learn how to interact with family with out making things worse for everyone! Need to start taking a more active role, been pretty low contact as it was extremely destabilizing to me to interact.  Will start reading the articles and tools on here.  Did read quit walking on eggshells and children of self absorbed. 

Hello, so glad to find you all.  I asked about a board for Narississm and found out we can use this one My mom who died six years ago had borderline personality disorder and my dad narcissism. 

A few months ago a friend of my dad (82) and the families told me he had given away a substantial amount of money to an organization, I told my sister, she told my brother, they tried to intervene and all hell broke loose! Turns out my mom had foreseen this when she died six years ago told my brother to look out for my sister and her family, my two girls, watch my dad (run the trust and have him come live with my brother or my sister). I am assuming she said block me from anything as she hated me and I had been disrespectful and irresponsible when younger (traits of borderline myself, in recovery for twenty years with dbt  So my sister and brother came and tried to take some control with my dad, going to finical advisor, ect. I had just moved back to town, my dad and I had always been close, and he started telling me from his perspective what happened. Felt controlled, ect, wanted to take my sister off as medical power of attorney and put me on.  This is where warning bells and my anxiety stated to escalate.  About four years ago I went through major grief as the family sent me papers from a lawyer that listed my brother as head of a trust, power of attorney and my sister as patient advocate. No spot for me:(.  I sort of understood I have had a lot of problems around the family, and dissociation is still something I watch for.    Anyway I let go of it best I could as I felt it was a natural consequence of my behavior in the past.  So my dad wanting to switch it brought it all back . 

Then I started to read about narcissism again and pitting the children against each other, my brother and sister are still hurt from my bad behavior as a child and do not understand what I have been doing in adulthood.  They try and include my grown daughters in their life, which my daughters have loved.  My mom assigned them this role.

So my dad kept trying to draw me in saying he didn't trust my brother and sister, wasn't going to live with them (this is a great example of the disfunction, my mom told my brother and sister to have my dad live with them when he was too old to care for himself, brother and sister were planning on it and now extremely hurt and angry, problem is no one knew this plan except my brother, sister, dead mom!) to a counselor and wanted to make a stipulation that my brother needs to get treatment for his drinking to over see the trust.  Although I think was unfair to leave me out originally , I think it is equally unfair at this point to use me to undo my brother and sister so I told my dad I could not talk about this anymore, I was not taking my sisters position from her and he should see a lawyer if he has questions.  My brother and sister were doing sneaky things, having him see two doctors ( I am sure hoping he is unfit to run things)

So I am at a loss on how to proceed, my kids love my brother and sister although they are now realizing they are not perfect and I may not be as messed up as the family potrays,  my dad wants contact but then I feel in the middle of sister and brother but if I don't then my daughters need to fill that role, and spending time with my dad gets all twisted into what he needs and I don't totally trust myself to not feed into his disorder because I am still hurt with my exile from my mother, sister, and brother. And all this has brought up for me memories of the past I am dealing with.

I just moved back to town three months ago after enjoying peace and stability on my own for the last five years.  I want to assume responsibility that is mine, I do not want my daughters to have to fill in, which we, my mom, dad, sister, brother and I have all placed them in this position, take me out and insert them:(. Not healthy and my older daughter was showing the strain, wisely addressed it and stated not in so many words, she does not want the role that should be mine, no parentification! Love that girl

Anyway enough for now, mostly needed to get myself started on this path to healing. Thank you all for being here.

Start a refresher dbt in January looking for a counslor.

[DharmaGate]

Hi,

Family dynamics come to a head with elder care, first post on this board

Long story short want to learn how to interact with family with out making things worse for everyone! Need to start taking a more active role, been pretty low contact as it was extremely destabilizing to me to interact.  Will start reading the articles and tools on here.  Did read quit walking on eggshells and children of self absorbed. 

Hello, so glad to find you all.  I asked about a board for Narississm and found out we can use this one My mom who died six years ago had borderline personality disorder and my dad narcissism. 

A few months ago a friend of my dad (82) and the families told me he had given away a substantial amount of money to an organization, I told my sister, she told my brother, they tried to intervene and all hell broke loose! Turns out my mom had foreseen this when she died six years ago told my brother to look out for my sister and her family, my two girls, watch my dad (run the trust and have him come live with my brother or my sister). I am assuming she said block me from anything as she hated me and I had been disrespectful and irresponsible when younger (traits of borderline myself, in recovery for twenty years with dbt  So my sister and brother came and tried to take some control with my dad, going to finical advisor, ect. I had just moved back to town, my dad and I had always been close, and he started telling me from his perspective what happened. Felt controlled, ect, wanted to take my sister off as medical power of attorney and put me on.  This is where warning bells and my anxiety stated to escalate.  About four years ago I went through major grief as the family sent me papers from a lawyer that listed my brother as head of a trust, power of attorney and my sister as patient advocate. No spot for me:(.  I sort of understood I have had a lot of problems around the family, and dissociation is still something I watch for.    Anyway I let go of it best I could as I felt it was a natural consequence of my behavior in the past.  So my dad wanting to switch it brought it all back . 

Then I started to read about narcissism again and pitting the children against each other, my brother and sister are still hurt from my bad behavior as a child and do not understand what I have been doing in adulthood.  They try and include my grown daughters in their life, which my daughters have loved.  My mom assigned them this role.

So my dad kept trying to draw me in saying he didn't trust my brother and sister, wasn't going to live with them (this is a great example of the disfunction, my mom told my brother and sister to have my dad live with them when he was too old to care for himself, brother and sister were planning on it and now extremely hurt and angry, problem is no one knew this plan except my brother, sister, dead mom!) to a counselor and wanted to make a stipulation that my brother needs to get treatment for his drinking to over see the trust.  Although I think was unfair to leave me out originally , I think it is equally unfair at this point to use me to undo my brother and sister so I told my dad I could not talk about this anymore, I was not taking my sisters position from her and he should see a lawyer if he has questions.  My brother and sister were doing sneaky things, having him see two doctors ( I am sure hoping he is unfit to run things)

So I am at a loss on how to proceed, my kids love my brother and sister although they are now realizing they are not perfect and I may not be as messed up as the family potrays,  my dad wants contact but then I feel in the middle of sister and brother but if I don't then my daughters need to fill that role, and spending time with my dad gets all twisted into what he needs and I don't totally trust myself to not feed into his disorder because I am still hurt with my exile from my mother, sister, and brother. And all this has brought up for me memories of the past I am dealing with.

I just moved back to town three months ago after enjoying peace and stability on my own for the last five years.  I want to assume responsibility that is mine, I do not want my daughters to have to fill in, which we, my mom, dad, sister, brother and I have all placed them in this position, take me out and insert them:(. Not healthy and my older daughter was showing the strain, wisely addressed it and stated not in so many words, she does not want the role that should be mine, no parentification! Love that girl

Anyway enough for now, mostly needed to get myself started on this path to healing. Thank you all for being here.

Start a refresher dbt in January looking for a counslor.

[Harri]

Hi DharmaGate and welcome to the PSI board!

I think it is equally unfair at this point to use me to undo my brother and sister so I told my dad I could not talk about this anymore, I was not taking my sisters position from her and he should see a lawyer if he has questions.

I think it is good that you are removing yourself from this situation.  Advising your dad to see a lawyer is wise as well.  If he is still capable of making his own decisions then he should do so even if they may not seem like the best. 

Situations like this are so difficult especially when everyone is pulling in different directions.  You and your daughter are smart to stay out of things.  How old are your kids?  They can take actions to stay our of the drama on their own and it sounds like your daughter has.  There is no rule that if you stay out she has to take you place though.  If you all refuse to play into this, it can work.  We have an article that can help with this:  Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

The drama triangle article is one we refer to a lot around here.  It is a matter of staying out of drama, knowing what is yours to take care of what is belongs to your family member to take care of.  Staying in the center of the triangle is a bit of an art but once you get it, it is quite powerful.  It can also help you in your other relationships including with your daughter.   

I hope it helps.  Let me know what you think of it. 

Agai, I am glad you reached out here.

[zachira]

You are on your way on the path to healing. It is so hard when you have such challenging family dynamics, and you do not want to be over involved or overwhelmed by the constant upheavals. I have similar problems with my family, and find that going low contact, and observing and processing my feelings on a daily basis are the keys to achieving the peace and courage to go on. There are different kinds of low contact. For me, email, and mailing cards and presents work best. Being alone with family members, whether in person or on the phone, brings out the worst in them, as there are no other witnesses to their behavior. If I have to be around them, I bring someone who they want to look good in front of. What kind of low contact do you think would work best for you? Every day, I sit quietly with my feelings for 30-60 minutes, as no feeling lasts too long if it is felt in a peaceful way. As time has passed, this practice has brought me lots of peace and love, because I feel my joy more as time passes and am less overwhelmed by the ongoing family toxic dynamics.
One of the hardest things to deal with is, as you get better at dealing with your family members, and are less negatively affected by how they treat you and others, is they will likely up their mean behaviors as a way to reel you back into your old roles.
That is a very good idea to look for a counselor/therapist. So much of what is happening with your family is difficult for others to understand, and having someone to talk with on a regular basis that understands and can help you, can be a real life saver, during the most difficult times, and can make it easier and easier to deal with the family crises as they come up.
Keep us posted on how you are doing. There is no such thing as writing too much or posting too often. Many members have posted here for years as they have worked through many difficult painful situations with family members. We are here to listen when things are going well, and to celebrate your successes. As time goes on, you will indeed feel better, and you will be less affected by your family's behaviors. It does take time and effort. Do read the stories of other members here, as so many have been in situations similar to yours and are now feeling so much happier and capable of dealing with whatever comes their way in life.

[DharmaGate]

Zachira, you know what you are talking about! thank you for responding "don't want to be over involved or overwhelmed" amen! If it was not for my daughters I'd probably stay pretty much no contact.  You asked about what kind of low contact could work for me.  I am wondering that too.  For now I have been telling my dad that I can not meet his needs, I have my own to address right now.  Will need to work on this.

Thank you for bringing up sitting quietly for a bit each day and watching feelings come and go.  I did it right after I read what you wrote will continue to.  Will up my search for counslor.  How do you quote on here? Is it a copy and paste thing? Thanks again

Harri, My daughters are 29 and 35 and yes you are so right they are wise and already pulling out, setting limits, there does not need to be a representative for this messed up position! Thanks for reality check.

Karpman Drama Triangle, I love it! I actually told my dad two months ago, this was the reason I was not comfortable participating in the last go around this is exactly the problem we are having, thank u!
Triangulated conversation and dynamics are exactly why I feel frozen to make any move right now.  anything i do or say has the potential to domino over to the rest of the family, the article calls them counter moves and I am afraid of the counter moves of others right now!  We have always operated this way and it has always made me feel crazy. 

We are going round and round with these roles trading spots of victim, persecutor and rescuer, shame spiral.  Right now I am trying not to rescue my dad, I do not want to stabilize this crazy situation or validate it.  That is lending me to feel like a victim (my role growing up) overwhelmed, learned helplessness, panic. Then I feel like moving to persecutor and yelling at my dad, "this is exactly how we grew up, unpredictable never knowing what decision you were going to make next, that was going to affect the rest of us, having to watch your mood, behaviors to see what we were going to endure next.  And on top of it you and mom pull in a social audience now we have to perform for them too."  But if I say all that then he will do a move that I will end up feeling guilty about and then enable him some more, till I get fed up with that and return to my victim role get away.

So instead I need to learn to be assertive.  I need time to work out what I want in this situation and it very complicated on some levels and on another level it is pretty simple.  I am unregulated right now and need time and space to figure things out.  I am not willing to risk "just coffee" because I could say something unskillful that I will regret and words have consequences. 

"Compassion, sensitivity, and responsibility with a solution focus " the middle of the trangle. this is where I have been at for years and unless I can get back to that stance with family I do not want to dance:(.  I don't want to be in a pressure cooker the overreact and feel bad.

"Do not struggle with your opponent or yield to them... .Counter with awareness and enlightenment skills." Dbt skills

So I need to transfer the skills I do, and that will keep me out of the victim role. In awhile I can tell my dad what I need and want and not yell and blame, presecute.  I am already stopping the enabling and probably why I am feeling confused, this is new.  I have been my dads side kick, helping him all our lives and in return he has helped and enabled me.  It was us against my mom, brother and sister. He was setting me up to be the front guy for this fall out with my brother but I saw it and got out of the way this time.  This is sad:(

The good news is I have the skills I just need to learn to apply them with other people and especially family.

Thanks a ton!