Long term marriage with six kids about to end. Is this BPD?

[Prcouch]

Hello,  my wife and I were married in 2001 almost 18 years ago.  Our relationship was fast paced while dating.  Less than a year until she got pregnant.  She unfortunately miss-carried after 14 weeks.  

We still decided to get married quickly through the justice of peace a few months later.  After we were married. The relationship turned rocky and i admit it would get physical which i am ashamed of.  I never hit her.  She would just fly off the wall if i disagreed with her on most anything.  For example, i would be trying to go to sleep and she would want to talk.  If i told her i cant because i had to wake up at 4am, she would flip the lights on.  I would get up and turn them back off and she would turn them back on after i got back in bed.  After a few more times of that i would stay in the bed with the lights on.  She would then tear the covers off me.  I would then start yelling at her and we would be pushing each other around.

By 2003 after being in trouble with the police twice over this kind of stuff.  I decided to never touch her again during an argument.  We still experience extreme arguements over all kinds of things.  Generally if i disagreed with her she would get mad at me.  It would escalate untill we were yelling at each other with no resolve until one of us gave up and left.  She wouldnt talk to me for days or weeks until i started apologizing and begging her to talk.  I would make promises to change myself but we would always end up in the same spot.  We would both say nasty things to each other.

I dont have many boundries but eventually set one.  If i was getting to mad i told her that i needed a break.  I promised to come back to her and try to finish the conversation.  When i did this she would either sit there crying and accuse me of leaving and intentionally trying to hurt her this way or she would follow me around the house continuing the arguement and berating me.  Arguements dont get solved unless we do things her way.  If i ask to compromise she will ask for my idea and then tell me it wont work for her.  We cant do a budget together because it turns into an arguement every time.  I refuse now to do one with her.  I offer to handle the money but she always tells me im not doing a good job and she takes it back over.

We have six kids and i feel like i am the only disiplinarian of the home.  I feel like im always spanking them for disrespecting her when she is upset with them.

Once we had an arguement during a freezing rain storm and she decided she was going to leave with my daughter.  I told her it wasnt safe to leave but she did anyways.  2 miles down the road she slid down an embankment and hit a tree.  She called me mad that i needed to come pick them up.  I did get mad at her because she put my daughter at risk.  She then decided to leave for a week because i got mad at her.  After begging and pleading for another chance she came back after this.

After another arguement 5 years ago.  She called our current church pastor because i locked myself in a closet.  He told me i should find a place to stay.  A week later she asked for the address i was at and filed a protective order on me.  I didnt touch her at all. This one allowed communication but no physical contact.  I begged her in emails and text messages to give me another chance and she did.

Many of the same arguements.  5 years down the road.  She decided to take a couple of our kids floating down the river at 730pm.  I didnt think it was a good idea because it was going to get dark.  I didnt say anything because she always accuses me of being controlling if i tell her i think she is making a bad decision. At 10pm i still didnt hear from them.  I called her no answer.  Called her mom and she told me they called her to call the fire department to come find them because they were stuck and lost.

4 months ago she was talking to me on the way from church.  She told me she didnt think the pastor was giving her enough of his time simce she was comcerned about our relationship.  I tried to tell her that sometimes i think peoples schedules are so packed that they cant and maybe thats why he couldnt right then.  She told me she hated when i say things like that.  I told her i hate talking to her.  We have been seperated since in the same house.

She started accusing me of being a narcassist.  It scared me so i put myself into therapy.  The first therapist told me right away that im not a narcassist.  I ended up finding a new therapist because i wanted a christian one.  She demanded to be in my firat session with him.  She explained all the things that she feels i do.  While i dont deny having some narcassistic traits i dont feel i deserve anymore than anyone else.  I do wish that my wife would be proud of me but with the constant ups and down of her loving me then hating me its been hard to feel that way. My second session my therapist told me i am not a narcassist.  Still worried about it.  I went to two more doctors and a psychologist all saying i dont have it.  Psycologist diagnosed me with major depressive disorder.

She has been asking me for a separation agreement this whole time.  She wants to move out and wants me to keep two kids and her four.  She started therapy for herself telling her therapist she has PTSD

2 months ago she kicked my 12 yo daughter out. Locked the door and went and sat down.  She sent me a text message telling me she did it because she said some mean things to my son.  I was at work and came home.  My daughter was gone.  I looked and looked but couldnt find her.  I went inside and my wife was still sittimg there.  I asked if she was going to help look for her.  She said "shes your daughter you find her".  I got mad and told her that i didnt want to call the police because i was afraid they would charge her with something.  She didnt care and now accuses me of threatening to call them.  I called my pastor and he came to help.  20min later he found her.  She had walked across a 4 lane road a mile away to two stores.  This scared the crap out of me but she claims she did nothing wrong.  Of course i apologize for over reacting.

Im on zoloft now due to the anxiety and stress of depression and the current situation made it to much.

My wife doesnt seem to be interested in our marriage anymore.  Something has always seemed wrong to me about her.  I just assumed it was due to me and the physical time of our marriage.  We have gone to marriage counseling and she will start refusing to go once we start talking about my prolems with her.  She states that i manipulate the counselor.  She wont take responsibility for anything.  Never has.  Ive asked her in the past to go on her own.  She says that im the problem that she doesnt need help i do.

She accused me of coercive rape when we were dating a few weeks ago.  She also has said that our kids are messed up and its all my fault.  She has been posting to facebook about emotional abuse and narcassism.  I asked her to stop because my family and friends can see it too.  She did reluctantly. 2 weeks ago i broke down and told her she has a victims mentality and that she needs to take responsibility for herself.  I explained how she snaps at me and the kids,  calls me an idiot, stupid, mocks me in a baby voice when we argue.  Crosses my one boundary i have set up consistently about taking a break when arguing.

I have been reading about BPD for about a week and it sounds just like my life with her.  Constant ups and downs.  All or nothing attitude.  Unable to hanfle any type of critisism.  If i tell her something bothers me it turns into an arguement and i get blamed. I will eventually apologize for what i asked for.  I have always blamed myself and felt like it was all me.  I didnt want to involve the kids at all but had to ask them who they felt was the mean one and who they thought controlled the family.  They all say mom is and does.

I asked her to go see a psycologist she refuses.  I have gotten an attorney with the intention of forcing her to see someone for custody.  I told him that i love my wife and i want my marriage to work but if she doesnt take this seriously i would have to fight for the kids.  I cant keep doing the constant ups and downs anymore.  Its to confusing and painfull bearing all the responsibility for everything wrong in 17 years

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[once removed]

hi Prcouch, and

you have a great deal on your plate here. i hope that youll stick around and make yourself at home as part of the family here, because either way, this is going to be a tough road, and you are going to need a strong support system.

can you read this, and tell us what stage you believe your marriage is in: https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

can you also tell us how old all of the kids are, are any of them from other relationships?

[Prcouch]

Thanks for replying.

I believe we are in stage 4.  Our children are all from our marriage.  They are boy 14, girl 13, girl 12, boy 10, boy 8 and girl 6.

Honestly this morning i woke up feeling like i am the one that may have this disorder.  I do have pretty bad fears of abandonment.  Always have.  If my wife would take the kids on vacation somewhere i cant sleep at night.  If my wife doesnt answer the phone when i call to check on her, i will call 6-10 more times.  I get worried when other people dont answer their phone that they are ignoring/mad at me.

I dont handle criticism well at all at home.  My wife always tells me to think before i respond.  It is impossible to do that it seems.  I do lash out sometimes and use to all the time.  afterwards i dont even remember what i said.  She will accuse me of saying things and i can only deny it.

If someone in the public criticizes me it hits me in the gut but am able to absorb it 99% of the time.

When we argue it may be only my perception of her at the time that she hates me.  I dont know.  I can tell you that when we argue i really dont feel like i love her.  I feel like its a personal attack and she hates me.

When i was in my teens i would use my fingernails to scratch my skin sometimes to the point that it would bleed and scab up.  I do occasionally while im at work, take a knife and press it against my skin.  Never hard enough to break skin. 

I would alot of times after an arguement.
 think that my family would be better off without me.  These thoughts have seemed to go away after starting the zoloft.

Theres other things that i have done years ago and dont do anymore but am not comfortable posting.

My wife claims that she doesnt give me the silent treatment that it was me.  Is it possible that i was just feeling shame or felt that she was mad and i was just to scared to talk to her?

I also impulsively buy things for my "hobbies".  Two times it put us in alot of debt.

When i drank alchohol i drank it merely for the feeling it gave me.  Usually only once a week.  I havent had a drink in over 4 months but have started eating alot more.

Is it possible for a BPD individual to also feel like they are walking on eggshells for fear of my wife leaving?

I have always thought something was wrong with my wife.  But i have also always felt strange myself.

Im really scared about my wife leaving me and its causimg me to think about my entire life.

[Harri]

Hi.  I am glad you are reaching out for support here.

Your story has aspects to it that sound similar to many of the stories told by members here.

Regarding your own behaviors and whether or not you haveBPD, no one here can tell you that.  What I can say is that everyone has some of the behaviors seen in pwBPD (people with BPD) including a fear of abandonment.  It does not mean you have it though.  Everyone has some behaviors that are not so healthy.  The first step is awareness and then the second is to take action on changing those behaviors and some of the underlying beliefs.  You can work on that here too as you learn communication skills and other strategies that can help you cope in healthier ways.

We get it here and can support you.

What would you say your greatest need is at this time?

About talking with a lawyer about custody:  have you talked to your wife aobut separation or divorce?  Do you want to get a divorce?  I ask because you said you don't but then mention talking to a lawyer.  Can you elaborate please?

[Prcouch]

I called the lawyer thinking something may be wrong with her due to the stormy relationship we have had.  I asked her to get evaluated and she said no that im the problem.  I knew that i was part of the problem but also didnt think that i was all of the problem.  I just got this idea that if she wouldnt go on her own then i would go all in and go for custody and we would both get evaluated.  I told her what i did and what i would like.  I told her that i did not want a divorce that i wanted things to work but that we both know that things will just keep cycling good and bad if we ever reconciled.
 Two days later here i am waking up today thinking thats its not her at all, its me.  I feel like i made a terrible decision and that i love

I just want my wife back and i dont want to lose my kids.

[once removed]

you will find you are not alone in your revelations about yourself. a lot of us have these things, and other things, going on, and its true, in some ways, we cope in dysfunctional ways that dont help our relationships. it would be a good idea (paramount really) to take it by the horns, and to work with a doctor, a therapist, and to discuss it here and get feedback. as our article on what it takes to be in these relationships states, if you choose this path (are committed to seeing your marriage through), you need to be both strong and balanced, or you will collapse before the relationship does.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

at the same time, if you are in stage four, there are bigger issues. can you identify for us, what the primary problems are right now. from there, we can start to work on rehabilitating the relationship in the long term.

[Prcouch]

Thank you,

Right now my primary concern is that she doesnt trust me.  When i talked to the attorney he told me to open a new bank account and transfer the money in the old one to the new one.  I did.  She thinks that im out to get her now and that wasnt my intention.  She talked to her own attorney now and she is on edge.  I told her this morning by text that i had put the money back into the account.  She asked why.  I told her that i had made a mistake and that i felt like i was the problem not her.  I told her that i didnt want to be her enemy and that i wanted the kids to at least have a good christmas.  I offered to move out myself.  I know she can use the text messages against me but i dont care.  I am seeing a therapist right now and i told her that i wanted to find a new one that could better help me.  She asked me what i thought was wrong with me and i told her that i didnt know but felt like something was.  I dont want to seperate from her but i cant seem to stop making terrible decisions.  There seem to be too many things that she says, that trigger me and i get upset with her because i feel like she is critcizing me.  Seperation might be better so i can get help but she has made no promises of a future relationship.  I feel like its hopeless but dont want to lose her.

[once removed]

so whats going on today? how did she take what you told her?

[Prcouch]

Thanks for checking up on us.

I sent her a text telling her that i wanted to move out.  Get help and then eventually work on our marriage if thats even possible.  She said she agreed with all of what i said.  My problem is that i keep going back and forth between thinking that she has abused me and that ive abused her.  Unfortunately my memory is not that good.  Generally, after we argue i dont even really remember what ive said or what she said. 

She is holding firm to me being the abuser and staying seperates until we both get help.  She will not make any promises about the future.  She says she doesnt know and cant think of it until she takes care of herself.

I am going to start looking for a cheap place to stay today.  I talked to my counselor yesterday and he says i just need to work on my triggers and that he doesnt think anything is wrong with me.  He is a christian counselor so i dont know if he can really tell.  I scheduled an appointment with a psychologist hoping they can tell me more but nobody can see me for two weeks.

Im guess im kind of at a standstill right now.

[once removed]

I scheduled an appointment with a psychologist hoping they can tell me more but nobody can see me for two weeks.

smart move.

My problem is that i keep going back and forth between thinking that she has abused me and that ive abused her. 

in the grand scheme of things, the score probably doesnt matter so much as where you go from here. damage has been done to the marriage. the first step is usually to stop the bleeding - stop things from getting worse. sometimes, like in a stage four situation, thats very hard to do. a therapeutic separation can help give you both the space to do that, if you (at least one of you but ideally both of you) take advantage of it.

right now at least, it sounds like youre both in agreement.

do you know if she has any plans regarding getting help?

[Prcouch]

I agree that keeping score does not help.  Unforunately she is isolating me from my children.  She tells me that i have messed them up and she doesnt trust me with them
  She still wants to split them up but the two that she did want to go with me she now wants to uproot them and send them to her parents house to live.  They live an hour and a half away.  Im not ok with that but she is making unilateral decisions as usual.

Last night i was spending some time in the basement with my 14yo son.  My youngest son was upstairs crying.  Apparently he got hit with a snowball in the face.  My 14 yo told me " moms going to come down here and yell at you ".  Sure enough she did.

She has complete control of me.  I dont want my kids involved with this but they are speaking up for themselves.

Also yesterday when i got home from work all the kids lookeda stressed.  I asked them what was wronf and they told me that my wife had been yelling at them all.  They said because theyvwerent doing what they were told.  I dont think thats right of her to do.  I know that 6 children can be stressfull but she is constantly doing this to them.

I want my marriage to work but i just feel like this is unacceptable behavior.  Im afraid to go to court with her because in the past she would make me write her emails and letters taking responsibility for everything after an arguement claiming thats the only way to get her to stay.  She has saved all of this and is using it to smear me at church and threatening to use it in court if i go there.

[once removed]

She still wants to split them up but the two that she did want to go with me she now wants to uproot them and send them to her parents house to live.  They live an hour and a half away.  Im not ok with that but she is making unilateral decisions as usual.

has she followed through on this?

I want my marriage to work but i just feel like this is unacceptable behavior.  Im afraid to go to court with her because in the past she would make me write her emails and letters taking responsibility for everything after an arguement claiming thats the only way to get her to stay.  She has saved all of this and is using it to smear me at church and threatening to use it in court if i go there.

can you describe the emails and letters? what sorts of things were you taking responsibility for?

[Prcouch]

She has not followed through.

Last night she came to talk to me.  She asked me what my plans were.  I told her that i still intended on leaving but that im not ok with the kids moving to the inlaws.  She says she still hasnt made her mind up about that yet but that she is uncomfortable with me having them.

We both use to yell pretty loudly at each other and even say things to each other that shouldnt be said.  I was most likely being more loud based on being the man.  After the arguements once i calm down i dont even remember what i said.  Just bits and pieces.  Im sure nothing good.

The last time we yelled at each other like this was probably two years ago.  Thats when i told her if i got mad i was going to stop the arguement to cool off with the promise to come back. 

In the past she would tell me to leave the house.  The only way she would talk to me was with emails.   Basically, the emails have me telling her all the things that i have done wrong.  Yelling and rarely name calling.  I was not able to give my version of events in these emails.  If i did she would deny it and refuse to work with me anymore until i eventually take full responsibility.  I have come home from work with the house a mess, the kids running around outside and her taking a nap in the bed.  I have confronted her on this.  Asked her if she is tired to please wait until i get home to lay down.  She takes offense to it and we start arguing.  It escalates and eventually i did accuse her of being a bad mother which was wrong of me.  She didnt talk to me for a few days until i agreed to write a letter stating that she was not a bad mother and admitting to everything that i said that was abusive.  Pretty much all the stuff i admit to are things thay she says that i said but dont remember at all.  I put it in there so we can move forward.  I know im capable of saying mean things sometimes.  It is rare but i dont deny that its possible.  She did try to wait for me to get home to lay down.  I think it lasted a month or two until it went back to the same thing.  I have been afraid to say anything since for fear of an arguement.

[Bnonymous]

Hi Prcouch,

It sounds like you're in an extremely difficult situation. There is help available. We will listen and support you, and help point you in the direction of tools and tips to reduce the conflict in your relationship.

Firstly, I want to commend you for recognising that this is neither "all you" or "all her," and that you both play a part in the dynamic. I know you are finding this truth difficult to hold on to, but you do know it and have said it - hold tight to it - don't let it be taken away from you. Every time you feel yourself oscillating between blaming yourself exclusively and blaming her exclusively, repeat a version of your own words to yourself in your head (or even out loud when you are alone): "I know that I am not all of the problem. I know that I am part of the problem. And I know that I can be part of the solution".

This will help to centre you and free you from the roller-coaster of not knowing what to think or who to "blame" - the "who to blame?" question isn't a helpful way of looking at things anyway. It's more constructive to simply recognise that you are in a high conflict relationship and that you want to work to change it. The reason you need to work at it is not that it's your problem - rather, it's simply because we can't control what other people do, but we can control what we do. Even if it were all her (which you accept it isn't), by changing how you approach these interactions, you can change the dynamic of the relationship.

If you have time, maybe check out a few of the resources here. As Once Removed said, first thing to do is "stop the bleeding" - we have more info on how to do that here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111890.0

The above thread also links to lots of useful resources, all of which are worth checking out when you get chance. But, if you're looking for an entry point, I suggest you read the first post in the above link and also check out this article and short video (linked to below) on ending conflict:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

One thing I would advise is to stop giving in to her demands to write documents admitting full responsibility. Especially don't "confess" to things you don't remember doing and doubt having done. For one thing, such documents could later be used against you in divorce or custody proceedings. For another, it's not good for your mental health or sense of self to "admit" to things which you don't believe you did or to ways of seeing and interpreting events which don't ring true to you.

Keep posting. We're listening and we're here to support you.